The new electric BMW 3 series is out for review today. I think it will be a big hit with the sal-sac folk.
They've only show the top of the range one so far but it's a pretty impressive spec. 559 mile range, 463 BHP, 249 miles added in 10 mins of charging (if you can find a 400KW charger).
I'll be interested to see how these "mega range" cars fare in the long term.
I can see the logic. If you are selling a luxury car and you are marketing to a group of people who like to have bragging rights at a time when all the conversation around EVs centres on range and charging then I can see how this might sell well.
On the other hand, my personal experience is that, even my measly 370 odd miles of WLTP range is plenty. The car is never the limiting factor in practice and a car with a longer range is just a car that is more expensive and heavier than I need.
My hunch is that, given the option, people will always plump for more range (and faster charging) whether they need it or not. But if my hunches were any good I wouldn't be wasting time posting messages on here 😀
In a car like that the battery isn't for ultimate range it's so you can tank it down the autobahn for more than 5s.
Fair point. I guess the calculation of how much range you need changes if you are doing 150mph on the autobahn 😀
Fair point. I guess the calculation of how much range you need changes if you are doing 150mph on the autobahn 😀
Yeah even at 130 KM/H the range of most EVs is 20% or more under their WLTP (nearly 50% under in some cases!). Plus the second stint is typically only from ~80% of total possible battery since charging speed drops off over that.
It matters more on the continent where you can actually do the speed limit for an hour without having to keep dropping to 40 MPH for active speed limit sections, some divvy going along in the middle lane at 50 for no reason etc.
I drive to the south of France reasonably often so I'm more exposed to motorway range than most, but even for me, I think with 400KW charging I'd rather have a smaller/cheaper/lighter battery and just stop more often.
I've bored myself countless times and I've mentioned it a few times here, but I came from a Peugeot Partner 1.6 diesel that did 680 miles per tank regardless of how much was in it or the weather conditions.
I'm now in an EV that gives me a range between 170 and 250 miles depending entirely on the weather.
My next EV, I'm wanting a minimum of 275 usable miles...so happily get much more in warmer weather, but I'm finding the frequent recharges a mild inconvenience - don't have a home charger, so it is public for almost all my recharging.
It isn't bad but it isn't quick. I happily trundle along at 65 instead of 70 on motorways, but I am finding the variance in distance annoying.
don't have a home charger, so it is public for almost all my recharging.
TBH, i'd say in this situation an EV isn't the right car for you... NOT having home charging practically negates all the positives of an EV.
My Polestar (launch edition, so 2021) really only does 200-220 miles. However, unless i'm heading for a track day or wanting to travel a few hundred miles with a bike on teh roof a few times a year, It's ZERO bother as my daily average is 30-50 miles of driving, so just plug in at home.
DrP
I've said a few times that range/charging are a non-issue for me and that's true. But it's also true that (being the analytic fellow I am) I spent many months analysing the numbers. Looking at the journeys I actually did, the ones I might want to do, the actual ranges of cars (summer and winter, city and motorway) on ev-database, the estimated number of stops for different cars/routes on sites like ABRP etc. I came to the conclusion that (for me) a WLTP range around 350 miles was the sweet-spot. Much less than that and I would probably have to stop before I wanted to on some journeys, which would get annoying. Much more than that and I'm paying more than I need to for a car that is heavier (and therefore less fun to drive) than it needs to be.
That's all very logical though. But, if I had the option to buy an EV with a 600 mile range, would I actually turn that down. I suspect I would as I think I'd still prefer a smaller, lighter can with a 350 mile range to a monster with a 600 mile range. But I can see a lot of people being drawn to the mega-range. Especially while EV chat is still dominated by discussions of range and charging.
By the way, I got to experience the effect of different motorway speeds over the Christmas break when I was doing the semi-regular 500 mile each way trip to visit the inlaws. I expected range to be a fair bit lower than it was in the summer (colder, worse weather) but in practice the extra congestion over the holiday period meant I couldn't drive as fast and range ended up being pretty much the same. I calculated that the car could still have done the trip with two stops, although I actually took three because it's not much fun driving long stints in the rain and the dark.
I know car prices are high & have been for a while, but my main take away from that 3-series article is that the expected price for the entry level car is going to be almost £50k. For an entry level 3-series 😄🤷♂️
I am so out of touch.
I think the list price is pretty much immaterial these days, the majority of them will be on work deal leases, using salary sacrifice or similar. Private ones will be on private lease deals. My last ev was a bmw i4 on a work deal. Its list price was about 65k, the net monthly cost to me was about £100 more than a more modest car, Skoda Enyaq in basic spec for example.
Some of us still like to buy so just price is still relevant to me.
I test drove a 5 yesterday (iconic with the more powerful motor). It was very nice, riders nicely and feels nippy. Nice and behaved on the motorway and had enough poke that it didn't feel like you shouldn't be there. It does not feel small and I really liked sitting in the cabin. Visibility better than the Zoe. On the back roads it felt fun. Very impressed. Was not so impressed with the dealers staff member so likely to go elsewhere to buy. Now looking for a suitable nearly new one. I'd love the green colour but don't think it is available in the higher power/trim.
You probably already know this but the Frontera is built on the same platform as the Citroen c3 air cross under the stelantis banner.
Hopefully it's a better built vehicle this time round.
Yeah it's a calculated risk - but we're in warranty and it's from a dealer (which means courtesy car and their problem) - and I know they've switched some parts about since 2022.
Don’t be so sure about that . My 11 month old buzz is in due to a cascade error fault and all their loaners are out until end of April !!
I can go to the end of the week ( tomorrow ) without it , then I’m going to need a vehicle, so will have to look at what options I have. Google tells me that dealers do not have to offer courtesy cars , even for warrant work.
It matters more on the continent where you can actually do the speed limit for an hour without having to keep dropping to 40 MPH for active speed limit sections,
I dunno, when I was in Germany the 80km/h limits were plentiful - on one trip they were for every underpass the road went through - and they come up pretty fast when you've been doing 200km/h.
But then other autobahn stretches you can be well over 100mph for a hour.
I have decided to go to N Wales at the weekend in the EV despite the fact it's not as good of a drive. I just don't think I can justify using the diesel when I can avoid it given the current situation! It's about 180 miles up there and my car's indicated range is likely to be about 195 given the weather. I'll be under time pressure because I will have to drive up and back and I want a decent amount of time to climb. So my dilemma is whether or not I drive up without stopping and charge on the way home. I'll be tight, but it might be fun to try 🙂
I have decided to go to N Wales at the weekend in the EV
Cross country from the south or motorway then a55?
Senic route via Aberystwyth has the Tesla chargers.
I'm sure you know all the options and all the routes.
What would we buy for £5k?It will be a second car.
It needs to charge overnight from a 3 pin plug. Range of 20 miles is ok. The ability to warm the car up remotely would be useful.
Big enough to put a full sus e-bike in the back with seats down.
Small town car rather than motorway basher.
As new a leaf as you can find.
Unlikely to get remote warming as they are discontinuing the app for pre 2019 cars.
Take leaf spy and a obd dongle to check battery health. Milage isn't the enemy. Age and fast charging are. Leaf spy pro tells you number of fast charges completed.
We had a test drive in a Kia Soul the other week (27 kWh battery). It was 9 years / 36,000 miles old and still felt like new. Not too much tech so a very easy swap from a regular car (a gearstick in the usual place to select drive). Much more solid and better ride / road noise than the Inster we tried directly before it. They are around for £5-7k. Range didn't work for us but would otherwise have bought it for commuting.
+1 on a Leaf, possibly an Ionic.
Leaf - a colleague has a £4k Leaf, very similar use to your description. Costs buttons to run and Just Works.
Brother in NZ has an elderly Hyundai Ionic electric. Superb for the age/tech that's in it. It's barely lost any battery life. Seems a tad nicer that the older Leaf to sit in.
Last week my work colleague had his Enyaq completely die on him. He was a fair way from home and so rung a local Skoda garage who said they could take a look at it - got the AA to relay it there only to find they didn't have the right diagnostic tech.....AA wouldn't move it again so now he has to hire a flat bed to get it somewhere else, except no where local (he is in Devon) has space/the right tech/somebody who knows about EVs blah blah so currently its just sitting there miles from home while he desperately tries to find alternative transport for his wife to get the kids to school. He bought it used 18 months ago (for about 27k) and its now 3.5 years old so 6 months out of warranty.... on the same day one of our reps came in driving some tiny courtesy car - his company Enyaq (85X) had bricked a couple of weeks ago and what they initially thought was a simple 12v battery problem has turned out to be some module that needs replacing, for which there is a 6 week wait....and a £1000 plus bill which will be covered by warranty but even so its an expensive car which is only a year old!
I know that car breakdowns are not exclusive to EVs but it does seem to be a whole new level of pain and expense when an EV goes wrong. There was a time from say late 90's to about 2015 when new cars just didn't do this. You bought a Skoda Octavia or a Ford Mondeo or a BMW X3 and it just worked - maybe the odd minor issue but certainly something that takes a car off the road for months at a time.
No one remember dual mass fly wheels arriving or common rail fuel pumps and injectors.
Both were fun and common bills.
In the early 90s catalytic converters provided your bill.
So common they came twice.. double post.
See also canbus wiring introduction.
Yes I think the sweet spot of diesel car longevity was around the dirty 2000s - galvanised body shells and pre common rail eg PSA XUD etc.
Euro 4 brought lots of EGR for NOx reduction which gunged things up, then Euro 5 brought DPFs, then Euro 6 reduced the amount of EGR by dealing with the NOx using SCR / Adblue. No cars are simple anymore. And Euro 7 isn't far away....
Petrol cars are worse for efficiency and still arguably have small particle emission issues.
Hybrids have double the powertrain parts.
EVs are the simple solution.
After my test drive the other day we've agreed a deal on a ex demo 5 iconic. Very much looking forward to delivery later in the week. Only down side is trade in on the Zoe was not great so I've that to sell privately instead (or wbac). Got to decide if we buy the battery lease out first.
EVs are the simple solution.
🤔
Not convinced by that even as someone close to switching one of their household cars to one.
Clearly they can brick themselves and based on this thread alone knowledge of bricked EVs is patchy in the dealer networks
They're at least as rammed with technology and sensors as a new ICE car so it's highly probable that the more general modern car problem of relatively modest accidents making cars economic write offs due to the cost of all that stuff in the ends of the car is going to be at least as pervasive in the EV space and that's before any battery damage issues.
Still want one but eyes open, lots of other positives and all that.
What would we buy for £5k?It will be a second car.
Not sure if you can get an Ioniq for that but they are much better cars all round and have far more reliable batteries.
Re EV reliability, they are overall more reliabile apparently. However I think the real issue is supply chain and dealer skills. We had a brake module fail, as I think I said - but it took a couple of weeks for the tech to come from head office and 6 more for the part to arrive. That has nothing to do with it being electric. Although apparently it's common across the industry now?
Got to decide if we buy the battery lease out first.
😬 I went through that pain 18 months ago.
My advice is to get the quote from Renault to buy it out and then advertise it as 2 prices - 1 where you buy it and 1 where the buyer buys it.
IIRC there was a scenario where you could sell the car and still be responsible for the battery rental until their battery purchase completes - and if they are less than scrupulous, they can delay/avoid putting the forms in and there is nothing you can do. And of course the buyer is concerned that they will end up buying the battery for a car they don't own until all the pieces are in place. All theoretical, but was an absolute pain in the neck/stress fest until it finally went through.
In the end I think I sold it and let the buyer buy the battery, but I made sure all the paperwork for battery purchase was completed by the buyer and I had copies before I handed over the V5.
At one point, I thought that trading it in would be the best option, but the advice/information I got from the dealer I briefly considered, didn't match the published guidance or the commonest view being spouted on the internet.
I'm glad I don't have to go through that again.
Thanks, think that is the line we will go down. I got a price for the battery on Friday. Getting stuck paying the lease is the one that worries me if we ended up selling it to WBAC or a dealer. Mobalize seem to suggest you don't release the vehicle till the battery lease transfer is complete. Intention is to advertise for less than the current cheapest equivalent and hope for a quick sale (it's way under average miles and a better higher spec which should help). Need to clean it first though for pictures.
Take a look at Motorway as an alternative to WBAC. I've sold two cars through them now and been very impressed with price, which was much higher than trade in, and convenience. I did have a third car which they wouldn't touch though so I guess it really just depends which cars are in demand and they can move on quickly.
Any experience on here of the Astra estate? It fits the bill for what I want and priced ok. Reviews are boringly decent, but I'm not after anything exciting so still fits the bill.
Has anybody gone outside of the main dealer for servicing an EV that is still in warranty?
My Kia EV3 is due for its first (20,000 mile) service pretty soon. I used the Kia app to book a service yesterday evening, which all seemed very slick. But I got a call from Arnold Clark this morning to say that the slot I had booked wasn't actually available, which was a bit annoying. The earliest they can fit it in is next Friday, by which time there is a risk that I might have ticked over 20k, which could have implications for the warranty down the line I think. Plus they want £320 for the service!
On the other hand, there is a HEVRA certified garage much closer to my office who "only" charge £110 for an EV service and reckon they can do it on Monday. Sounds like a no brainer, but I've always used the main dealer for servicing cars until the warranty expires in the past.
No experience with non main dealer service I'm afraid but I have exactly the same with the Kia app, it doesnt talk to the dealers so you book and then they tell you its not available. I wouldnt worry too much about it being slightly over the 20k but the cost does seem a little high. Is that just the standard service or is it also due coolant swap (with unicorn tears)?
Thanks @mrchrispy
It's just whatever Kia think needs doing at 20k. The price difference might not be quite as high as I first thought. I've now spoken to the HEVRA garage and apparently I need a "manufacturer service" rather than just the "EV service" that I booked in order to maintain the warranty. I get the feeling that the latter is what they think is needed and the former is whatever the manufacturer thinks is needed. The guy on the phone seemed the think that it wouldn't make much difference to the price though and I seem to recall (from some dim recess of my mind) that the coolant flush is at 40k not 20k.
The £110 originally quoted was basically to strip and lubricate the brakes plus a load of checks.
I think I'll give the independent guys a go, just because they can fit it in sooner and are much closer (saving me a trip across town and meaning I can come back to the office while they do the job rather than kicking my heals at the dealer). Let's see if I live to regret this😀