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Test drove the Genesis GV60 today and super impressed with it. Great ride and comfort levels as well as cool tech e.g. blind spot camera displays either side of the speedo depending on which way you indicate. Definitely top of the shopping list so far.
I don't want any thumping or banging or roaring as I am travelling about the countryside at the speed limit FFS. I want silence, maybe a gentle whoosh to indicate motion.
Test drove the Genesis GV60 today and super impressed with it.
Glad you liked it.
Be aware that some of the cool tech is optional though. The blind spot cameras are part of the Innovation pack.
Even the absolute poverty spec base model still has lots of cool kit though.
the cost per mile over is punitive. You’ll find that, I think, it’s annual mileage that affects monthly cost most. 20k pa will easily lob £150-200 onto whatever lease deal is showing on screen (which always look like bargain because they’ll be a 9/12 month down, +48 etc; so ignore those.)
This is a big cost killer but that's also an ICE issue. Totally switched me off the EV6 about a year ago when it was coming in at around £700/month (iirc).
I'm at that 15k up to 20k a year spot so I tend to buy at 4-5 years old/up to 50k miles and hopefully I'll get 4-5years before the bills are piling in too quickly. It seems to work ok. With long term battery life seemingly not as awful as people (I) feared that space is starting to back fill with some affordable and capable cars. Still more £ than ICE car for car (size/class) but definitely better options.
Was chatting with my dad today about EVs. I found myself wavering about whether we'd have been better with a 4 year old Ioniq5 than our recently bought diesel Skoda. Job is done now but I'm more convinced than ever that we are into our last 3-4 years of ICE cars as a household.
I did 360 miles last Thursday and in my head I could actually see while we were travelling how I would make that work fairly easily. I think we'd have been half an hour or so slower on the 225 mile evening run to the North, which would have been annoying but tolerable. Very unusual day though with work travel then a long slog up to a family thing.
Caranddriver just tested the new model 3 performance to 60 in 2.8 seconds
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62640173/2024-tesla-model-3-performance-quicker-acceleration/
That's quicker than pretty much everything this side of £200k. Not bad for 60k
Enjoy being baffled, I guess....
Other views are available.. I like top trumps...
DrP
Are they giving the fast evs the brakes and handling to go with the acceleration yet? or are they still just just one trick straight line pony's?
I ask, as our eqc (pretty old in terms of ev designs) is pretty quick in terms of acceleration, 0-60 in 5 seconds, but the brakes and handling are of a car that would do 0-60 in 10 seconds.
And from what I can deduce from reading reviews about a lot of other fast evs, they seem to follow the same formula, good brakes and handling are rarely mentioned, which leads me to believe they not very good for a lot of fast evs.
Disclaimer, I have not driven many other evs, but have driven a lot of fast ice cars over the years, so know what good handling and brakes bring to the overall picture.
Edit: I think the model 3 performance does have decent handling from reading reviews, but so many others don't seem to.
Are they giving the fast evs the brakes and handling to go with the acceleration yet? or are they still just just one trick straight line pony’s?
well…
The #1 Brabus gets:
Different Alloys (same size and tyres). A rear spoiler extended by an inch or so. Some vents in the bonnet that go nowhere. Some red detailing on the front, side and rear skirts. Selective AWD.
Oh and Rocket Launch mode.
So, as you can see, it’ll handle all that extra speed easily. :o)
well…
The #1 Brabus gets:
Different Alloys (same size and tyres). A rear spoiler extended by an inch or so. Some vents in the bonnet that go nowhere. Some red detailing on the front, side and rear skirts. Selective AWD.
Oh and Rocket Launch mode.
So, as you can see, it’ll handle all that extra speed easily. :o)
Lol, yep, that's exactly what I mean.
The performance edition polestar 2 (which..I don't have!) has bigger brembo discs and calipers, and ohlins suspension...
#salivates....
The BST 270 has even better shocks.
To be fair on the standard P2, the brakes are fairly sizeable at 345mm front, and has wide tyres (the rears rims are an inch wider than the front!).
Additionally, I've lowered mine.
However, I completely agree that it's all pointless and. 99% of the time I'm cruising around in complete peace, probably at about 26mph, accelerating slowly etc...!
But... I'm a kid at heart, and I'm completely honest on that fact it's kinda cool to have a near 500hp car!
DrP
That’s why the pick of the range for any given electric car is usually the biggest battery, single motor version with the smallest wheels. Gives the greatest range but throttles back the performance to match the characteristics of the actual car to make it just quick enough
Regarding the engine noise thing, I find myself equating it to loud hubs on a bike.
I've had loud clicky Hopes, loud buzzy C King and Superstar 120poe things.
I quite like loud hubs, but then I started using Onyx silent hubs on a couple of bikes, and on balance, I prefer it. Given the choice one way or another, silent wind hands down, but I like to hear someone else cruise by with a silly loud I9 or similar occasionally.
I just don't want it myself.
Same with noisy cars.
I love to hear, in no particular order, a proper old American V8 muscle car, a healthy cross flow on Weber's at full welly in a rally car, a scooby Impreza burbling by at low speed, air cooled Porsches, Harley shovelhead or older, Golf R32, a screaming four cylinder bike.
I just don't want that soundtrack while trundling down the A9 in the family car. Give me electric calm anytime.
Of course, come the lottery win, the MST MK1 with a Millington is top of the list alongside the leccy car.
And some daft old Harley.
And maybe a slightly rodded 50s Chevrolet...
.
I was a serious “petrol head” when I was younger and regularly drove everything from Caterhams to 800 bhp Audis and ridiculous supercharged cobras; the latter was terrifying, you could almost feel the chassis twisting, and the noise had other petrol heads twitching at two miles. I also did trackdays, drag racing, sprints and hill climbs frequently and went to the Nurburgring every year. I enjoyed a lot of very nice ICE cars but I have to say, despite being a fair bit slower than some of my previous cars, the silent acceleration of our Model 3 performance never fails to make me smile, I’m also a lot happier to pootle along and just chill no matter how manically others are driving. As a competent cross country car, it’s outstanding and really doesn’t want for anything on the suspension or brake front. The suspension and brakes wouldn’t be vaguely suited for hammering around a racetrack, then again, I had to swap brakes and suspension on my BMW M3 and many other performance cars.
Maybe I’m getting old, but another thing I love about our M3P is that it’s not even slightly antisocial, it wafts along, barely disturbing anyone’s peace. I loved a BMW straight six howling away, the angry growl of a turboed V8 and that supercharger whine on a large capacity engine; different times though for me and I can’t say I miss the noise. 🙂
I think I’ll get a Nurburgring sticker for the back of the Brabus. As befits its Teutonic design.
MST MK1 with a Millington
My first car, back in 1985, was a Mk1 Escort Mexico. In orange.
It would now be a collectors item/museum piece but it was, by all reasonable measure, shit.
I'm not going backwards
Don’t forget the red seatbelts @deadlydarcy I’m sure they’ll save you from all that power 🙂
I do find the dual-motor = insane acceleration approach with EVs a bit annoying to be honest. I mean I’m sure it’s fun but you don’t half pay for it in insurance premiums. A Tesla Model 3 long range is insurance group 50, which is about as high as it goes and could easily end up costing a grand more per year to insure than a more sensible premium car and that’s for someone in their 50s. OK Tesla’s are particularly expensive to insure but there is usually a decent hike that comes with adding the extra motor. A Smart # 1 Premium is group 32 and a Brabus is group 38, for example
We’ve tended to go for AWD ICE cars as they suit our dodgy Aberdeenshire roads pretty well, but it’s hard to justify a dual motor EV as I don’t think anyone (other than maybe Subaru with the rebadge Toyota, which has its own issues) seems to make an AWD EV with a focus on traction rather than straight line acceleration.
Don’t forget the red seatbelts @deadlydarcy I’m sure they’ll save you from all that power 🙂
oh Cripes, yes. I totally forgot about those. There are red brake calipers as well I think. Which function way better than the unpainted ones on the other models.
@roverpig our M3P with full business use and loads of extras, inc European cover, legal etc is about £600 with Admiral, which isn’t far off our recent performance VAG cars. Maybe it’s an area thing for some reason? Although as they don’t really get stolen maybe not…
I honestly dont get the EV acceleration. So much so that i havent even used mine in anything other than economy mode so far. Why on earth would i want to 'nail it' in a family car that weighs over 2t? Its not as if its a sports car. It cant go around corners quickly and i dare say my wifes Mini Cooper would wipe the floor with it over a distance. The only thing i am achieving by stamping on the fast pedal in sport mode is to look like a slightly old, balding cock. It completely defeats the object of EV's as well.
I had the choice of AWD higher output motors on my vehicle but when i compared performance and range it was completely pointless. The higher output AWD version had a smaller battery (I presume to save weight) so a considerably lower range. BOTH cars were limited to 99mph so it couldnt even go faster. The only thing it had was the AWD in the winter and a faster 0-60 time.
I would honestly have them limited on their acceleration. It seems strange that a car marketed on its clean credentials allows itself to burn through its range doing pointless 0-60 times.
I drive in eco mode 99.9% of the time.
Normal mode for the occasional junction.
Sport mode for the fractions of a second that are needed when I cycle through the drive modes to get back to eco.
I would honestly have them limited on their acceleration. It seems strange that a car marketed on its clean credentials allows itself to burn through its range doing pointless 0-60 times.
If you if go you down that route then limit ICE cars acceleration also as they're burning through petrol which is more of a problem than using a few electrons.
When EVs were first commecialised the petrol heads rolled out the usual milk float jibes. Once the Tesla Model S was released all of a sudden they started arguing 0-60 times weren't important after obsessing about 0-60 times for decades. Having fast EVs removes a big argument against them used by a very vocal constituency.
To me that is the problem. Just because ice cars have become large heavy things with 300hp considered normal, evs didn't need to follow. They may not burn fossil fuel themselves, but there is still a need for efficient use of energy.
I honestly dont get the EV acceleration.
Just because ice cars have become large heavy things with 300hp considered normal, evs didn’t need to follow.
Absolutely agree with this but there seems to be an expectation of quick acceleration/0-60 times – I have an EV with a 0-60 of 5.3 seconds and some of the reviews about it say things like 'it's sufficient but not amazing' and 'not as fast as a Tesla' etc. A few years ago, that acceleration would make it one of the quickest mass-market cars out there.
Thanks @steamtb that's very interesting. You seem to be paying less for your IG 50 EV than I am for my IG 22 ICE car, so I must be doing something wrong 🙂
I honestly dont get the EV acceleration. So much so that i havent even used mine in anything other than economy mode so far. Why on earth would i want to ‘nail it’ in a family car that weighs over 2t?
Whilst I agree doing sub 5s 0-60 shouldn't be a focus of why people are buying EVs nor encouraged I have to say after 18 months of EV ownership I still like being first at a red light where it's safe to floor it (my commute is mostly on 40mph limited dual carriageway with several sets of lights). It's a brief source of puerile enjoyment to go 0-40 in a couple of seconds (and the only remotely enjoyable thing about driving for me), I'm sure everyone behind me is muttering "what a tit" to themselves but I don't care :p It's a bit less than 1% battery but as it's a rare occurrence I'm first at the lights and my commute otherwise is only 4% of my battery I don't feel I'm killing the planet every time I do get the opportunity (and don't have discernable wheel spin either so not unduly wearing out my tyres).
There's also so many idiots around that do 30-40mph on the on slip when joining a motorway (where traffic isn't crawling along) I appreciate being able to quickly accelerate up to 60-70mph to more safely match the traffic flow.
There’s also so many idiots around that do 30-40mph on the on slip when joining a motorway
Possibly this is because there are many drivers who seem to identify a car as their entry point to the motorway and match its speed rather than identifying a GAP and setting themselves up for that.
Many folks joining motorways do not seem to recognise that slip roads end in a junction where motorway traffic has right of way. German and Dutch colleagues used to get quite perturbed at British motorway drivers slowing down to let slip road drivers out.
On the EV acceleration. Yes! It is very handy at times.
It is very handy to have quick acceleration on hand at times - I like it. I may trundle around 99% of the time but occasionally if I want to overtake someone, I want it over and done with as fast as possible. Note I just mean like sub 7 secs to 60 or whatever, not 3 seconds.
I overtook a car in my EV for the first time yesterday and had a hairy moment – I put my foot down hard, expecting it to 'wind up' a bit before accelerating (because of a lifetime of driving ICE cars), but it shot off before I had properly pulled out and I had to lift off and start all over. It wasn't close to being an accident, but the whole family in the car with me were like 'WTF are you doing'?
Lesson learned.
I think the fast get away wears off for me I spend most of my time driving as normal, Its nice to have but nowhere to use.
I'm determined to hand our Model Y back with the original tyres after three years, so pootle about in 'chill' mode. It's plenty fast enough for most comfortable driving with passengers.
Instant torque was great climbing hairpins in the summer.
@johndoh I’ve had similar while pulling out into gaps in traffic. Where previously a car would be passing, my brain would process time to move, move foot from brake to accelerator, auto box would start to engage, engine winds up, car starts to move a bit then really gets going… now the car has auto hold so my foot is already on the accelerator, as I’m processing ‘let’s get going’ my foot pushes the accelerator and the car rockets forward. I’ve not had any near misses but have been a bit too close to the rear of the passing car for my liking.
Just seen this, looks ace. Shame it’s a one off and won’t be made though 🙁
Looks nice. I wonder if they'd do one in colour 🙂
I know it's just a concept but it's interesting to see that (like a Tesla) it doesn't actually have a bumper; in the sense of a sacrificial bit of plastic that is designed to take the hit and protect the rest of the car. I was reading something recently about why Tesla's are in such a high insurance group and this was given as one of the reasons. Any small bump is likely to result in damage to a main panel and therefore an expensive repair.
Bumper looks pretty similar to the original? It is there, just not a very obvious panel join.
The original was expensive to repair I think because it was aluminium. Presumably the bumpers are plastic.
Is it still a bumper if it doesn't stick out 🙂
So it looks as though you can't get an AWD EV without also getting bonkers acceleration, which means higher insurance costs. I'm not ruling that out but I am questioning whether I need a dual motor EV. My main motivation is improved traction in winter conditions (which we still get a fair bit of up here in the frozen North).
So, if I go for a single motor setup and with traction being the key is it still better (as it was with ICE cars) to go for FWD over RWD?
So, if I go for a single motor setup and with traction being the key is it still better (as it was with ICE cars) to go for FWD over RWD?
The only reason people used to say a fwd car had better traction in poor grip conditions than a rwd car was because the engine (and therefore more weight) was typically over the front wheels.
In an ev the motor is over the axle it is driving, so it doesn't matter ( in terms of weight distribution ) whether you go fwd or rwd from a traction point of view, also the battery spreads it's weight more evenly. You still have the characteristic that in a fwd car the power from the wheels is steerable, whereas in rwd it is not steerable
Maybe fwd still is just ahead of rwd for poor grip conditions because of the steerable power, but I reckon there's less in it than there used to be.
I'd still say get a twin motor car though, the extra insurance cost must be minimal for an oldish person with a clean licence and no previous claims.
Thanks. I still tend to think that FWD will perform better in snow/ice than RWD but that may just be years of driving ICE cars. Somehow being pulled along feels like it should work better in those conditions than being pushed along and understeer is much easier to control than oversteer. But then modern cars have electronic stability packs, so maybe it is irrelevant.
As I say, I'm not ruling out a dual-motor EV but it generally means a higher purchase cost, higher insurance costs and less range than the single-motor alternative so it's a bit harder to justify.
i reckon an EV with CrossClimates would be pretty effective in wintry conditions. It is still gong to be a very heavy sledge if/when braking forces, whether regen or discs, are overcome though by gravity.
Yes, tyres are still king 🙂
I've done a bit more digging and I think I've now convinced myself that RWD is better than FWD for an EV. As @julians says, weight distribution is different to an ICE car, which was the main reason for preferring FWD in an ICE car. EVs also have more torque which means torque steer could be more of an issue. Finally, when you accelerate the weight tends to shift from the front to the rear anyway, so RWD should actually give better traction . Of course all modern cars have so many traction aids that it probably makes little difference in practice , but I do like to sweat the details 🙂
Of course, if you accept that RWD is better than FWD that does rule out many popular offerings from Hyundai, Kia and almost anything French, which is a shame 🙂
my EV is RWD, with standard tyres, which are big fat ones, and it's laughably crap in the snow. I only had the opportunity to try it once last winter, which was my first one with it, and I won't be repeating it. It's an i4, and brought back memories of my 520d Tourer from 10 years ago.. It's a lease car so I can't swop the tyres.
Thankfully I can WFH much of the time so don't 'have' to use it in snowy weather (high part of South Lanarkshire so we do get some proper winter conditions most years), and we do have 3 FWD petrol cars in the household, one with CrossClimates all round.