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It's not that big of a deal really. Some cells have higher voltages than others, so the battery pack is constantly charging the low cells from the higher ones - or at least, when it's plugged in. I'm not exactly sure on when it happens. But when the charge is very low or very high the cell differences are greatest, so the cells balance more effectively. It is suggested on the Leaf forums that having the car sit at high charge or low charge for a few hours helps this process. However, I really don't think it matters much on most cars. You almost certainly don't have to worry about it, it's just for people who want to nerd out (or can't help it).
It’s strange, the mg4 looks superb in pics, but in person they look quite ordinary. Something about the proportions makes it look dumpy.
A lot of manufacturers have either the biggest damn wheel and tyre combo available in any market on the display/photoshoot cars, or use wheels that are actually (slightly) too big on the marketing shots. There have also been cases where they muck around with the suspension to make the car sit slightly lower. (On the massive wheels).
They also light them really well.
You don't need to do anything special to balance the cells. Even the shittiest out of date EVs will balance the cells as soon as you connect an external power supply. The battery controller will do it all for you. And in newer cars will flag an internal fault if a battery is hard to balance, or an external fault if it can't be balanced.
It's not a toy car where you might, on occasion, need to intervene and balance them yourself.
Question:-
My son is doing increasing business mileage for work - he works for an IT Solution's business so is often at clients - all local within the region, but can be clocking up over 100-150 miles a day. Currently using his own vehicle as he's not quite old enough to use the company electric cars (only a van and a corsa - boss has a leccy Porsche). His line manager is using both vehicles as the range is poor, often returning to the office to swap vehicles whilst the other charges.
Now, here in lies the issue. Son needs to ask about 'charging' and re-imbursement - We don't have an electric car as neither of us (his parents) do enough miles to make it worthwhile - I do 3k a year, wife 5k.
I'm not, however, going to stump up charging a car from a plug at near 30p KWh - assuming it needs maybe 30KW overnight, that's about £10 per night. Even at a cheap overnight rate I'd be looking at £3-4 per day, plus increased daytime tariff (our house is occupied 24/7 so leccy use is pretty constant during the day.
How do other's claim back for business miles in company cars - is it much the same. Given most of the 'charge' will be business use as he has his own car.
My employer gives out a flat 11p/mile or something, based purely on mileage. It doesn't matter where you charge, so if you charge at home you're quids in, but at a rapid you could be quids out. Wouldn't matter if I charged at my parents' house. Not sure of the legality of this mind.
Assumptions as it's not clear from your post.
1. Son is going to be using one of the electric vehicles soon;
2. Son is going to be bringing it home; and
3. Son is going to need to charge it.
Simples, charge at the office/base or get them to provide a card for him to charge at a public charger.
Alternatively, get them to install a charger at your house, switch to a car friendly tariff and then charge back leccy used by looking at the web interface/app.
Ah ok.
Everyday a school day etc. It probably gets 100% every 5-6 weeks so no need to change anything!
@oldtennisshoes Sorry, yes to all three. He's being put on the insurance (was over 25's so lowering it to 23), most likely it will come home, and it will be need charging.
The other option is that he leaves the vehicle at the office, but that could be a 30 mile round trip if he's out at clients first/last thing - often travels straight from home.
Alternatively, get them to install a charger at your house, switch to a car friendly tariff
I wouldn't do that - you could be out of pocket the rest of the time. They either pay you for your costs (30p/kWh) or do something else.
Everyday a school day etc
Yeah listen to mert though, they know a lot more than me.
HMRC advisory fuel rates are 9p a mile for electric at the moment, so a typical efficiency car (about 3.4 mi/kwh) would be covered at 30p/kWh. If he's doing big enough days that he needs to do much rapid charging that can tip it past that though. If he's bringing it home then it's a company car not a pool car so would be subject to BIK, although that's still very low on EVs.
Been for a test drive in this today, what an unbelievably nice car. Hovering over whether to buy or not. 219 mile range is a sticking point though
I wouldn’t do that – you could be out of pocket the rest of the time.
You could, but it depends on the tariff and how many personal miles he does.
219 miles isn't a lot of range these days, STR. Did you check your kWh/mile during the test to find out what your real world range is ? If the performance was part of what you liked I think you might be disappointed because big lumps like that are flattered by the test protocols and greedy if the performance available is used.
Everything you've posted on ICE threads says you won't like a car that passes everything except a charge point.
Been for a test drive in this today, what an unbelievably nice car
Theres a big thread running on pistonheads on those
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=247&t=2042333
The consensus is that if the range works for you, then they're decent. The usual flaky VW software is also present.
Real world range for a 55 seems to be about 200 miles, or 150miles for a 50 with the smaller battery.
Been for a test drive in this today, what an unbelievably nice car. Hovering over whether to buy or not. 219 mile range is a sticking point though
I ran one (a 55) for 9 months. Range was of about 200 miles ish is about right - a bit more in summer, a bit less in the winter.
It was a very nice thing indeed - properly comfy and luxurious. Not even slightly sporty - almost every driving sensation has been removed I thought, so you just waft along in silence and comfort. It is however very capable - goes around corners surprisingly well for such a big heavy thing (I guess the low battery helps) and is very quick in a straight line.
I was really happy to change for an i4 as the range didn't work for me, but if most of your driving is within the range then I would be quite happy to own one.
200 miles of range is ok, as long as charging speed is decent enough. Basically you're stopping every three hours, which personally I'd do anyway just to eat, piss and buy coffee - not necessarily in that order.
Speaking of short range cars, I bought the Ioniq today, it's in unbelievably good nick for having done 73k miles. They also seem to have been working on the app and the software as it's all nice and slick now. I was even able to de-register the old driver and re-register myself in minutes whilst sat in the car. The range and efficiency seem to be exactly as they were in our previous leased one which was brand new.
200 miles of range is ok, as long as charging speed is decent enough. Basically you’re stopping every three hours, which personally I’d do anyway just to eat, piss and buy coffee – not necessarily in that order.
I believe the Audi is pretty efficient at charging
My work journeys (for when I'd use it for work - wouldn't be all the time) usually tend to be just shy of 200 - obviously there will be the odd one where I have to stop. The main contractor has free charging on site.
Family get aways tend to be in the caravan, so the Disco would still be used for that.
Other than that, there's a couple of 75kw chargers near my house (79p/kw Osprey) if I need a boost and would go Intelligent Octopus
Undecided - it's a bit of an extravagance tbh. With the plummeting residuals, I'd probably get a 2year PCP and hand it back - treat it like a lease
If your journeys are just shy of 200 in a 219 km car you're going to be down to the last 10% which for me is when things start feeling uncomfortable because you become very dependant on the charger you're intending to use working. I usually plan charges at around 20% which leaves plenty of range to go on to a working charger if the first one isn't working. In an Etron I'd expect a between charge range of 100-150 miles depending on the speed limits and weather.
In the Zoé which is 245 miles wltp I generally do 120-180 miles between charges and have never done more than 210 miles before charging except on the last leg before charging at home. Edit: or any other place you know the charger will be working such as your contractors.
@edukator . please explain this to my OH!!
She's got the LEAF now..for ages I was politely trying to show her how to charge it etc etc. She showed no interest.
Amazingly, a few weeks ago she managed to get home with...ZERO percent battery...! I think she actually had 0.001% a few miles away from home, but this was at the top of a long gradual hill decline, so relied on teh car keeping itself going purely on regen!!
She was used to ICE cars when "empty fuel tank = meh, another 30 miles left i reckon.."!
DrP
The main contractor has free charging on site.
…which will be AC most likely. Max 11kw.
Charging an almost flat 95kwh battery to get you home is going to take a long time. Hope you’re working 12 hour shifts
For that kind of money and your specific usage requirements I’d by looking at something with better range and faster charging. (And probably Korean ‘coz they’re currently smashing it out of the park EV wise. Saw my first Kia EV9 on Wednesday and I want one)
…which will be AC most likely. Max 11kw.
Charging an almost flat 95kwh battery to get you home is going to take a long time. Hope you’re working 12 hour shiftsFor that kind of money and your specific usage requirements I’d by looking at something with better range and faster charging. (And probably Korean ‘coz they’re currently smashing it out of the park EV wise. Saw my first Kia EV9 on Wednesday and I want one)
Journey to current site = 184 miles (stated range for etron = 219, but real world is obviously considerably less). I'm quite good at gentle driving on long journeys. Had over 50mpg out of both Discovey 4 & 5's - 3l 6cyl diesels.
Mon-Fri is then spent on site with journey home on Friday (sometimes visit a different site). Don't mind the odd stop at a rapid charger anyway.
The other car on the list is an EV6 GT - will feel like pov spec after the Audi though
DrP
Amazingly, a few weeks ago she managed to get home with…ZERO percent battery…! I think she actually had 0.001% a few miles away from home, but this was at the top of a long gradual hill decline, so relied on teh car keeping itself going purely on regen!!
If you watch some of the carwow range tests that they sometimes do (I'm Matt Watson & you're watching Carwow etc) they quite often get down to "0%" and have to drive in ever decreasing circles until it stops. Some of them go surprisingly far on an 'empty' battery - typically something like 8-10 miles.
Just get her 4 AAs to whack in the glovebox.
EV6 GT
Nice car.. if i hadn't got the Polestar, that would have been on my list. The true GT (not jsut GT line) is something like 570BHP!!
DrP
The other car on the list is an EV6 GT – will feel like pov spec after the Audi though
Have a look at a Genesis GV60 Sports plus if you want to make the Audi look a bit bare.
My absolute povvy spec GV60 is plusher and better equipped than the raft of mid spec Audi Q4’s in our car park.
Have a look at a Genesis GV60 Sports plus if you want to make the Audi look a bit bare.
My absolute povvy spec GV60 is plusher and better equipped than the raft of mid spec Audi Q4’s in our car park.
This is a £100k+ Audi list with almost every option ticked. I can't really think of anything it hasn't got
I think you'll have to trundle along with the trucks to get to to site on one change in Summer STR, 70mph and you'll get there with 1% or less. Above 55mph EVs drop below wltp figures and at 70mph an etron is around 180miles under the most favourable conditions.
Edit: it hasn't got either colour or style, STR. It's black, chrome and boring. 😋 I loved some the first generation EVs because they dared to be different. When bought the second Zoé I said to the salesman " it's gone black Germanic and boring and everything I touch is going to burn me if I leave it in the sun - I like these new piano switches though" The Etron does still have switches - that's good.
I had a 3 day test of the Audi Q4 sportback with a view to getting one as a co car.
It was really nice but the 319mile range seemed mingy, so 200 is really low.
And £950 for a heat pump? It should be standard
Above 55mph EVs drop below wltp figures and at 70mph an etron is around 180miles under the most favourable conditions.
according to evdb (which I have found to be accurate) , the etron 55 will do 205 miles at 70mph in warm weather, this drops to 165 miles in -10c (but still at 70 mph), so I suspect your assertion of 180 miles in favourable conditions at 70mph is a bit pessimistic.
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1355/Audi-e-tron-55-quattro
I can’t really think of anything it hasn’t got
300 miles of range? 😉
American real-world testing, julians. InsideEVs
so spent last week driving my first EV - a mach-e. I was in Phoenix for work and got given it as a free upgrade to a "corolla or similar" as I wanted something easy to put my bike in. I did around 600 miles in 6 days. Thoughts :
it's rapid - both in a straight line (it was the dual motor, so 0-60 in the 5s) - but particularly when driving along when its always responsive - its a bit like driving everywhere in 2nd I guess. Pulling out to overtake traffic on a 2-lane road by planting your foot, once you're level with the car you're passing its easy to be in triple figures if you don't take care.
the self-driving stuff was good. It didn't do full self-drive but would happily steer and power itself along windy roads or freeways. It'd decelerate ahead of a speed limit reduction (even before the sign was visible, so I guess using satnav) so you went into the zone at exactly the right speed, which was nice
the entertainment system with a big vertical screen was nice and responsive on android auto, although it was a bit slow to start up. The car bonged about seatbelts from the moment you turned it on, which was annoying as I normally turn-on-then-seatbelt (to allow the car to sort itself). Cameras all around including a 360 camera when parking was nice. Sound system was strong
Space-wise, it feels airy inside and is fairly spacious, maybe a little bigger than a mondeo. Seats down there's just room for a long trailbike with both wheels on, but its easier to take one off. The back of the boot is fairly shallow due to the overall liftback shape
Charging was a ballache. The mach-e charges fairly fast (120kw), but not really fast, it also drops right off after 80% - beyond which you're adding something like 10 miles-per-hour - so the realistic range if you can't charge overnight is around 200 miles. It has to be given back 75% charge or more. Before agreeing to the car, I checked my hotel had ev charging which it did. On arrival, it only had tesla chargers, and my car had neither a lead to charge off the mains nor a tesla adapter. There are chargers at work, but not enough for the number of people who use them. I got on them (and a bunch of shopping centre chargers) a few times, only to find the majority of chargers (maybe all the AC ones?) are slow chargers - they'll give you maybe 10-20 miiles in an hour. Good enough to stay topped up if you're doing a few miles a day, not much use when you're doing more miles.
Avis had told me to get EVGo to charge up, but that can't be installed if your phone is british. So I used chargepoint, which was alright, and had to find fast chargers which were fairly spaced even in a big metropolitan area. I ended up having to hang round in carparks waiting for the thing to charge for a half hour, then head on. I think these charges were fairly pricey ($20 for a 50% top up?) but I wasn't paying too much attention as I'm not personally paying. Chargepoint makes you hold credit in the app which is annoying, in the end I found electrify america had more chargers that were mostly 350kw and allowed you to just pay using a card reader at the site which is far more convinient, but I found it hard to locate these chargers/see if they're working - google maps knew where they were but had no data, maybe a different app would have worked? but it was pretty poorly integrated into overall nav.
On the last day I day-tripped to tuscon to ride the lemmon drop, which is about 240 mile round trip, so I had to fast charge to get it full the evening before, then fast charge in tuscon, then fast charge near the airport to get it back full enough, spending around 2 hours in carparks when I had better things to do.
So, long story short, I think the car was good, and if they were cheap enough I'd easily consider one (or its competitors) for a daily driver in the uk, however I would avoid renting a (non-tesla) EV whilst travelling if the situation arose again - the charging infra if you don't have charging at home is just way too much of a ballache compared to being able to pull into a petrol station and fill up. This is obviously different if you live somewhere you can charge, or you're familiar with the apps/charger locations/etc, but for now, I think the infra has some way to go.
American real-world testing, julians. InsideEVs
This test? showing 188.4 miles at 70mph?
https://insideevs.com/reviews/445646/audi-etron-highway-range-test/
That test was on a pre 2021 model which was before audi updated the software in the 2021 and on models (like what STR is looking at) to give it additional usable battery capacity. So using inside ev miles per kwh numbers of 2.3 from that test , would give the updated car a touch under 200 miles range at 70mph
I think the update to release more usable capacity can be retro applied to earlier cars too, but I'm not certain about that
You can tell the weather is warming up, I've been seeing 2.3 to 2.4 miles per kwh on regular drive over the past few weeks, today saw 4miles per kwh.
Not bad for an inefficient merc eqc.
Why are the newer tech EVs all such poor efficiencies. I am horrified if my Ioniq goes less than 4 even on a cold day. I appreciate many are now bigger but would have thought that improvements in technology cancel out some of the increased size?
Has the desire for efficiency now gone with faster charging available?
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Why are the newer tech EVs all such poor efficiencies. I am horrified if my Ioniq goes less than 4 even on a cold day. I appreciate many are now bigger but would have thought that improvements in technology cancel out some of the increased size?
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I dont think it especially surprising that a large , heavy, 4wd, fast suv is less efficient than a smaller, lighter, slower, 2wd saloon/hatchback.
But in the case of the EQC, its a car that was developed a few years ago, so not the latest BEV technology, I think the newer cohort of SUV's are more efficient, but physics dictates that they will never be as efficient as something smaller and lighter with less driven wheels.
I'm not too concerned with efficiency (with home charging elec prices as they are) as long as the range is sufficient for the odd long trip we do.
yes, makes sense with the big boxes, is more a philosophical question around the way manufacturers are going with the tech. I would have expected to see gains in efficiency, but it seems that gains are more around charging speed and battery capacity.
Longer range = bigger battery = more weight = less efficiency.
It’s an easy fix for manufacturers to increase range by increasing the size of the battery rather than redesigning the car.
Indeed i get the calculations on efficiency.
Are customers not demanding better efficiency? This has been one of the great selling points of ICE cars in the past, but seems to get hidden behind the more simple range numbers.
Initial vehicles were all about the aero due to battery limitations, but this is all forgotten as every car that comes out looks like it has been designed using Lego!
Hopefully efficiency will come back into the mix soon when people realise just how much it costs having to fill up at 79p/kwh on the motorways.
Main issue I see is that manufacturers are all pandering to the ridiculous notion everyone seems to have at the moment that they really need an SUV.
I’m not too concerned with efficiency (with home charging elec prices as they are) as long as the range is sufficient for the odd long trip we do.
Ditto..
However, the NEWER polestar (MY24) has better motor and battery tech in it, and mine is only 3 years old..
Things like actually disengaging the whole front motor when just cruising means it's basically a true 2wd, until it's not. And the motors are more efficient too. So it's heading that direction i guess.
DrP
Are customers not demanding better efficiency?
Because they don't know what constitutes good or bad efficiency, and most people love SUV shapes so that's what they buy. However, in theory they should be able to get more range from a cheaper car if it's efficient.
I think the issue is that the WTLP cycle is still heavily biased towards town driving - but this is really not a good metric for EV drivers. If you charge at home you aren't ever going to drive 280 miles in local town driving, so it's an irrelevant number. We drive long distances on motorways, and that's the crucial bit. We should have a motorway range number. The thing is, at higher speeds bigger and heavier cars do much worse than their WTLP, but buyers either won't know that until they've already bought it, or they are just handwaving it away.
My car is small, light and effiicent, and it has a small battery so cheap - but it can still do 170 miles at motorway speeds. But the headline range at 190 miles is low. I averaged 5.2 m/kWh going to North Wales and back in the last one on about 75% A roads, that's better than the WTLP figure. Everyone's used to saying 'oh well, they never get the official figures' so they can justify it, but no - you CAN get the WTLP in a properly designed car. If that thing had 150k charging it'd be unbeatable.
Things like actually disengaging the whole front motor when just cruising means it’s basically a true 2wd, until it’s not.
It'll still have driveshafts and a front diff to turn even if it de-clutches the motor.
Why are the newer tech EVs all such poor efficiencies.
Some aren't. Tesla Model 3 and Y are still leaders when it comes to efficiency and the new Model 3 is more efficient than the older one. However I agree that some OEMs are going backwards in efficiency like Hyundai and Kia.
Tesla Model 3 and Y are still leaders
They aren't the most efficient cars.
We’ve had a Merc EQA350 4matic since December and it’s shocking on the juice.. hovering around 2-2.2 m/kwh mark. We had a model 3 and an ID3 prior to this and the difference is staggering. It’s not a dealbreaker for us though as we have an ICE estate car for longer journeys/holidays/etc. and we only got the Merc as they were on a great deal thru sal sacrifice. I also cant believe these SUV EVs don’t seem to have a ‘frunk’ like you get on a Tesla, proper lazy design.. if Tesla can manage to fit one in the front of a wedge shaped model 3 then I see no reason why other manufacturers can’t with these big cars. The amount of hardware under the bonnet of the Merc is ridiculous.. I have no idea what most of it is!
The EQA is currently the smallest EV Merc make until the A class hatch comes out (think it’s next year) and whilst it’s not massive (footprint not much more than the ID) it looks big because of the shape. Makes me laugh as the local scratch and shine charge £2 more for the EQA than my 5 tourer despite the BMW being a MUCH bigger car 🤣.
molgripsThey aren’t the most efficient cars.
Compared to ..?