So we are November to March and all I’m getting is “maybe”, “I forgot”, “don’t know” and wasn’t at any Cobr meetings.
Industrial quantities of coke and booze will do that…
But timing wasn’t on his side, he ended up with Brexit and a pandemic, both of which needed skills to navigate that he clearly doesn’t have.
Whilst he could claim circumstances on the covid front the brexit mess was in large part down to him. So he is completely responsible for the timing there.
Industrial quantities of coke and booze will do that…
My source into Tory HQ has said there were pics of senior figures doing drugs in lockdown. He's usually pretty accurate, but somehow they’ve never been made public, which surprises me now
'Should never have shaken hands with covid patients': he didn't. I've posted the newspaper several times on here where the staff at KGH said they had no cv patients at the time of his visit. Plus there's been a detailed analysis flying around the net challenging the idea that he was ever close to death. He is, however, a terminal liar.
Whilst he could claim circumstances on the covid front the brexit mess was in large part down to him
He got ****ing elected on getting Brexit done so he can never dodge that one.
Haven't listened to all of it, but it feels like the KC hasn't really started going for the jugular yet.
Part of the problem is that the evidence and the data the government needed was already out there as northern Italy took off but being disregarded because of English exceptionalism and bravado, the culture he brought into no.10. So we waited for British cases to emerge, at which point it was too late.
There were plenty of voices in February and March looking at the curves and saying there was no way we were four weeks behind Italy, more like 10 days. There were plenty of voices from Jan onwards making it clear that it would be highly abnormal if there was no asymptomatic transmission, so the precautionary approach should be that this was happening.
But the inquiry has tended to hear not from the international epidemiologists and viral experts who were shouting from the rooftops at the time, but from the scientific advisers who were buying into the more optimistic numbers and assumptions being bandied about, and were more vulnerable to having their views further softened by the PM chuntering on about how we'd sail through.
Haven’t listened to all of it, but it feels like the KC hasn’t really started going for the jugular yet.
He's getting an incredibly easy ride.
He just wriggled his way out of the fact that Manchester was given a 'punishment beating' for purely political purposes, for being arsey. When he was asked if that was the case, he totally ignored the question and just went off on one with a load of waffle about Liverpool
Can't believe he was allowed to get away with that
So we are November to March and all I’m getting is “maybe”, “I forgot”, “don’t know”
That worked for Nicola Sturgeon (though that might unravelling as a result of the Court of Session decision today)
I vividly remember a phone call with an Italian colleague who was incredulous that the Champions League match was going ahead (Liverpool?). He was describing friends and neighbours who had died or were dying, meanwhile we were happily allowing hundreds of Spanish people to nip over to mingle with a load of Brits for the night.
If I was getting that message (as the obligatory STW IT working middle-manager), surely the gov were getting a clearer picture.
Listening to johnson, could anyone say...prime ministerial right there; competence exemplified.
Inept, dissembling, obfuscation, deliberately waffling more than usual; attempting to shed as little light as possible.
Much as I would like to see Hugo Keith 'go for the jugular' - as I think he would if this was a criminal trial - this is unlikely to happen in an enquiry but he certainly has a 'verbal stiletto' which he uses on occasion.
surely the gov were getting a clearer picture.
That would be a big, fat, no, according to our Boris. Nobody told him anything.
If ever we needed a prime minister with an enquiring mind, capable of understanding science and maths at a basic level, and prepared to observe and learn from the experiences of other countries, this was the time. None of that applies to this wretched fake. But we get the calibre of politician we deserve, I suppose.
And worse than that, covid clearly occupied little of his flabby mindspace until we were already well down the road. Every waking moment should have been spent driving his government to tackle the crisis. But he couldn't even be bothered to turn up to COBRA.
But he couldn’t even be bothered to turn up to COBRA.
Finalising his divorce and trying to write a book wasn't he?
Probably shagging at least one mistress on the side.
Can't interrupt these important matters for minor things like a pandemic.
He’s getting an incredibly easy ride.<br /><br />
probably when to school together
We were in the same hotel as the Madrid side (Holiday Inn, Manchester). It was nuts, bad news was coming out of Spain and there was 2 coachloads of them, wives and girlfriends etc too. Trying to weave around/away from them to get a buffet breakfast was a challenge. We went into lockdown the next day, 10 days I think before the national lockdown was called.
I vividly remember a phone call with an Italian colleague who was incredulous that the Champions League match was going ahead (Liverpool?). He was describing friends and neighbours who had died or were dying, meanwhile we were happily allowing hundreds of Spanish people to nip over to mingle with a load of Brits for the night
It was in Liverpool and the match was against Atletico Madrid. 5000 Atletico fans flew in from Madrid. Most of them made a weekend out of it. At that time Madrid had the highest covid infection rate in the whole of Europe. La Liga had stopped all football matches weeks earlier
I don’t know about your Italian colleague, but i was completely incredulous that it was going ahead.
Then the Cheltenham Gold Cup weekend went ahead too
Absolute insanity!
Well… totally reckless criminal negligence actually
I agree the big events in March 2020 seemed ridiculous. But the scientists were actually worried that if we acted to suppress the spread of the virus, we'd put it off to the following winter when the NHS would be under more strain. so they wanted to get it over with through the summer.
Johnson could have over-ruled them and shut everything down sooner, certainly some advisers were arguing for this. But the whole point of SAGE was to provide the best scientific advice.
Then the Cheltenham Gold Cup weekend went ahead too
Amazing what you can do when you chuck a few hundred grand at the Health Secretary.
I was at the Italy / Scotland rugby match a week or two before lockdown. That really should have been cancelled as well but as far as I am aware did not turn out to be a spreader event.
Part of the problem is that the evidence and the data the government needed was already out there as northern Italy took off but being disregarded because of English exceptionalism and bravado
He keeps saying 'with the benefit of hindsight' as if thats something we only have now. He had at the time, and we all had, the benefit of Italy's hindsight. We could all see directly into our own future and know exactly what would happen if we did, or didn't, act.
He had at the time, and we all had, the benefit of Italy’s hindsight. We could all see directly into our own future and know exactly what would happen if we did, or didn’t, act.
MrsMC was leading a Scout and Guide ski trip in Switzerland that February half term. I was at home watching the disaster unfold in Italy and the first reports of it spreading via school ski trips in the UK.
I wasn't sure if they'd get back before we closed borders, or would go into quarantine, or come back with Covid. All seemed valid and justifiable possibilities at the time.
Obviously the wrong thread to start a conspiracy theory, but the Hillsborough response comes out the day Boris gives evidence, and then Honest Bob resigns to deflect from Boris.
Lord knows what they'll need to announce today!
Johnson claims today that all of his "let the virus rip" comments were designed to challenge the consensus.
So in other words he's a tactical 4D chess genius, thinking of options where no-one else could.
Or a ****ing idiot...
It’s the new Edinburgh defense.
KC for the bereaved families is really needling johnson and he's deflecting/squirming/obfuscatinng but the KC is doing well to drag him back to the question; he is telling johnson '...you're deflecting - again'.
Convenient memory loss is something of a theme with the politicians; is there something in the water at Westminster?
johnson is completely not credible; doesn't answer clearly, cannot lie consistently, disputes facts, has created an alternative reality, is now relying on alternative facts.
is now relying on alternative facts.
Ah, are we rebranding lies as "alternative facts"?!
Johnson claims today that all of his “let the virus rip” comments were designed to challenge the consensus.
I wouldn’t deny it was a scenario that needed to be discussed and considered before we had the vaccines, just to rule it out, but there's a right and wrong way to have those conversations.
crazy-legs - in johnson's mind he doesn't lie, he sees things differently; he's dangerously deluded.
Johnson claims today that all of his “let the virus rip” comments were designed to challenge the consensus.
So in other words he’s a tactical 4D chess genius, thinking of options where no-one else could.
Or a **** idiot…
It's really not the role of the PM to play devils advocate against scientific consensus during a lethal pandemic, at least not to that extent.
Except he wasn't, everyone knew he was fiercely opposed to shutting down the economy to save your gran. And you know this is why all his, and Sunak's, whatsapps are 'missing', because they are plastererd with this sentiment, and worse, and probably expressed in terms that would horrify even us.
What an embarrassment.
He is, predictably, failing to adequately answer any questions from KCs representing special interest groups and the KCs are showing increasing irritation.
I don't remember or that's not my recollection or I don't believe that's quite correct are pathetic responses from an individual who has had months to prepare for his appearance which - for any reasonable, fair minded person - would ensure they had the fullest possible command and understanding of the facts.
His preparation appears to have been focussed on...how can I evade responsibility, provide non-answers to the questions and generally say nothing to (further) damage my 'reputation'.
He is showing himself to be even more odious, reprehensible and repulsive than I thought he was.
He was handed his arse on a plate by the representative of the Northern Irish bereaved who was clearly genuinely angry as his constant evasion and just made him look like the lying clown that he is
Hearing johnson say '...let me answer that clearly' must have tempted the KC to respond with '...yes, that would be helpful - and a first'.
Could this be awkward for Sunak on Monday?
However, he is also set to be confronted over his claims that he could not deliver WhatsApp messages covering a crucial period because he had changed phones several times and the messages had not been backed up.
There have subsequently been reports that pranksters were able to access a longstanding phone number for Sunak, which rang before playing a voicemail recording. Questions are now being asked over whether Sunak has handed the inquiry access to material associated with that number.
Maybe the phone in question is sat in the "Man's Drawer of Many Things", the same as every other household?
I got a response to my letter to the inquiry, inside their self-imposed 3 week deadline, but it was just some general blah together with "your correspondence has been passed to the relevant team for consideration" so whether I get a substantive response from Vallance or anyone else about the mid-March timeline is still very much up in the air.
It's amazing.
Basically not a single Tory seems to be able to use a mobile phone.
How convenient.
The latest is Penny Mordaunt, she seems to be unable to grasp the massively mind bendingly complex app that is WhatsApp... That pretty much every kid in the country is able to use.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67780595
Soneone, somewhere, knows where the messages went and how to get them back.
There seems to be a concerted effort to conceal the decision making around the start of covid, which conveniently covers the period of awarding those huge covid PPE contracts.
I suspect we will likely never know the conversations that went on as there is absolutely no desire to do so. Or someone will leak them years from now once they are out of the political sphere, at which point it's already too late.
Utterly incredible.
no shit sherlock it's like deciding that crossing a mainroad backwards blindfold is perhaps not the best plan of action after you've been run over.
There seems to be a concerted effort to conceal the decision making around the start of covid, which conveniently covers the period of awarding those huge covid PPE contracts.
It seems to be so blatant - surely to god not everyone involved in sending and receiving those messages has lost/wiped their phone. At what point does this failure to produce evidence to the enquiry become a crime?
The accidental WhatsApp /lost my phone scenario all over again?
There are many reasons most normal businesses use Outlook/teams etc.
As, if you have people doing business via essentially private text messages, there is no oversight or accountability for the company, or as is becoming apparent, no oversight at all in government.
Oops I lost my phone, oh well!
At what point does this failure to produce evidence to the enquiry become a crime?
I think it would have to be shown that they deliberately withheld evidence. I mean we all know they did but proving it? Very hard indeed
surely to god not everyone involved in sending and receiving those messages has lost/wiped their phone
Everyone involved has clearly systematically destroyed all record of their conversations
That is glaringly obvious and also clearly the reason they used this medium as the main source of their communications
Proving they did so is another matter
It’s all about ‘plausible deniability’, though I’d question if most people think ‘oops, sorry I accidentally deleted everything’ is remotely plausible, when it appears everyone did so?
I still find it really difficult to get my head around the fact that during a time of national emergency the government used an app people use to arrange pub meet ups or whatever to deal with it.
I'm guessing if we are involved in a global conflict again our response will be coordinated on Snapchat or something.
