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If there was a car to aim for, or steer clear of, what would my STW EV friends tell me?
We've been very pleased with our e-Niro. It's comfortable, well equipped, spacious, and very efficient. Its rapid charging is slower than some other models but the range is so good that it's rarely a problem. You just have to wait a few minutes longer at a public charger.
They are just aids. They aren't going to distract you and allow you to drive off the road etc. rather the opposite.
I think what insurance companies fear are the words ' i crashed because the lane control dud something weird' after 'it's not my fault'.
Which ones do you particularly not like ? Im not fond of the lane assistant but as you know, hold down the button for three seconds
The USA has a road safety record similar to India. Poorly trained drivers, stunning inattentiveness, prolific phone use, higher speeds, narrow lanes, HGVs doing 90mph plus, and a ban on some advanced driving aids that we get in Europe while randomly allowing things like FSD.
To be honest Tesla have had this coming for their naming conventions and marketing strategy, but ultimately the blame still lies with the person behind the wheel who wasn't paying attention.
Got our first EV today. Previous gen Kona Electric. It was that or a Nero, Nero was larger but meh. £14k for a 25k mile car with tons of kit seems like a bargain.
Once more people realise this and actually follow the reasoning to its logical conclusion, the problem around FSD (and driving generally) in cities will miraculously solve itself...Might have been quicker to walk (or cycle) though as the video mostly seemed to consist of watching other cars flying past or disappearing off into the distance.
ultimately the blame still lies with the person behind the wheel who wasn't paying attention.
not leagally, it belongs with the software developers. Any car with active assit can self drive to a degree, its just Musk has spouted nonsense about his.
they've got an out of court settlement department.
Does anyone have any experience with the E-Combo Life or other Stalantis variants? I'm looking for a small biking van, we have a Passat we can use for long journeys, so an ev could be perfect for 120 mile trips to Wales and the like for biking. There are almost new 2024 52KWh XL versions available for £17000-18000 that seem like bargains, although way higher than the £10000 I was thinking of spending on a 1.6D Berlingo, but inline with a half decent Caddy Maxilife which is another option.
not leagally, it belongs with the software developers. Any car with active assit can self drive to a degree
No, I think it depends how you phrase it. If you call it 'driving assistance' then it's just that. You drive, it helps. If you call it 'full self driving' then that implies it can drive itself. Even if the small print says you're responsible, then some jurisdictions will take the name of the service into account because of what it suggests.
Finally took the Buzz on a trip where we needed to charge away from home. 1300 miles from the Highlands to Pembrokeshire to the Lakes, to home and then even furtherer into the Highlands. Charging was indeed a non-issue. As with every petrol car we've ever had we tended to stop every 2-3 hours.
Paid the £10 to Ionity for cheaper charging and mostly used those. Was amazed by the ease of use and speed of charging, the car was always back up to 100% before we'd finished our coffee and loo breaks. Even in the depths of Scotland, the slower chargers with 45 minute limits still did what they needed to do. I also liked getting a top up when we were stopped at supermarkets. Made me feel better about how much time we spent in them!
During one charge we walked to a nearby petrol station to get some sweets. Littlemissbunk scoffed at the losers having to stand by their cars to fill up.
I had a chat with posties who were using the EV Berlingo/Partner and a lot weren't getting 100 miles out them. Seems a real shame as I really wanted one to replace the diesel Partner we had. Going from almost 700 miles to possibly 100 just wasn't workable for me.
@thebunk sounds like a good vacation. What’s the real world range you’re getting from the buzz?
I’m still really interested in this bus, you don’t see many about, where I thought they’d be super popular.
Few weeks later with the Grandland EV.
It's a fantastic car. Everything going well and working well. Averaging about 3.8-4 m/kWh at 73 kWh battery capacity. So about 280 miles ish. 300 miles definitely within reach. There's a 93kWh coming soon for 400 miles.
Can't make my mind up about the regen though seems to do quite a bit but then people talk about coasting doing more for range.
The suspension is poor though. Very disappointed with that. Less of an issue on cruise speed roads. Can live with it.
On next v9 Eon 12-7am at 6.7p p kW fixed 12 months.
(I think that package is now 12-6am.)
Boot is good, deep but not wide. Need to try a bike next. Shame it doesn't have roof rails. As that will mean considerable investment in a new rack set up for me.
Can't make my mind up about the regen though seems to do quite a bit but then people talk about coasting doing more for range.
A lot of people don't understand this properly. The car will always use regen braking as much as it can (of course, why would it not?) when you slow down. Pressing the brake pedal just indicates how much you want to slow down, the car uses regen. Only if you stamp on the pedal does it use friction brakes - or at very low speeds. The regen setting just determines how much regen is applied when you lift off the accelerator. So if you drive the same way, you get the same amount of regen regardless. If you coast a lot and brake minimally then yes, you'll be efficient, but you can achieve the exact same effect with the accelerator pedal alone if you drive in the same smooth manner.
The exception to this is I think the BMW i3 (or at least earlier models) or maybe Tesla, it's not clear.
Yes, regen levels have very little (if anything) to do with efficiency and are really just about how you want the car to feel. There are lots of different ways that automatic regen can be implemented. Some cars give lots of choices, some not so much, but none of them (as far as I know) do anything that you couldn't just do with your foot. So if it has any effect on efficiency it is really just down to whether you or the car is the better driver 😀
My EV3, for example, offers 4 levels of regen (which I can control with paddles). For each level I can also choose whether I want the car to come to a complete stop or just a "creep". So, that's 8 different options. On top of that there is a rather fancy auto setting that reacts to the car/bike in front and also uses the GPS data to apply the regen as you approach bends, roundabouts, junctions etc. That really does allow for driving quite long distances using just one pedal. But it still doesn't do anything you couldn't just do yourself and whether you want the car to apply the brakes for you or whether you prefer to do it yourself is just down to personal preference.
Just had my first properly rubbish experience with my EV (Lexus RZ) - I have always known that the range is a bit crap, but we went to Manchester airport (72 miles away). The battery was at 100% when we set off from home, and at 54% when we set back off from the airport two weeks later (and I drove very steadily all the way). There were four + luggage in the car, but that's still pretty crap. On the way back we stopped at Hartshead Moor to recharge it when it was at 20% and looking unlikely to get us home (so that's <140 miles from a full charge). At the stop there were two chargers outside the services, both being used and I was told that one was charging really slowly. There were a further two chargers outside a Starbucks, again both being used and someone else waiting. Then of course there were a whole bank of Tesla Only chargers, none being used. So, all in all, a pretty crappy experience – I am pretty surprised at the lack of charging facilities (I ended up going somewhere else to top up).
And, with a mix of urban and quite a few longer trips over 11,000 miles, we have got an average of 2.8kwh.
I like driving electric, but I am seriously considering going back to and ICE next time.
do anything that you couldn't just do with your foot.
I'm not convinced about this. After we all chatted about this before I've been doing some investigating both online and practical experimenting. And chatting to a Kia mechanic.
With my car at any rate, if you touch the brake pedal it always uses an element of actual friction braking. It will add a good dollop of regen too - but there is always some friction braking. So if you drove a country lane with the regen levels set at the very lowest level your car will allow and approached a corner, lifted and put your foot on the brake pedal some of the speed will be washed off and turned into heat. If you have a higher regen level set and as you approached the corner started to gently life you will be at your corner speed all on regen. You will need to lift earlier and will have lost 'time' if that matter to you but I still think it's more efficient.
Ultimately it's probably mostly down to driving style. If you drive it like you stole it approaching corners fast, slow at the last minute and accelerate away hard you are going to eat battery much faster than slowing with modest regen only and accelerate more progressively that will make more difference than anything.
In other news I've discovered the limitations of adaptive cruise control - if the road is a bit gently winding with corners you don't need to brake for at sane speeds the adaptive cruise control sees the car you have been following in front disappear as it turns and starts to accelerate when you don't want to.
we have got an average of 2.8kwh
That seems quite low. How much do you think that's the car, your driving style or the terrain you drive in?
I've noticed quite a difference in some of my trips. I live rurally at about 200m above sea level. My nearest town is by the sea about 8 miles away. On the way in it's pretty much impossible to get my efficiency below 4.5 miles/kWh. On the way home 2.5 miles/kWh is normal.
From an efficiently perspective it oddly fells far more like riding a (road) bike. In an ICE you hardly really notice small altitude charges or headwinds but on a bike it is fundamental. Same now in an EV.
With my car at any rate, if you touch the brake pedal it always uses an element of actual friction braking.
That's surprising. Not sure why it would do that. Mine has a "brake cleaning" function because the friction brakes are used so rarely they can get rusty. Maybe it is something to do with trying to blend the regen and friction brakes more smoothly or something.
I've done various tests with the (9) different regen options on mine and can't detect any consistent effect on efficiency beyond the obvious one that slowing down too much and then having to accelerate again is less efficient. If I can be bothered then I can always beat any of the regen modes by turning regen off completely (level zero) and just being really careful with braking, but in practice I'll usually have some kind of regen on just because it is easier to drive and I have a big enough battery that I don't really care about the odd tenth of a mile per kWh in efficiency.
That seems quite low. How much do you think that's the car, your driving style or the terrain you drive in?
The car is notoriously inefficient - on motorways I rarely go over the speed limit. Over the 11,000 miles we have done in it, I'd say it has been a fair mix of urban, rural and motorway driving.
Just had my first properly rubbish experience with my EV (Lexus RZ) - I have always known that the range is a bit crap, but we went to Manchester airport (72 miles away). The battery was at 100% when we set off from home, and at 54% when we set back off from the airport two weeks later (and I drove very steadily all the way). There were four + luggage in the car, but that's still pretty crap. On the way back we stopped at Hartshead Moor to recharge it when it was at 20% and looking unlikely to get us home (so that's <140 miles from a full charge). At the stop there were two chargers outside the services, both being used and I was told that one was charging really slowly. There were a further two chargers outside a Starbucks, again both being used and someone else waiting. Then of course there were a whole bank of Tesla Only chargers, none being used. So, all in all, a pretty crappy experience – I am pretty surprised at the lack of charging facilities (I ended up going somewhere else to top up).
And, with a mix of urban and quite a few longer trips over 11,000 miles, we have got an average of 2.8kwh.
I like driving electric, but I am seriously considering going back to and ICE next time.
There are a couple of different things to unpack there. First, the issue of the range of the car and whether it is enough for your needs or not. Personally I don't think expressing range as a number is that useful. It varies so much with weather, terrain and driving style anyway, but in reality it is binary. Either the car has enough range that you never have to stop for the car (i.e. you stop when you want to anyway) or it doesn't. Once it does, having more range doesn't really gain you anything useful (you are just lugging round extra weight "just in case"). But obviously there are lots of EVs with a much longer range than your Lexus.
Second is the issue of being able to find a charger. Lots of modern EVs will tell you the occupancy (and power) of chargers along your route, so you can pick a convenient place to stop where you know you will be able to charge. If not then you can use apps (like ABRP, ZapMap etc) though Carplay (or AA). They aren't perfect, but are getting better all the time.
Finally, that efficiency does seem low, but I don't know where you live, how you drive or much about the Lexus. It could just be than an EV doesn't suit your needs though. They don't need to be the answer for everybody.
It's a fantastic car.And
The suspension is poor though.Does not really compute!
Because all cars are compromises of something and everything is great apart from the suspension.
Pros
Space
Comfort
Controls
Build quality
Features (front window deicer) mirrors that tilt down when reversing.
Good range and power is good.
Steering is good
Seats
Soundsystem
Android integration / hud / wireless AA.
Leccy boot that's a good size.
It's well sound proofed inside.
Cons so far.
Suspension isn't up to my kodiaq and other VAG stuff.
beyond the obvious one that slowing down too much and then having to accelerate again is less efficient.
I'm not going to say that's user error.....but that's user error! 😀
I find with some subtly on the throttle foot even with the regen on maximum it allows you can be totally in control of the rate of slowing from super gentle to brisk. If you are very digital about it and just lift your foot completely off I can see how this could be a thing. For me at least it's just become completely intuitive now and beyond an emergency or slowing the last couple of miles an hour to a complete stop, I never touch the brake pedal (this is 95% country lane driving).
I am pretty surprised at the lack of charging facilities
You didn't have a quick scout beforehand? It's certainly not often the case - every services I use has been rolling out chargers like no tomorrow - orginally they had two or three, now there's 20 or 30. On our holiday (sadly in the diesel) we stopped at Hopton Wood where there's 52 chargers! Ok so 20 are Tesla only, and it serves both directions but it's still a lot.
I like driving electric, but I am seriously considering going back to and ICE next time.
I don't want to pile on but your Lexus sounds terrible. Your solution is not returning to ICE, it's getting a much better car which is basically any other modern EV. 300 miles is standard these days for real world range in summer (provided you don't speed - don't speed in an EV unless you've got plenty of charge to spare). For that money you could get the new Mercedes CLA which has almost 500 miles. You can do far better than 140. Even my now ancient Ioniq 38 can reliably do 200 summer miles, and these are only about £8k used now.
Suspension isn't up to my kodiaq and other VAG stuff.
Did it come with massive wheels and tiny tyres? I've no idea why manufacturers spec these, they really slash range and are dreadful for comfort. Hyundai fit 20s but there is a secret factory option of 18s that they don't want to tell you about, and it's a far better size - because it's an option it doesn't count as a mod and they are available from dealers. However, this doesn't necessarily help you as after market wheels are a bit of a lottery and very expensive.
I'm not going to say that's user error.....but that's user error! 😀
That was kind of my point 😀
I said I can always beat the car, it's probably more accurate to say that I can get the same efficiency whatever level of regen I select. All that changes is how much I lift off the accelerator and how often I have to actually use the brake pedal. But, as far as I can tell, my car isn't doing anything clever. Changing the level of regen just changes the point in the travel of the accelerator that corresponds to coasting. On level zero lifting off completely is coasting and any braking requires use of the brake pedal. Level 3 and coasting is about one third of the way into the travel. Anything above that and the car is (regen) braking. But I've not found that any of the levels actually change the efficiency in any consistent way once I've got the hang of how to drive in that level. Usually I'm most efficient in whichever level I've been using most recently.
The exception is probably the auto mode where it can be hard to anticipate how much regen it will apply without knowing how sharp it thinks the bend will be. So in that mode it might brake a bit more than I wanted if I'm not quick enough and that can reduce efficiency a bit. But that mode is so easy to drive in that I often select it anyway.
But that mode is so easy to drive in that I often select it anyway.
same, I click it from LV2 to Smart Autoregen every time I start it. The only time I use any other mode is in stop start traffic when I switch it to one pedal mode (i-pedal 2).
The only time I use any other mode is in stop start traffic when I switch it to one pedal mode (i-pedal 2).
I've obviously not got the hand of i-pedal yet as I don't find it offers any advantage over auto, even in traffic. In auto, if the car in front stops then it will automatically brake so that I come to a halt behind the car. In i-pedal it just seems to apply a consistent amount of braking that may or may not be enough to stop me in time.
I don't drive much in heavy traffic though.
I click it from LV2 to Smart Autoregen every time I start it.
Doesn’t it remember which regen mode you’ve selected when you switch the car off?
In the EV6 all the regen modes except for ipedal are persistent. I leave it in Auto and it stays there until I change it.
I assumed the EV3 would be the same?
The EV3 is the opposite: i-pedal is now persistent but auto isn't. Doesn't really make sense, but it's all just software so could change in the next update.
Auto regen level is permanently selectable on my Hyundai and is actually the default.
Re iPedal, when I had it on my Nissan I only used it for queueing traffic as it was easier than moving my foot to different pedals to go and stop all the time - because it didn't have auto cruise control for queues.
Just taken delivery of our second id3. Last one did us 4 years of hassle free motoring.
This one has the 77kw battery and a few more toys. Can’t wait to take it for a proper drive (it’s ‘officially’ MrsL’s car so I haven’t had a go yet). 
^^ looks very smart in that colour 👍
In other news I've discovered the limitations of adaptive cruise control - if the road is a bit gently winding
I don't have EV, but i do have ACC in a Toyota hybrid. I'm sure it says, somewhere in the booklet or when you enable it via the button, words to the effect of "Only use this feature on the motorway" - presumably for just the reason you describe of vanishing target in front.
You didn't have a quick scout beforehand?
We did, but we thought we'd be okay as it was mid-week and late evening and they have four fast chargers – Zapmap wasn't showing any as not working properly and all four were showing as free when we checked about 10 minutes before arriving.
I don't want to pile on but your Lexus sounds terrible.
Yeah, as I say, I always knew about the range issue – but the lease cost (3 months down + 24 months at <£300) made it very appealing financially compared to other similar vehicles (we need a car with a larger boot to lug horse-related stuff around).
Did it come with massive wheels and tiny tyres?
Yes! So did the kodiaq - which exacerbates bumps. Makes it look better from a design perspective but yeah.
Feels like it's under-damped to me.
I'm not gonna sweat it's an 18 month lease at good price.
- sorry I read through everyone's comments about regen (and I've had EVs for a while but this is my first with paddles for adjustment.) - but did anyone here make clear the difference between coasting and having the stiffest level of regen? It definitely doesn't coast as far when level 3 regen on.
Surely not pressing a brake/heavy regen if you can help it does give you some coasting efficiency versus letting the car constantly slow down like you do around town?
Just curious cos it kind of makes sense to me.
Did it come with massive wheels and tiny tyres?
Yes! So did the kodiaq - which exacerbates bumps. Makes it look better from a design perspective but yeah.
Feels like it's under-damped to me.
I'm not gonna sweat it's an 18 month lease at good price.
- sorry I read through everyone's comments about regen (and I've had EVs for a while but this is my first with paddles for adjustment.) - but did anyone here make clear the difference between coasting and having the stiffest level of regen? It definitely doesn't coast as far when level 3 regen on.
Surely not pressing a brake/heavy regen if you can help it does give you some coasting efficiency versus letting the car constantly slow down like you do around town?
Just curious cos it kind of makes sense to me.
I must admit I’m feeling deeply grumpy about my ev at the moment! 6 week old ID7 GTX estate (which tbh I’ve loved - it’s a fantastic car other than this issue) is currently at the end of the first week in the garage trying to find an issue which is stopping fast charging and intermittently throwing red drivetrain faults which means you can’t move the thing.
I don’t really think charging infrastructure is the problem anymore. It seems the issues are more around the vehicles and support infrastructure.
Even if you accept that stuff happens and things fail, the dealer and brand ability to deal with it is really poor. VW assist came out and don’t have the right kit to plug in and read the fault codes on this vehicle. It’s been released for over a year. VW Teesside, a big dealership have only two master technicians who can work on EV’s, and are entirely reliant on central VW technical. So they’re stuck in a cycle of VW technical telling them to do things, them doing it, sending results back, and the cycle repeats.
Grrrr. First world problems I appreciate but rubbish.
I must admit I’m feeling deeply grumpy about my ev at the moment! 6 week old ID7 GTX estate (which tbh I’ve loved - it’s a fantastic car other than this issue) is currently at the end of the first week in the garage trying to find an issue which is stopping fast charging and intermittently throwing red drivetrain faults which means you can’t move the thing.
I don’t really think charging infrastructure is the problem anymore. It seems the issues are more around the vehicles and support infrastructure.
Even if you accept that stuff happens and things fail, the dealer and brand ability to deal with it is really poor. VW assist came out and don’t have the right kit to plug in and read the fault codes on this vehicle. It’s been released for over a year. VW Teesside, a big dealership have only two master technicians who can work on EV’s, and are entirely reliant on central VW technical. So they’re stuck in a cycle of VW technical telling them to do things, them doing it, sending results back, and the cycle repeats.
Grrrr. First world problems I appreciate but rubbish.
I think you're entirely right to be cross, you go with VW over some unknown Chinese brand for the dealer network, warranty etc.
You can (somewhat) understand the dealer not being fully staffed with EV capable techs yet but VW assist not having the correct code reader is an absolute joke.
Aside from this do you have any thoughts on the car, any spec options that are must haves etc? Do you think the GTX is worth it over the regular models?
Re the dealers I’d have more sympathy if this weren’t the 4/5th ID and they were fairly deep in to the electric roll out!
So the car is fantastic. I’ve consistently averaged 3.5 m/kwh with no careful driving whatsoever, even when 4 up with a full boot on the motorway at 75. It’s a 300+ mile real world motorway car even in GTX
GTX spec is lovely, super comfy seats, the ventilation is something I never knew I needed but love. HUD is remarkably useful and the sound system is really solid. The sat nav is excellent
It makes the whole thing even more irritating as I really like the car. It’s genuinely brilliant.
Surely not pressing a brake/heavy regen if you can help it does give you some coasting efficiency versus letting the car constantly slow down like you do around town?
Yes, of course - if you slow down and speed back up all the time you will use more energy than if you drive at constant speed. But the point is if you drive the same way i.e. slow down at the same rate at the same points, it makes no difference if you use regen 0 and press the brake pedal lightly or if you use regen 3 and don't press the brake pedal. At least, in theory - I can't confirm if the brakes aren't used slightly but I really don't think they are, at least in my car. If I turn off the car and press the pedal, it feels exactly the same as if the car's on which makes me think the first part of the pedal travel is just against a spring, so that it's not activating the hydraulic brakes. Press a bit more and you feel the hydraulic resistance just like an ICE.
Even if you accept that stuff happens and things fail, the dealer and brand ability to deal with it is really poor.
Agree. It seems many manufacturers have botched this with stories of clueless dealers all over the place. My local Hyundai couldn't work out what my problem was - they had to get someone from central office to look at it (which to be fair they did in a few days and correctly diagnosed it). However, it was a faulty brake module, which I'd have thought would have been obviously indicated with a code.
Looking at buying an EV at long last
40KwH leaf - 2020-2021 <10k miles C~£9k
Nipped through to Dundee today as there were no leafs in Aberdeen short of new ones or having one delivered from cinch etc.
Wanted mum to at least sit in and have a play.
We looked at a few. A tekna first of all. Then an acenta. - one of the <10kmile 9k cars .... Mum very quickly established she wanted a tekna (dad almost always bought high spec ex demos )
The tekna at nissan dealer was out of budget but 2.5k or .....25%....
Bit of digging and I found an unprepped off brand trade in at a local mg franchise - 2021 40kw tekna + limited with all the toys and the full Bose sound system. Battery showing the full 12 bar health in a grey with blue trim with 25k miles for £9800
The vauxhall just felt like it wasn't very well screwed together by comparison. The UI was clunky and it just didn't t feel like it was going to be a good car - no doubt it's the more technically advanced car but this is a car that's going to do 10-15 miles -with 50 miles once or twice a year. Mum just got her bus pass and plans to use that for long trips she doesn't like driving at the best of times.
Pick up the nissan next week after the get the windscreen changed to mums prescription.
@trail_rat, we've come round to liking our EV - which is a LEAF. Gen 2. larger battery for getting to central belt. First few journeys 2 years ago were pants, but coverage of charge points has upped and especially Broxden. Some bits are lower than I'd like, we have n-connecta which is lower spec than tekna. I think we may well get another, now - as will come with CCS so can plug into Teslas.
Get a ChargePlace Scotland card, and electro verse too.
You (and your mum) won't regret it I think. The Leaf is by far the most reliable EV ever made and as I found recently shopping for a replacement, has more or the same features as many much more costly cars out there now. Mine (Tekna 24KWH) is 11 years old and has 100k - unfortunately the puny suspension is now beginning to feel the weight of those miles and extra weight of the batteries so its starting to cost me but before 100k it was literally cost free apart from tyres which the solid rear axle eats.