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I see no reason why other manufacturers can’t with these big cars.
I think they were designed as ICEs first. That seems to be the key factor. My Hyundai has masses of space under the bonnet, but stuff is all spaced out - the inverter/motor block seems to be mounted to the same points that the engine would be i.e. in the middle up high, which gets in the way of the frunk space. Also, the bonnet is opened the traditional way and it might be difficult to redesign.
Compared to ..?
I think the Ioniqs 5 and 6 are probably comparable, but I reckon my Ioniq Electric is significantly more efficient but of course they don't make them any more.
Just seen this very, very good deal on a Leaf (sorry Molgrips).
https://centralukvehicleleasing.co.uk/car-leasing/nissan/leaf/100105/110kw-n-connecta-39kwh-5dr-auto
Bloody hell. If you commute more than about 30 miles a day that's essentially free.
Everyone’s used to saying ‘oh well, they never get the official figures’
I'm not finding it too hard to beat the wltp figures in the merc now the weather is starting to warm up a bit.
I’m not finding it too hard to beat the wltp figures in the merc in this warmer weather.
Oh, interesting. On what sort of driving?
Last time I read a group test, the discrepancy between WTLP and tested varied loads - the Porsche Taycan actually exceeded it IIRC on the same test that some came in at 75%
https://www.carwow.co.uk/electric-cars/efficient#gref
Seems to suggest that. Standard model 3 would be approaching the top of efficiency tables in class.
Oh, interesting. On what sort of driving?
Free flowing town and country stuff in 20/30/40mph speed limited roads mostly, but only when the outside temp is >15c
If there's much high speed (60mph+) distance then obviously the efficiency drops.
I'm pleasantly surprised by how efficient the merc can actually be when conditions are right, and equally surprised about how inefficient it can be when conditions are wrong, there's such a massive disparity. I'd love to know whats driving the inefficiency, I reckon it must be related to the heating system because the efficient/inefficient occasions correlate with when it's warm or cold out.
Bloody hell. If you commute more than about 30 miles a day that’s essentially free.
it isn't. it's £260/month, which is about £12.50 per working day (250 per year). That buys you pretty much 2 gallons of fuel per working day, and if your current car only does 15mpg (minus whatever the electricity costs), you're unlikely to be in the market for a small, slow ev.
Not sure there’s much out there more efficient than the Model 3, and the new one is even better.
The Model 3 coupled with Tesla infrastructure is pretty unbeatable IMO for long distance driving. I drove my M3P nearly 500 miles from Newcastle to St Ives and only had to stop twice for 20 mins a piece, there was a third stop but that was for me not the car!
I think the Ioniqs 5 and 6 are probably comparable,
In his 1000km challenge Bjorn Nyland found the Ioniq 5 to be less efficient than all the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y variants and the Ioniq 6 to be less efficient than the Model 3 and comparable to the Model Y
Do you have the numbers? I don't want to watch a whole video to get them...
Just search for Ioniq 5 and 6 1000km challenges on his channel and jump to nearly the end of the vids where he shows his spreadsheet.
Decided against the Audi. Got a test drive in a Polestar Performance on Saturday with a view to a new purchase available in March
This page https://www.zerofy.net/ev-database.html says it's based on his numbers and has the I6 at almost the same as the Model 3 but slightly better, in winter. At the end of his I6 video the efficiencies are quite close but the temperatures are different. But anyway that's what I meant by comparable.
That's more like it, STR. Long range single motor is WLTP 655km or roughly double that e-Tron you were looking at.
I was surprised how inefficient the Ioniq 5 is in real life. 4.2 kW/m average in summer for a commute which is 30 miles: half m/way and half country roads, and that’s eco mode, gentle driving. Down to 3.1 kW/m in winter. It once struggled above 2.3 on a long m/way journey, though it was well below -5degC for most of that journey. It’s all good though coming from a 280bhp 4wd diesel 😂
Bjorn publishes his results - they're in the "TB Test Results" sheet on this google drive link
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HOwktdiZmm40atGPwymzrxErMi1ZrKPP
Down to 3.1 kW/m in winter
That surprises me. Then again - today on a 3C morning I whacked the heat up in the Leaf to 21C and the energy consumption for the HVAC was 3kW for the first half of the short trip, because the cabin was cold and I hadn't pre-heated it. On top of that, it was slow traffic - so the kWh consumed was high but the miles travelled was low.
That kind of thing would make it look really bad, whereas a traffic-free motorway trip would make it look much better even in the same temps.
Normally I have the heating on 17C. In the Leaf, that is pretty warm if you don't have the AC on as well; as soon as you put the AC on and the air dries out, you need more heat to feel comfortable. But whilst the Leaf steams up like a bastard when you do this, the Hyundai does not.
Yeah, the, the 2.2kW/m trip was a 200mile family trip, 95% on motorway at 75mphish. Plus as it was Baltic the temp dial obviously needs wacking up to 24deg (wife logic) plus all 4 seats had electric heating on the whole way (including the youngest still with a child seat getting no benefit 😂)
Already much improved economy the last couple of days with the warmer weather.
"motorway at 75mphish"
Yep, that'll do it. As drag goes up with the square of speed the difference between 65,70,75 is quite significant.
The problem is that peak efficiency in most EVs is far slower than you'd every want to drive on a motorway, so it becomes a game of "how slow are you willing to go". My approach varies depending on the journey. If I'm eeking it out to avoid a service station charging stop then I'm happy at 60. If I can get back home with no worries then it's just avoiding speeding tickets that is the limit.
At the end of his I6 video the efficiencies are quite close but the temperatures are different. But anyway that’s what I meant by comparable.
Yeah just ignore the Ioniq 5 you mentioned in your original post why don't you.
temp dial obviously needs wacking up to 24deg
Are you road-tripping or baking?
Less baking...more "proving bread" with those temps!
STR.... The 2024 performance model? Nice..!
It won't get the miles that the new lrsm (rear wheel drive) will get..but should be at the Audi...
DrP
I discovered that my insurance is going to be upwards of £1,200 outside the company car scheme so EVs are back on the table.
Dropped into a Skoda dealer for a test drive in an Enyaq yesterday. Car seems well built and comfortable but OH MY GOD the software for everything was terrible. The biggest complaint against Tesla is that stuff is buried in menus, but it's nothing compared to the VAG implementation. And this was apparently the newest version.
I drove randomly away from the dealership for 15 minutes, then asked the sales drone sat in the passenger seat to stick the post code in so we could see how good the sat nav was. After 5 minutes he'd finally figured out where to put it, and he was still trying to turn on the voice guidance when we got back.
Also - didn't go above 60mph and it only managed 1.7 miles per kWh, giving a real world range of just 150 miles. This is a £50,000 car... My Model 3, despite being a panicky quivering mess on motorways thanks to Autopilot, did 4.1 miles/kWh on the journey there.
Trying the ID7 on Friday, and have a Mach-E for the weekend. If the software on the ID7 is from the same team that did the Enyaq, it's going to be a hard "no". Polestar is unfortunately out, as for some reason they are astronomically expensive on the company scheme.
Much that I hate His Muskiness, Tesla seems to have the powertrain and battery sorted.
STR…. The 2024 performance model? Nice..!
Yes, with Pilot and Plus Packs. 469bhp, 4s to 60, Brembo brakes, Ohlins shocks, 352 mile range
didn’t go above 60mph and it only managed 1.7 miles per kWh
Something is clearly up there - did you spend a lot of time waiting in traffic? It's certainly not what people are reporting on the internet.
Are you road-tripping or baking?
not by me! My side stays at 18degC all year. The OH and kids seem to think that colder weather means the heater dial needs turning up… I’ve tried, lord I’ve tried… Though… it is quite nice to pre-heat to 22nin the morning and then drop down to 18 when I get in.
Much that I hate His Muskiness, Tesla seems to have the powertrain and battery sorted.
Thing to remember is Tesla has over 140,000 employees and Elon Musk is just one of them. Clearly you think he is the devil incarnate if you are prepared to consider cars from an OEM that has actually killed people due to cheating emissions regs.
So wait, all VW is culpable for the emissions scandal but Musk is the only **** in Tesla?
So wait, all VW is culpable for the emissions scandal but Musk is the only **** in Tesla?
Musk, not any other Tesla board member or employee, was mentioned by name as the reason the poster was reluctant to consider another Tesla. I'm sure the % of a$$holes in Tesla reflects the % of them in the population. I simply questioned why he has a problem with Musk when he is happy to consider a car from a company that has cheated emissions regs, the increased emissions from those vehicles statistically having killed thousands of people. And yes VW as a company were held responsible and fined billions with multiple executives receiving prison sentences which to me points to institutionalised corruption. Lets also remember that VW have been fined multimillions twice by the EU for forming a cartel with BMW and Daimler to fix the price of steel and to delay the deployment of emssions reducing technologies. Personally speaking VAG will never receive another penny from me.
Trying the ID7 on Friday, and have a Mach-E for the weekend. If the software on the ID7 is from the same team that did the Enyaq, it’s going to be a hard “no”. Polestar is unfortunately out, as for some reason they are astronomically expensive on the company scheme
do you have an option to try BMW ? I looked at most of the ones you mention and ended up with an i4 40.
Winter range was 280ish, it's now back to about 320 and was doing more like 340 back in August when I got it
Polestar is unfortunately out, as for some reason they are astronomically expensive on the company scheme
Their shaky finances made them crazy expensive to lease co. my company deal with. The same goes for Fisker.
I simply questioned why he has a problem with Musk when he is happy to consider a car from a company that has cheated emissions regs, the increased emissions from those vehicles statistically having killed thousands of people.
VW is just business innit, whereas Musk is a ****.
@Flaperon
I've had both Tesla model 3 (2019-2022) and VW ID3 (2022- yesterday) Plus points of the ID3 were nothing much, except the matrix headlights, absolutely amazeballs. Plus point of the model 3, absolutely everything, except the headlights. I've just been out and bought another model 3 even though it's a bit impractical for someone who's an outdoors type. I definitely wouldn't want another VW ID until someone guaranteed me that the infotainment system was working properly.
I simply questioned why he has a problem with Musk when he is happy to consider a car from a company that has cheated emissions regs
Because Musk is still a massive dick with a very public profile and he is still lying through his teeth about his cars. VW is going to be squeaky clean from now on.
If Tesla were the only EV that was any good, I'd get one. But they aren't, so I won't.
To save having to dredge through 146 pages …..
Does anyone have any real world experience of the ID buzz. Taking one for a test drive on the weekend , but probably not long enough to gauge real world mileage etc.
Would be using for work as well as family purposes , so will need to load the boot up with a couple of hundred kilos of gear at times
VW is just business innit,
Ah I see. So that makes all the illegal activity OK then.
Does anyone know of a site you can search cars by p11d value, going to look at electric option. Thanks
no experience but interested to hear how you get on. 3 kids and a dog severely limit EV choices and the Buzz worked out surprisingly cheap on my company car scheme, but when i looked a bit closer, the back seats looked really uncomfortable and didn't have the flexibility of the newer long wheelbase version that's on its way. not been inside one though. all based on pictures/videos
If you were looking for a secondhand EV on a PCP deal, probably in September, then what would you guys suggest?
Long range would be nice but not absolutely essential (I'm kind of in the process of giving up my career as a musician, there's still the possibility of 250 mile round trips for gigs from time to time)
I'm not into cars at all so don't care how fast it is. Something of a reasonable size I guess. I've been looking at Tesla 3's. Can get a 3 year old one for about £300 per month, which would be the upper limit of what I'd want to pay. Obviously they have a decent range, there market has moved on such much since we last looked a few years ago that I'm unsure of what other offerings there are now. Kia eNiro maybe?
there’s still the possibility of 250 mile round trips for gigs from time to time
Bear in mind that you don't need a 250 mile range car for a 250 mile trip. Recharging on the way is nowhere near as problematic as some people like to make out.
Model 3s are in the 'expensive car' tier. I just bought a Hyundai Ioniq Electric for £11k which is great - it does recharge slowly though but you have to ask if 45 minutes saved once in a while is worth ten grand extra.
I'm not sure about PCP though. They offered me a PCP deal at the dealer which was around £300/mo with a sizeable balloon payment, but I borrowed the money from Tesco bank at a far lower interest rate - I'm paying £212/mo and I'll own the car at the end of it. I think finance companies are assuming the market will plummet, but that doesn't bother me as I'll keep it for at least 5 years.
Electric car mayhem 😉
Is the long range essential or just for the occasional gig? I like the Niro and looked at the EV and also contemplated the plug in hybrid as for a lot of my daily driving it had just enough electric range and for my longer trips it had the petrol. But I got a cracking deal on a full EV so took the plunge (a Cupra Born, not everyone’s cup of tea). Not a huge fan of Teslas myself. But that’s just me, they do have good range/charging/networks. Will you be charging at home? When looking my EV short list, for various reasons, was Hyundai kona, Kia Niro, Cupra Born and Renault Megane.