[Closed] The Daily Mail was right (Romanians content..)

A tattoo of an anchor at the tattoo.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_settlement_of_Britain ]Bloody immigrants coming here taking our country[/url]

[quote=derekfish ]Lefties ffs, they love to reel out the racist tag in any debate like this, waste of time discussing anything here.
Just vote UKIP, it really winds them up.
Hi Graeme. Not seen you on the forum for a while. Have you been going through a bit of a "transition"? 🙂

* waves *

@grum you asked for personal experience on that other thread so I gave you some

My views aren't tabloid fuelled, the only English paper I read is the Guardian (because it's free online)

@teamhurtmore you are free to disagree anytime as is everyone else.

Quoting that immigrants contribute more than they receive is dangerous as its based on a historic situation very different to that we see today and for how the future looks. I have been an immigrant into the US and Singapore and in both cases there was a stringent application process and I had to have a job before I went. My parents (and me as a 5yr old) where immigrants into Australia in the 60's. I have no issue whatsoever with the concept of immigration, it's a matter of how it's managed and the fact is with freedom of movement within the EU it's not managed at all. When our EU partners where of similar economic standing that made sense, the more recent accelerated expansion is very different indeed.

scotroutes - Member

Massively OT, but I'll be out your way Sunday if you're up for a run?

Doubt it would be worth your while. Currently ManFlu'd and hoping to be well enough to mibbe get to the Puffer for the end and a few photos. 😥

@Junkyard on the welfare state point, you say "the majority of people contribute more than they take" ? Not sure about that. The top 10% pay 25% of taxes so in fact the 90% are taking more than they pay in. It's not about comparing benefits to tax paid, it's the whole cost of running the state including the NHS.

Why is it not unreasonable to ask immigrants to have a job before they arrive, not hard with the Internet is it to search for work ? Why not insist your children must live in the uk to claim child benefit ? Why not insist you must have been in the uk a minimum of three months before claiming unemployment benefit ?

but as immigrants are net contributors your argument is totally redundant jambalaya!

Massively OT

When was it OT?

A toasted club sandwich has got to be up there with the best.

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jambalaya - Member
Angela Merkel quoted the following stat, Europe has 7% or World's population, 25% of its economic activity and 50% of its welfare spending.

Referring to ageing populations. Not immigration.

Curious that Gideon has chosen to quote a speech from over a year ago now, and in the wrong context...

but as immigrants are net contributors your argument is totally redundant jambalaya!

You cannot just come into the UK and claim benefits though, even from the EU.

Of all the migrants who claim benefits only 2% are not entitled to it (source: would you believe it, the Adam Smith Institute!!!)

Migrants represent 13% of the total workforce but only 7% of claimants. And numbers actually claiming are small in absolute and %age terms.

Odd why we are caught up in this debate. Even Chukku Umunna got caught out and trapped into feeling the need it make a false point here on QT last week. It was obvious that he was BSing at the time. At least you expected it from UKIP and Nadine Dorris. All very odd.

(Looking forward to the extra chat on the next ride!!!! 😉 )

From today's FT:

Mr Barroso, however, said: “Contrary to impressions created recently in national debates, [free movement] is not a freedom without rules. If there is an abuse of free movement the member states are not only entitled, they have the duty to act.”

The top 10% pay 25% of taxes so in fact the 90% are taking more than they pay in

The top 10% pay 25% or what? 25% of the income tax take or 25% of the whole of the governments tax take?

@teamhurtmore as I understand it you can claim job seekers allowance as soon as you arrive. In any case my point is not about benefit claimants, for example you can come to the uk earn £10k and be entitled to all services like NHS while paying nothing back in.

@maccruiskeen, income tax and national insurance so not corporation tax althoughthe big companies often pay very little corporation tax vs their employee taxes.

jambalaya - sorry to bring facts into this:

Usually people who come to the UK to work can't get public funds. 'Public funds' means most welfare benefits and local authority housing. You might be able to get free NHS treatment and your children will be allowed to go to state school.

However, if you're from a country in the European Economic Area (EEA), the rules are different. EEA nationals have the right not to be treated worse than a British citizen. You can find a list of EEA countries on the DWP website at www.dwp.gov.uk.

In practice, even if you come from one of these countries, you won't automatically get benefits. For example, if you’re an EEA jobseeker who has never worked in the UK, you won't be able to claim benefits like Income Support, income-based Jobseeker's allowance, Child Benefit, Housing Benefit or Council Tax Reduction. But if you're an EEA worker who has been employed in the UK before becoming unemployed, you might be able to claim benefits whilst you’re looking for new work. This depends on which EEA country you're from and how long you've worked in the UK.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/benefits_e/faq_index_benefits/faq_benefits_entitlement_if_coming_from_abroad.htm

From the CAB. Sounds quite reasonable no?

And I believe this is known as 'shifting the goalposts':

In any case my point is not about benefit claimants, for example you can come to the uk earn £10k and be entitled to all services like NHS while paying nothing back in.

You should really read up on confirmation bias - it's fascinating, and doesn't just apply to swivel-eyed UKIP supporters. 😉

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Not sure that is correct - at the very least they have to pass the habitual residents test. And there is a requirement to prove that you are not going to be a burden on the state. My understanding is that our "right to reside" test is actually more stringent than in other EU countries - indeed we are getting flak for that from the EU or commission (can't remember which) right now.

(Bon nuit et je t'ai envoye un text !)

The BBC describes it slightly differently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521

Either way, it's hardly the free-for-all that Paul Dacre and jambalaya imagine it to be.

For example, at the census ten years ago Polish didn't feature in top 10, now they are our second nationality. This is entirely due to freedom of movement now they are inside the EU. There is no doubt immigration from the new and poor Eastern European EU states will be increasing dramatically. I feel it would be much better if this was on a managed basis, by all means come if you have a job lined up and you are approved.

Bon nuit, vraiment. A demain

scotroutes - Member
Doubt it would be worth your while. Currently ManFlu'd and hoping to be well enough to mibbe get to the Puffer for the end and a few photos.

Ahh ya big Jessie. I'll fire over an email Saturday, if it's good weather I'm likely to find a hill or two en route. Then go for a head torch run in the late afternoon. You'll be reet.

Mind you, if the weather is pants it'll be a 15 miler or so from lunch time from Loch Morlich or thereabouts.

For example, at the census ten years ago Polish didn't feature in top 10, now they are our second nationality. This is entirely due to freedom of movement now they are inside the EU.

What's wrong with that? Unless you just don't like foreigners I can't see the problem. The area where I work in the west end of Morecambe which is very deprived has improved considerably since the influx of Poles, who by and large are very hard workers (and drinkers 🙂 ).

I feel it would be much better if this was on a managed basis, by all means come if you have a job lined up and you are approved.

Is there some evidence that significant numbers of unemployed people are coming to this country (and by evidence I don't mean tabloid newspaper articles), and that it's causing problems? And do you feel that UK citizens should be restricted from moving to other EU countries before finding work too?

The whole country has been ruined by imigtation all those Celts building ugly hillforts Romans digging up the countryside Normans putting alien churches everywhere Nordic hooligans running riot. England for the picts I say. If your ancestors were not born here you ain't welcome obviously my own Norman family excluded.

So can someone talk me through what happens to a Romanian family as soon as they step out of the airport.
What are they entitled to?
Not trolling,honestly, if you read the press you would assume they are given a mansion and a Ferrari .
I would like to know the facts.

The CAB and BBC links above zippykona.

BTW:

There have been anxieties that 2014 will be a repeat of 2004, when after Poland and several other countries joined the EU, one million immigrants flocked to the U.K. — far outstripping government estimates. However, those predicting an "invasion" seem to misunderstand that Romanians and Bulgarians have been able to travel to the U.K. since 2007, when their countries joined the EU. Temporary restrictions meant that they had to apply for work permits before — now they won't have to. It seems unlikely that people with the determination or desperation to move their lives overseas would wait seven years for it to be a little bit easier.

http://www.policymic.com/mobile/articles/78953/uk-s-right-wing-media-manufactures-ridiculous-controversy-over-flood-of-25-romanian-immigrants

what is british?
norman,
anglo saxon,
viking,
roman,
celtic,
neanderthal,
homo heidelbergensis etc etc

the history of humanity is just waves of migration, its what we do

The whole country has been ruined by imigtation all those Celts building ugly hillforts Romans digging up the countryside Normans putting alien churches everywhere Nordic hooligans running riot. England for the picts I say. If your ancestors were not born here you ain't welcome obviously my own Norman family excluded.

These aren't really the best examples of immigration tbh. I'd pick some of the later ones that didn't involve violent domination by a foreign power. Who knows what happened with the Celts, but it looks very much like the previous culture at least was swept away never to be seen again.

zippykona - Member
So can someone talk me through what happens to a Romanian family as soon as they step out of the airport.
What are they entitled to?
Not trolling,honestly, if you read the press you would assume they are given a mansion and a Ferrari .
I would like to know the facts.

Keith Vaz meets them, takes them to Costa Coffee while a scrum of photographers take pictures
So the second theyve stepped off the plane theyve had a cup of coffee ~(at airport prices!) and you know Vazzy will be claiming back on expenses.
it also appears that Vaz has had some sort of toasted cibbatta, which is very un-british, not a pie or sausage roll in sight!
[img] [/img]

it also appears that Vaz has had some sort of toasted cibbatta, which is very un-british, not a pie or sausage roll in sight!

Given he's a Leicester MP, and therefore not far from Melton Mowbray, I believe this to be a hanging offence.

The Leicester Mercury rather enjoys poking fun at him, though!
[img] [/img]

and...

[url= http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Vaz-photo-opportunity/story-20271046-detail/story.html ]Relating to Keith Vaz and his numerous appearances in the Leicester Mercury, I would like to point out that on Sunday, at about 10am, I will be putting up the Christmas lights at my home and shortly thereafter I will be changing the front wheel on my car.

If Mr Vaz wishes to attend, I will arrange for a photographer to be present.

Sam Baker, Broughton Astley.

[/url]

😆

To be fair to Vaz! at least he had patronised a coffee chain that at least paid some tax last year (@£15m). He's one shrewd cookie old Vaz!

Surely Vaz is a beacon of hope. A shining example (with or without pies) of what can be achieved by immigrant families throughout their flair, talent, endeavour and general wonderfulness.

You too can have your [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10428763/Sketch-Keith-Vaz-Chairman-Wow.html ]own hardback, glossy, weighty coffee table book[/url]

Don't try and tell me its not pride of place in your house Flashy 😉

😀

what is british?

Large sections of London were Jews for many many centuries.

Many Polish people have settled over the decades in Britain. Many changed their surnames to assimilate.

Then theres the French...

Post-WWI (and before) didn't loads of Germans relocate to America etc?

We are a massive mix. Just because we haven't been conquered since 1066 doesn't mean we are 'pure blood'

Binners, you could at least chose someone less slippery that Teflon Vaz as a beacon of hope.

I'm not too well up on the history of the British empire, but I was told that my family ended up coming here from their native land, because of a shortage of spuds (we probably contributed to that). What can I say? We've always really, really liked crisps. And chips. So it seemed like the logical decision to come to the promised land…….

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We've always really, really liked crisps. And chips.

We might be related y'know

Mine came over for some rape and pillage and founded the midlands.

Are Polish really the second largest nationality here? I would have thought it was those Irish coming over here laying our floors and women, what with that sexy accent of theirs.

*swoons*

*offers binners something else to sniff in the absence of smelling salts*

Are Polish really the second largest nationality here? I would have thought it was those Irish coming over here laying our floors and women, what with that sexy accent of theirs.

Don't forget about the dreamy eyes.

laying our floors and women, what with that sexy accent of theirs.

I thought it was drinking, telling jokes and generally carrying on?

Drinking hora? Of course, as long as it's in Irish pubs. 😀

These aren't really the best examples of immigration tbh. I'd pick some of the later ones that didn't involve violent domination by a foreign power. Who knows what happened with the Celts, but it looks very much like the previous culture at least was swept away never to be seen again.

Each wave killed the indigenous male population (or prevented them from breeding) but kept the women.

So yes, a very bad example of immigration.

Just because we haven't been conquered since 1066

My Dutch friend always laughs at that, and begs to differ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution

Invited invasions don't count