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We’ve learned that you drive incredibly economically in an ICE car and catastrophically uneconomically in an EV.
Impressive* you got all that data to make an accusation like that from someone driving a plug in hybrid with a book range of 37miles.
I'd say he's doing not bad.
* But I expect no less.
On the other hand 12p per mile for an ICE with petrol/diesel around £1.80 per litre or £8.20 a gallon means you were getting 68mpg.
Very quick cash packet maths that. I'll have another go. I was getting about 45mpg out of the last Octavia we had, it was petrol 1.5tsi. So maybe more like 16p per mile (I think)
The max range out of a full charge I've seen so far is 31 miles. On colder days it's been <30 and drops very quickly when driving.
So maybe 8p per mile versus 16p.
Long lead times, 25 weeks on the Tesla
Seems a very long wait for the Model Y now it is made in China. Tesla have them available for delivery next month? They just keep flowing through the Trafford Centre: delivery, pickups, delivery, …
Plus, Berlin should be producing them later in the year too.
52 / 12.41 x 100 = 419km rather than 450km Daffy, over 400km is common. It's been on charge over night after some trips along D roads and some shopping around town, I'll go and see what it says.
Edit to add:
It's been chilly but not cold enough to use the heater, cold enough to limit regen though not that that changes much as I drive around the regen that's available. As it gets warmer we'll drop below 12kWh/100.
In fact we already are below 12kWh/100:
However, you've just cost me a km with the energy that went into battery conditionning (see the +1 kW) while I was taking the photos, it's 2°C out.
Currently I have been getting around 145 miles out of mine but I put the heater and heated seats on as I’m not sitting cold for the sake of a little more range. A full charge was costing around £10.50 probably be near £15 from today.
It’s been on charge over night
Do you normally charge to 100%? The advice for our e-Up, to extend battery life, was not to charge to more than 80% unless you need the full range, and in that case set the timers so that it only hits 100% just before you leave.
Annoyingly, the VW "WeConnect" app only allows you to set the charge percentage if you set up a charge cycle, you can't set a default for when you just plug it in.
The Skoda gets you to set a rough departure time, then it charges to 100% ready for that time. Not sure you can alter the max charge, I don't think it suggests doing that anywhere in the manual.
8p Vs 16p a mile is good at face value, but given the extra cost of the car and the cost of a wallbox, it would be a hard sell to a lot of skeptics.
No, It's the second/third time this year I've fully charged, I've got a long trip to do this weekend. Slow charging to 100% gets a few more kms than on a fast charger. After fast charging it drops to 99% after a couple of kms but after a slow charge it'll do up to 10km before dropping to 99%.
Does anyone here have a Polestar? (Apologies, not read through the thread other than occasionally having a look.)
I've just put my order in for a new company car - A Volvo XC40 Recharge 170kW 69kWh
Estimated Delivery Date 12-Jan-2023!!
Looks like i've got bit of time to save up for the wall box!
So 8p per mile as opposed to maybe 12p for the previous full ICE Skoda we had.
How do these figures stack up?
I think you need to get on Octopus Go - are they still doing that?
Free agent - sadly wait times have just gone mad again. Most manufacturers are in the same boat.
Currently I have been getting around 145 miles out of mine but I put the heater and heated seats on as I’m not sitting cold for the sake of a little more range.
MrsGrahamS is a big fan of the scheduled climate settings. She leaves about the same time most mornings, so the car is set to heat itself up for that time. This has two benefits: 1) you get into a nice warm car on a cold morning 2) it does this while it is still plugged in so it doesn't kill your range.
Our eNiro2 (poverty spec) will only do preheat if its plugged in.
I figured out its only really worth doing if its truly baltic, it seems to use the house power and not the battery, at that time of the morning we are not using the off-peak rate so its going to cost more. basically we just bosh on the heater and its toasty in a couple of min, range obviously takes a hit but that not an issue, its very rare we need it all anyway.
it does this while it is still plugged in so it doesn’t kill your range.
Unless you are going on a 150 mile journey that doesn't much matter. If don't pre-heat, it will use energy from the battery to warm things up, but this is energy you could be putting in much more cheaply at 4am. I only do pre-heats if it's going to be icy so the windows are defrosted.
What MrChrispy said.
@geuben, how long for? How has it been? (In general, everything I read or every YouTube review is pretty positive so I’m trawling for negatives 😀)
Since November. I have the dual motor version.
The app is terrible.
The "phone as a key" system seemed so unreliable I haven't bothered to set it up as I don't want to use it and it fail.
The Android Automotive system is a bit void of apps this far.
The reversing light might as well not exist, it illuminates nothing.
The reversing camera is crap at night.
The 360 camera view is a bit blurry and warped (much more so than other cars).
The automatic braking in reverse is sometimes scared of its own shadow. When it activates it's a bit alarming!
The customer service is pretty woeful.
It's not a particularly efficient EV. Around 35kWh/100miles over winter. I did get a 29.8kWh/100mile trip (about 60 miles in length) the other week when it warmed up.
Not as fast to charge as the Ionic5/EV6.
Overall though I really like it, driving it makes up for the above.
Slow charging to 100% gets a few more kms than on a fast charger. After fast charging it drops to 99% after a couple of kms but after a slow charge it’ll do up to 10km before dropping to 99%.
Thanks, I thought that might be the case.
Thanks @geuben 👍
Test drove one on Saturday (morning, so didn’t get to experience the 360deg camera at night - though thought it was fine. Parking was like playing a video game on the screen). I did thoroughly enjoy the drive though. We’ve got the Single Motor Long Range on the way.
Only (major) disappointment is that it won’t come with CarPlay - not due till 2023 - I wonder if that will be installed as an OTA update?
@molgrips Octopus are still allowing the switch to Octopus Go at the moment, or they did for me on 17th March. My rates are fixed @ 7.5p/kW from 00:30 to 04:30 and 30.78p otherwise, and 25.08p standing charge. You have to switch to a standard fixed tariff first (takes 2 weeks from existing supplier), then they will switch you to Go once they've established a connection to your smart meter.
I have to say they've been very good. Customer service is excellent so far. I thought they'd keep me on the fixed, expensive tariff for ages but they connected me to Go the day after I switched. They do a £50 referral offer too (for both parties) if you'd like my referral code 😉
My rates are fixed @ 7.5p/kW from 00:30 to 04:30 and 30.78p otherwise, and 25.08p standing charge
Interesting to know - I'm on 5/19p until June, so I've got a reasonable idea what it's going up to. A 50% increase in fuel costs is bearable when they are so low to begin with!
I'm with shell. No ev tariffs currently available. Rate has just gone from 20p to 28p
I’m with shell. No ev tariffs currently available. Rate has just gone from 20p to 28p
I was with Shell before. I think their standing charge was going up to around 48p per day too?
@deadlydarcy the latest word was Apple car play is due Spring 2022.. so anytime now. There will be some very annoyed people if it's another year. I've no need for it so haven't missed it, I think quite a few have actually decided they don't miss it that much. The Bluetooth integration does most things and the native android stuff is good. The Google maps integration is continually getting better; it tells you your battery % on arrival with pretty good accuracy and says how much you'll have if you do a return trip. It finds you chargers (not all of them though) and tells you their availability and can filter on charger speed and payment options and conditions the battery for arrival when navigating to one.
standing charge was going up to around 48p per day too
Yes, 42p from 24.
Just been looking at octopus go. 4hrs at 7.5p, rest of time at 31p, standing charge 41p I think.
I'll need to look into this as EV arriving v soon and dual fuel tariff ends July (typical).
Looks like you'd really need to max out the Octopus low rate hours to offset their high unit charge (compared to that shell one). I guess making the big ticket items like car, dishwasher and washing machine all timed for those hours is the way to do it.
Does anyone know roughly what % of 'leccy units on the bill having an average mileage EV is?
2,750 units roughly, assuming 10,000 miles per year, 4 miles to the kWh and 90% efficiency during the charge.
I'm not sure if a tariff like Go will work out cheaper for us, or mileage isn't that high and with it being a PHEV, any longer journeys use petrol anyway.
@mulv1976 are your Go rates fixed for a term or will it be subject to the next jump in process in October? I can't find anything definitive on the website. If is fixed for a year from now, it probably will be worth us looking at.
Had my first use of an ionity charger last night, as the 2 grid serves (at 39p / kw) were full. Bit of a shock at the price but needs must. The cost of power from these at 69p a kw takes away the fuel runnning cost benefit (assuming 4 miles / kw), also meaning company mileage payments don’t cover it! Being on octopus go insulated from this most of the time (and makes up for the ‘loss’ on mileage payment)but that can’t last forever.
It was however quick to charge, but I can’t take full advantage of the crazy fast charge rates with my vehicle .
I guess making the big ticket items like car, dishwasher and washing machine all timed for those hours is the way to do it.
all the high risk items giving it laldy as you sleep . no thanks.
I intend to fit a timer to heat my hot water using the off peak leccy. Seems it might work out a similar price but I suspect more efficient in energy terms.
@richardkennerley its fixed until 18th March 2023. I also have the advantage of solar and a home storage battery, so I'm able to charge that for use during the more expensive hours. Its ideal as I don't do that many miles in the EV.
Currently I have been getting around 145 miles out of mine but I put the heater and heated seats on as I’m not sitting cold for the sake of a little more range.
Ok, as a diesel driver and knowing my next car will be an EV, comments like this concern me. I've also watched a fair few YouTube vids too, and getting a sneaky feeling that there are a load of EV drivers NOT using heating and the like.
When I get in my car, I always switch on the heated seat & steering wheel, my AC sits at 21c, have the radio/Spotify on, and phone plugged in. If I've the bike on the towbar rack, I usually have the passenger heated seat on pre-warming my gloves/helmet/jacket. And I live in rural Scotland, on average 5c less than the South East, and most driving is open roads & higher speeds.
Current lifetime average of my car is nearly 50mpg, which for an auto AWD family-sized saloon is I think very good, but what impact will this all have on an EV#'s range?
Heated seats and heater, if used while running, do have a significant effect on range. If you can plug the car in before you leave, however, you can have it heated or cooled to your preference before you set off, and you only have to run the heat at a top-up level.
Do you really need the gloves and helmet pre-heated? If you're at 21C then they should be fine when you get to wherever you're going.
You can wear gloves until the wheel warms up.
You can wear warmer clothes.
All about energy efficiency.
Did a longish journey yesterday. It was warm enough to not need any heating on during daylight , but as the sun went down it started getting chillier. Sticking the heater on 23 degrees , the range dropped by 12 miles.
Turning that off, and putting the heated seat and steering wheel on had no noticeable loss in range. That was good enough to keep me comfy so I could get home without charging ( CBA to stop if I could help it). In fact got home with 40 miles to spare. I only really put the heater on if the windows are starting to fog up to make sure they are clear
When I get in my car, I always switch on the heated seat & steering wheel, my AC sits at 21c, have the radio/Spotify on, and phone plugged in.
Same here, although not in Scotland. How often are you actually driving to the maximum range of your car? I've done it about three times in the year I've had it. None of this is as big of a problem as people think. However...
Heated seats and heater, if used while running, do have a significant effect on range.
This isn't true apparently, according to an experiment posted somewhere earlier on this thread I think..? Heated seats were by far the most effective way of warming the passengers, accounting for about 50W I think. I think that if you are driving at higher speed there's more waste heat which, if you have a car with a heat pump, should be able to be used to heat the cabin.
@willard I think reported 4.5miles/kWh from his e-Niro on his first long trip in Sweden in the winter, correct me if I am wrong.
The cold ambient temperatures will have much more effect on the battery chemistry than the accessories you use, I think. And the fact that the air is denser and you are more likely to encounter standing water on the road or wind than in the summer.
@molgrips Yes, about that, but bear in mind we were at about -10C average for most of that time.
I notice an increase in full charge range from about 360-ish to just over 400km as the weather has got warmer, although we are currently back to -5C with 5cm of snow and another 20 on the way apparently. Yay.
I just checked the energy usage for the last month… 1447km driven, 203 kWh used for an average of 7.11 km/kWh. So, it has gone up a bit, but not much.
That's very decent, especially in a Swedish winter.
A tip we were given is to charge before use, like soon before use. The charging warms the battery slightly, so you do not suffer as much with the cold taking range away.
It's only a small boost, but it works.
I'm hoping the damn snow goes away soon so that we can get back onto summer tyres and start seeing range up nearer the 450km the car will do.
How many times have you got close to needing that range though?
Heated seats and heater, if used while running, do have a significant effect on range.
Heated seats have negligible impact on range. Cabin heating depends on whether you have a heat pump or electric fire kind of heater, but ultimately reduced range in cold temperatures is more down to battery inefficiency in the cold than keeping the car warm.
(think about it - even if the heating draws 2kW the whole time it's on, on a 4 hour drive that's only 8kWh, or about 10-15% of the battery. Pre-heating from the house will make a big difference. On Teslas this warms the battery too.
Has anyone got any experience of the electric mini? We're pleased with the petrol one, just contemplating if it would suit my wife for when we replace it.