The Electric Car Thread

Yeah, they look really light on the specs which would make it feel fun to chuck around especially with a leccy motor and no gears/clutch.  Just the job for nipping in and out of town.  The only snag (up in the North East anyway) is the epidemic of bike and scooter thefts.  Think I'd want to leave it somewhere really secure - no different to an ICE bike in that respect obviously.

Posted by: jezzep

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I was surprised there was no responses to my message about buying a Maeving:

 

I saw the bike mentioned and I'm aware of their bikes. At some point in the future I'll get an electric motorbike but I'm holding off whilst my petrol scooter does the job. I'd prefer a scooter for the under seat storage rather than a bike with no storage space. 

The naxeon bike has the same issue, maybe great for everything but poor for storage and weather protection when it is chucking it down. Some of the tech on it looks nice but it's don't have 20+ liters of space under the seat for stuff I carry on my commute and maybe a top box for extra space. If Naxeon/maeving stuff their tech and knowledge into a scooter I'd be interested. 

Segway es300 of seat mo/silence s01 are in my options but when the silence is getting too big and the Segway has small wheels (but maybe their abs and geometry cancelled out the wheel size issue I might have)?

the BMW CE04 piqued my interest, especially as you can now pick them up with minimal miles on for the same price as the bikes names above. They don't have any more range but can charge 3 times faster and have a much more sophisticated ride (according to reviews) and performance. Plus you can at least get a helmet in the storage pod, plus they can take a box. I also reckon the resale value will be much better - I3's are holding value quite well and they have a similar vibe. Rather than looking like a pastiche of a cafe racer they look like something from Tron which suits better I think - and as someone who has commuted by bike in all weathers, having some protection up front is a must.

Hiya, 

I don't think there is a perfect EV bike. I had a Gilera Runner for 3 years. The storage under the seat was brilliant, for sure. The Maeving has 10l tank storage btw. 

Yeah I agree having ridden bikes for 20 odd years that a fairing helps 🙏 I've had bikes with both. Personally I'm not reliant on this every day to get to work I own my van as I said. It will be ground anchored marked and tracked.  

Best regards 

JeZ 

I'm looking at the salary sacrifice option with work for a new motor. Not sure it's going to be financially worthwhile, but I'm exploring (as I need a big car for dog carrying duties, camping etc.  Kia's EV9, and the Volvo EX90 seem to be the 2 options - at £££££ spendy and ££££££££££££££ spendy, respectively.  But 

But one thing I've not been able to understand yet is back to the home charger installation discussion.

Are there any requirements for being wired directly into the main distribution panel (consumer unit) of the house ? Or even immediately after the main supply fuse ? Or just suitably RCD protected with a suitable feed with the currect rating and circuit protection etc.

To explain - being in an old cottage built half a century before cars or electricity were known about, my drive / car standing is 10-15 yards from the house (other side of the garden), and also the entry of the electricity to the house + where the main supply fuse, main consumer unit, etc is on the opposite side of the house. 3ft thick stone walls without defined cavities, solid floor, exposed beams ceiling, etc.  So having a charger on the house and fed from the main consumer unit or entry point of the electricity into the property would be a complete PITA to be fitted -  (I'm not digging up the living room floor to get a cable from one side to the other !). A 2nd armoured feed could be done as the one to the garage currently is, around the periphery of the property,  but would be a pain as it would have to run probably 80 feet or more. 

But I have a detached garage adjacent to the car standing area. It  has a supply from the house (32A breaker on the main consumer unit) and a small 'satellite' consumer unit in the garage- with a 16A circuit breaker protected circuit for sockets and 6A for lighting.  

Can a charger be installed on the garage and connected to the garage supply (with an RCD in the path) ? Obviously it'll have to be limited to below 32A (something more like 22amp / 5kw, to give some margin on the 32Amain consumer unit breaker - as I don't want the garage freezer going off when the car is charging causing my reserves of butter pies all to defrost in 1 go!).  

I need a big car for dog carrying duties, camping etc.  Kia's EV9, and the Volvo EX90 seem to be the 2 option

There are a couple of estate car options - BMW i5 and VW iD7 that are a bit less behemothic.  And the iD Buzz.

I have a similar set up in the garage, had a couple of companies out to take a look at they both said 'yep, that'll work', so charger runs of Garage mini consumer unit. 

Oh, yeah, and  - ID.Buzz! 

I’ve got an ID7 tourer gtx on order, having considered the same ev9/ex90 thing. 

Got a Model Y loaner at the moment. Have to say I’m not a fan. Awful ride and steering, some super weird software choices (Audio doesn’t pause when reading a text etc), not a fan of the seats, the cruise control can be borderline dangerous in certain situations. I wouldn’t be even thinking about letting it steer! 

Cheers folks.  A couple more motors for me to go take a peek at then 👍 

I've joined the club: bought an e-niro yesterday, nice car with all the toys. The lane keeping thing was less intrusive than I feared, and adaptive cruise worked well in heavy traffic. I've switched our tariff to octopus intelligent go.

Posted by: robertajobb

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Obviously it'll have to be limited to below 32A (something more like 22amp / 5kw, to give some margin on the 32Amain consumer unit breaker

I'd check the rating of the cable to the garage, it may only be rated for the 16A CU (not sure why it would have 32A breaker in the main CU). Cable rating is significant with  the high continuous load from a charger.

Posted by: ransos

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I've joined the club: bought an e-niro yesterday, nice car with all the toys. The lane keeping thing was less intrusive than I feared, and adaptive cruise worked well in heavy traffic. I've switched our tariff to octopus intelligent go.

We picked up a 2021 one a couple of weeks ago too. Very happy with it. Our charger gets installed on Tuesday so won't need to use the granny charger 

On charging - I'm surprised there isn't more of an app or website where you can rent your charger out similarly to Park at my House or similar.

I'm going on holiday in the summer and the charging infrastructure is all in the nearby town, 4 miles away. I suspect that I'll need to use it a couple of times over the week, as the cottage we're renting has no charger (I know others have said they wouldn't rent one without, not always possible) - but there are houses with chargers in the village based on google drive-by's. I'd happily pay cost plus a premium to use one of them. 

Ive seen the Octopus electroverse show what looks like domestic chargers but not onboard yet as I dont have an installed ev charge point. My charge point installation is scheduled for 6 weeks time so going to granny charge until then.

Posted by: cheekymonkey888

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My charge point installation is scheduled for 6 weeks time so going to granny charge until then.

I've mentioned it before, but IOG will support a granny charger as long as they can control your car. I did this while waiting for my charger. That means you benefit from the low 7p rate for the whole time the car is charging so it's worth looking at now rather than waiting for your installation.

Posted by: theotherjonv

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On charging - I'm surprised there isn't more of an app or website where you can rent your charger out similarly to Park at my House or similar.

There is, somewhere. My other half out here charger on an app which allows 3rd parties to plug in and charge up. The house owner sets the price per KW and the app company gets a cut of the cash. She has only had one taker, an ioniq 5 which sat on her drive for 5hrs until full. 

I moved to IOG today and they need to installed teh app and add device. I just wondered how they can control the car using the 3pin. I have entered my reg and will plug in tonight. Fingers crossed they can see the draw.

You need to complete a test charge before the smart charging is enabled - that means adding your car in the app then selecting the appropriate 3 pin charger, then they do a quick check of everything and you're good to go. Until that's done you only get the cheap rate overnight.

Posted by: Greybeard

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Posted by: robertajobb

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Obviously it'll have to be limited to below 32A (something more like 22amp / 5kw, to give some margin on the 32Amain consumer unit breaker

I'd check the rating of the cable to the garage, it may only be rated for the 16A CU (not sure why it would have 32A breaker in the main CU). Cable rating is significant with  the high continuous load from a charger.

Cheers.

I'll double check before I get anything done.  The cable from the main consumer unit to the junction box (where the outdoors armoured cable is connected) I'm fairly sure is 6mm^2, and runs attached to an interior of a stone/ plastered wall then the solid floor (behind some kitchen cupboards).  So not grouped/bundled, and not in any insulation to cause it to be debated.

I'll need to double check the armoured cable that runs to the garage- though i think that's 6mm2 too. But wouldn't bet a (burned down) house on it. 

all really helpful as I didnt know you need to do that first. Head up for Renault owners that you need my renault app and mobilize installed and connect up to Octopus account details and somehow they all talk to the car via the connected services. I couldnt get the test charge working even though it was charging but will leave it overnight. The octopus app says its ready to go bar the test charge. Thanks for the heads up thepurist

My ID3 is in VW next week to have the rear lining and seats taken out to see if they can finally find what the weird intermittent knocking noise is that it has done since new and has been in twice before for this issue. It’s also having a new electronic engine noise sensor fitted as that’s failed and last week it keeps telling me to clean the front parking sensors even though they are clean so I’ve got to tell them they have failed when I drop it off.

The VW dealer also won’t replace the passenger side head light that constantly mist up on the inside as it clears even though that head light was replaced under warranty when the original did the same but had water running down on the inside. Apparently they submit the information into an online bot and that tells them if they can replace it or not?

And on a separate note on Friday I submitted a complaint at work about our leasing company on fitting cheap tyres. I had my 4th puncture in 18 months the last two caused by stones imbedded in the tyre and two of them have been on 60mph roads. Even the tyre garage has complained to the lease company they are not speccing the correct tyres for the vehicle.

Oh and I’ve got to get VW to fit a new wheel trim as that was lost when the tyre went and I’d be buggered I was going to walk down a 60mph road looking for it with traffic whizzing by.

My old Kia Soul puts this ID3 to shame in spec, handling and performance and that was as aerodynamic as a brick.

I just read an article (Eye 1643) about cross pavement charging and did a google. This cropped up first, I'm sure there are others.....

https://www.pavecross.com/

According to the article 40% of households have no off street parking and so struggle to charge EVs, half of those are in terraced houses and many have on street parking outside the house.

To install one takes under 2 hours with minimal disruption to the pavement, it's a channel about 3" deep. However, currently you have to get permission under the same (S50) regs / process as digging a hole in the road for eg: a gas main repair and councils charge up to £2900 for permission. That's if they allow it at all, roughly 5 in 6 don't allow at all.

Seems like a change to rules to consider some kind of permitted development should be allowed - as the article says, it's less rigorous to put an extension on your house than a <2 hour job for an EV charger.

This is pretty much exactly what i was talking about on the last page.

well, sort of.... the bit I was really highlighting is the cost and hurdles that a home owner has to go through when there's a simple, relatively cheap, <2hr solution. And that 5/6 of councils don't even entertain it.

We’ve had an id3 for nearly 4 years. End terrace house with no driveway. MrsL works in planning and I’m in sustainable development. 
We’ve pestered the council for solutions; volunteered ourselves as a case study, pointed out how many people like us are stuck and shown them solutions like kerbo and similar.

Nothing. They have no plan, no idea on how to make a plan or why they might need to. They have supplied a good public charging network to be fair to them but we have to pay 67p/kwh.

I love our car, it’s ace but it’ll be going back in the summer when the pcp ends. At the moment I really want another leccy car as anything else is a backwards step but it’ll have to be cheaper than the id3 to compensate for the charging costs.

Councils need central guidance and help to make home charging happen.

We’ve pestered the council for solutions; volunteered ourselves as a case study, pointed out how many people like us are stuck and shown them solutions like kerbo and similar.

Unless you're paying for it they will have neither the funds nor the interest to help you out.

The guidance to local authorities on on street residential charging using cross pavement channel solutions came out in December

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cross-pavement-solutions-for-charging-electric-vehicles/cross-pavement-solutions-for-charging-electric-vehicles

However, for most this isn’t a priority area of work. There is significant time required for the legal work, and the uptake at this point in time seems limited in some areas. In my LA area we’ve had enquiries from 3 residents, out of a population of 200k.

The current focus is on LEVI, where there was success in bidding for this, as this will provide on street public charge points. The big unknown being the tariff for these. As abou’ve, 55-80p/kwh isn’t close to the savings of residential rates, but this is how government have decided to invest. 

If LEVI = on street lamp post charging at >60p a KWh then that's a crazy approach compared to that neat in pavement solution leading from a home wallbox.  It completely dis-incentivises EV adoption. Both from an electricity cost and availability perspectiv.  How would you ever be able to guarantee an overnight charge ahead of needing your car next morning, when 1 lamp post point has to serve what, 5+ cars either side on a terrace row?

House owner, low overnight tariffs and even solar installation are what make EVs and general households become more sustainable in terms of energy use.

Councils need central guidance and help to make home charging happen

They'd need it fully funded by central government to even consider it. Most councils are struggling to provide the legal bare minimum services these days, funding something like kerb-side EV charging infrastructure just isn't feasible.

They'd need it fully funded by central government to even consider it. Most councils are struggling to provide the legal bare minimum services these days, funding something like kerb-side EV charging infrastructure just isn't feasible.

In this version the ask isn't on councils to provide it - it's for them to allow it. If you live in a terraced house and want to install a charger, at present the hurdles make it a real faff, even if the council allows it full stop. A quick google suggests about £1000 for a cross pavement gulley, on top I assume of the £900 odd for the charger itself. So double, but not impossible if you want to have a home charger.

But at present you need the same approval granted as if you were digging the whole road up, for a job that takes under 2 hours. Incl, so the article says, a £2900 fee for the application.

Now, councils might be thinking cha-ching! to overcome their deficits but that's another matter. It should be permitted development, just get on with it.

@cheekymonkey888

Posted by: cheekymonkey888

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I saw these E motorbike guys at the Excel at the weekend https://international.naxeontech.com/

They are being sold from a distributor from the Wirral. Looks great and would be a decent choice of commuting vehicle.

Ive finally settled on a Indra smart lux charger for home which should work with either car or bike in the future.

I liked the idea that I could charge conventionally or by wall charger plus I could take the batteries out to render the bike less value.

I found it ironic from some of the rest of the chats people complaining about charging points then not thinking of solutions like these. It means you can keep your old ICE car for longer, but use EV for shorter journeys like commuting and me just getting around North Somerset because it's filled with Nimby's lol

Have you seen the flying flea:

https://flyingflea.royalenfield.com/uk/en/home

The Naxeon looks like a two wheeled C5 lol but cool. I liked the retro classic look to be honest but the thing that sold me was the removable batteries to charge out of the bike at the office 😉 and no queues or fights for the EV points that i see lol

JeZ

Just started with a new company a few weeks ago and the company car policy is fairly open, however most of the relatively small fleet are EV's. So, it appears I might end up going down that route. I'm still not sold on EV's as this job can entail 250+ miles in a day and I'd rather not drive with range anxiety. However, one of the guys in the team recently took delivery of a Renault Scenic EV. Very nice car tbh, and he regularly gets over 250 miles between charges. So he says.

It completely dis-incentivises EV adoption. Both from an electricity cost and availability perspectiv. How would you ever be able to guarantee an overnight charge ahead of needing your car next morning, when 1 lamp post point has to serve what, 5+ cars either side on a terrace row?

Yeah it's not ideal.  In theory it shouldn't be so much of an issue: 57% of cars do less than 100 miles a week, so would probably only need charging a couple of times a month? In practise, I can see it there being people like those weird obsessives who insist on having their parking space right ouside their house.  They'd hog the lamp post every night, just in case they unexpectedly need to drive to Aberdeen tomorrow

I'm still not sold on EV's as this job can entail 250+ miles in a day and I'd rather not drive with range anxiety

Then don't.  On the motorway network, recharging is an absolute doddle. If I drive 2hrs to my office I pass something like 100 chargers each way.

On the motorway network, recharging is an absolute doddle

Agreed... Having just driven several hundred miled from East Sussex, Chunnel, France, Belguim, and to the Netherlands, and back... The limiting factor in 'making non stop progress' was bladders and bellies!

My car realistically does about 220 miles at motorway speeds fully packed, and i was literally getting frustrated at how fast the 'expensive motorway services electricity' was going into the car whilst we grabbed a bite and a pee! I was hoping to charge for cheap(er... 50cent compared to 64cent) at my destination!

DrP

EDIT - as a counter to teh EV situation - the only time I think i'd miss my Octavia (which could get near to 550 miles from a tank) is when I've got a few bikes on the roof. EVs are so efficient, that anything that deducts from that efficiency REALLY eats into the range...
I reckon with 2 bikes on the roof, my range (motorway speed) would drop to 150 miles.. This could make cross country biking trips a bit more of a faff.

DrP

Posted by: molgrips

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I'm still not sold on EV's as this job can entail 250+ miles in a day and I'd rather not drive with range anxiety

Then don't.  On the motorway network, recharging is an absolute doddle. If I drive 2hrs to my office I pass something like 100 chargers each way.

The deployment of chargers is getting better, but there are still large areas with poor coverage. 

A recent journey to cornwall was fine with plenty of chargers on the way (although i wonder what it would be like in summer - waiting a lot?)

We drove to Cornwall from Manchester last August, charging was fine. Set off on Saturday am, First stop at Gloucester Services for breakfast and used the tesla chargers, second stop at Exeter but found they were all busy, so carried on for another 50 miles or soto some tesla chargers in small village in Cornwall. Once we arrived in Fowey I plugged it into some slow chargers in the public car park for an overnight charge

Did the reverse on the way back, it was all pretty uneventful. 

Discovered an issue with my EV yesterday.  

My dad is pretty ill at present and at one point yesterday i thought i may need to rush off on a 230 mile trip to the hospital.  My car would do that in one go but i wouldnt have much left and i would be desperate for a recharge.  However i only had 70% in at the time so i would have needed a charge before setting off as well.

In the end i had my wifes car as back up instead so no issue.  It all came to nothing as i wasnt needed to travel but it highlighted that i could have been in a bit of a pickle as i sometimes run it for a week on 50% or less.  I also dont think having to stop for 45mins charge on a last second mission to see my dying father is a good state of affairs.  

Anyhow, it didnt come to that and i had a back up but for 10 minutes i was trying to fathom how i was going to do it.

I made a similar point earlier in the thread. Its all very well making jokes about how people always think they need to drive to Aberdeen towing a caravan non stop etc but actually if your car is sitting on 50-60% which is fairly common and you need to do an emergency dash of 200+ miles which is also fairly common then it could easily be 2 charges plus needing to find one when you get there which might not be convenient depending on the situation. I too have very elderly parents four counties away, as I expect many do here who can call me in the middle of the night and I need to jump in the car. I also have a vulnerable daughter who is studying on the other side of the country and the only way she can do that is knowing I'm an emergency car journey away.

Its not the planned journeys that are the issue - I'd happily set out for the Netherlands or Germany on holiday without a second thought, its the unplanned ones....

Discovered an issue with my EV yesterday.  

 

My dad is pretty ill at present and at one point yesterday i thought i may need to rush off on a 230 mile trip to the hospital.

I would hope this isn't a regular occurrence, and if your dad has been ill for a little while, that's *probably* something you should plan for.

i.e. leave the car at 90% charge, set the charge target to that as well and leave it connected (it's not going to do any damage to the car). Then as soon as you know you've got to leave, knock the limit up to 100%, pack your shit and leave when it's at 93%.

Or have a back up, partners car, access to a hire car etc. Know where the chargers are at your destination and so on.

It's only an "issue" in that we've got incredibly used to the 100% availability and 3-5 minute refill time on ICE cars.

If either of my parents fall ill it's essentially a minimum of 24 hours to get to them, more likely 48... So i do feel your pain!

Have you got zero access to another car Winston?  In my instance it was more a case of me having not considered it before.  Once i had given it some thought it became apparent i needed to use the alternative car.  In the grand scheme of things, it didnt effect owning a EV for me and i suspect a huge majority of EV owners too.

but for 10 minutes i was trying to fathom how i was going to do it.

How much charge could you have put in the car in that 10 mins at your cars peak charging rate?

In that situation i’d have spent that 10 minutes hooked up to a 350kw charger somewhere along the way and whacked 40 odd percent into the battery. 

16.66kw at 100kw/h.  Not really enough to make a major impact on having to charge again.

Without the emergency situation its easy.  I am driving down tomorrow.  Have a stop at 150 miles to top back up which will take about 30 mins to put 50kw in.  Drive a further 100 miles to destination and arrive with 150 miles range.  Do my visit, come back to same charger with 50 miles range left.  Put in about 75kw which will take about 45mins and travel back.

It was extremely last minute and that was the only reason i highlighted the issue.  It hadnt occurred to me.  Not even an issue going forward.

The Polestar managed 2.8miles/KWh while in my care and I drove it like my gran. 
I lost count of the number of times it failed to unlock with the fob and the various software issues included the dash not powering up, the heads up display not working despite the main display saying it was on, the cameras not initialising, the car losing the fob in the time it took me to open the door and sit in the drivers seat and other faults that I can’t remember off the top of my head. 

The Pilot Assist is really good when it works. 

Polestar 2 here since the start of December so for balance.

I have done 4000 miles in really crappy weather. I live in a hilly part of Cumbria where my old mpg was always noticeably lower than when I was staying in other parts of the country. I travel mainly between Manchester and central belt Scotland. The car has managed 3.5miles/KWh and too often the ease of the speed means I am not driving like my Nan.

Absolutely no issues to report so far

Bit of advice wanted/sanity check. My wife's MG4 (standard range) is on a 2 year PCP contract finishing May. We've been really happy with it other than its incessant bonging and the mildly annoying info system. We're not interested in buying the contract (it's prob worth at least 20% less than the settlement price). 

We're sticking with electric. She'd like a rear wiper and heated seats, and MG are keen to keep our custom. They've offered us some very good deals on the Trophy which has both of these.. Apparently the MG4 is going to get refreshed soon-ish but she's happy with the car if it had those extras. She also is thinking of the longer range which is mad as 95% of the time we home charge and we have my trusty Skoda ICE as well. Which I need to change but that's another post.

We did look at what else came in near/close to the deal MG have offered. Not much is the answer, maybe the new R5 but she doesn't like that at all (whereas I love it, but it's not my car/choice).

I really cannot be a$$$$d to go car shopping if I don't have to. MG does loads of short journeys, a few longer (120ish return) and a very occasional 250+. It's done 16k in two years and we don't expect that to increase. We've also two big doggos that need to fit in any replacement but again it's only for 15 mins max, once or twice a day. As you can see they are very happy with the MG4!

so TLDR- go car shopping (maybe look 2nd hand) or take the deal that seems to be better than anything else we can get with the stuff we want. I think you can probably tell what my view is...

You don’t say what the total cost for running an MG4 for two years and 16,000 miles was, but I think that’s the crucial part. 

Look at what it would cost to buy, say, a two year old MG4 trophy with less than 20k on the clock. Then look at the price of a four year old one with less than 40k (or 1 and 3 years at 10k vs 30k if you prefer). How does that compare with what it would cost on a PCP deal?

That's a good shout. I think "not much" based on our Octopus Tariff but I have all that data in my Home Automation stats 🙂 We could certainly buy a used one for cash if a lot of its value has already gone. I'd expect we'd keep it at least 3 years and then give it to one of the offspring. 

Definitely worth investigating. 

An engineer who works for me has had a Polestar 2 for few years now.  His other car is a nice 911.  No complaints from him, nor the other people I know with them, but he's a decent reference point.

(Engineer in this context means senior, mechanical and electrical, not software or other faux  )

LRDM Polestar driver here. its an early model so NOT super efficient (we had an eNiro prior to the P2) but I knew that would be the case and in reality it costs a couple of quid more a week to run.  cracking car only let down but its shoddy infotainment system.

Polestar 2 LRDM with performance upgrade here... running Bridgestone all lseason tyres on 19" rims (which, i think, has stolen a bit of range..)

Did a 700+ mile round trip to the netherlands and back last week..averaged 35.6kWh/100miles... so just under 3miles/kWh. 

I knew the polestar wasn't the most efficient car, but in reality didn't really affect the drive as we had to stop to pee and eat.

Also...this wednesday I spent the morning in a DIY garage type place (which was SOOO much fun, and something I've always wanted to do!) taking out the old suspension components and fitting KW coilovers! Just cos!

Yeah, I'm a big kid at heart really!

DrP