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It was interesting that there were 4 Porsche Tacyans, a Mercedes EQC and another e-Tron charging or in the queue; all at the premium end of the scale. I guess hardly surprising when it costs 69p per kwh.
I get 12 months subscription to ionity when I bought my BMW. Instead of 69 per Kwh , its a mere 26p. Im glad they chose them as they have the 350kw fast chargers ( though im limited to a mere 150 charging speed)
In a few months Ionity will be full of Hyundais & Kia’s as they can take advantage of the super fast charging speeds.
Late-2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance here. First EV.
Range – anywhere between 50 and 75% of claimed, it’s dire TBH, with upcoming energy price increases it’ll (almost) cost as much to run as a diesel 3-Series BMW.
Performance – Having come from an BMW M2 and then an X3MC, I can confirm it’s astonishingly quick, but pointlessly quick, it’s a sterile experience.
Function – The iPad fixes a problem that didn’t exist, the lack of buttons, speed in front of you, is tedious and distracting. The auto lights and wipers are rubbish, as is the inconsistent regen braking. The wheels/rim design makes curbing inevitable. You can’t see the door handles at night. Don’t buy the key, it has no buttons, but does at the same time, they rarely do what you expect.
Other - Other divers seem to get Tesla rage, it's odd.
There doesn't seem to be many fully well sorted cars out there currently. My Hyundai is great as a car, mostly, but it has shit infotainment and the onslaught of bongs and bings is beginning to grate. In the pics the Ioniq 5 seems to have a similar system. The ID4 has its issues too apparently.
Can anyone recommend a resource that’ll show expected charging times e.g.
If I got car X at 77kw battery its full charging times from below are…?
a) 3 pin plug
b) 7kw charger……etc
Podpoint have some pretty good car-by-car guides - click through on the model you're interested in and it gives charging time or miles of range per hour. https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles
Fastned have a good collection of rapid charging curves for the different models - ie when charging speed drops off as they fill up https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/sections/4409800889105-Fast-charging
It was interesting that there were 4 Porsche Tacyans, a Mercedes EQC and another e-Tron charging or in the queue; all at the premium end of the scale. I guess hardly surprising when it costs 69p per kwh.
Neither the Porsche nor the Mercedes have great range, but they do have very rapid charging (225kw for the Porsche, 112kw for the Mercedes) The Ionity Chargers are the only ones which can reliably deliver this. On a 50Kw charger, neither the Porsche nor the Merc will get to even 50% inside the 1hr charging window, so it makes sense that they'd aim for the proper rapid chargers even if more expensive.
Can anyone recommend a resource that’ll show expected charging times e.g.
If I got car X at 77kw battery its full charging times from below are…?
a) 3 pin plug
b) 7kw charger……etc
It's fairly simple math. 25-30hours on a 3pin plug as you probably won't get 3kw, it'll be between 2.5 and 2.9kw. And around 11-13hours on a 7kw as again it'll vary on a number of things including what's happening in your house at the time. Ours usually charges at 6.9kw for the first 85-90% (depends on external temperature) and then drops down, but it's not unusual at work for it to be anywhere between 5.5 and 6.7kw/h. I've never got any higher at work (Pod Point).
Range – anywhere between 50 and 75% of claimed, it’s dire TBH, with upcoming energy price increases it’ll (almost) cost as much to run as a diesel 3-Series BMW.
Out of curiosity, what sort of speeds are you doing in it? Be honest, we’re all adults here.
My Model 3 LR has averaged 239Wh/mile over 5000 mostly motorway miles, and that’s setting the cruise control to 72. If you’re doing 85, your required power will be almost 75% more.
Efficiency of an EV drops off a LOT above 60mph as it’s a linear power drive and drag proportional to v squared is the biggest factor.
Even paying 30p/KW on the SVR from April it is half the cost of petrol.
I can’t believe anyone looking to own an EV long term isn’t looking into options to pay less for electricity.
My smart meter goes in next week. Once I’ve analysed the timings of my leccy usage I will see if my proposed solar/battery solution will work.
Power required goes up with the cube of the speed, which is why EVs can struggle on motorways, particularly into headwinds,
@dantsw13 - re the paying less for electricity. Spot on. I have a Tesla Powerwall at home, it charges my Model S and takes care of about 50% electricity on a daily basis, more in the summer. A bit of an outlay, but you can power cut-proof yourself and save yourself some money over time.
This certainly helps with charging costs and general consumption anyway.
https://electrek.co/ have some great information on home charging technologies
Thanks for the above. Work are refocusing company car policy to favor full elwctric and installing 11kw chargers in the car park, so its useful to know how much i can top up during a day at the office.
Regarding one of the previous comments I can't imagine why someone spending 60 grand on an Audi e Tron is particularly bothered about the cost of the rapid charger per kWh, surely it's a drop in the ocean regards the total cost of ownership/use by that point?
It's like when people buy an 80 grand range rover then whinge that the road tax is 500 quid a year
@dantsw13 be really interested to learn more about your plans and analysis!!
@lamp that’s really interesting. I’ve been looking at solar and battery, and have come to conclusion you need battery to really make solar work, but hadn’t thought about just battery!!! We are octopus Go, so could charge powerwall off peak, and discharge throughout the day at significantly lower cost.
so its useful to know how much i can top up during a day at the office.
How far is it to work?
@lamp that’s really interesting. I’ve been looking at solar and battery, and have come to conclusion you need battery to really make solar work, but hadn’t thought about just battery!!! We are octopus Go, so could charge powerwall off peak, and discharge throughout the day at significantly lower cost.
The main caveat with battery-only is that it is currently dependent on single tariff from a single provider. If the discrepancy between peak and off-peak rates reduces which could happen if more people have BEVs then the equation may not stack up.
If you have solar you can export using Octopus Agile which tracks market rates. Over the last 3 months, during solar hours, this has averaged around 20p per kWh and over the last year at least 10p per kw/hr. So the difference between import and export narrower (lessening the case for a battery).
My gut feeling is that solar generates during daylight hours when people are up and about and therefore energy should be generally useful. Therefore it does not make much sense to me to store it.
P.S. You can't have Octopus Go and Octopus agile outgoing.
Re: charge points. My podpoint just works, install was great. It doesn’t have any smart features, all the timing etc is managed by the car, if that’s what you want I can recommend one.
Podpoint have added scheduled charging to their app now, so not a problem if you have a car like mine, which has no charging scheduling.
Been using my Podpoint for almost a year, with no problems.
How far is it to work?
Well, it could be al out anywhere in the UK but here I was referring London to Gloucester in a - predicted - Kia EV6, so 220 miles with 2-3hrs top up will release any anxiety, but if I can I'll be leaving it on all day.
I say predicted because the policy at work is being revised to reward EV drivers and I don't know what I can get yet, but a little bird told me an EV6 was in the ball park.
They current 320d will remain as the other car so very long range trips in the depths of winter could be done in that leaving the EV6 for school runs on those days, depending on who Work views that.
so very long range trips in the depths of winter could be done in that leaving the EV6 for school runs on those days,
That's my plan - if a journey looks like it'll cause major stress swap with the Mrs for that day.
@nothernremedy - i think V2H is coming along soon with the next generation of home EV chargers and so the battery storage can be your car. Spend the money on solar? You'd just have to be on top of when to set the app to no discharge when the cars needed for a longer journey. Quite how the lease companies/car manufacturers (warranty!) see this charge/discharge with no miles scenario I'm not sure.
EV6 is very nice. 220 mile round trip with an 8 hr top up on a free work charger sounds perfect, even in the coldest weather.
Any longer trip you should be stoping anyway, and 15 minutes on a Gridserve/Ionity will give at least 50% top up on an EV6.
Any longer trip you should be stoping anyway, and 15 minutes on a Gridserve/Ionity will give at least 50% top up on an EV6.
I agree, but also if a trips that long I mostly prefer to work on a Train.
I don’t blame you, especially if work fund rather train/taxi.
I was very interested in the EV6, and ended up going for the Ioniq5, as it was much cheaper on my work scheme.
Regarding one of the previous comments I can’t imagine why someone spending 60 grand on an Audi e Tron is particularly bothered about the cost of the rapid charger per kWh, surely it’s a drop in the ocean regards the total cost of ownership/use by that point?
It’s like when people buy an 80 grand range rover then whinge that the road tax is 500 quid a year
Very true, but I didn't see or hear anyone complaining.
I was very interested in the EV6, and ended up going for the Ioniq5, as it was much cheaper on my work scheme.
I'm likely to be juggling similar decisions when the Policy is concluded and shared, of course I quite like the i4 ****ers sales managers car but suspect my employer won't see the same way I do 😀
Yours sounds like a company car scheme rather than Sal Sac.
Some rough numbers/mo:
I5 top spec £503
EV6 Top spec £620
I4/Etron/EQC were all £650+ for base models
These are all inclusive packages 15,000/yr
@danstw13
I was very interested in the EV6, and ended up going for the Ioniq5,
I'd be grateful for your comparison if you'd be kind enough to spare a few words.
This may have been answered earlier in the thread, apologies if so.
But, is there anything in place to stop people leaving their cars in a charging spot all day/night, even after the car if full charges. Basically using the spot as a free (bar the cost of the charge) parking space?
We have 5 charging spots at work and maybe 250 people in the car park. There’ll increase the number of charging spaces in due course, but at the moment it’s always the same car in the space when I arrive as when I leave. This doesn’t feel fair if you happen to be the 6th EV to arrive that day.
You're talking about a private car park. So they can make their own rules, or not.
It's a real issue at many public chargers too.
Yes some have implemented punishment charges for staying beyond full charge but many have not.
You’re talking about a private car park. So they can make their own rules, or not.
OK.
But the same could happen in public streets too, I know a few near me that have similar.
So general question, is there time restrictions on charging points?
So general question, is there time restrictions on charging points?
Yes and no.
Some charging providers apply limits depending on the charger e.g. if it's a 7kw they might not but if it's a rapid 50kw+ it could be 90mins max.
Then you have to take into account the car parks own parking time limits. If you're at a gym or a supermarket usually there's a max time limit you can stay and that includes anyone who's using charging facilities.
Tesla charge the user a punishment cost for sitting on a charger at 100%. This is feasible because the whole charger and car ecosystem works together.
I'm sure this would be positive for all chargers and cars but it would require cooperation between the different manufacturers.
Chargers in Dingwall charge £1 per minute for overstaying. You get 45 mins +15 mins grace then the £1 per min kicks in.
It works well and prevents folk plugging in for the day IME.
I would suggest a morning/afternoon system for workplace charging if demand is greater than the number of chargers. Maybe also a granny option if someone needs more than that.
Kryton - Im sure you are aware that the I5/EV6 are sister cars and very similar. I would say the EV6 edges slightly more to being a "Drivers Car" whereas the I5 is built for serene cruising.
Internally, the EV6 has a more traditional setup, cocooning the driver. The I5 centre console slides back, giving a free flat space across the front floor. You can even get out of the opposite side with ease.
They both have the 220KW charging ability and the Infotainment systems and car tech are pretty much the same.
I5 boot is slightly bigger and more practical.
EV6 battery is slightly bigger hence the range is better, but any I5 built after Feb will (not officially confirmed) also get the bigger battery. EV6 slightly sleeker so more economical at high speeds.
EV6 ever so slightly faster but both are rapid.
I struggled to chose between them and would have been happy with either. In the end the price differential on my work scheme made the choice for me. Both should come with 12 months Ionity membership to access the cheaper rates.
Kryton, Johnny Smith has driven both on his Late Brake Show YouTube channel, if you haven’t seen it. He rates both, but the I5 edged it for him, in terms of style and practicality.
But, is there anything in place to stop people leaving their cars in a charging spot all day/night, even after the car if full charges. Basically using the spot as a free (bar the cost of the charge) parking space?
Nope, but in our work car park we have an unofficial system where you just leave your cable connected to the car and draped over the the charger if it's occupied when you arrive. When the person whose car is charging leaves, they plug yours in before they go.
Works fairly well.
Dantsw13 & ten foot thanks thats very useful. I'll have a look at the Late Brake Show - I have seen the Fifth Gear range test.
Late-2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance here. First EV.
Range – anywhere between 50 and 75% of claimed, it’s dire TBH, with upcoming energy price increases it’ll (almost) cost as much to run as a diesel 3-Series BMW.
You really believe any EV will achieve its WLTP range? Do petrol cars ever get anywhere close to their claimed mpg?
Tesla Model 3 performance has a 75kWh battery. My Kia e-Niro will get 3.5 miles per kWh at a steady 75mph so you should easily get that out of the Model 3 giving you a real world range of at least 260 miles so you would be looking for a recharge at 200 miles which is which is 2 and a half hours of motoring. Franky my bladder would be looking for a urinal at that point. However if you are making full use of the Model 3's performance then range will drop like a stone just as it would in a petrol car.
I can confirm it’s astonishingly quick, but pointlessly quick, it’s a sterile experience.
You call it sterile but others might call it quiet, calm, efficient and relaxing.
OK, watched the review. For me its the EV6 still mainly because of small things - for example I like a "cockpit" so prefer the Kia centre console more than the Hyundai's, and the looks of the EV6.
I'm hoping the £47k AWD GT line will be in budget!
Sounds like it’s the right one for you then👍
As I said, they are both very similar functionally, it’s just a choice of style.
I’d reccommend a test drive though as they are both big cars. I saw an I-Pace last week & couldn’t believe it’s size!
Yep I'll be test driving, but I'm waiting for the company policy to be released as I don't want to get my hopes up. In the mean time I will continue to watch the thread with interest.
I'm sure it's already been said but WLTP can give misleading figures for BEVs. Its somewhat skewed away from motorway driving, which is fine when measuring an ICE as they're generally more efficient on the motorway so it doesn't drag down the numbers. For BEVs the motorway is one of the toughest use cases so they are unlikely to achieve the WLTP range on a long motorway trip. Which is fine really as long as they can manage a full stint followed by a fast enough charge for the next stint.
You really believe any EV will achieve its WLTP range?
Some do, and some exceed it. It depends on the driving profile obviously, and in this case town driving is more efficient than motorway unlike with ICE cars. The difference between motorway and down seems to depend on aerodynamics as you'd expect.
There's a test here, but I read another test (that I cannot find now) that had some cars exceeding the WTLP, depending on the driving. Our Hyundai does exceed the WTL in the summer with a decent amount of driving around town, and the overall average since we got it is on about 4.8 which is right on the WTLP range if my calculations are correct.
But the variability in how close they come seems to be a lot more variable than with ICE cars.
KIA is honest with it's WTLP. In summer I get the 270 miles claimed mileage out of my Soul but workmate gets more because he drives more sensible. Yea it's lower in winter as I have the heater on.
I’m sure it’s already been said but WLTP can give misleading figures for BEVs. Its somewhat skewed away from motorway driving, which is fine when measuring an ICE as they’re generally more efficient on the motorway so it doesn’t drag down the numbers.
It does vary though. If I could face the boredom of driving at 50mph in my Model 3 I can extract a range of over 400 miles from a full tank of electricity.
Depending on your car you might actually get to your destination quicker if you drive slower 🙂
Driving at 60 on the motorway is so much less stressful than 80. Leave 10 minutes earlier & chill with ACC on.
I find WLTP figures achievable for mixed driving when it's dry and fairly warm.
Mostly motorway - take a bit off
Colder temps - take a bit off
Wet roads - take a bit off
I've had quite a few trips where I planned for a charge stop but found I had plenty and could make it without one. Lots of cars (like petrol ones) have some reserve once the range figure drops to 0 too.
I have found that the winter penalty is less on the motorway than it is in town, strangely. I think my car has a heat pump, which would mean that the wasted heat from the higher current draw on motorway could heat the cabin, whereas in town it has to use extra energy to heat.
I’ve had quite a few trips where I planned for a charge stop but found I had plenty and could make it without one.
I was thinking I'd have to stop on the M4 on the way home, my range would run out about 20 miles from home. Then I realised if I slowed down to 65 I could get home without the extra stop and actually arrive earlier. I got home with about 5 miles on the display. Despite the fact I knew exactly how far I had to go and that the remaining charge would cover it, it was still dicey 🙂
Despite the fact I knew exactly how far I had to go and that the remaining charge would cover it, it was still dicey 🙂
Posted 1 day ago
I find I’m a bit more experimental letting the range go down when I’m on my own . If I have the wife and/or the bin lids with me then I will charge a lot earlier in the journey
How many long trips have you done? I've only charged away from home twice because COVID obvs.
I really like having the REx in our i3. It really does allow you to use all the battery range without having to factor in things like broken chargers, occupied chargers, etc.
We did Bournemouth and back in the i3 in the summer. With 4 people and luggage the car did 157miles with 3% remaining in the pack. If we hadn’t have had the REx available, I wouldn’t have chances it.
Molgrips - do you have a charger close to home you can bail out to if it gets too tight?
The petrol station 5 miles north of me has one as an emergency backup. In addition my onboard granny cable could be plugged in if the charger there is offline. Anecdotally, my Ioniq5 will also do 20-30k+ once the range drops to zero, albeit in turtle mode. It might be worth googling your car to see if similar data is out there - not to intend using it, but for peace of mind.
You really believe any EV will achieve its WLTP range? Do petrol cars ever get anywhere close to their claimed mpg?
Tesla Model 3 performance has a 75kWh battery. My Kia e-Niro will get 3.5 miles per kWh at a steady 75mph so you should easily get that out of the Model 3 giving you a real world range of at least 260 miles so you would be looking for a recharge at 200 miles which is which is 2 and a half hours of motoring. Franky my bladder would be looking for a urinal at that point. However if you are making full use of the Model 3’s performance then range will drop like a stone just as it would in a petrol car.
I agree with this. My Model S will do that consumption level with a little care in the summer, and Model 3 consumption is a fair bit lower. Mine's got a bigger battery and higher per mile consumption which combine to the same range as a Model 3.
Ref the point about winter penalty being greater in town than motorway (or perhaps more accurately greater on lots of short trips than one long one), I wonder whether there's a link between the is and the range scare stories. Some of the winter penalty is down to less regen braking when the battery is cold, so there are extra losses there, and much more so in town driving. And the effect lasts up to 45 mins in my experience because things don't warm up quickly - not the wasted heat we're used to from ICE. Heater use there's also more penalty early in the journey, where for an ICE there is no material penalty because it was wasting all that heat anyway. So if your day is made up of lots of shorter journeys with time for the car to cool between then range can be hit really hard. So the "50% of quoted range" scenario is quite possible, but that scenario would normally also come with charging opportunity, in at least 1 of those 1+hr cooling stops. You'd have to have a seriously lead foot to get only half of quoted range on a single journey, and it's the single journey where range is most important.
One of the things I learned is that in a day where you'll challenge range, rather than "stopping because you need to charge", you should "charge because you've stopped", then range is only important in the long single trip. You only need to find yourself near a charge point for half an hour at some point during this very driving heavy day to add a lot of range. In reality though, these days for me are very rare. I use a public charger monthly at most.
We can also be guilty of thinking some factors are EV-related when in fact they apply equally to ICE. For example the idea that EVs have a motorway disadvantage because wind resistance increases with speed cubed. Surely this is a driving cars fast disadvantage, not an EV disadvantage.
i was farting about looking at the power usage last weekend, on shorter local journeys a larger portion of the power used goes into heating the cabin. In 10 miles of pottering about with the heater on it was a fairly even split, something like like 50% of the power was used to move the car, the 50% for (mostly) heating and electronics.
100 miles on the motorway would be much more like 90% used to move the car 10% heating
Interested in the comments on heating using a lot of power.
In my Zoe when the heating is turned on it consumes 1kW, so I am guessing that equates to the heat pump delivering 2 or 3kW of heat to the car, which is what it feels like - warms up slowly.
But 1kW doesn’t sound like that much vs the motor power consumption?
I'll have another fart around this weekend, this was with the heating turned up and driving like an old lady (how I tend to drive these days)
I find loads of short trips in winter hammers the remaining range estimate. You're heating several cubic metres of space from scratch over and over again, so overall power consumption is very high for so few miles. Worse, some cars like the ID.3 assume every trip will be a long one and start heating the battery each time too - better for efficiency over a long distance but again just wasted heat/energy on a short one.
ICE wastes so much energy to heat that it's never a problem.
True but short ICE trips are also very bad for economy.
We can also be guilty of thinking some factors are EV-related when in fact they apply equally to ICE. For example the idea that EVs have a motorway disadvantage because wind resistance increases with speed cubed. Surely this is a driving cars fast disadvantage, not an EV disadvantage.
The big difference being ICE engines are working in their efficient range at motorway speeds, which mitigates this.
Or you could say that an ICE just gets a bit less inefficient at motorway speeds. It remains a very inefficient machine by comparison with an EV.
a EV also makes it really obvious where the energy is going and what the impact on range is. with ICE you generally work out the headling figures (ie MPG) after the fact)
It remains a very inefficient machine by comparison with an EV.
Although to make a true efficiency comparison with an ICE you need to include the efficiency of the power station generating the electricity.
No, just a cost per mile to power it at different speeds.
I find loads of short trips in winter hammers the remaining range estimate. You’re heating several cubic metres of space from scratch over and over again, so overall power consumption is very high for so few miles. Worse, some cars like the ID.3 assume every trip will be a long one and start heating the battery each time too – better for efficiency over a long distance but again just wasted heat/energy on a short one.
ICE wastes so much energy to heat that it’s never a problem.
It's not so much the heating of the cabin that is causing that much of a power draw, for that aspect you can pre heat the car while plugged in so you come to the car heated up with 100% battery and the car then only has to maintain which uses less power.
The heating of the battery is what causes the massive power consumption on cold short journeys, for longer ones the power consumption is less noticeable as once the battery is up to heat the consumption is relatively low to keep the car moving and so the average power consumption increases compared to short journeys.
It's not just the ID3 or other VAG cars that heat the battery at low temps, all EVs do it, the point at which the battery heating kicks in differs. I think for VAG cars its around 8 degrees or below, but they're going to change it to 0 degrees. Manufacturers can't make a car that will know if its a short journey or not (unless you press a button but what if you change your mind and forget to tell the car) so to protect the battery they have to have the battery heated up if its cold to protect it and increase its lifespan.
How many long trips have you done? I’ve only charged away from home twice because COVID obvs.
4 trips over 200 miles so far since Dec 2021. Theoretically should be able to do it on a single charge. I have let it go down to 8%, but knowing that highway patrol like to close the M5 in the southwest at the blink of a hat , then I prefer a bit more in the tank just in case. There are a few chargers within 30 miles of home if I need a little top up. The ionity chargers at Cullompton are handy for a quick 10 minute charge. In the time it takes to pop in for a pee and a quick stretch of the legs, I can get up to 75 miles back in. Its 40 miles to home from there.
Molgrips – do you have a charger close to home you can bail out to if it gets too tight?
Yeah, ish. About 25 miles away on the motorway, and another couple off the route a bit. But I can make a call from an hour out - or I can slow down to give myself more of a buffer.
I wish someone would test all EVs to actual flat, so we know what buffer we have.
There’s a small Tesla Supercharger site 8 miles North of me, right on the Main Road to anywhere. When they open them up it will be the perfect bolt hole
Although to make a true efficiency comparison with an ICE you need to include the efficiency of the power station generating the electricity.
True and it has been done. One needs to consider inefficiencies, emissions and other resource use etc right through mining, refining, fuel transport, power station electricity generation, grid losses etc etc. And manufacture of the car. On UK electricity I've yet to see an analysis (except silly ones where they compare a big EV with a fiesta, or some other bit of bad maths) where the emissions of an ICE car aren't quite a lot worse than EV. Efficiency is closely related, with gas power stations having pretty high efficiency (and only being part of the energy mix alongside mostly lower carbon sources), ICE cars in the region of 30-40% IIRC.
I wouldn't claim EVs are fabulous for the environment or without their inefficiencies, but on both points they are less bad than ICE.
Not all EV but it's a guide:
I wouldn’t claim EVs are fabulous for the environment or without their inefficiencies, but on both points they are less bad than ICE.
As at 11:35am we were running 5% coal on the grid so all EVs currently plugged in are running on coal.
ICE cars in the region of 30-40% IIRC
Assuming that figure is true UK gas turbine stations ran at 48.3% in 2020 so not a massive step change.
Bottom line is we still have a long way to go before we can decarbonise the grid.
Bottom line is we still have a long way to go before we can decarbonise the grid.
but the benefit is that when we do, everyones existing electric cars become decarbonated.
but the benefit is that when we do
2050 is the current target.
Re the climate change impacts; if you know the long term average CO2 equivalent value per KWh (delivered)of the UK grid, can you calculate the approx CO2 emissions per mile from the miles/KWh figure for any given car?
ICE cars in the region of 30-40% IIRC
Assuming that figure is true UK gas turbine stations ran at 48.3% in 2020 so not a massive step change.
But coal and gas combined are (now, in daylight) only making up 29.4% of our electricity mix. Wind and solar are doing 39.5%.
So comparing ICE cars to gas power stations isn't really a fair comparison. Gas is only one part of the mix.
if you know the long term average CO2 equivalent value per KWh (delivered)of the UK grid, can you calculate the approx CO2 emissions per mile from the miles/KWh figure for any given car?
Yes, it's been calculated and discussed loads, a few times on this very thread I think.
So comparing ICE cars to gas power stations isn’t really a fair comparison. Gas is only one part of the mix.
Yes it is. Nearly everything that consumes electricity has no other alternative, but anyone who buys an EV also could have bought an ICE so as it's an incremental demand on the grid the use should be attributed to the most polluting part of generation.
I'm using an extreme example but it is an important factor that people should be aware of and I'm not sure they are.
...and people are. I, for example, have a green tariff which states that profits from my tariff go to developing further renewable energy generators. As a result, I pay more for my power.
Also - typical car thermal efficiency is 25-35% - it's only very large, low revviing diesel engines and high technology petrol engines which generate above 40%. An F1 Engine peaks at 51%, but is usually at around 48% average and that's using both hybrid energy energy and kinetic energy recovery, neither of which is present in your typical car...though the kinetic part is included in some hybrids and petrol cars.
A combined cycle gas turbine electric plant will be closer to 60% at peak efficiency at 55-57% average around the world. Coal will peak at 47-48%.
No matter which way you look at it, cradle to gravel, in-use emissions, CO2 repayment, etc, EVs for personal cars are better.
2050 is the current target.
fair point, its not a finger snap instant change to get to zero. But each incrimental improvement is also an improvement to all EVs.
If that 5% coal drops to 4% coal, thats a 20% reduction in coal emmisions "from" EVs. Thats the same as everyone in an ICE going from 40mpg to 50mpg, or all commuters cutting to a 4 day week. Which would be considered huge.
As at 11:35am we were running 5% coal on the grid so all EVs currently plugged in are running on coal.
Or to put it another way, 95% not from coal.
Thing is, if we don't transition to EVs then we will never have decarbonised personal transport. If we all drove EVs now, then changes to the electricity generation mix would reduce ALL our carbon emissions without us having to do anything else.