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Heated seats and heater, if used while running, do have a significant effect on range. If you can plug the car in before you leave, however, you can have it heated or cooled to your preference before you set off, and you only have to run the heat at a top-up level.
Do you really need the gloves and helmet pre-heated? If you're at 21C then they should be fine when you get to wherever you're going.
You can wear gloves until the wheel warms up.
You can wear warmer clothes.
All about energy efficiency.
Did a longish journey yesterday. It was warm enough to not need any heating on during daylight , but as the sun went down it started getting chillier. Sticking the heater on 23 degrees , the range dropped by 12 miles.
Turning that off, and putting the heated seat and steering wheel on had no noticeable loss in range. That was good enough to keep me comfy so I could get home without charging ( CBA to stop if I could help it). In fact got home with 40 miles to spare. I only really put the heater on if the windows are starting to fog up to make sure they are clear
When I get in my car, I always switch on the heated seat & steering wheel, my AC sits at 21c, have the radio/Spotify on, and phone plugged in.
Same here, although not in Scotland. How often are you actually driving to the maximum range of your car? I've done it about three times in the year I've had it. None of this is as big of a problem as people think. However...
Heated seats and heater, if used while running, do have a significant effect on range.
This isn't true apparently, according to an experiment posted somewhere earlier on this thread I think..? Heated seats were by far the most effective way of warming the passengers, accounting for about 50W I think. I think that if you are driving at higher speed there's more waste heat which, if you have a car with a heat pump, should be able to be used to heat the cabin.
@willard I think reported 4.5miles/kWh from his e-Niro on his first long trip in Sweden in the winter, correct me if I am wrong.
The cold ambient temperatures will have much more effect on the battery chemistry than the accessories you use, I think. And the fact that the air is denser and you are more likely to encounter standing water on the road or wind than in the summer.
@molgrips Yes, about that, but bear in mind we were at about -10C average for most of that time.
I notice an increase in full charge range from about 360-ish to just over 400km as the weather has got warmer, although we are currently back to -5C with 5cm of snow and another 20 on the way apparently. Yay.
I just checked the energy usage for the last month… 1447km driven, 203 kWh used for an average of 7.11 km/kWh. So, it has gone up a bit, but not much.
That's very decent, especially in a Swedish winter.
A tip we were given is to charge before use, like soon before use. The charging warms the battery slightly, so you do not suffer as much with the cold taking range away.
It's only a small boost, but it works.
I'm hoping the damn snow goes away soon so that we can get back onto summer tyres and start seeing range up nearer the 450km the car will do.
How many times have you got close to needing that range though?
Heated seats and heater, if used while running, do have a significant effect on range.
Heated seats have negligible impact on range. Cabin heating depends on whether you have a heat pump or electric fire kind of heater, but ultimately reduced range in cold temperatures is more down to battery inefficiency in the cold than keeping the car warm.
(think about it - even if the heating draws 2kW the whole time it's on, on a 4 hour drive that's only 8kWh, or about 10-15% of the battery. Pre-heating from the house will make a big difference. On Teslas this warms the battery too.
Has anyone got any experience of the electric mini? We're pleased with the petrol one, just contemplating if it would suit my wife for when we replace it.
Has anyone got any experience of the electric mini? We’re pleased with the petrol one, just contemplating if it would suit my wife for when we replace it.
Test drove one as it wasn't a terrible price
Nice drive , comfy cab. But economy takes a serious hit at 70 from the headline figures which rendered it useless for my purposes. On B roads at 55 it returns close to advertised range
Sub 100 mile range which leaves me short for client visits.
It's also a sizable car for limited interior space -
Tldr: wasn't sure why I'd buy one over a Zoe.
But in the end I bought a tiny 3cyl petrol as I didn't need another car that size.
Thanks TR. I did think the range was a bit on the low side. Hopefully they'll have fixed that by the time we're in a position to do something about it
How often are you actually driving to the maximum range of your car? I’ve done it about three times in the year I’ve had it. None of this is as big of a problem as people think.
My commute use to be a 100 mile round trip, and still is if I need to go to the office - no charger at office. I've also probably done in excess of 400 miles in a day half a dozen times in a 'normal' year. We do a 320 mile round trip once a month to see the grandkids, so I'd prefer something that could at least get there without charging. I use to do 30k pa, but now with Covid etc it's dropped to 10k.
You can wear gloves until the wheel warms up.
You can wear warmer clothes.
It's 2022 not the bloody 70's.
@StuF I’m also interested in the Mini, my i3 I’d due to go in August.
I’ve not been in one, I believe it uses the same motor as i3 but at the other end of the car - so it’ll be quick enough, won’t be the most efficient EV and should generally be very reliable.
My concern is comments about the range being a bit low in the winter for me. I *think* the battery is the same size as the previous i3, so maybe only 100 miles range in the winter 120 in summer. Don’t take this as gospel though but definitely worth checking if you need the range.
I’m trying to get my lease extended for another year as the i3 really is perfect for us and you can’t order one anymore. Our company has changed to a new lease supplier and the prices for anything to replace it with aren’t great compared to what I’m paying now.
Or what trail rat said 🙂
Heated seats have negligible impact on range. Cabin heating depends on whether you have a heat pump or electric fire kind of heater, but ultimately reduced range in cold temperatures is more down to battery inefficiency in the cold than keeping the car warm.
Absolutely. The heated seats doesn’t even register a change the predicted range, heating does but by keeping it low, on eco mode and around 19c it also has little effect. As mention is really cold weather pre-heating so the battery warms makes up for any lost range.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that's with experienced users !
What I will say is they John Clark do give good test runs of the mini they are pushing hard to get you in an electric car . Got 48 hours our of them pre-booked well in advance hence I got to determine real world range.
By comparison when I enquired about an E up at VW. They wanted me to take an UP GTi out as a comparible vehicle....
Has anyone got any experience of the electric mini? We’re pleased with the petrol one, just contemplating if it would suit my wife for when we replace it.
If your wife only does short commutes and you have another car to cover longer runs, it could be worth considering. But I have an I3s and honestly don't think I'd want a car with less range than that. Could be because I've not really embraced public charging yet though. My commute is about 35 miles rtn.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
If you look at the differences over the last few years, range is increasing pretty fast in general. I think it's just an adjustment to get used to, in my case I just need to get more comfortable with public charging, but the range has been an issue twice in 10 months of ownership. In that time, fuel and tax savings are £2-2.5k from my previous car. That's balancing well against any anxiety!
We have an electric Mini. We love it, but yes the range is really quite small - 100 miles in the winter, 125 in the summer, but then who buys a Mini to do hundreds of miles? It's extremely quick up to about 90, but it won't go faster (almost the same acceleration as the 2.0l Mini John Cooper Works I think). We live just outside one of those cruising spots they like to get injunctions for and I very much enjoy silently keeping pace with the boy racers and their cherry-popper exhausts. Tosspots.
We've done trips to Manchester and Bristol from Worcester a few times in it (to see the kids at their respective locations) just to see how easy it is and had no problems: In the summer we can get all the way to Manchester on one charge but usually stop on the way and charge at Lymm or similar just to be sure. The fast chargers really don't take long to stick some power in there.
The small battery means is charges quickly (basically empty to full on the overnight 4-hour Octopus Go tariff) so it's always ready to go in the morning for £1.44 for a full charge (we're still on the 5p/kwh at the moment)
One thing I will say is that the range display seems quite conservative, and for the price you can have something bigger with more bells and whistles.
How many times have you got close to needing that range though?
Stockholm to Vansbro is 300-ish km And that's close to max range during winter. It's less from Uppsala, but getting back with less than a full charge at Christmas was a little nerve wracking. Vansbro has two chargers and is on the way to the mountains, so was being hogged by Teslas topping up on the way to skiing. Other than that, it's finding a charger in Borlänge.
June will see us going to Östersund and that _will_ require us to be 100% when we leave the house and find a quick charger in Sundsvall that can put us to 85%.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
No, not in the least. The car doesn't just conk out on you randomly. It tells you how far you've got left, and where the charging stations are. You can stop on the way and charge! And you don't have to wait til you're empty either, you can top up half way, or whenever you pass a station.
Example: My car does about 180 miles on a charge give or take. At Easter we're going to a place near Aberystwyth which is 100 miles away, and there's no charger at the destination. Oh no! But wait, let me check Zap Map - there's plenty of chargers in Aberystwyth itself. Tesco, Morrison's and Lidl all have rapid chargers. We can check into the self catering accomodation at 3pm so we'll drive to Tesco, buy our food, charge the car (which will be on 40% or so by then) and then go and check in. Zero anxiety.
The one time I did slow down to preserve range, I didn't have to, I did it because I realised it was going to save time. On that trip I drove past about four charging stations because I knew I didn't need them. If I really were worried I'd have stopped and whacked 10 mins in which would easily have given me enough to get home at 70mph.
All it takes is a little bit of planning, which isn't really an issue, you just have to pay a tiny bit of attention. If you're one of those people who never look at your dash, then, well, you've got other problems besides that.
I'll concede the charging situation within Mid Wales is shit though. If I wanted to go to say Coed y Brenin, I'd probably divert through Newtown, only a few miles out of my way, or Llanidloes for a rapid charger. There are quite a few more 22kW chargers though which could work. Definitely slower than diesel though, but that's a Mid-Wales thing. Not an issue for most of the country.
But I'll put up with that, because driving with diesel is ten times the price.
I recently gave up on eco mode for open road driving. The HVAC is meant to be less efficient in normal mode, but it seems to have made no different to the range and the car is more comfortable. I set the heating to 21 or 20 and drive with a jumper on, which I never used to, but this is mostly because the vents are annoyingly positioned and blow air onto my bare arms.
When I'm driving my ID3 alone I have the cabin heating on at 16 or 17C. I then use the heated seat and wheel to keep me warm. They don't tend to affect the range as much as running the cabin warmer. It seems silly to heat the whole car for just me when I can have a fleece on and warm back and hands.
Putting the AC on for cold in the summer is the real range knobbler though.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
Honestly I don't think some of the posts here are typical of the average driver driving a modern EV with decent 250-300 mile range. I've been driving electric for 18 months now, including long journeys, and never contemplated or needed to turn off the HVAC to eek out range. I did once at the start of a long jouney, with 100% battery, switch off the HVAC and my predicted range increased by about 12 miles (Kia e-Niro 64kWh battery) so I switched it back on and continued in comfort.
Is it all a bit crap if you are worrying about heating or cooling the car to get home ? Range anxiety is a real thing, and that’s with experienced users !
Nah! it makes such little difference it causes no concerns. I’ve yet to experience range anxiety, they charge so much faster now and bigger range it’s not really an issue.
But I’ll put up with that, because driving with diesel is ten times the price.
Remind us how much your car actually costs per mile, all costs covered. My 2018 diesel is sat at just under 50ppm if sold today.
Remind us how much your car actually costs per mile, all costs covered.
About 26p, bear in mind that's a brand new motor.
But I think it's rather foolish to conflate running costs with purchase price. One is operational expenditure, the other is capital expenditure. You buy the car to have the capability to drive whenever you want in general, but each journey is made for a specific purpose so the cost of the fuel is made against the value of that journey. That's how people actually use cars.
I don't know, given the amount you are all going on about using the AC or heating..... especially if you've a Mini that will only do 100 miles (and just how expensive are they to purchase).
I'm assuming AC in an electric car is mechanically very similar to an ICE car. Then not using it will cause additional issues with seals not being lubricated properly etc. Use it or lose it with AC.
I’m assuming AC in an electric car is mechanically very similar to an ICE car. Then not using it will cause additional issues with seals not being lubricated properly etc. Use it or lose it with AC.
Varies a bit, I think. AIUI if you have a heat pump it is always moving heat around between cabin, coolant and battery anyway regardless of what you've set the AC to..
We tried a Polestar. Ours never came before we told them to stick it. Merc EQA is incoming now.
We did have a loan top of the range Polestar for a month, it was nice but have found we can get a EQA fully tricked out and similar/slightly better range for £50 a month less
The Zoé heat pump gets used every journey and charge to keep the battery at optimum temperature.
I've turned the heater off/down on a few long trips where it's going to cost time either driving slower or charging but on trips that won't require a charge don't worry about it.
I found this whilst googling. Doesn't say what spec the tested cars were - things like heat pumps are standard in some geos but not others.
But I think it’s rather foolish to conflate running costs with purchase price. One is operational expenditure, the other is capital expenditure. You buy the car to have the capability to drive whenever you want in general, but each journey is made for a specific purpose so the cost of the fuel is made against the value of that journey. That’s how people actually use cars.
its alot like those folk that spent a fortune to get zero tax cars ..... to save 200 quid a year.
smoke and mirrors maths.
My experience with using the heater (it doesn't have a heat pump) and electric seat were the basis for my comment that it affected the range. On a journey I do regularly without using the heat, I saw reduction to 65% of the range when using seat heat and A/C on 20º - some of that would have been down low battery temp as it was cold, but I'd been kayaking and had cold hands and damp stuff in the car so was using proportionately more heat.
even if the heating draws 2kW the whole time it’s on
The car (VW e-Up) draws about 7kW on average on the journey I'm comparing, so if the heating was 2kW that would be reducing to range to 78%.
The loss of range wasn't a worry as I had plenty of range left and could recharge at home.
so if the heating was 2kW that would be reducing to range to 78%.
That was an extreme example, actual consumption will be far less. A 2kW heater in a small enclosed space running continuously would bake you.
According to the app, today's short slow urban commute has used 73% of consumed energy for driving and 10% for climate control, on a chilly-ish morning.
@molgrips that chart is meaningless without any other info, and looks like it was done by Hyundai…
I’ve just had a play on the way to work, i3S 120Ah without optional heat pump.
Sitting at a comfortable 18*C with the climate control on auto my range was 112 miles. Turning all Climate off I gained just 4miles. Pressing the “Max A/C” button reduced the range by 4 miles. The only thing that made any considerable difference was putting the heat to max and turning the fan right up, reduced the range by about 15 miles.
I think that even with the aircon off in the i3 the compressor is still running to cool the electrics, so any cooling inside the car is negligible to battery.
Heating obviously makes more difference but at normal temperatures (eg not 28degrees) I don’t think it makes any really difference to worry about.
If I was always trying to get the maximum range out of mine then I should have added the heat pump, but In don’t need to.
Anyone driving with gloves and hat on probably bought the wrong car or should embrace public charging.
About 26p, bear in mind that’s a brand new motor.
I'm confused - what is actually in this 26ppm?
Lease cost per year/10k miles + average leccy cost per mile.
Ok it's slightly more than that given some away-from-home charging and I may not cover the full 10k miles of the lease this year, but as said I'm not lumping the cost of the car and the cost per journey together.
Interesting to hear everyone's experiences. I'd been wondering if running my leaf climate control at 18 degrees* (rather than warmer) gave me any extra range. I suspect not measurably so.
*because that's the temp I find comfortable, no other reason
Also seems to depend on the car - 21 in the Merc is really quite warm, 21 in the Hyundai is a bit chilly. Both are supposedly climate controlled.
Lease cost per year/10k miles + average leccy cost per mile.
Hmm, any chance you could tell us the actually running cost, otherwise based on your calc my diesel is far cheaper* to run.
And even though I've, what most folk will consider, an expensive car (replacement costs circa £47k), in EV terms it's bottom end. Looks like I'll be avoiding them for a while longer...
* at £1.70pl for 50mpg it's only 15ppm since I own the car...
otherwise based on your calc my diesel is far cheaper* to run.
My maths got here as well without using man math to justify low point of use cost.
Total cost of against a cheap petrol car when I did my maths accounted for enough fuel to do enough miles to see the car scrapped from corrosion in my neck of the woods.
Just seen that the Citroen Ami will be AM licence class so OK for a 16 year old. My daughter is 16 later this year...
Any idea how you do an AM class driving test?
<edit>looks like a standard moped test</edit>
climate control at 18 degrees* <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">*because that’s the temp I find comfortable, no other reason</span>
I’m always surprised when this topic comes up on the i3 FB group, there’s a lot of people that set their car to 21 degrees or more, by which point I’m melting. 18 or a degree either side is comfortable.
I’m always surprised when this topic comes up on the i3 FB group, there’s a lot of people that set their car to 21 degrees or more, by which point I’m melting. 18 or a degree either side is comfortable.
Maybe you're carry more 'insulation' than me 🙂
Also while I've the AC at 21c I also play with the cold air on the vents.
And even though I’ve, what most folk will consider, an expensive car (replacement costs circa £47k), in EV terms it’s bottom end.
Look at lease.
I agree that using an existing ICE car will be cheaper than buying a new electric, but that's hardly a like for like comparison.
And yes buying EVs new can be expensive, but leases seem to be very good value.
I've said before on here we got a really great lease price through a corporate scheme (NHS), paid through salary sacrifice (thus avoiding a chunk of higher rate tax), and it was 0% benefit-in-kind tax due to being electric (that has now risen to 2% I believe but still good).
but leases seem to be very good value.
Any examples of this good value ? More so on vehicles availible now....and not restricted to those on employee only deals ? With (for intheborders comparison....useful milage limitations)
at £1.70pl for 50mpg it’s only 15ppm since I own the car…
I never understand this argument, proper 'man-maths' if ever I read it. Yes, you own a car outright now, but it won't last forever, so presumably unless you plan on this being your last car ever, you are having to squirrel an amount away each month to save for the next, or you will have to take a loan (or HP etc.) Either way, that still represents a ppm 'cost' to you. Take the cost of a £10k car you buy outright, driven for 5 years at 12k miles a year, that's still cost you nearly 17ppm over the lifetime of that vehicle. (after 5 years the residual value will just about cover inflation - your £2k selling price will be now be used against the £12k 'same' car. That's money you are having to put away from day one of owning the 'new' car ready for the next purchase. YMMV (literally) but one thing it isn't is 0ppm.
That holds true if your next lease is also free I guess.
FWIW, the Climate systems in most cars are rated between about 5 and 9kW. Not 2kW.
There's a set of defrosting/deicing legal requirements that drives the dimensioning.
That's one reason why very short/local journeys are so bad. The climate system uses a shed load of energy to heat the car up/dry out the air/cool the car before there is any useable spare heat from the motor/battery/engine.
Then you park up and walk round Aldi and the car goes to ambient temp again.
Heat pumps are better, but only marginally.
Once you're up to temp, and everything is warm, the AC is essentially only using the energy needed to dry the intake air out. So a couple of kW, plus whatever extra heating/cooling is needed.
TR: Nobody said it was. A few people here claiming that owning cars outright =0ppm after fuel/servicing.
The climate system uses a shed load of energy to heat the car up/dry out the air/cool the car before there is any useable spare heat
You can improve efficiency (at least in mine) by telling it when you’re leaving so it heats the battery and car up whilst plugged in. Obviously it uses mains electric to do it but improves your range, until you’ve parked in Aldi for some time - I have no idea how long that time is but I suspect it takes quite a while to fully cool.
Must have missed the one claiming that.
My maths over 5 cars (between me and the wife) I've owned over the last 18 years suggests the cost per mile is actually pretty low. Never had a car only last 5 years though.
Hmm, any chance you could tell us the actually running cost, otherwise based on your calc my diesel is far cheaper* to run.
For fuel it's usually about 1p a mile for me, that looks like going up to 1.5p in July when my fixed tariff ends. That's a tenth the cost of a diesel journey. I rarely need to fill up at a public charger but they are about 40p so you can do the maths.
Driving to my parents costs more on coffee than it does on fuel. It's so cheap as to be trivial.
I’ve, what most folk will consider, an expensive car (replacement costs circa £47k), in EV terms it’s bottom end.
No, bottom end EVs are about £27k if you don't count super minis. £47k is mid range and yes, it's a lot.
Blimey, a Leaf is about the same price as a Qashqai.
Blimey, a Leaf is about the same price as a Qashqai.
Yes pricing went insane. You likely got in just in time.
That is what I mean when I say the gulf between a petrol car and an EV us worth a shitload of fuel.
For fuel it’s usually about 1p a mile for me, that looks like going up to 1.5p in July when my fixed tariff ends.
I've been looking at this recently as we may need to change our car soon. Looking very much at the cheap end (Leaf or MG5). Over long term it just works but depends on us doing the millage (assuming petrol doesn't double in price though). The total cost is massively front loaded in the cost of the car (so unlikely to go electric just now).
We're currently fixed until September 23 so unlikely to change until next year. Currently we're 20p kWh and I reckon that's coming out at > 6p/mile (MG5 210 range, 57kWh battery, 0.85 charge efficiency).
Yes pricing went insane. You likely got in just in time.
That is what I mean when I say the gulf between a petrol car and an EV us worth a shitload of fuel.
I was surprised they were the same price. I'd thought of a Leaf as comparable to a Qashqai, going by interior space and general appearance. I didn't look much at new EV prices but our list price was £30k minus £3k grant, which looks to be the same as the Leaf now.
Currently an Ioniq EV is £8.5k more than the cheapest Ioniq which is a hybrid. Looks like it's rated at 62mpg which is roughly 10.7p a mile at £1.50 for petrol. At 7.5p/kWh and say 4.7m/kWh average consumption the EV could be doing about 1.6p/mile. So for 10k miles that's about £910 cheaper to drive the EV - IF (and it's a fairly big if) you could actually average 62mpg in the hybrid. My long term EV average is actually 4.7m/kWh
So at that rate a 9.4 year payback at 10k miles per year.. Or, if you were only to get 50mpg in the petrol hybrid and do 15k miles that brings it down to 5 years. All on current prices of course.
At 7.5p/kWh and say 4.7m/kWh average consumption the EV could be doing about 1.6p/mile
Charging is not 100% efficient so I think you're probably a bit out on your calculations here.
Though I think £1.50/l is also optimistic so maybe this cancels out...
I also think his cost of leccy is optimistic but yeah . Long pay back.
Now if I had free charging at work
access to cheap leases
Need to have a car newer than 5 years on the drive for policy
Then the maths is different
My lease was an exceptionally good deal it must be said. I am not sure I'll get another EV when it is up. If we can go to one car we could lease a tow-capable car (Ionia 5) for the same price I pay now per month for the Ionia EV and the loan on the Merc, but only leasing so not gaining any asset. I just can't afford to buy an Ioniq 5.
A large part of that calculation is that if we were to be a one car family the annual mileage would be so low as to not be worth it until there are good used options.
Just moving back to a company car after diesel ownership for the last 5 years. Gone with EV via salary sacrifice as it’s by far the cheapest way to get a new car. Hope to make some useful savings on personal fuel via mainly charging at home albeit the end of fixed electricity deal in the summer will dent that a bit.
21 in the Merc is really quite warm, 21
Celsius vs Fahrenheit?😉
Our eNiro is a lease and the deal was the reason that we could afford and justify it. Buying outright was never an option, as even a Niro was nearly half a million kronor, but the leasing monthly costs work out at about 4500kr.
Yes, that is high, but that was for the middle model with bigger battery and motor and included full insurance, servicing, winter tyres on alloys and tyre hotel for them.
I need to sit down and do the maths behind the running costs when I get a bill from our electricity people, but just taking into account the insurance we had to pay for our Passat in town, it’s not a bad deal. Fuel costs are, as I said on the other thread, about 18-20kr a litre depending on whether you want E85 or 95 and are only going up. El is, for the moment, cheaper (even though it is expensive). Also, no tax on the car compared to an ICE, despite the Passat being classed as an eco and having reduced tax.
I never understand this argument, proper ‘man-maths’ if ever I read it.
I was responding to Moly's comment.
I know exactly what my car has cost:
50.87ppm for all costs if sold today
21.32ppm purely running costs
I know exactly what my car has cost:
50.87ppm for all costs if sold today
You know what your car would have cost if you sold it today, but you're not. You won't know what the total cost has been until you do sell it so not that useful of a figure IMO.
Interestingly I was reading about an a study in the gutter press.
A comparison company called mone.co.uk (who?)
Published the below data.
Denmark - Saving £22,036.26
Norway - Saving £14,313.72
Ireland - Saving £3,312.59
France - Saving £2,779.45
Iceland - Saving £2,564.69
Switzerland - Saving £2,219.09
The Netherlands - Saving £1,801.54
Portugal - Saving £156.77
UK - Spending another £720.44
Germany - Spending another £692.79
You won’t know what the total cost has been until you do sell it so not that useful of a figure IMO.
Semantics. Its easy enough to make an estimate.
But to be sure its no more certain than you know the cost of your next lease..... Swings and round abouts.
You know what your car would have cost if you sold it today, but you’re not. You won’t know what the total cost has been until you do sell it so not that useful of a figure IMO.
FFS I'm out, yet another thread where Moly can't be told.
I also think his cost of leccy is optimistic but yeah
It's not, Octopus offer the Go tariff which gives 4hrs @ 7.5p overnight, it's the tariff I and many other EV drivers are on.
EV's are the way to go if you plan on leasing, especially the 'all in deals' as lease cost's aren't much more than an ICE car. Also good if you do alot of commuting in the car.
Prior to Covid, I was looking at a used Zoe or similar for the 10 mile commute into the city, and free charging at work. Since covid, I'm only in the office 2-3 days a week, and I've switched back to cycle commuting (used to do it but suffered a bad accident 6 years ago). My current car is 20 years old, and it's yet to get unreliable, but I'm not using it much. It would be silly just to change for the sake of it, and not good environmentally.
I can't justify £400-£600 on a mid range EV every month, for what use it would get. Using an ICE car where it works best (longer trips) then local via bike or foot is far better, or taking the Aygo.
Even the free charging at work isn't selling it.
Then again, these new city EV's could change things for us - doesn't need more than 30-40 mile range as we both work 10 miles away.
Mine hasn’t arrived yet, but even taking a pessimistic view of mileage/cost of elec it’s going to be less than 50ppm, probably closer to 45ppm. That’s on a lease of a £45k EV. It’s a work scheme (which I know I’m fortunate to be able to access) so includes insurance, servicing, tax etc. so def. an all in figure. That all in figure is one of the attractions tbh, one less thing to think about. Call it hedging on future motoring costs! Horses for courses, naturally.
It’s not, Octopus offer the Go tariff which gives 4hrs @ 7.5p overnight, it’s the tariff I and many other EV drivers are on.
I've just checked and the Go cost is 6.5p more per KWh outside of the 4 hour charging window versus standard (in my case Shell Tariff). So that needs to be factoring into the calc.
Still works out significantly cheaper as long as you are disciplined with charging only in the window but the headline rate is misleading. If I actually ever manage to get a bloody ev delivered I will work out a blended rate spreadsheet to work out savings at various usage levels
Right so that's something like 36p per Kwh outside the overnight window of 7.5p (30p per Kwh is the usual charge now). Wowsers. I'm assuming this can all be automatically timed with the car.
How far do you go, say in town on 1 Kwh ? - Got to be cheaper than say 25 mpg in city in a large petrol car.
Wowsers. I’m assuming this can all be automatically timed with the car.
Yup but it’s easier to programme the charger. Charge off peek and the savings are much bigger.
How far do you go, say in town on 1 Kwh ? –
For me in my big suv style. Currently it’s about 2.1 around town. They really don’t like short journeys in towns.
In my postcode Go is 33.96p per kWh outside cheap 4 hour window, my Shell Tariff is 27.36p. standing charge for both is just over 48p per day.
As I say above I will do myself a blended rate spreadsheet at some point - but Go will be cheaper for me, but it's wrong to just use the 7.5p in isolation for cosy of charging EV
Also need to check if there is any impact on gas tariff as well, as am I'm on standard variable I'm assuming not - but in normal times dual fuel tariffs are cheaper
FFS I’m out, yet another thread where Moly can’t be told.
I can be told: what you've told me is that your (and my) diesel car is more expensive to run but is cheaper to buy. I agree. And as I showed earlier, (new) EV ownership has a payback time but it depends on how far you drive.
All I'm saying is that brandishing an all-in-one cost of ownership figure based on something you're not going to do (i.e. selling today) isn't especially useful, in my view. It might be in yours, in which case crack on but there's no need to get the hump.
I’ve just checked and the Go cost is 6.5p more per KWh outside of the 4 hour charging window versus standard (in my case Shell Tariff). So that needs to be factoring into the calc.
Good point, I hadn't factored that in, although my current deal is only 16p on-peak which at the time was also cheaper than most.
But then again, I can also use the off-peak tariff to heat my water, which could save more again. And you can only get that tariff if you have an EV!
So, Say commuting 20 miles a day in traffic, 2 miles a Kwh
You'd need 10 Kwh a day, so let's say £1 off peak (10p per Kwh), £3.50 peak (35p per Kwh). So max £17.50 a week for 5 days commute paying top rate- you'd struggle to get a city car to come close. Double that for a larger ICE.
At best £5 a week in leccy.
Something to think about. Cheaper than a running a blooming hot tub !