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After 3 years from new they want £90 a year for the app, which I sort of understand as the mobile connection does cost them (why didn't they give it WiFi?).
Well if they gave it wifi they couldn't charge you £90 a year.
My ID7 has WiFi - maybe that’s the plan going forward? Be a bit annoying to lose the remote connectivity when out and about though. Seems not well thought through.
The ID3 comes with WiFi
@alex is that a 0% HP deal i.e will you own the car outright after 3 years?
Also, what range do you get on your current MG4 and can it take roofbars and a towbar (for bikes not towing)
@winston - 0% PCP so we'll get an option to buy, but with the subsidy/2nd hand value of EVs, we'll likely not buy it unless things change. Our view is we want to hire a car for the least money possible and PCP at 0% is a good way to do that.
It can take a towbar but it might be a factory only fit. Not sure about roof bars. We have another car I use for bike stuff. Our standard range gets around 180-200 miles in summer and maybe 140-150 in winter.
Fellow EV drivers - Martin Lewis wrote an interesting article about EV VED you might want to google and read 😉
(bit naughty but not really different to maxxing out an ISA allowance or whatever, is it?)
Fellow EV drivers - Martin Lewis wrote an interesting article about EV VED you might want to google and read 😉
(bit naughty but not really different to maxxing out an ISA allowance or whatever, is it?)
is this the ‘renew now and avoid luxury VED for a year’ ruse?
Done. Renewed in February because it was due. Renewed in March because next March will be new car time and £450 not paid next March, while minuscule compared with car costs, will be convenient.
A nice avoidance technique.
Not just luxury EV, all EV drivers should read it.
I don't particularly want to say it out loud, feels a bit wrong as a quasi-Gov employee, hence why suggesting you should google it. Then up to you if morally it's a loophole you can use.
Doesn't feel like a loophole any more than buying a house now to avoid stamp duty or filling up your car on budget day. There's a date when things change, you don't pay the tax prior to that.
I've been running a few numbers (I like numbers) while I try to decide whether I want to make the switch from my ICE car to a newer EV. I thought I'd share them here just in case anybody else found them useful (long shot 😀 ).
For those not following (and why would you) the saga; I started seriously looking at EVs around 6 months ago, quickly decided that a Tesla Model Y looked like the best option, then Elon went all nazi on me. Now I'm finding it hard to find anything else I actually want to switch to. Today's front runner is a Renault Scenic but much of what follows applies to most options I've considered.
A lot of stuff I read/watch assumes that you only drive <10K per year whereas I drive at least 20k most years and the numbers are a bit different then.
Fuel costs - If I assume an average consumption of 3mi/kwh (bit higher in summer, bit lower in winter) then, if I can do all my charging on a cheap (7p/kwh) overnight tariff it would cost me around £500 a year in "fuel". My (petrol) ICE car averages around 40 mpg (again a bit more in summer and a bit less in winter) so at current fuel prices that's around £3,000 a year on petrol. So, straight away we have around a £2,500/year saving. Yay.
Insurance costs - I think my current ICE car is insurance group 24. Anyway, it costs me around £550 a year to insure. Switching to the scenic (ig 32) would increase that by around £350 a year. A Tesla Model Y (ig 51) for comparison would increase it by around £850 a year. So I've lost a bit of that £2,500/year fuel saving in increased insurance, but not much (and the Tesla would cost around £500/year more for insurance).
Lease vs Buy - There are lots of people arguing that it is better to lease an EV but I can't make the numbers work for my usage. If I look at the scenic in iconic trim (which I'd want for the better stereo and sunroof) the best lease deals are still coming out around £7k/year (bit more for a shorter lease of course). I can buy a second hand one (less than a year old, less than 10K) for around £35k. So it only has to last five years for that to look like the better deal. I tend to keep a car for 7 years on average. So, assuming it lasted that long then even if it is scrap at that point I'm still £14k up on the lease costs. That's assuming repair costs aren't astronomical of course, which brings me to...
Repair Costs - This is obviously a tricky one. Lots of opinions available but very few hard numbers. There is a garage over in Zagreb of all places ( https://evclinic.eu/category/ev/) that seems to have compiled some figures on costs and reliability for various EVs. Nothing on the Scenic yet as it is too new, but looking at the Megane (same motors etc I think) they reckon a major service or replacement of a motor (which is much more likely than a battery failure by the way) could be required on average every 40,000 miles and Renault charge around £5.5k for a new motor. By comparison a Tesla Model Y motor should last on average 155,000 miles and only costs around £2k for a new motor. That £500/year saving on insurance isn't looking so good now😀
TLDR: By looking at different numbers you can make various options (ICE or different EVs) look more or less attractive but a few expensive repairs can easily change the numbers quite significantly. So, unless you've got a crystal ball it will always be a bit f a leap of faith.
Q for POLESTAR 2 drivers
I've rented one in Spain for 5 days, only ever briefly sat in one when considering purchase, is it a simple case of press the brake pedal, put in gear and go (assuming key is on your person)? or do I have to put the key somewhere etc?
Is there anything else I need to know /worth knowing?
Cheers
As you say press the brake pedal hard pull back on the gear selector to put in drive or hard push forward for reverse
When you stop press the Park button next to the gear selector and you are done nothing to turn off
Key can be anywhere in the car
Kick under the back bumper to open the boot but you need to have the key on you to do it otherwise use the boot switch
they reckon a major service or replacement of a motor (which is much more likely than a battery failure by the way) could be required on average every 40,000 miles and Renault charge around £5.5k for a new motor.
Blimey! I thought motors would last 'for ever'.
That's quite a chunk to add to the annual running cost [for some manufacturers] and definitely worth bearing in mind especially if buying used. 😬
that seems to have compiled some figures on costs and reliability for various EVs. Nothing on the Scenic yet as it is too new, but looking at the Megane (same motors etc I think) they reckon a major service or replacement of a motor (which is much more likely than a battery failure by the way) could be required on average every 40,000 miles and Renault charge around £5.5k for a new motor. By comparison a Tesla Model Y motor should last on average 155,000 miles and only costs around £2k for a new motor. That £500/year saving on insurance isn't looking so good now😀
Our last EV did 88k miles before we sold it. It needed nothing except a suspension boot and tyres. Yes it was serviced by BMW, but nothing was replaced, not even the brakes. certainly not a motor.
Our current EV has done 25k miles and has needed only tyres.
Yes, that "Average Reported EV Motor Failure" rate of 60,000Km for the Megane was a bit of a shock, but I've not been able to work out how they calculated that number so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. Of course, even if it were a true "population average" lots of owners will still report no problems. The fact that they refer to it as "reported" makes me wonder whether it might just be the average age of the motors that have been brought to them having failed, which is very different to the average for all cars as they presumably only see the ones that have failed and there aren't many Meganes on the road that have done long miles yet. So it's concerning that customers are coming to them with failed motors that have only done 60,000Km on average but without knowing what percentage of the cars sold had problems with the motor it's hard to read too much into that one number. I only really reported it as it shows how being unlucky can easily throw all those careful calculations out the window.
I think those numbers are hokey, for several reasons, but principally because I work in a building with a few hundred engineers (electrical, mechanical and other types) most of whom drive EV's , with plenty more kms on them than 60, 000, and I do not recall engine failure being discussed at lunch full stop.
It's nonsense click bait.
Our current EV has done 25k miles and has needed only tyres.
And is this from new or do you buy used - frankly, ANY car should do 60k/5 years without anything major happening.
The EV vs Hybrid battery cost is another eye opener. Again, it's not really something I'd thought about.
My feeling ATM is that a new EV is a good option if the numbers work for you and you can afford it - but buying used is potentially more risky than an ICE although obvs there's no guarantees an ICE won't go pop.
To be fair, it's not click bait at all, it's buried in a Google Doc where they are reporting the data on repairs that they make. As is often the way with numbers it might not mean what you might initially think it means though i.e. they are probably not saying that Megane motors fail after 60,000Km on average. It may just be that the ones that do fail (which might be a tiny percentage of the cars) tend to fail at that age.
Johnathan Porterfield (sp?) on Youtube does talk about a motor failure on his Zoe and goes as far as saying that he wouldn't recommend buying a high mileage one for that reason. Main issue being the the failure was down to a cheap bearing but Renault would only supply a whole new motor!
The problem is that it is things like this (e.g. whether the manufacturer will supply a part, what it costs, whether there are alternative suppliers etc) that can totally change the lifetime cost of a car, but these are points that are hardly ever explored by "motoring journalists".
Both of our EVs were used when we bought them.
TLDR: By looking at different numbers you can make various options (ICE or different EVs) look more or less attractive but a few expensive repairs can easily change the numbers quite significantly. So, unless you've got a crystal ball it will always be a bit f a leap of faith.
You can of course pay for an extended warranty. I think my e_tron warranty is something like £400 per year. Same(ish) as the A6 before it.
We are on our 3rd ev and the only unexpected items I've had to pay for are 12v batteries on the Zoe and the Kona at shorter intervals than I would expect for an ICE car.
Oh and a broken spring on the Zoe thanks to Mrs OTS's reckless disregard for potholes.
Early Meganes had a software glitch that lunched the air con pump on cars without a heat pump - they should all be fixed with a software update now. Apart from that I wasn't aware of anything so had a look at the usual French reliability site. Motors are either orange or red depending on model so not good. The elephant in the room on all of the Megane models is the electronics - pretty typical EV then.
https://www.fiches-auto.fr/fiabilite-renault/fiabilite-701-pannes-renault-megane-e-tech.php
If you want to compare with other brands happy clicking on this list:
You can repair motors. They only have a couple of bearings in them and they can be replaced using the same techniques and equipment as transmission refurbishment. There's a video on YouTube of a transmission place doing it and despite not being EV specialists they manage fine.
I've been running a few numbers (I like numbers) while I try to decide whether I want to make the switch from my ICE car to a newer EV. I thought I'd share them here just in case anybody else found them useful (long shot 😀 ).
A couple of thoughts having recently bought a used e-niro.
1. Insurance was a pleasant surprise, being only about £50 per year more than our old c-max.
2. We were attracted to Kia in part because of the 7 year transferable warranty. So we still have 3.5 years to cover anything major failing prematurely.
3. I have heard stories about motor bearings failing early on some e-niros but these were replaced under warranty.
4. Overall we're very pleased with our decision. It's quiet, comfortable, and costs less than £5 to fully charge.
that reminds me, i need to clean up and flg my Niro roof bars 😉
It may just be that the ones that do fail (which might be a tiny percentage of the cars) tend to fail at that age.
I suspect it's only the ones that they have had into their workshops (or maybe a few other local ones that they are in contact with).
Saying that. you've got to wonder why someone who appears to be an independent workshop would be repairing motors that are still within the manufacturers warranty. Unless these are commercial customers (don't always get the same warranty terms) or are people who've otherwise abused/modified the cars?
Just out of interest, when you had an EV charge point installed at home, did you notify your home insurance company?
I'm having to put a bit more thought into this now as I only have a few months left on the current company car before it goes back. Currently have 3 cars of interest, the Cupra Born 77Kwh, Renault Scenic, and the Polestar 2 single motor. None appeal to me massively, but the best of what I need. I hate that most EV's with a big range are huge SUV's. A few times a month I will do 300 miles+ in a day. I'd rather not sit in services for an hour waiting to top up.
Joined a Cupra group on FB. Pretty much every post is swearing on the infotainment. Scenic is nice, but again, too big for me really. Polestar is the classy option, but seem hard to find.
A few times a month I will do 300 miles+ in a day. I'd rather not sit in services for an hour waiting to top up
You drive more than 300 miles without a break?
My car does about 230 miles at motorway speed, which is plenty far enough for me. It'll charge back up to 80% in 45 minutes, newer models will be quicker.
Just out of interest, when you had an EV charge point installed at home, did you notify your home insurance company?
No. And based on the fact that whether I have one is not a question I've ever been asked when submitting a quote, I'm not sure they care?
Saying that. you've got to wonder why someone who appears to be an independent workshop would be repairing motors that are still within the manufacturers warranty.
Maybe because manufacturers/dealers are not yet geared up for 'specialist' EV repairs so use an authorised specialist?
It's not unheard of.
A few times a month I will do 300 miles+ in a day. I'd rather not sit in services for an hour waiting to top up.
As others will say, why do you need to top up for an hour.
1/ If you're doing 300 miles in a day you're presumably going somewhere, like a customer. Not always but a lot have charge points themselves, we do - so you can put some in while you are meeting them.
2/ If not chances are you can find one nearby anyway
3/ If not, then if you get a decent ranged car then you don't need to refill. Being a co car and hence a new model you can probably stuff another 15-20kWh in in a few minutes (googled the Cupra above, max speed is 170kW on DC, so you can put 20kWh in in under 10 mins. That's the aim - spend as little on external charging and get home with a few miles to spare so you can charge at home for buttons. Might view differently if you are expensing your down route charging costs.
Range anxiety was my fear. Practically, has never been an issue, I've only ever got down to sub 30 mile range deliberately, and I've only had to actively wait while charging once in 5 months (visiting daughter at Uni, we had to go to the retail park to plug in for 15 mins or so and so wandered around Currys for 10 mins while waiting. Any other time we had stuff to do and could charge while doing it)
Okay, fair points regarding charging times etc. I tend not to stop, other than at a customer site or for a quick toilet stop. Home charging not an issue.
"A few times a month I will do 300 miles+ in a day. I'd rather not sit in services for an hour waiting to top up"
The only way you'd be sitting for an hour is for a complete 0-100% charge of the battery, which for lets say a 250 mile range car you are driving 500 miles.
The reality most of the time is more of a quick top-up. Lets say you're doing a 350 miles trip in a 250 mile range car. That's 100 miles range to add which is 100/250 = 40% charge. Most modern cars could add that in about 20 mins ish.
A typical pee and coffee stop on the motorway is about 20 mins ish. Bear in mind that the car is charging for the whole time you're stopped, i.e. including walking across the carpark to the services, in the look, grabbing a takeaway coffee, walking back to the car.
And then you're free to just drive off, whereas those in ICE cars who need to refuel do all of that service station stuff, and then afterwards have to stop again at the petrol station before leaving.
So - in the real world, this kind of top-up charge is actually QUICKER than in an ICE.
Currently have 3 cars of interest, the Cupra Born 77Kwh, Renault Scenic, and the Polestar 2 single motor. None appeal to me massively,
Interesting, I've been looking at the same three with similar views too. Personally, I'm leaning towards the scenic as the polestar doesn't have seem to have a proper hatchback (not so good with dogs) and the Cupra doesn't have a heatpump as standard (and the infotainment seems to be a right pain).
I also think that Scenic is too big for what I need (and I don't like the pale interior on the top spec model) but the (lack of) range on anything smaller bothers me too. Compounded in my case by the fact that I tend to keep cars around 6-7 years on average so have half an eye on what a 250 mile range might look like in 5 years time when everything will presumably go 500 miles between charges.
I've worked out that for the car not to be the limiting factor I would "need" a real world 200 mile (motorway/dual-carriageway) range in winter (so I could do my 500 mile Christmas journey with two stops). Anything more is probably overkill, but even that probably requires a WLTP range of at least 350 miles.
It's not really an EV thing but I do find that lots of modern cars have so many features that can go wrong in annoying ways that it's hard to justify spending so much money on them. I've been hanging out on the Scenic facebook groups and while there are lots of happy owners you hear about things (like really harsh phantom braking) that just make you think "ugh".
No. And based on the fact that whether I have one is not a question I've ever been asked when submitting a quote, I'm not sure they care?
I take your point but if I Google it the AI generated response is:
”In the UK, it's highly recommended to notify your insurer about installing or having EV charge points, as failure to do so could lead to a claim being declined due to non-disclosure of an increased risk”
Maybe because manufacturers/dealers are not yet geared up for 'specialist' EV repairs so use an authorised specialist?
It's not unheard of.
Good point, especially in markets with lower market share or representation.
I take your point but if I Google it the AI generated response is:
”In the UK, it's highly recommended to notify your insurer about installing or having EV charge points, as failure to do so could lead to a claim being declined due to non-disclosure of an increased risk”
Just asked Admiral, they said:
Please be informed that there is no need to declare that you have EV charger on your home.
I tend not to stop, other than at a customer site or for a quick toilet stop. Home charging not an issue.
Surely you can modify your behaviour to include a 15 minute break on your trip? I mean, reducing emissions is important, and what's a couple of 15 minute stops a month in the grand scheme of things? It's a pretty small sacrifice for a pretty big reduction in carbon emissions.
Had my Audi EV for just over a year. I also do a once monthly 320 mile round trip, mainly motorway (Liverpool to Milton Keynes). As the above posters have said, a 20/30 minute total stop time gives me plenty to get home with no range anxiety. On this route the motorway services are pretty good for EV charging with a number of different options.
However, I would add that some trips can be a bit of a pain. I drove from Liverpool to the Lakes and back on Sunday. My logic was I would stop off at Charnock Richards on the way back and top up...only 2 working chargers both in use. I waited 30 minutes but neither became available. OK I thought, I drive past the M62 services and I still have 30% charge....4 charging devices all occupied. The Tesla chargers at this location apparently only work with Tesla and they come with the worlds shortest cable....so if I could have used one I would have taken up two bays. Anyway, ended up having to find a McDonalds near to the motorway where I could top up.
Its rare that I run into these problems, but in my opinion there's still work to do to take the faff out of long journeys.
I agree with w00dster, but would add that for most journeys that stress can be allayed with apps like Electroverse that 'should' give up to date availability, and also having a willing and pro-active co-pilot doing the checking whilst we drive!
I would stop off at Charnock Richards on the way back and top up...only 2 working chargers both in use.
That's your problem. Why stop at Charnock Richard with 2 chargers when there's a bank of 8 just off J27 and another bank of 8 just off J28? 15 at a public Tesla at Preston too. You drive past hundreds of chargers. I mean it's not particularly onerous to plan, but you do have to have a look if your car doesn't do it for you. I just let the car tell me where to stop.
On that point, how good is Google maps (as part of google automotive) at telling you which chargers are working/free ?
I don't know tbh. I know there is good data out there and not every provider has it. Last year my Hyundai said one thing Zap Map said something wildly different. The car was right. Clearly Hyundai are just using a data feed from the operator, which suggests it's a premium feed they're paying for, and free Zap Map is not.
Did my first fast charging last weekend, 400 ish mile round trip. arrived with 20% battery left, charged to 80% at an Instavolt at a Sainsburys Local down the road from the hotel and had my first taste of 165kw DC charging which is awesome and had me at 80% in less than 25 mins.
Having pootled around over the weekend I was never going to get home on the charge I had left. The car suggested a stop towards the end of the drive but as the Nav shows chargers and their availability I picked one earlier on the route and we stopped for a quick sandwich. Topped up back to 80% in less than the time it took to eat said sandwich and had more than enough juice left when I got home.
Overall very happy with how it went, 'on the road' leccy is pretty pricey (spent £65!) but considering it's a tiny cost at home and free at work, it's hardly an issue once in a while.
I'm hopefully going to get a test drive in one of these over the next couple of days.
Unfortunately I don't think it's got a decent enough range for us but it's the most interesting EV I've seen since the i3.
My current ID3 is up for replacing at the end of the summer and it's very practical and comfortable. It does everything it's supposed to, I just find it so boring.
