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Slight change of subject: just back from a shopping park and MrsSB pointed out a car in a charging space.
She asked how did it work if you parked in the space and plugged in but didn’t come back for, say, 4 hours.
Is there generally a time limit on these spaces?
yes, rule of thumb, fast chargers 1hr, slower A/c chargers 4hrs before overstay fees kick in. An added bonus can be that some places give free parking if you are charging so I will plug in and use the parking fee saved to cover the charging cost and essentially get a free top up.
I only like one-pedal driving in slow traffic. I don’t like it in open driving because I can’t lift my foot off the pedal ever.
In open driving my car is mostly in some form of ADAS so I can relax my foot a bit. I figure that its probably safer than me.
The Corsa e has developed a problem.
The HVAC has decided not to work. Displays and controls work but no heat or air is blown through the vents.
I have read a good look at the fuses and they are all ok. The HVAC system seems to try to work but fails to push the air. I'll guess something but has gone wrong at the fan?. No leaks or anything untoward is wrong in the engine bay. Radiator fan spins when required.
I haven't plugged in an obd2 reader yet. I'll try that tomorrow.
Me thinks all the cash saved from owning a nice EV is going to be absorbed by the repairs dept?!
Rest of the car is working.
The Ioniq is fine, fingers crossed, no issues with 3 times the mileage of the Corsa e.
Checked if anything is blocking the airways?
It seems as if I can hear a switch when I call for heat from the heating controls then nowt happens. I don't think it's a blockage unless a big squirrel has lodged it self in the air intake?
The other half said that it just stopped working. She enjoyed pre heating and cooling the car and I wonder if the additional stress of this process speeds up the demise off the HVAC system?
I'll take another look at it tomorrow and check the filters and other accessible stuff.
Doubt it will have stressed it. EV HVAC’s vary a little, depending on heat pumps but the bulk of the power is provided by a big PTC (essentially a hairdryer), hence why they use so much power. Sounds like the fan may have stopped/gone/be having a little rest.
On my Enyaq, I shift into drive twice - first one tells me regen is set to automatic and I'm not sure it does anything. So I shift again and it seems to be far more aggressive - I see the blue regen bar showing far more frequently so I'm assuming it is doing much more of that.
I do tend to be able to do 1 pedal driving for vast majority of my driving, I don't have adaptive cruise control but I suspect I'd be using that constantly if I did.
However, change in weather and a far busier company car park means my charging isn't quite as simple as it was...but a 4 hour bike ride of an evening isn't a bad thing!
Next question:
What are your thoughts regarding what happens when a battery runs out of warranty.
Obvs it will keep on working but what if there's an issue big enough to require a new battery.
This cost could obviously be huge and that might lead to the whole car being scrapped.
If that's the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out.
If I bought a car it would be 2-3 years old and have an 8 year warranty.
If I'm faced with potentially a bill for maybe £30-40k after 8 years of ownership then I'm less than keen to enter that ownership experience!
This would affect used prices as well.
I reckon the battery refurbishment industry will be up and running by 2030. Repairs will hopefully be relatively cheap. I'd expect a higher energy density battery to be available as well, so an improved range.
There are an awful lot of ifs in that post Sharkbait. I'm with retrorick, there would be many more options in 8 years time. I'd also take confidence in all those long warranty periods being offered. Clearly manufacturers have evidence of long battery life.
@retrorick I don't think the symptoms are quite right, but the AC compressors on Corsas/208s are a known weak point.
I don't think it'll be 30-40k to replace/repair a battery out of warranty, I expect there will be a 3rd party industry replacing cells, and/or using second hand entire batteries from crashed cars, much like major components from ice cars are harvested from crashed cars and used to keep cars on the road for much less than buying a new engine/gearbox etc from a main dealer.
Just doing a quick Google suggests an entire new battery for my car would be about 10k now, a lot of money but not 30-40k
I think a brand new engine for my previous ice car would have been soemthing like 25k from a main dealer, but nobody's going to pay that if they need a new engine out of warranty, they'll just find an engine from a scrapped car for 5 to 10k. I think It's a similar cost for the dct gearbox from a dealer.
I’m faced with this battery decision as our Model S battery will coming out of warranty in 2025. We have had it around 3 years now. It charges to 80% on a home charger for 99% of the driving we do and I don’t think we have seen any significant reduction in range in that time. Has covered around 140k and have replaced some suspension parts in the last year and do need to finally do the back brakes soon too.
My gut instinct is to just keep it. It’s paid off and the value has dropped since we bought it too. Running cost compared to a diesel is great. We would only replace it with another electric car anyway and we love the space in it, huge boot for the dogs/bales of hay/shavings etc.
Spend what we would on replacing it on solar and battery and then see if we can make further savings that way
timmys
Full Member
@retrorick I don’t think the symptoms are quite right, but the AC compressors on Corsas/208s are a known weak point.
I had read something about this a while back. Hoping I would be lucky and avoid the problem! I will report back with updates when I have more answers.
If that’s the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out.
There is an independant industry around fixing tired Leafs when their batteries start to fail. Why wouldn't this expand to fit other EV's?
It's a future proof version of car spannering with cleaner hands.
Crazy discounts on pre-registered i-Pace down from ~£75k to ~£43k
I don't think anyone will buy a brand new battery frim the dealer if they get a fault. There are already businesses refurbishing batteries by replacing the failed cells for older models e.g. Leafs. There are enough cells around from crashed cars to support this as the failure rate is pretty low. It will be more expensive with other makes of course as they have more complex batteries and coolant circuitry, but the idea is the same. The battery drops out from under the car then you can fix it on a bench.
The other thing to consider is that with a repaired battery an EV could be nearly new; wheras ICEs can have engine parts failing left and right (check the threads on here or any other forum). I think that lack of desirability and interior wear will be the most likely things to eventually scrap your EV.
What are your thoughts regarding what happens when a battery runs out of warranty.
Obvs it will keep on working but what if there’s an issue big enough to require a new battery.
This cost could obviously be huge and that might lead to the whole car being scrapped.
If that’s the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out
Pretty big ‘if’ there. ‘Disposable’ is perhaps a bit hyperbolic as there’d be some scrap value in the vehicle if it suffers a too expensive to repair problem.
@molgrips describes things well I think. And the experience @bruk has fits with most of the Tesla fleet experience. Sure, capacity reduces, but not as much as manufacturers expected. The things just keep on going. Though mechanical bits will wear out in time.
I’d be unsurprised if they ended up with greater longevity than modern ICEs. More frequent charging to offset reducing battery capacity isn’t too troubling. And total battery pack failure seems uncommon. Maybe less common than head gasket/turbo/engine/gearbox failures? Albeit more to fix.
there would be many more options in 8 years time.
I agree, but as has already been said, some people are already over the milage limit or getting close to the warranty time limit.
So, as a future owner, I'm interested in how the manufacturers are planning on handling replacing/repairing battery packs.
Yes there are third party repairers but moving ahead, as more people see an opportunity, are these repair shops going to be regulated?
You can't compare an ICE repair with a battery back repair as the latter has a greater chance of bursting into flames all on its own.
My biggest concern as a potential buyer of a used EV is whether values will plummet once out of warranty, which is a possibility unless the manufacturers stand behind their tech. Maybe some have a published plan already, but the manufacturer I'm interim right now does not seem to.
..... And how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had a battery transplant from a scrapped car?
Not looking for problems, I'm looking for some reassurance!
I'd like to buy a 2 year old car now and know that it's still going to have a resale value in 10 years time.
And how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had a battery transplant from a scrapped car?
I shouldn't think they care as long as it passes an mot, and has no undeclared modifications from the manufacturers standard
I’d like to buy a 2 year old car now and know that it’s still going to have a resale value in 10 years time
I've done what you're thinking about doing, bought a 2 year old ev with the intention of keeping it long term, 8 to 10 years, who knows how it will pan out, but my gut feel is that it will be OK.
One of the things which helped tip the balance for me to take the plunge into EV ownership is the many videos on YouTube with huge mileage Teslas.
There's plenty around now with 150K + miles of largely trouble free motoring. One I saw recently had a 3 with 200K miles and the guy had almost exclusively hammered the charge into the battery with supercharger. The battery should be pretty trashed but upon testing the degradation was quite minimal really, down to 88% or so, I don't remember exactly.
Three weeks in, I absolutely love driving this car! I'm finding myself driving around with no radio on, just enjoying the lovely quietness of it. The effortless wafting torque and rapid acceleration is rather nice too.
I'm almost exclusively using a 7kw charger (free use at the office), so my battery gets charged to 100% over about 5 hours during the day - car is 7 months old and done about 6.3k miles.
Think I've used a fast charger (22kw) about 5 times and only charged to 80% using that.
My thinking is the 7kw is a slow charge so the battery doesn't get as warm so the degradation isn't the same and is far slower.
Selfishly, the car is a lease so will be handed back after 3 years, so I'm not losing sleep over it, but at the same time, I'm not wanting to deliberately ruin the battery.
I have just started the purchasing process for my first ever new car (46 and only ever bought used). A VW buzz GTX. I’ll let you all know how it goes!
what configuration did you go for ?
I’ve got a 6 seat , 86 kWh, LWB on order . Has your dealer given any indication to delivery dates yet ?
7 seater GTX in silver, I have 3 kids and often a mother in law… didn’t seem to be that many options. A guy from the VW main office called me to check my interest and said that my local dealer would call me soon. He seemed to think it’d be a couple of months.
currently a year and a bit into an i4 as a salary sacrifice lease car. Absolutely love it. When it comes for replacement in 3 years I may be financing myself as hopefully will be retired. An ID Buzz, second hand and about a year old, is top of my current wish list.
Will be just me, wife and dog most of the time, but the concept of lots of internal bike space, rather than a towbar rack, is attractive, assuming it is actually practical to do that with seats down.
Just over a year in my Kia EV6 and still love it. No problems so far and it's lovely to drive.
The majority of charging is done overnight at home on the Intelligent Octopus Go tariff with the odd public charging session when on long trips. Just over 10,000 miles and total charging cost has been £203 home charging and £120 public charging.
First service was performed by the local Kia dealer last week. It took them about 35 minutes, and that included washing and vacuuming the car and taking a video showing me the underneath of the car!
7 seater GTX in silver, I have 3 kids and often a mother in law… didn’t seem to be that many options. A guy from the VW main office called me to check my interest and said that my local dealer would call me soon. He seemed to think it’d be a couple of months.
I've gone for the same colour. Currently have a nuclear yellow ( as the kids call it) , so wanted something a bit tamer this time. The other GTX colours didn't really do it for me, but having seen the Silver in the flesh it really looks nice.
VW dealers vary massively for customer service, so I'd be pro-active if you haven't heard from them soon. Our local(ish) commercial one was absolutely crap in getting back to me when I was buying my current vehicle , so I ended up buying one from 170 miles away at a dealer who was actually interested in selling you something. I have the GTX on order through one of the VW car dealers not too far from home. I've also used them when I had an issue with seat airbags and the current problem with the peeling vegan steering wheel which is being replaced with a proper leather one this week. Just hope VW spec the new ones with a real leather steering wheel ( or at least a better synthetic one). Apart from that , no other issues with it, and the GTX should improve that experience.
Think I’ve used a fast charger (22kw) about 5 times and only charged to 80% using that.
22kW isn't a fast charger. It'll still be an AC supply, so limited by whatever size inverter is installed in your vehicle (most likely 7 or 11kW)
22kW isn’t a fast charger
It is in terms of how chargers are classified (fast is 7-22kW)
I'll be interested to hear what you think of the Smart #1 @shinton as it's still on my list of possible options for the next car. Mind you I've been looking at EVs for months and still keep oscillating between various interesting newer models, "just get a Tesla as at least they bloody work" and "just keep my current 140k mile ICE car running a bit longer and see what happens", with the last option currently in pole position.
Lots of cars look interesting on paper and get glowing reviews, but then when you check the owner's forums they start to look like a nightmare. Obviously people tend to report the problems and happy drivers don't tend to post, but the EX30, for example seems to have truly awful software and the Smart is not without its issues. Most outrageous one I've seen so far is an owner claiming that they can't get a cracked windscreen fixed as Autoglass won't touch it because the glass roof needs to be removed to replace the windscreen and even the local dealer won't do that. Can't believe that's really true to be honest. Would any manufacturer really be allowed to release a car where you couldn't replace the windscreen?
What are your thoughts regarding what happens when a battery runs out of warranty.
Obvs it will keep on working but what if there’s an issue big enough to require a new battery.
This cost could obviously be huge and that might lead to the whole car being scrapped.
Can't say I've given it much thought - for me it would be similar to worrying about if an ICE engine blew up, can happen but unlikely. A battery will continue to slowly degrade and may get to the point it's had so many charging cycles it's degraded to the point it's no longer fit for purpose but that figure is generally very high for current EV batteries and should only improve with new tech. I only charge my EV every week or two as I don't do many miles, if I was doing a lot of miles and charging to 100% every night I'd probably lease in order to take battery degradation concerns out of the equation.
If that’s the case it might lead people to think that EVs are effectively disposable items with very little value after the 8/10 year warranty runs out.
It's a bit early to say what the "battery degradation will likely mean range is reduced to such an extent the car is essentially scrap" figure is but it will be well in excess of 10 years (there's already Tesla Model S's older than that with perfectly usable batteries). I'd guess 15-20 years will be more like the age current EV batteries will get to the point they're near useless in terms of being able to hold charge and as others have said who know what tech will exist then to regen them or if governments will offer subsided replacement schemes etc.
If I bought a car it would be 2-3 years old and have an 8 year warranty.
If I’m faced with potentially a bill for maybe £30-40k after 8 years of ownership then I’m less than keen to enter that ownership experience!
That's pretty much my situation (bought a 2 year old Polestar 2 that comes with an 8 year battery warranty). I'm not planning to change it at or before 8 years, how long I keep it will depend on my future requirements, how many general issues I end up having with it and the state of my finances. All of these are the same reasons I've changed previous ICE cars (the last two of which I owned were both replaced after 10 years).
A replacement battery is also unlikely to be £30-40k unless it's a £100k+ purchase cost car whereby the manufacturer is going to charge a premium just because they can. A Tesla Model 3 replacement is supposedly around £15k inc. labour.
As I said, for me battery degradation/failure isn't really a concern (any more than say my house roof failing through age and not being covered by insurance) but if it is for you then you really need to look at leasing or self-insuring (e.g. putting money aside into an investment account that factors in the car being near worthless in x number of years and need replacing).
I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the Smart #1
Our PS2 was whipped back off us by wife’s redundancy (salary sacrifice car) so we’re hunting around. Test drove a Smart#1 at the weekend and it’s the first car I’ve actually really liked since saying byebye to the PS. My employer has said they’ll do me a ss on an electric so we’re hovering on pushing the button on a Brabus.
I think the software will take some getting used to. Android auto was pretty easy on the PS. But with wireless CarPlay, I’m not massively bothered. Voice recognition was really good and responsive. No lag at all.
Lack of boot space will take some getting used to. But overall, it felt really nice inside.
Brabus looks a beast but with no upgraded suspension over the base model I'm not sure I could trust myself. Hopefully test driving one on Thursday @roverpig and on Friday Genesis are bringing over a GV60 to the house for me to test.
Brabus looks a beast but with no upgraded suspension over the base model I’m not sure I could trust myself.
you’d imagine it was me and not Mrs dd that plumped for the Brabus. We test drove the Premium and that was fine for me. Someone didn’t like the white trim inside! Ffs.
I won’t be driving the Brabus anywhere near as intended. The 4WD will be nice. But it’s not really set up as a performance car, is it?
Thanks both,
Yes, I looked at the Brabus but all it seems to offer is a bit less range and some bonkers acceleration. The latter sounds like fun but I know that in practice that would just get me into trouble and the standard model is no slouch. Maybe it would cope better with an Aberdeenshire winter (maybe) but the Premium is a chunk cheaper and I suspect the extra range may prove more useful than the extra motor. I'm with your wife though @deadlydarcy I'm not sure about the white interior either 🙂 A bit first generation ipod for me.
on Friday Genesis are bringing over a GV60 to the house for me to test.
If it’s one with the camera digital door mirrors, don’t be put off. They are awful. The old fashioned glass mirrors are far superior in every way.
The base model Premium is the pick of the bunch with the best range and best ride quality and is plenty quick enough. If I was getting another i’d upgrade to the Nappa leather interior and the sunroof.
Just had a test drive in a VW ID7 Tourer... Very impressed with it!
Anybody here own one?
What are we typically seeing for real world ranges vs claimed ranges for VW group cars on the whole?
for me it would be similar to worrying about if an ICE engine blew up, can happen but unlikely
This. The engine on my 11 year old Mercedes could explode tomorrow. Would I tow it to the main dealer and ask for a new engine? Of course not. That would probably be £20 grand, 2.5x its market value. I'd have an independent refurbish it* or get one from eBay for .. checking... £2k.
the latter has a greater chance of bursting into flames all on its own.
Does it? Is it a greater chance than a tank of petrol? Serious question.
And how are insurance companies going to view vehicles that have had a battery transplant from a scrapped car?
They will have to respond. If we are all forced to buy EVs because the supply of new ICEs is either banned or dries up, then there must be a solution as most people cannot afford to scrap £10k cars or pay huge insurance premiums. If that were the case, then motoring would go back to being only for rich people (some might say this was no bad thing). But clearly we are not ready for that. This is a situation where the market would probably deliver - we would never end up with a huge pile of repairable cars and large ready market of people with no car who want one...
* who am I kidding? It'd be on the bench in my garage for two months...
I’d like to buy a 2 year old car now and know that it’s still going to have a resale value in 10 years time.
How much are 12 year old ICE cars worth now? Not a fat lot. How much are you going to save on fuel in that 10 years? Probably more than the difference even if your EV were worth nothing. We are saving about a grand a year on fuel even with a modest commute. If your ICE were worth £3k at 12 years old and your EV nothing, you are still £7k ahead.
22kW isn’t a fast charger
According to how these things are classified (as opposed to the ordinary language meaning, which moves with the times) 22kW is "fast", anything above that being "rapid" or "ultra rapid".