I also know the consumer can benefit which is why I said:
"Obvs you do benefit from some extra cheap charging but it's only when it suits octopus'
....which was incorrect.
You get a 20% increase in lower rate standard hours (from 5 to 6) regardless of 'when it suits octopus' and you get it at a 17% price reduction. Yes, they may charge your car in extra hours 'when it suits them' in addition to that. But that doesn't get around the fact that you get 6 not 5 hours at 7p not 8.5p.
You get a 20% increase in lower rate standard hours (from 5 to 6) regardless of 'when it suits octopus' and you get it at a 17% price reduction.
Yes.... I know, which was why I originally said:
surplus outside the normal cheap rate window.
😐
Maybe read the post?
Anyway thanks for confirming what I said - what I didn't know though was that the extra charging slots were at a 17% discount [off SVR?] - for some reason I thought it was at the overnight rate. Thanks for clearing that bit up.
So if you need more time to charge than the 6hr window you will get it, and those slots will be at 7p. I saw exactly this when I first used IOG with a 3 pin so sometimes it was basically taking every minute between plugging in and my "ready time".
Wow! Seems like if you don't do that many miles a day [and you have a compatible car] then a charger isn't 100% required.
Fairly sure that's not what convert said. It's a 17% reduction (8.5 Vs 7p) in the fixed overnight window that is 20% longer.
From my understanding as long as you allow octopus to control the times any time the car charges the whole house gets the 7p rate, even in the middle of the day segment .If you bump charge or charge something not smart then you pay whatever the current rate is (so day if day etc).
Maybe read the post?
Fairly sure that's not what convert said
Yes, there is some irony of man suggesting I read posts, still struggling with basic comprehension 😁
Am I right in saying that on days when it's not sunny or particularly windy then there are no extra charging slots outside the normal overnight window?
In theory there might be fewer slots, but it seems to me that there are plenty of slots to spare currently (haha). It always seems to be able to charge how I want (on cheap rate) unless I take the piss and demand a full charge in a few hours. I have plugged in in the morning and set a departure time for the afternoon before, and it still gave me charging slots and cheap rate (although I don't recall how windy it is). In fact, there was a long running thread on their forums where people were exploiting this as a loophole by plugging the car in during the day specifically to save money when they wanted to do baking or welding or whatever. Octopus can't stop you doing this directly but there is a fair usage clause in the contract IIRC which means they can ban you for taking the piss.
Seems like if you don't do that many miles a day [and you have a compatible car] then a charger isn't 100% required.
Absolutely, and it's a great way to save a grand. The issue might be if you do do a long trip one day and can't fully recharge overnight for another the following day. But that's niche - and if you're like me and have a handy rapid charger down the road you might be better off spending a few quid on a rapid top-up rather than splashing out on a charger.
Then again, if you have a compatible car you only need a dumb charger or even just a commando socket, and these are cheap.
On IOG the deal is that your car is charged to the level you set by the time you set. So if you need more time to charge than the 6hr window you will get it, and those slots will be at 7p.
Is that right?
In my case Octopus doesn't know the state of charge of the car (it just talks to the charger) so I have to tell it how much I want to add when I plug it in.
So, if the above is right, I could just set that to 100%. In which case, Octopus would think it needed to deliver ~80kwh when I plugged it in.
So, let's say I plug it in at 6pm. Octopus would then have to give my whole house 7p/kwh for the whole evening (peak time) to have any chance of delivering the requested amount by 7am (the time I have set in the app).
Of course, most nights the car will terminate the charging long before 7am, but it seems strange that this is possible.
Yes, there is some irony of man suggesting I read posts, still struggling with basic comprehension
I'm sorry if a learning disability is creating a problem, but I was referring to my original post where I mentioned that IOG gave you a cheap overnight rate window and extra cheap rate slots but these were at the discretion and timing of Octopus - you seem to have agreed with those.
You then went on to state
You get a 20% increase in lower rate standard hours (from 5 to 6) regardless of 'when it suits octopus' and you get it at a 17% price reduction.
But you don't say what the reduction is from... is it the overnight Octopus rate (which I've not mentioned at all)?
Anyway thanks for the info - I'm sure it's probably a lot simpler than it can seem at face value!
My attempt at trying to work out how to get IOG to deliver the amount of charge I want took a bit of a backward step last night.
On Monday I asked for 15% (12 kwh) and it delivered 11% (11.54 kwh)
On Tuesday I asked for 28% (22.4 kwh) and it delivered 23% (21.25 kwh)
On Wednesday I asked for 20% (16 kwh) and it delivered 27% (26.27 kwh)
The number in brackets on the left is roughly what I think I asked for each night (assuming an ~80 kwh battery). The number in brackets on the right is what the Octopus app tells me was delivered. The percentage on the left is what I enter into the Octopus app (which requires a percentage to add and a time for it to be ready - 7am). The percentage on the right is the increase in the battery percentage reported by the car.
If anybody can make sense of those numbers do let me know 😀
The charging isn't 100% efficient, so the car will always report less charge than the charger fed it, and on that basis Monday and Tuesday look reasonable. I don't know why it gave you more than you asked it for on Wednesday.
But you don't say what the reduction is from... is it the overnight Octopus rate (which I've not mentioned at all)?
The reduction is to the 'EV':rate - whenever that applies - so all 6 hours from 2330 to 0530 and also to any periods in the other 18 hours they decide to charge your car. 1.5p a unit isn't a lot but a bit of back of fag packet maths says that for my EV charging for the 10k miles I drive from home charging a year plus the overnight use of the rest of the house that works out at a £50 saving. So not life changing in the big scheme of things....
@roverpig - we experienced the same overcharging issue when doing smart charging via our Ohme charger and the Ohme app. I mentioned this above in a different context, but was a bit misleading I think (see below). I think the issue is a poor connection between our charger and the internet, which happens via some mobile network or other, to Ohme's servers and our account thereon, which is controlled via the Ohme app. Well I think that is how it works.
If the connection to the charger breaks, the command to move into the next programmed phase of charging isn't implemented and it seems to just carry on. What I didn't clarify above was that this has been a problem even since we lost car connectivity and disengaged the car from the Ohme app. Ohme still knows what the car is, and so how much charge amounts to 10% etc, but doesn't know the state of the car's charge. It ought to be simple enough for it to add 30% or whatever, but about one charge in four it misses the target by a mile, and always over does it a bit. So we have given up smart charging and tell Ohme to do "max charge", then control the charging time via the car. This is more precise, though requiring a bit of mental arithmetic.
I imagine doing this via Octopus would involve an even more tenuous chain of communication - do you give Octopus the login details for your car charger account so it can turn it on and off (we decided not to use IOG because it didn't really fit our car/solar/battery usage pattern)?
The charging isn't 100% efficient, so the car will always report less charge than the charger fed it, and on that basis Monday and Tuesday look reasonable. I don't know why it gave you more than you asked it for on Wednesday.
Yes, the amounts that Octopus says it delivered aren't that far off what I asked for on Monday and Tuesday. Even closer if it uses the 78 kwh useable capacity of the battery for its calculations. The way the car is translating that delivered charge into a percentage change for the battery seems to be a bit variable. If we assume that 78 kwh capacity:
Monday, charger delivered 11.54 kwh = 14.8% but car reported an 11% change in percentage = 8.58 kwh. So car received 74% of the charge that was delivered.
Tuesday, charger delivered 21.25 kwh = 27.2% but car reported 23% change in percentage = 17.94 kwh. So car received 84% of the charge delivered.
So, maybe, charging losses aren't constant and depend on state of charge or temperature or something.
Wednesday is still a mystery though.
we experienced the same overcharging issue when doing smart charging via our Ohme charger and the Ohme app
That's really interesting. Thanks. My charger connects by WiFi and I'm pretty sure it didn't lose connection to the house WiFi as I have to reboot the charger whenever that happens. I don't know how the communication between Octopus and the (Indra) charger works though. Does it talk directly to the charger or does it talk to Indra's servers which then talk to the charger? I don't know, but either way I guess there could have been a glitch in the communication somewhere.
This has made me realise that I don't really know how my charger (or the connection to Octopus) works. I never explicitly set up an account with Indra or shared those details with Octopus, but so much account sharing happens just by granting permissions in apps these days.
The installer set up the communication between the Indra charger and my house WiFi. I have no idea how I would go about changing that if I ever changed the house WiFi, which is a bot of a worry. I just downloaded the Indra app, scanned a QR code on the charger and it worked. Similarly, with Octopus I just plugged the car into the charger, told Octopus it was ready and it "magically" added the charger as a device in the Octopus app.
Yes, the amounts that Octopus says it delivered aren't that far off what I asked for on Monday and Tuesday. Even closer if it uses the 78 kwh useable capacity of the battery for its calculations. The way the car is translating that delivered charge into a percentage change for the battery seems to be a bit variable. If we assume that 78 kwh capacity:
Monday, charger delivered 11.54 kwh = 14.8% but car reported an 11% change in percentage = 8.58 kwh. So car received 74% of the charge that was delivered.
Tuesday, charger delivered 21.25 kwh = 27.2% but car reported 23% change in percentage = 17.94 kwh. So car received 84% of the charge delivered.
So, maybe, charging losses aren't constant and depend on state of charge or temperature or something.
Wednesday is still a mystery though.
I'd be checking that assumption. If the effective capacity is lower then the car reported percentages will be higher values as kwh ie nearer what the charger reported it delivered.
Not particularly impressed with my Octopus experience so far
Ordered the Hypervolt charger from them last week as my car is coming mid December.
During the order process it asked for days where installation would be a problem and I gave them a few dates where I definitely wasn't available. I expected they'd come back with a definite date but instead I have to click on a link to speculatively see if there are any dates available and if there aren't I need to try again the next day.
I've tried 3 days in a row and no appointments are available. It would be easier to get a GP appointment!
I went with octopus as I'm already with them for gas and electricity and thought it would be relatively seamless and hassle free. Now I'm having to gamble on a slot opening up at some undetermined point and I'm no doubt competing against every other customer nearby that's trying to do the same.
If I knew it would be a hassle I'd just have reached out to someone local directly.
If I knew it would be a hassle I'd just have reached out to someone local directly.
Not necessarily as easy as you'd think. Depends where you obviously. But a lot of local electricians who you'd think would want the work seem to have remained doubtful and not got the tickets. I got a quote from a local place that specialises in solar, batteries and EV chargers. £600 more than octopus like for like. We've had two done (on neighbouring reasons - boring explanation I won't go into) and one was by Octopus and the other by ChargedEV. Octopus was by far the smoothest of the two experiences. EVcharged took the job and then had a bear mutiny from installers trying to get someone to come to the Highlands to for a few days to fit the dozen or so orders they had taken.
I had grants for both chargers so had to go from government approved lists of installers. Apart from the place mentioned above, without exception every single other one of the local providers failed to get back to messages, voicemail and emails. It was like pulling teeth trying to get someone to take my money.
If it’s any consolation I got mine installed through OVO who basically contract it out to ChargedEV. Took over 6 months from initial enquiry to getting it installed. Had a date fixed and then they cancelled at the last minute as the installer had apparently quit with no notice (guess they are in demand). Turned out to be a blessing in disguise as OVO then dropped support for the (Ohme) charger they were going to install with pretty much no notice. So at least I got a chance to switch to one they did install. So, yes, it’s a nightmare 😀
By the way I’ve pretty much given up trying to understand how Octopus decide how much charge to put in my car. Sometimes it gives a bit less than I ask for, sometimes a bit more and sometimes a lot more. The only reliable approach seems to be to set the limit in the car, ask octopus for a bit more than you need and let the car stop the charge when it reaches the level you want. Obviously that makes it a bit harder for octopus to plan as they always think you want a bit more than you do but it seems to be the only way if they can’t talk to the car directly.
Still not got my Octopus install arranged. Utterly useless process. I need to keep refreshing this link they've sent me in the vain hope that some appointment becomes available at some undetermined point in the future. My car is coming next week.
Question for those that got a local electrician to install, do you have a ball park install cost figure? Mine will be an easy installation. Consumer unit is in the hall cupboard, cable from there, out through wall into internal garage, along internal garage wall and out through the front of the house. Cable run of about 8 meters. New build house with up to date consumer unit, smart meter etc. Neighbours installs have all be fine (supplied via the dealer they got their cars from, which I could've/ should've done, but the cost to do that was £500 more than Octopus...)
I got a charger installed by a local EV charger outfit last year. Totally professional, and as it was their business customer service was excellent. I had given up on Octopus even responding to email. Mine was fitted within a week, and Octopus got back to me 2 weeks after that.
Cost for the charger and install was just shy of a grand, and as I run the business from home I was able to get aa 300£ grant to cover some of the cost (might not apply, but worth asking ) You might have to pay a bit more for the longer cable run.
Suspect that Octopus is so popular their customer service can't keep up with demand
Still not got my Octopus install arranged. Utterly useless process. I need to keep refreshing this link they've sent me in the vain hope that some appointment becomes available at some undetermined point in the future. My car is coming next week.
Question for those that got a local electrician to install, do you have a ball park install cost figure? Mine will be an easy installation. Consumer unit is in the hall cupboard, cable from there, out through wall into internal garage, along internal garage wall and out through the front of the house. Cable run of about 8 meters. New build house with up to date consumer unit, smart meter etc. Neighbours installs have all be fine (supplied via the dealer they got their cars from, which I could've/ should've done, but the cost to do that was £500 more than Octopus...)
Sounds like 1/2 days work plus materials. Shouldn't be more than about £250 for the labour element I would have thought.
The only quirk with our original install was the need for an earthing spike in the garden.
I'm looking to swap my 5 year old rolec charger for a new Ohme unit, and my local sparkie has said he can do it no problem.
Anyone using a Zappi charger and Agile Octopus? I set the schedule to coincide with the cheapest 1/2 hour slots under Eco+ and it starts on time but then carries on charging after the schedule is supposed to finish. Really annoying as the prices really ramp up about 7am. I've raised a ticket with myenergi but maybe someone on here has an answer.
Anyone using a Zappi charger and Agile Octopus?
Zappi and Octopus Intelligent Go (or what ever). I think you have to work out where on the Octopus app and attach your car as a device, and then the app works out timing for the charge rather than the Zappi. You might need to allow permission for OIG to talk to your car.
Thanks but I’m on agile not OIG. Hoping to get Home Assistant to do this rather than the app but haven’t had time to set that up yet so using the myenergi app in the meantime.
Apologies if this has been covered already, but is anyone here on Ovo?
We have our car and new to the whole charge from home thing. At the moment I have a 13A 3 pin plug charger (granny charger?) which is 10A 2.4kW
This actually seems to be okay for us as we don't use the car a huge amount so when it needs charged I plug it in overnight and the next day it's good to go. From what I can figure it seems to cost about 7 quid to charge it up (52KW battery)
I'm awaiting a quote from Ovo to install a home charger but I now wonder if it's worth it? Seems likely to cost around £1200 to install. If it's currently around 7 quid maybe twice a week then I don't know if it's worth bothering with.
I'll give them a call as I also wonder if there is a specific rate I can switch to for EV charging that may save me a few pence per kWh when overnight charging.
Sorry if I'm being rather daft, I really haven't looked into it at all yet... But any advice very much appreciated!
Cheers!
The only quirk with our original install was the need for an earthing spike in the garden.
IIRC the 'need' for that has been debunked now. Ours is old enough to also have this. Don't know what happens when you have a replacement charger. Does it get left as is?
Not read all the thread but am interested in how much range people lose at this of year over say September? I have a Kia Niro EV which was doing around 250 miles per charge and that has recently dropped below 200. My daughter is at a uni 250 miles away and when we dropped her off in September we stopped at around 150 miles, charged to 80% - about 40 minutes - at a motorway services and were able to just do a short charge at our destination before returning with one charge to 80% on the way back.
Did the same journey last week and had to charge for an hour on the way there, charge for an hour on arrival and then for over an hour on the way back. The charging really ate into the time I had for my visit as there were no chargers where I was staying or where we went out whilst there.
The charging infrastructure around Durham where she is studying is really patchy and I had to reluctantly use a Tesla charger as the other three locations I had tried previously were either out of order or only charging at 7kW.
I got the car as I rarely drive long distances and my workplace offers free charging. It is great for pootling about but long journeys are painful. I have various apps and guess I need to plan better but it feels like a tremendous faff compared to driving an ICE car.
There's quite a few fast (50kW+) chargers around Durham listed
. I have various apps and guess I need to plan better but it feels like a tremendous faff compared to driving an ICE car.
I had my first experience of charging away from home with mixed results this past weekend. Got from Chester to Newcastle on one full charge and the hotel we stayed in had 6 chargers so I was able to charge to 80% overnight at 50p/ kwh. Coming home yesterday the predicted range was dropping so stopped at Tebay for a quick splash and dash at 69p/kwh. All chargers were full apart from one which turned out to be faulty which wasn't much fun standing in the pissing rain, in November, at Tebay! If anywhere in the UK needs covers over the chargers those do. Carried onto Moto at Lancaster and had my pants pulled down by a Gridserve charger at 89p/kwh but I needed 2 attempts to get that working. So yes, a bit more of a faff than doing the whole thing on a full tank of diesel, but the benefits outweigh the odd bit of faffage.
Question for those that got a local electrician to install, do you have a ball park install cost figure?
I paid about 20% more than Octopus quoted, but was not really a local electrician, more a specialist company. Octopus were saying something like 3 months lead time, they did it in less than a week.
The company I use were brill, I had much more faith in them just going by the questions they asked before they even turned up. They came back free of charge to alter the load balancing setup after I had the main supply fuse upgraded. Just looked them up and they seem to be no longer trading unfortunately.
Question for those that got a local electrician to install, do you have a ball park install cost figure?
I was just under £2K for a Hypervolt charger (£600) a new upgraded consumer unit and some remedial works to solar wiring that was discovered when replacing the CU. I seem to recall Hypervolt only was just under £1k but that was me wanting the ev cable routed underfloor rather than clipped externally to house
I've just moved from EON to Octopus Intelligent Go. Lost an hr on cheap rate at night but today's intelligent schedule is more than the hr lost. Been an easy transition so far
Random...home charging related one others probably knew already...
Last night it was raining as it went dark and woke to stary skies and -7 deg. Car was like a perfectly glazed cube. The remote climate conditioning did a pretty amazing job of defrosting it though so when I got in it at 0650 it was ready to roll. Note to self - remember to defrost your headlights and rear lights too.
The relevant bit....the car was plugged in last night and when the car went into climate conditioning mode it reconnected to the mains to do the job. Looking at my Octopus app, it was on for just under 30mins at 3kw to get up to temperature. But as it was after the end of cheap tariff that was 1.5kwh of energy at full price. Two ways of look at that - on the upside the car range was not impacted and if that matters to what you were doing that day that's a good thing. On the downside, that defrost just cost me more money than the 25mile drive to work done of cheap overnight IOG juice! And in this use case I really don't care about the maximum range and would rather have used power from the battery.
I suspect it is in the car (Kia) options somewhere rather than the charger or the IOG settings to not use tethered power to do a climate condition. Will have to check it out properly later. But thought it's the time of year others might be caught out too....
Not read all the thread but am interested in how much range people lose at this of year over say September? I have a Kia Niro EV which was doing around 250 miles per charge and that has recently dropped below 200. My daughter is at a uni 250 miles away and when we dropped her off in September we stopped at around 150 miles, charged to 80% - about 40 minutes - at a motorway services and were able to just do a short charge at our destination before returning with one charge to 80% on the way back.
Did the same journey last week and had to charge for an hour on the way there, charge for an hour on arrival and then for over an hour on the way back. The charging really ate into the time I had for my visit as there were no chargers where I was staying or where we went out whilst there.
The charging infrastructure around Durham where she is studying is really patchy and I had to reluctantly use a Tesla charger as the other three locations I had tried previously were either out of order or only charging at 7kW.
I got the car as I rarely drive long distances and my workplace offers free charging. It is great for pootling about but long journeys are painful. I have various apps and guess I need to plan better but it feels like a tremendous faff compared to driving an ICE car.
@cletus - in the better weather I’ll get around 220 miles, and now in the colder climate (Scotland) I’m getting 150 at a push
@Zedsdead thanks. I had heard about drop offs in colder weather but assumed that it would be 10-15%.
More fool me for not doing proper research. Luckily as I mentioned above I don't drive that much.
Does anyone sign up with charger networks for discounts just for doing long trips? - I think I would have saved a bit getting a one month Gridserve sub (£7.99 for a 25% discount) on my recent trip. They seem a bit crap compared to Tesla as they do not do adaptive pricing.
Public chargers just seem ludicrously expensive compared to buying petrol.
Does anyone sign up with charger networks for discounts just for doing long trips? - I think I would have saved a bit getting a one month Gridserve sub (£7.99 for a 25% discount) on my recent trip. They seem a bit crap compared to Tesla as they do not do adaptive pricing.
I keep considering it and then forgetting until I'm rocking up to the ionity chargers at Carlisle. Definitely makes sense depending on car and distance. For my 500 mile round trip to the Lake District, I think the savings were going to be about £10, taking into conisderation the monthly charge for the subscription, as long as I didn't over charge on the way home.
Still not got my Octopus install arranged. Utterly useless process. I need to keep refreshing this link they've sent me in the vain hope that some appointment becomes available at some undetermined point in the future. My car is coming next week.
The farce continues
I've given Octopus a month. I must've clicked on the "Book your installation" link 500+ times and there's not a sniff of an appointment available
A couple of days ago the link stopped taking me to a potential appointment page and just directs me to a generic "would you like an EV charger from us" page on the Octopus site
I phoned them this morning, explained what's happened and told the woman on the phone I wanted to cancel my order
"Thanks for letting us know" was her reply!!!
I said "What do you mean thanks for letting you know, you've got £1200 of my money and haven't delivered what I ordered, how do I get my money back?"
She had no idea. She suggested I email them but wasn't able to tell me what the email address was.
FOR ANYONE ELSE CONSIDERING ORDERING VIA OCTOPUS, DON'T. GET IT SORTED VIA SOMEONE LOCAL
FOR ANYONE ELSE CONSIDERING ORDERING VIA OCTOPUS, DON'T. GET IT SORTED VIA SOMEONE LOCAL
Sounds truly ridiculous. I was luckier. They quoted a multi-month wait but I got an appointment in a few weeks.
But ..
Today's Octopus gripe:
They are tightening up their policing of charging periods on IOG, and will be only allowing 6 hours of charging at low price. Which might not be so bad except that THEY (well, Ohme) control the charge rate (once you tell them how many kWh you want), so you can't guarantee to not exceed the permitted time.
I am a bit confused by the proposed changes, though they state that they will update the app to allow you to stop at 6 hours. I am not sure that my combination of car, IOG and Hypervolt 3 really allow me to add a % . I have to set the 80% limit in the car.
Sometimes the charge rate is 3kw/h, how will that work ?
I am a bit confused by the proposed changes,
They seem a bit confused themselves !! They recommend charging every day, which I don't want to do (doesn't suit my usage, which is a longish trip every few days)
I set octopus app at 100% then set the car app at whatever % charge i want eg. 80-90-100%
and will be only allowing 6 hours of charging at low price
There's 6 hours of EV charging AND a guaranteed 6hrs off-peak between 11.30 and 5.30. So if your car isn't charging at 2am, you still get peak. It does say they reserve the right to charge you full price for charging if they can't fit you in within 6hrs. So I suppose it would need some sort of preference to be specified in the app e.g. I would like to charge to 80% but only if you can do it cheaply, otherwise whatever.
There's 6 hours of EV charging AND a guaranteed 6hrs off-peak between 11.30 and 5.30.
You say that like it's a good thing 🙂 There's 6 hours of guaranteed off-peak - as always. But until now you could get as much time as you needed to charge your EV. Now you only get 6 hours and after that you're paying full whack. Sometimes my car is charging at a very low rate (set by Ohme) - I'd be a bit pissed off if they counted that against my 6 hours. Seems like it's not thought through properly.
But until now you could get as much time as you needed to charge your EV.
If I roll home with about 5% left it's about 9 hours to charge a 77kWh battery back to 80%. But that's pretty rare and I'm usually not doing another big trip the next day so just need to remember to set a partial charge. Though as I control charging via Home Assistant I'll probably set something up to alert me if it's going to need more than 40kwh so I don't forget.
There's 6 hours of EV charging AND a guaranteed 6hrs off-peak between 11.30 and 5.30
But the charging period and the cheap rate period may occur at the same time... so it could be only 6 hours.
But the charging period and the cheap rate period may occur at the same time... so it could be just 6 hours.
Worse than that - they know when you have your car charging (and at what rate) so they can limit it to a MAXIMUM of 6 hours regardless of the off-peak charging for the rest of your house.
There's 6 hours of EV charging AND a guaranteed 6hrs off-peak between 11.30 and 5.30.
The AND has been confusing - the new IOG statement has been very confusing as it unfolded on email, Reddit and finally their blog.
https://octopus.energy/blog/intelligent-octopus-go-charge-limit/
They could have split it out and qualified as it seems, and correct me if I'm wrong, you get;
- HOUSE : Off peak for the house only overnight, as before.
- CAR : 6 hours of scheduled car charging, off peak rate, at any point in a 24 hour window from noon to noon. Any more than 6 hours is at peak rate, no matter when.
Anything over 6 hours is billed at peak.
To me that would have been clearer and stopped a lot of questions (assuming I have finally understood it).
so no point in plugging car in during day to get a cheap rate schedule as I charge house batteries at night.
edit
still not sure
I’m not sure I understand. Can you share some examples of how it works?
Imagine you need a 5-hour charge (that’s what most people need).
Scenario 1: we schedule all of the 5 hours outside of the off-peak period (eg. between 2:00-4:00pm, and between 8:00pm-11:00pm)
- You get off-peak rates for your home and for your car between 2:00-4:00pm and between 8:00pm-11:00pm
- You also get off-peak rates for your home between 11:30pm and 5:30am (you always do)
While we're at it...
They also say "plug in every day" as though it's the answer. It's not, at least for everyone;
- I either don't need to (as I WFH and don't use the car every day) or can't (as I'm away for a couple of days and plan to get home on as close to 15-20% as possible)
- The selling point of IOG was "plug in and we'll have your car ready for you". It now won't be in case 2 above.
Also since the charger can dynamically slow the rate of charge, the 6 hours is not guaranteed to give full charge rate (my 7.4KW charger only hits 6.6KW at best anyway). With 6 hours of low rate I'll only hit maximum 39.6Kw so it's going to take 2 days to charge, or cost about another £3.30 extra (For full charges with peak top ups, average Kw cost per charge goes from 7p to 13p. Average cost per mile goes from 2.5 to 4p, before the incoming 3p)
Instead of using my battery range, I'll be charging every 40Kw (50% capacity, so 30-80%) when at home. Suddenly all the issues with range anxiety are less important, and a 42Kw battery may have made more financial sense!
Their use cases also don't take everyone into account, and it sounds like a reaction to offset some people "gaming" the system.
By gaming, I now find out this is either people setting a low charge rate so they get longer cheap times for the house, or user with non connected cars setting a high target rate (such as 100%) in the app, to get allocated more slots. I hadn't appreciated the second one, that I needed to manage my charge via the Octopus app. I just want to plug my car in without doing any maths.
I may have unknowingly been doing this (same as bruneep) , as it was never pointed out that I had to set desired charge in the Octopus app. All I want to do is plug in, and charge. It turns out I was expected to know my target rate (e.g. 80%), check my current charge state (e.g. 25%), then tell IOG app that I want 55% by a certain time. What a faff! Since neither of us drive to work regularly I just set it as late as possible in the hope of getting more cheap house energy in the morning.
Let me know if I'm doing that wrong too! (IOG / Hopervolt / Polestar)
Scenario 1: we schedule all of the 5 hours outside of the off-peak period (eg. between 2:00-4:00pm, and between 8:00pm-11:00pm)
- You get off-peak rates for your home and for your car between 2:00-4:00pm and between 8:00pm-11:00pm
I don't think this is now the case and it's what they're aiming to stop.
"You'll also receive up to 6 hours of discounted smart charging every 24 hours these may be during the 6 hours of off-peak, outside those times, or a mix of both"
....You may get it (or part of it) but you may not.
You also get off-peak rates for your home between 11:30pm and 5:30am (you always do)
Yes. Why would you not charge the car during this time?
I just set it as late as possible in the hope of getting more cheap house energy in the morning.
i.e. gaming the system!
TBH super cheap rates where always going to be under scrutiny and liable to change so it shouldn't be a surprise. Yesterdays announcement of the grid upgrade will also affect things in the long run.
Yes. Why would you not charge the car during this time?
That's the bit I'm struggling with. You can't with the current smart charging plans in place.
They allocate 6 hours of car charging at any time. The house is then cheap at those fixed times. What is to stop people charging 'manually' during this period?
Maybe a Home Assistant integration could solve it?
- Is smart charging scheduled? NO
- Is the house on Off Peak? YES
- THEN Charge
Do they have a way of knowing that it's the car, rather than a battery, a bank of kettles, a welder, etc? Charger API working bi-directionally?
i.e. gaming the system!
Ha, indeed! 😉
But it's down to them to allocate slots so the more room they get, the better all round? No point driving higher pre-8am demand when it's not required for me. They can now give me a later slot to load spread, or schedule me all overnight to get peak out of me. Their choice!
super cheap rates where always going to be under scrutiny and liable to change
Absolutely. And I'm highly aware of the irony of having a nice EV and grumbling about a couple of pence a mile! I'll still save nearly £1k a year on fuel, for a far nicer driving experience.
My biggest frustration is the poorly structured, confusing communication from Octopus!
I'm completely confused now (I'm not a IOG user)! I though the whole idea was that car charging was supposed to be between 23:30 and 05:50 with the possibility of some extra slots thrown in.
magine you need a 5-hour charge (that’s what most people need).
Scenario 1:we schedule all of the 5 hours outside of the off-peak period (eg. between 2:00-4:00pm, and between 8:00pm-11:00pm)
No. If you schedule outside the off-peak rate you might get cheap power, you might not. It's only if there's a surplus of power. People took the piss like this and that's what they are trying to stop.
What is to stop people charging 'manually' during this period?
Maybe a Home Assistant integration could solve it?
- Is smart charging scheduled? NO
- Is the house on Off Peak? YES
- THEN Charge
Do they have a way of knowing that it's the car, rather than a battery, a bank of kettles, a welder, etc? Charger API working bi-directionally?
Yes, that's why the car or the charger need to be integrated to get this feature. They interrogate the car/charger to know when you were actually charging it. Your car will be charging according to their schedule that they set. If you manually set your car to charge (somehow) then it knows you're not following their schedule and you won't get cheap rate (unless it's overnight).
The IOG thing is a bit annoying. My Ohme charger automatically sets the slots and charging speed so it will be difficult to know whether it will go over six hours or not. Theoretically six hours gives me 42 kWh but in practice Ohme/ Octopus slow the charging rate down and charge over a much longer period.
The IOG thing is a bit annoying. My Ohme charger automatically sets the slots and charging speed so it will be difficult to know whether it will go over six hours or not. Theoretically six hours gives me 42 kWh but in practice Ohme/ Octopus slow the charging rate down and charge over a much longer period.
It doesn't work like that. If you plug in at 2330 and In the Octopus app you tell it you need 42kwh (you'll need to put 42 as percentage of your car's capacity) you'll get 42%....unless there are some WiFi/4g connection issues. It'll just program the full window for your charge.. if you plug in early it might ir bring it forward or push it back depending on when you plug it and tell it you need the car ready. But I can't see a down side to this - only upside as the rest of your house is also cheap too. It's 1933 now and my car is home and charging for the next 3 hours, then programmed to stop for a few hours before starting again. Quids in - my evening of debauchery is now a quarter price.
It doesn't work like that.
It does work like that. Looking at my charging history, the most extreme example is 10 hours to deliver 11 kWh.That would mean four hours at peak rate.
The only way to avoid it is to, as you say, plug it in at 2330 and tell it to stop by 0530. Which does rather defeat the purpose of intelligent charging. I'm not sure doing that complies with their T&Cs.
Yeah the ohme charger definitely varies the charging rate depending on factors that I don't understand. I've seen it charge at a rate as low as 1.3kw before. It's not load balancing/throttling because the rest of the house has high usage, it just seem like octopus tell it to reduce the charge rate at times.
It does work like that. Looking at my charging history, the most extreme example is 10 hours to deliver 11kWh.Thatwould mean four hours at peak rate.
Did you want/need 11kwh of charge or did you want more?
If the former, what's the problem? If the latter - something is broken.
Did you want/need 11kwh of charge or did you want more?
If the former, what's the problem? If the latter - something is broken
The problem is that I will no longer receive all of it at the cheaper rate, because it took longer than six hours.
Either you are are getting it all at cheap rate and you don't don't really understand what's going on....or something is broken.
Case in point - tonight I need 35kwh of charge. I plugged in at about 6pm when I got home and went on the octopus app and told it how much I need and that I need the car ready by 6am. It decided to give me half an hour straight away then programmed me 3 more hours from 8.30pm. Then the rest I'm getting at Idon'tgivea****O'clock......It will ALL...I repeat ALL... be at the cheap rate. It's at the cheap rate because IOG decided that that's when it wanted to give me the charge because it's blowing a hoolie and they are getting it to sell on to me for sod all.
For a day or two the app will make it look like I'll have paid top dollar for the hours before 2330, but give it a day or two and the octopus faires will do their thing and make those charging hours cheap too...along with all the other leccy I'm using in those 3 hours this evening. The washing machine is on to get it hung up before I go to bed and these words are being types at 4 for the price of 1.
Either you are are getting it all at cheap rate and you don't don't really understand what's going on....or something is broken.
I understand perfectly well, thanks, but I'm not sure you do. I am currently getting it all at cheap rate, but will not under the new rules, unless I implement a workaround which I think contravenes their T&Cs. The scenario you describe is exactly what I do: the point is that it takes longer than six hours and six hours will be the new limit for cheap charging.
I understand perfectly well, thanks, but I'm not sure you do.
Ah - so you are saying that the charger is actually ON for more that 6 hours, rather than there is more than 6 hours from the beginning of the charge to the end of the charge.
If the latter (because the charger is charging below 7kw) - I'd not worry about it. The rules have not changed yet. Ohme/Octopus is a big partnership - it's a massive seller for them - their biggest brand by a good margin. If any charger will be integrated to work with the tightening of the rule its Ohme. It's a non problem.
Ah - so you are saying that the charger is actually ON for more that 6 hours, rather than there is more than 6 hours from the beginning of the charge to
the end of the charge.
No, I'm saying that there is more than six hours from the beginning to the end of the charge. Octopus/Ohme can and does throttle the current, presumably so they keep their wholesale costs low. Octopus has already said that six hours is the limit
No, I'm saying that there is more than six hours from the beginning to the end of the charge. Octopus/Ohme can and does throttle the current, presumably so they keep their wholesale costs low. Octopus has already said that six hours is the limit
You are still not being very clear. Do you mean (I think you are) that the accumulated hours of actual charging are more than 6?
I've done a quick look at the Ohme FAQ - https://ohme-ev.com/support/troubleshooting-slow-charging/ I'm guessing you have already read that bit. We have an Ohme epod but it's rarely used and on OG now rather than IOG. We mainly use an Indra on a supply with IOG and thats on/off and either 7.3kw or nowt. If Octopus are using their Ohme integration to throttle the current so that the total charge takes more than 6 hours - well post Jan I'd bet my house they stop using that feature or make an exemption. Again, I think it'll be a non problem.
Casual looking in - this smart charging app based stuff seems way too unnecessary for its own good.
Surely plug it in over-night on cheap tarrif and just grab all the hours that are available to you.
What's the advantage over just a cheap linear 6/7 hours? (Is it daytime cheap charging ?)
You are still not being very clear. Do you mean (I think you are) that the accumulated hours of actual charging are more than 6?
That's what I've said I think three times now, yes.
Surely plug it in over-night on cheap tarrif and just grab all the hours that are available to you.
You're not really supposed to do that on the IOG tariff. The idea is to leave it plugged in and the tech works out when to charge.
What's the advantage over just a cheap linear 6/7 hours
Looking at Octopus specifically - IOG is 17% cheaper than OG and (still) 20% more hours of the cheap stuff daily. If that matters is up to you I guess.
Personally, from an environmental perspective (which was one of my reason to go EV) - I like the fact that with smart charging I'm making my needs as flexible to satisfy as possible. If there is bags of energy available at a non standard time - might as well get it in my car.
That's what I've said I think three times now, yes.
really? ...what you said was "I'm saying that there is more than six hours from the beginning to the end of the charge" - which could easily be comprehended as time on the clock or hours accumulated. Try to be slightly more precise with your language if you are going to get prickly.
What's not clear to me yet is that does this truncate the daily overnight period. Say you plug in at 6pm and octopus have already charged the car for 2 hours before the cheap rate starts do you no longer get the full period that night? Hope that is not the case since we are brimming the house battery every night (as well as 2 cars).
I think it's now pretty clear. They are treating car and house separate.
No change to overnight on the house
Limit to 6 hours in every 24 for your car, which may or nay not align with the house.. If it doesn't you get more cheap slots for the house but no more car charging.
How can they differentiate between house and car? Yes I know the car (or charger, whichever is connected) can report when it is charging but that's not billing standard data. So my question remains if the car's 6 hours is up part way through the cheap over night house slot then what happens. Does the car stop charging at that point (by command) or does you then start getting charged more.
2nd question would be what happens if I plug in when it's very low after a long trip, say 5%. The app is configured to go to 80%, I don't need the car at 80% for a few days so would be happy for it to charge whenever over that timeframe. 5-80% is going to go over 6 hours so I'm then going to get charged more because I don't have a way to say that I don't need it to be ready at 80% for several days. I can't tell the car to only charge to 50% on day one as battery care resets the target level after every charge segment (for the same reason I have to disable battery care completely if I want to go over 80%).
Edit;
Have now seen the blog entry (linked above, missed that yesterday) and both questions are answered. Data from the connected device will be used to separate house from car and the app will be updated to allow more control for the second question.
Surely plug it in over-night on cheap tarrif and just grab all the hours that are available to you.
You're not really supposed to do that on the IOG tariff. The idea is to leave it plugged in and the tech works out when to charge.
Right I suppose it's a choice to suit your needs.
I just want to wake up with a full charge or a nearly full charge at my end.
That said I've had a dumb charger for years so there's a barrier to entry for me.
Personally, from an environmental perspective (which was one of my reason to go EV) - I like the fact that with smart charging I'm making my needs as flexible to satisfy as possible. If there is bags of energy available at a non standard time - might as well get it in my car
Get it - but there's so much debate here about what's going off just seems a weight on the consumer to organise their life around a tariff - all I'm saying is I can't get beyond plugging it in overnight when it's clearly cheap/low demand and waking up full etc. (which won't suit everyone of course.)
It's feels they've created a problem to a solution that was already working okay. The reliance on apps for everything is both a benefit and a curse.
(I totally get some people work nights and need their car at different times. )
How much is this tariff? I was a customer with octopus at work but ditched them because of their frustrating charge shaping on direct debit and not so suitable tariff choice.
I
That said I've had a dumb charger for years so there's a barrier to entry for me.
Ours is effectively dumb now as the smarts were killed by a platform update. The car connects though which is enough.
all I'm saying is I can't get beyond plugging it in overnight when it's clearly cheap/low demand and waking up full etc. (
You can do that on this tariff.
That said I've had a dumb charger for years so there's a barrier to entry for me.
Ours is effectively dumb now as the smarts were killed by a platform update. The car connects though which is enough.
all I'm saying is I can't get beyond plugging it in overnight when it's clearly cheap/low demand and waking up full etc. (
You can do that on this tariff.
It's feels they've created a problem to a solution that was already working okay.
But some people were rinsing it and filling home batteries and running a launderette while charging their car, usually by throttling the charger so it takes longer. Hence the increased integration of the charger. A few ruin things for the rest.
And as for 'living your life around a tariff' - that's a little melodramatic. I plug in, tap the app to say how much charge I want and when. Not hard.
Just imagine having to travel to a whole other place and decide how much fuel to put in and do it right there and then! Madness!
Hope that is not the case since we are brimming the house battery every night (as well as 2 cars).
Forgive my ignorance, but how do you charge a house battery? If it's no different to putting an immersion heat on and not smart at all you'll still be able to charge it between 2330 & 0530 regardless of when IOG chooses to plan the 6 hours of charging.
The 2 cars thing will become an issue for more households. 6 hours is sat 180miles in the summer and less in the winter. There will be some use cases that won't be enough. My other thought over it is 3phase. If you are lucky enough to have 3 phase at home does that mean you still get 6 hours...but now at 22kwh?
Limit to 6 hours in every 24 for your car,
Limit to 6 hours from noon to noon, AIUI.
Ohme to rush out an app fix to allow you to limit charging at 6 hours. What could possibly go wrong?