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My EV3 is FWD and the back end gets incredibly mucky.
I did wonder if improved aerodynamics (to improve efficiency) might be reducing the area of low pressure behind that car that created drag but sucked the crap away. But improving aerodynamics has been a thing on ICE cars for years and anyway the EV3 is designed like a brick.
It is odd when you consider how many fancy gadgets are on the car (and how many systems rely on a good picture from the cameras) that they haven't designed a system for keeping the camera clean yet. But maybe these cars are designed in places where the roads aren't covered in crap for months each year.
You just get used to giving it a little rub with your finger whenever you go round the back. So to speak.
I do that, but by the time I've driven a few miles on rural roads it is mucky again 😫
First world problem and only an issue when the weather is properly mucky, but surprising that they didn't think of it when the rest of the car seems so well thought out. I even like the ironing board in the middle, but I accept I'm in a small minority on that one 😀
The best solution i've seen to the dirty camera issue is on Mercs and some VWs - the camera is hidden underneath the boot badge and opens up when activated, then hides away once driving along again.
Lots of VWs have a washer jet for the rear camera - some work every time you wash the rear screen, others you have to be in reverse then wash the rear screen to trigger it.
even like the ironing board in the middle, but I accept I'm in a small minority on that one
jolly handy for the occasional roll, lorne sausage and onions, with red of course..
The best solution i've seen to the dirty camera issue is on Mercs and some VWs - the camera is hidden underneath the boot badge and opens up when activated, then hides away once driving along again.
Great for rear view cameras but useless when the cameras have multiple functions. I suspect it'll die out as a feature because of that (and the cost of the mechanism).
I posted on this thread a good while ago. I just bought a 2nd hand VW ID4 and so far it's been great. As others say, I haven't found charging an issue. Just plan ahead and look on the various apps (mostly use Electroverse) and you'll find something convenient. The car has a factory fitted tow bar which is a rare option. Not used it yet as I sold my bike rack a while ago but I'll look out for another once my old Octavia VRS has gone and I've re-couped some cash!
Just had my home charger fitted and commissioned so I can play about with that, it's an Ohme jobby I got through Octopus. I need to do some sums on the tariff now but I expect I'll switch to Go Intelligent as I think it'll suit since we're out all day during the week.
So far, happy I made the switch.
Just back from looking at potential new EV options and the Kia EV3 was on my list. Like many people I was put off by the ‘ironing board’ in the EV3 but it has been removed from new models. The car now has a more traditional centre console with a lidded cubby and an open storage bin.
Now I have to decide between an EV3, EV4, Cupra Born and Skoda Elroq…
In practical use, the ironing board central slider is actually quite useful. I think the only downside is that it takes out a closed cubby hole option, only an issue if you carry so much junk that it won’t fit in glovebox, which I don’t.
But how can comparisons be made? I doubt there are many EV's still running that are 24 years old. I doubt that there are many EVs that are well under 10K. I doubt that there are many EVs used and have maybe another 20 years on them. I doubt that there are many EVs out there that can be maintained at home. I actually think that we should be banning all new cars if we are truly worried about the world but that won't work when people want to drive to play. Ride the bike?
As for charging. No, I won't hang around to charge. And join a queue. I fuel then go. But then I refuse to use a motorway service station for anything other than a slash. Haven't seen many charging station on a back road in mid Wales or the Scottish Highlands
I doubt there are many EV's still running that are 24 years old.
My mate was running a Citroën Saxo until last year when he replaced it with a second-hand Zoe. He'd replaced the battery pack with a lithium one. His main difficulty was charging, it was domestic plug.
Check out the price of Zoe 50s, they're under 10k in France.
ICE engines rarely last 20 years on average mileage and EV batteries will be dead at about the same mileages that good ICEs last, and much better than wet belts, most turbos, valve trains, clutches, piston rings... . Modern ICEs have a high specific output and don't last.
I'll let you know how I get on maintaining at home if anything packs up.
As for charging. No, I won't hang around to charge.
Neither would I. Just like I wouldn’t hang around waiting for my mobile phone to charge. I plug it in when I’m not using it and it charges while I do something else. Same with the EV. Driving somewhere just to refuel and standing around while the tank fills? No thanks.
As for charging. No, I won't hang around to charge. And join a queue.
I've been driving my EV 18 months. I've never had to queue for a charger in that time, and I've only spent time waiting for it to charge a couple of times, the rest it's either been home charged or I've plugged in somewhere and then gone and had a wee and a coffee or done a spot of sightseeing or shopping.
The times I've had to wait... were on holiday and where I wake up far earlier than the family I went to the out of town Tesla bank with a thermal cup of coffee and my Kindle on my phone, and sat and read a book for 45 mins which is what I'd have done if I'd stayed at the house.
I've done best part of 20k miles in those 18 months, at 40mpg that would be 500 gallons = about 2250 ltrs = 40 full tanks. I know it's only about 5 mins a time but I'd have spent more time stood by the side of my car fueling and going than I have on waiting for charging, and I'd have still needed the breaks and wees and coffees on top of those 3+ hours of fueling.
As for charging. No, I won't hang around to charge. And join a queue. I fuel then go. But then I refuse to use a motorway service station for anything other than a slash. Haven't seen many charging station on a back road in mid Wales or the Scottish Highlands
You could use any waiting time to just read your Daily Mail
Madame Edukator would never drive through the night before we had an EV. She got tired and stopped. Since we've had the EV she takes a obligatory nap of 40 mins every 2 to 3 hours and drives on feeling fine. This saves the hassle of finding a hotel. When we travel together I used do all the night driving, now she offers to take over so we both get a half way reasonable nights sleep. Travelling at night means no charger queues and much less traffic: save about half an hour in Toulouse 20mins in Lyon and hours in some places such as the Tarentaise. We spend more time on the road but arrive feeling fresher.
I doubt there are many EV's still running that are 24 years old. I doubt that there are many EVs that are well under 10K.
These type of statements collapse when you realise that there's also not many ICE cars running that are 24 years old!
OF COURSE there ARE ICe cars that are >24 years old... but these are the exception not the rule.
I personally, and know MANY people, who've chopped in or scrapped ICE cars that are <20years old because they fail catastrophically.
Only recently we had to 'bin' a VW beetle that was about 19 years old because the head gasged/engine block cracked.
A pal has had a MUCH younger Octavia that needed LOTS of work to the engine, so shopped it in.
You need to be really careful about the role of 'survivorship bias' with statements like "will your EV still be raced around goodwood at revival in a million years time...." because not ALL cars of that era are still on the road. in fact, very few cars with 'old style' number plated are still on the road~!
DrP
Just got a frontera to replace Citroen - for literally daft money. This one will be kept for 2 years (stellantis I know.)
Only a 44kWh battery. But enough for the knocking about drives.
First impressions - nice and compact but large at the same time. Not as refined as my grandland. But a good feature set with buttons for heating. Wireless charging and wireless AA.
£202 a month. Zero deposit. And got a nice blue colour with no added cost to get it early.
Extended range looks a better option obviously if a deal pops up.
We bought a 71 plate 29k miles 42kwh leaf for less than 10k last year for my mum.
As someone who has had and still has a number of old vehicles . (40 year old / 20 year old and 10 year old) …..
those cars don't just "survive" someone's spent money/time on them to maintain them to survive - most cars are ****ed at 10-14 year through mostly corrosion related issues be it body or wiring but also turbos/Clutches/Emissions control. - anyone betting on car lasting more than 14 years without decent sized bills is a fool.
That leafs been charged once in a public charger.
Off the back of driving that - We bought MrsT-R a E-rifter in january . 74 plate - facelift 52kw- 12k miles - 5 grand less than the EXACT same vehicle and spec with the shitty 1.5 Diesel they come with.
Again we have charged that once on a public charger - in order to understand how public chargers work.
So far I've been impressed with both.
as for repairing it at home - do you repair your own engine at home ? i repair everything but i do draw the line at engine rebuilds - i just swap em out. - everything else on the EV - all the suspension , the brakes , the steering - no different to a current ICE car . why cant you repair those at home ? Id be quite confident to swap out an EV battery on the drive - certainly in the vehicles I've bought - but i do check what's involved in maintainance before i buy - hence i didn't buy a cheap etron as i was advised to on here....
Madame Edukator would never drive through the night before we had an EV. She got tired and stopped. Since we've had the EV she takes a obligatory nap of 40 mins every 2 to 3 hours and drives on feeling fine. This saves the hassle of finding a hotel. When we travel together I used do all the night driving, now she offers to take over so we both get a half way reasonable nights sleep. Travelling at night means no charger queues and much less traffic: save about half an hour in Toulouse 20mins in Lyon and hours in some places such as the Tarentaise. We spend more time on the road but arrive feeling fresher.
I don't really understand what this has to do with an EV? Your madame could have just stopped for a nap when driving an ICE car and the trip would have been the same.
Or am I missing something? Would she refuse to drive an ICE car whereas she drives an EV? It seems like the addition of stopping for regular naps is the thing that has changed?
There are a lot of comments like this; circumstances that people apply to driving EVs that could have been done in an ICE car, but somehow because it's an EV it is given as an advantage.
Normally it's something like "we drive everywhere at 60 now (presumably to get better range), barely get where we are going any later but it is soooo much more relaxing", or "we feel so much more refreshed as we stop every 90mins or so, whereas in an ICE vehicle we'd be knackered after 4 hours of solid driving". Things you could have just done in an ICE vehicle too.
Just got a frontera to replace Citroen - for literally daft money.
Got any details? My Wife keeps banging on about getting rid of her 2 litre diesel Ibiza. £202/month sounds ideal. What mileage limit is that deal? And what range does a 44kWh battery get you?
Edit .
I am now receiving adverts and promo literature for the new Kia EVan. It looks pig ugly, like something the future rejected for being too boxy, but the load area is large for the size and the range is not terrible (300km) for a van.
I see no reason to buy one (because the Dispatch still works well), but I might take one for a test drive.
Got any details?
Go to leasing.com and search using whatever criteria fits. Frontera 24 months, 5k miles PA, 1 month initial payment currently £172.85 per month.
There are a lot of comments like this; circumstances that people apply to driving EVs that could have been done in an ICE car, but somehow because it's an EV it is given as an advantage.
I think the point they are making is that the extra time needed to charge en route in an EV can actually be put to use. Kinda like a 'forced break' that they actually realised is beneficial for them as well!
DrP
Exacly DrP. I recntly did the Alps trip in an ICE again having got used to doing it in a EV. It was quite hard to resist the temptation to press on but the EV had taught me how beneficial breaks were so I stopped regularly, dozed or went for a walk and the journey went well.
There are a lot of comments like this; circumstances that people apply to driving EVs that could have been done in an ICE car, but somehow because it's an EV it is given as an advantage.
I see what you are saying and I'm sure there is a bit of that going on. My case is kind of the opposite though. Being the analytical fellow I am, I spent many months before getting the EV trying to work out whether one would work for me. Part of that involved analysing the journeys I took in my ICE car to see how long I actually stopped rather than how fast I could theoretically do the journey. This involved a fair few examples of journeys up to 500 miles each way that we'd done over the previous year or so. What surprised me was that, for all of the real-world ICE car journeys, we actually stopped for much longer than would be necessary to charge a modern EV anyway (toilet breaks, coffee, lunch, walking dogs etc). So, it's not that the EV is making me change how I drive and I'm now claiming to like that, but that it doesn't require me to do anything different to what I was doing in the ICE car anyway.
Full disclosure, I don't stop in exactly the same places that I stopped in when I was driving the ICE car but the basic principle is the same; drive until I feel like stopping then look for somewhere convenient to stop. The difference is that I now use the in-car navigation system to pick somewhere with free (i.e. unoccupied) chargers rather than defaulting to the fairly hideous motorways stops of old. But that is something I could have done in the ICE car too.
YMMV of course and so might mine in the past. When I was younger I did driver for longer between breaks and those breaks were shorter. But it's me that has slowed down not the EV that has made me slow down.
Has anyone got any data/experience of the effect on range of carrying two bikes on the roof? I was planning on fitting a tow bar but the pricing seems to be about as stable as POTUS.
I put two bikes on the roof of the erifter for a 6 mile journey every Saturday to allow my wife and daughter to rise to a class from when I park at park run.
The resultant w/mile are ****ing horrendous. I can rinse 15% on a cold day without driving like smurfhat.
So driving from Worcestershire to Aviemore in late December with 2 bikes on the roof is probably a bad idea...
I use a towbar rack on my EV3. It drops the real life range by about 10% with one gravel bike on it.
i only put the rack on if there is more than just me in the car. Otherwise it’s seats down and bike goes in flat with both wheels on
So driving from Worcestershire to Aviemore in late December with 2 bikes on the roof is probably a bad idea...
I used to carry my bike on a roof-carrier on my Ford Puma - it wasn’t the most frugal car as regards fuel consumption, but with the bike it took a huge hit, and fuel was a lot cheaper twenty years ago! From around 35 to the gallon to 25! 😖
It isn't a great idea, but it isn't bad as there are plenty charging points along the way.
3 CX bikes in our ID7 has quite a hit on the range. Just managed Swindon and back (from Southampton) on 80% charge. That was almost entirely high speed roads. I looked at fitting a tow bar but cost is high, something like £1.5-2k, then I'd need a new rack as well (big enough to take 4 bikes). At that point I decided it wasn't worth it, the charge for the trip advice was all cheap at home and we rarely do trips further than that with all the bikes. Would need to do at least 40 trips requiring a decent extra public charge (£50) before it was worth the lowest tow and rack cost.
Got any details? My Wife keeps banging on about getting rid of her 2 litre diesel Ibiza. £202/month sounds ideal. What mileage limit is that deal? And what range does a 44kWh battery get you?
Went into the local dealer and they beat the deal of leasing.com and because it's a dealer there was no admin fee.
That's an ultimate model - there are the cheaper Design and GS versions. Wanted heated seats and steering wheel.
Not massive miles but looking like around 160 in current temps. There is an extended range too which is 55 kWh I think.
6000 miles but extra is only 6pppm.
No deposit on that either just a first payment of 202.
(The front visibility from the Frontera is excellent, as is the rear window.)
(You see government schemes are exactly the way to make things like this work. Government spends a bit of cash and it helps subsidise a purchase / rental.)
Great deal @Rone 💪
Thanks. Actually it's all on my gf - having had a rough time with the Citroen (just one of those cursed cars - rear ended in the first week of ownership, numerous glitches and then died completely etc.)
She didn't want to deal with a 3rd party lease company again. Because you've got 3 people involved when something goes wrong (the dealer, the leasing broker, the manufacturer.) So when there's a problem out of warranty you are on your own and no one wants to help.
So she walked into the local dealership who were a bit frosty (they want to do PCP) at first - but then delivered the perfect deal and colour (colours are extra.) and then got it here within 2 weeks!
So don't forget going into your dealers who can sometimes match your best online deal without an admin fee too.
Vauxhalled up. The Frontera is not a small car - good boot. But does feel compact somehow. Here it at the side of the grandland. I'm not sure about the current trend for black roofs.
You probably already know this but the Frontera is built on the same platform as the Citroen c3 air cross under the stelantis banner.
Hopefully it's a better built vehicle this time round.
You probably already know this but the Frontera is built on the same platform as the Citroen c3 air cross under the stelantis banner.
Hopefully it's a better built vehicle this time round.
Yeah it's a calculated risk - but we're in warranty and it's from a dealer (which means courtesy car and their problem) - and I know they've switched some parts about since 2022.
@nixie was that journey to Swindon bikes on roof? I think that's what you meant.
It's the roof rack/towing piece that's still holding me back on EVs although Mrs GD is now starting to look for one so some progress.
That tow bar price is about double the cost of the last one I had fitted to a modern ICE car too 😭
I've got a Superb at the minute. I can just about get three road bikes in it with three people and some riding gear but it's a lot of faff. I suspect the ID7 is smaller internally.
Yes it was. That's a winter trip as well so expect it was worse than the same in the summer.
I think I could get 3 road bikes and 3 people in the ID7 tourer . The boot is a little narrower I think that our golf was but a bit longer (not as square on the boot lid which slightly impacts space above the parcel shelf). It has split rear seats and the is acres of room in the back row (when just 2 of us race I put the CX bikes in with rear wheels on and the fronts in the rear foot well). 2 bikes 2 people no problem at all.
I much prefer driving it and being in it than the old golf.
Frontera Ultimate, 24 months, 6000 miles, no fee , no up front payment. £201 on leasing.com (they must have seen this thread!!)
Kia EV5 here in Perth. So far really impressed, it's like a ruddy spaceship. We got the Long Range model so it's 550km range and the colds less of a worry here. Charge at home via the solar as much as possible as well so very economical to run so far. The real test will be a trip away as that's automatically long so we shall see. Having a toddler means semi regular stops are often needed anyways.
oops double post
Has anyone got any data/experience of the effect on range of carrying two bikes on the roof? I was planning on fitting a tow bar but the pricing seems to be about as stable as POTUS.
Yes - it will eat away at the battery...but you can massively counter this by driving at 65mph rather than 70. And I found the difference in arrival time was neglible.
DrP