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I know I have posted something on the Avro Arrow before, but it must be a few years ago now. In any case, I am pleased to see that one of the most important things Canada ever contributed (at least to that point in history), is finally getting some coverage. Please take a look at this piece on the BBC website, and feel free to discuss. I would be especially interested to know the perspective of military aeroplane geeks, and if they had been aware of the Arrow before.
Ladies and gentlemen, I remind of the remarkable piece of 1950s technology that was the Avro Arrow.
I am pleased to see that one of the most important things Canada ever contributed (at least to that point in history), is finally getting some coverage.
Don't forget the kilted yaksmen.
Yep aware of it, and it's murky history. I'd say the equivalent in the UK is either the TSR-2 or the decision to try to replace a whole bunch of airplanes with the F111..
Even back in the 50's and 60's airplanes were too expensive, the technology was moving too fast, and the manufacturers were shady and often neck deep in political shenanigans.
Surely the best - the last jet that handled like a proper plane according to one of my old instructors
Homesick angel...
the canberra might have a tad of trouble in a "fight" could try dropping bombs on the other plane from above i guess 😉
funnily enough US military Public Information films about the century fighters development have recently been cropping up on my utube feed.
This is a proper jet fighter
The aircraft is designed to be able to fly with one engine, one half of the tail, one elevator, and half of a wing missing
That's a fantastic picture Flashy 👍
coolest name with a brutal look there is only one !
to infinity and beyond !!
Flashy you do realise that Lightning ran out of fuel 2 seconds after that photo was taken dont you?!😁
Always loved these things
You have confused "best" with "your favourite" 😃
The objective best being the slightly-boring-but-dependable F15, 100+ kills no combat losses due to enemy fire.
Still looks cool though! Definitely what I picture when I think "jet fighter".
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The Avro Arrow specifically must be one of the worst ever, surely 😂
That’s a fantastic picture Flashy 👍
+1
The objective best being the slightly-boring-but-dependable F15
Uh, https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/06/16/lakenheath-f-15-pilot-kill…
Tragic, not the first to go down during training though & won't be the last (same goes for any plane)
Flashy you do realise that Lightning ran out of fuel 2 seconds after that photo was taken dont you?!😁
That much power and noise doesn't come easy!
There's a self-storage place just opened up near my house that has a life-sized Lightning hanging from the roof in some kind of lobby area. Presumably it's a model - it looks kind of cool but I don't quite see what the point of it is!
OK I know its not a jet but... I read over and over a series of books as a kid based on this:
I can't for the life of me remember the (fictional) book series... but I've loved the Mosquito ever since.
This is my boyhood favourite.
This is a proper jet fighter
The aircraft is designed to be able to fly with one engine, one half of the tail, one elevator, and half of a wing missing
Except it’s not really a fighter. It’s a close air support, forward air control, and ground-attack aircraft designed for hitting armour with extreme prejudice.
That not to say it couldn’t take on a fighter, but certainly not in a dogfight - one technique was to dive into a convenient valley or use ground clutter, do a fast wing-over turn and fly head-on towards the opposing fighter and give a couple of quick bursts with the cannon. Cue rapid disincentive to continue the attack...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Republic_A-10_Thunderbolt_II
F-16 for the win. Far more beautiful plane than that F-15.
And let us not forget was the star of Top Gun rival, Iron Eagle.
Got to be the F-15 with a 104-0 kill ratio.
As one Israeli pilot said "Before the F-15 all I remember is hard missions and missing comrades. After the F-15 all I remember is victory and glory"
F-16 for the win. Far more beautiful plane than that F-15.
Very effective aircraft, developed as an air-superiority fighter, then turned into a multi-rôle aircraft. Still in service after 46 years, 26 different operators and new upgrades are still being turned out, although it’s no longer in production.
Sorry but are we all forgetting that sepecat jaguars had missiles ON TOP of the wings?
Thats school boy rule number one adding more weapons makes it cooler.
Also did they not bolt a gun on to hawks and call it a fighter?
F-16 for the win. Far more beautiful plane than that F-15.
The F16 is indeed a stunning looking aircraft, definitely one of the nicest looking.
You may mock but while not *technically* a fighter (long range air defence interceptor), the Tornado F3 looked amazing. That massive tail, the swing wing and the aggressive stance.
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The Avro story above is quite reminiscent of the doomed TSR2 story here in the UK.
Except it’s not really a fighter
I know, but it's still cool as. My sister was obsessed with these to the extent that she befriended a pilot of one at an airshow and made my dad show him round out local area
one of the most important things Canada ever contributed
superseded only by the American-Space-Shuttle-with-the-Canadian-Robot-Arm, Insulin and Celine Dion.
I imagine every EE Lighting pilot's favourite plane was a Victor K2 as that was the only thing the RAF had that could let them do actual patrols rather than intercepts.
Got to love the Lightning, though. John Ward said he happened to glance at the instruments whilst climbing over East Anglia somewhere on dry power alone and realising he was supersonic.
If you want to boost your fix of low-level fast jet photography, check this article out, it’s a bit like the Mach Loop, but nowhere near as easy to get to!
Avro Aircraft, the Canadian airplane maker created after the war
er, say what now?
the TSR-2
IIRC a lot of the technology went into the jaguar and tornado, which were arguably far more focussed and successful projects than the TSR ever would have been, the TSR was chaos from the start, too many cooks, customers and politicians involved.
Flashy you do realise that Lightning ran out of fuel 2 seconds after that photo was taken dont you?
Not wanting to be the bearer of bad news, it's not actually a photo, it's a digital painting. It is cool tho!
https://www.artquid.com/artwork/543668/86508/interceptor.html
Going by your logic then @joshvegas the Nimrod should be considered. It had Sidewinders fitted at one point.... ‘largest fighter in the RAF’
he aircraft is designed to be able to fly with one engine, one half of the tail, one elevator, and half of a wing missing
Meh...the F15 has the flying on one wing thing covered....
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The pilot landed this sucker after the wing had broken off in flight.
And the A10 isn't a jet fighter...nor was the TSR2 and arguably the Bucaneer. The best fighter in terms of good old fashioned dog fighting is currently a toss up between the F22 and Eurofighter based on joint training encounters like the Red Flag events and from the feedback of pilots who have flown both.
My personal favourite is the F18. Saw one at an airshow once...it followed an SU27 after the typical Russian flight display containing all the usual crowd pleasers like the Cobra and the low and slow high alpha fly-by, tail slide and the high speed high-G turns. It always felt like the Western fighters always seemed to be holding back for some reason, but this F18 pilot didn't. He hustled that thing around the sky and produced a display every bit as impressive as the SU27. Never seen a western fighter display like it since. And to my eye just looks the prettiest fighter, especially the E & F varients.
Half of these are not fighters...
I'd post up a Jaguar, but it was ground attack aircraft not fighter.
Second in coolness has to be a Sea Harrier...
Also did they not bolt a gun on to hawks and call it a fighter?
While the Hawk was designed as a trainer, it could be fitted with weapons pods for training, which means it becomes a light attack fighter.
Technically, there was a modified version of the Mustang with a RR turbine engine called the Maverick, used in Vietnam as a ground attack fighter, so sort of jet-powered.
Actually the Cavalier Turbo Mustang III/ Enforcer, sold to Piper for development, it was used for counter-insurgency work. Super-cool aircraft, a few civilian examples around on the air show circuit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-48_Enforcer
Always had a bit of a soft spot for the F16XL delta version myself.
F15-E Strike Eagle
Fighter/Interdictor.
Fight your way in. Fight your way out.
Except it’s not really a fighter.
Lol! I recall an occasion in wales at low level where I’m in my humble Hawk, feeling chuffed that I’d ‘taken out’ a Tornado F3 (okay, I know that’s hardly impressive; my current airbus would out-turn the F3😂)...
I saw a glint as an F15 was manoeuvring on us, it’s turn-rate was staggering and it was clear we had no chance. I’d happily strap into an F15 against many other adversaries..... our little Hawk could turn well initially, but soon ran out of energy. This beast had the oomph to keep that unbelievable rate going all day long....until it ran out of fuel!
I have no idea why, but my favourite jet has always been the Phantom. I realise that it probably looks awfully ugly to everyone else, but I’ve always found it marvellous looking:
https://imgur.com/gallery/xevhA5X
Up there with coolest has to be this left-field beast...
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joshvegas
SubscriberSorry but are we all forgetting that sepecat jaguars had missiles ON TOP of the wings?
Thats school boy rule number one adding more weapons makes it cooler.
Also did they not bolt a gun on to hawks and call it a fighter?
Posted 2 hours ago
REPLY | REPORT
They still do......one of my current projects at work is certifying the integration of MBDA’s ASRAAM missile onto IAF Jaguars.....
A
I have no idea why, but my favourite jet has always been the Phantom. I realise that it probably looks awfully ugly to everyone else, but I’ve always found it marvellous looking:
The Phantom holds the Lands End - John O'Groats record of about 46 mins, set in the late 80's when you could batter a supersonic jet over land.
It was the gate aircraft at RAF Leuchars when it was retired from active service.
was alway more partial to the double delta draken
Tomcats always did it for me...
Lanky Royal Navy Phantom FTW
The MIG 15. It kicked the the Yanks out of Korea as they couldn't use their bombers. The Russian aces had over 20 kills.
👆 I hope chef had the bacon ready to toast...
My favourite plane of all time is the A10. It just looks right. How big of a pair of balls would you need to "loiter" in a battle field. BRAAP!!!
Of the more modern planes I really like the Gripen, it looks like a whole lot of fun to fly.
Loved Firefox as a kid, wasn't it based on the Mig25?
Great thread. I was brought up with the Lightning, Vulcan, Phantom and in particular harrier as my dad was an airframe technician in the RAF.
Sat in a few cockpits but never flew in anything, although air shows and close up on base viewings of aircraft was always a special treat as I grew up.
Not seen that lightning print before and quite taken by it. Have asked the author through the site linked above about getting one either on acrylic or backlit as I think it would look awesome if it is high enough resolution.
Not expecting it to be cheap and will post back with what I get if anybody is interested.
Jaguar for me, because I had a model plane of it. Not sure if I got it because I already liked the look of it, chicken and egg... My mum worked a bit on the procurement of it when she was in the MOD, but mostly I just like the high wing stance I think, and the raspberry ripple paint scheme
If anyone finds themselves near Salisbury and it manages to reopen then worth checking out the Boscombe Down Aviation museum. Can get hands on with quite a few aircraft and makes for a great few hours.
Having worked on them I'm a bit biased towards the Typhoon.
Seen what it can do in real life and even now it still blows me away the power and manoeuvrability of the thing.
Worked on Jags too so that's a close second.
I had an uncle who was Station Warrent Officer at various RAF bases in the late 70s through the 80s. Had many a happy holiday loitering in hangers and at the ends of runways at night. A particular favourite was Lightenings going off at midnight, full blat then vertical, also Phantoms, Jags and then Tornados. Sent an ATC summer camp riveting Jags back together and was rewarded with an experience flight in a Jag 2 seater, yes the Pilot did his job and I was sick!
Jaguar for me, because I had a model plane of it. Not sure if I got it because I already liked the look of it, chicken and egg… My mum worked a bit on the procurement of it when she was in the MOD, but mostly I just like the high wing stance I think, and the raspberry ripple paint scheme
It was probably the misiles ON TOP OF THE BLOODY WINGS
Useless fact: the only RAF Phantom ‘kill’ was… an RAF Jaguar.
I was working at Warton where they had the initial conversion unit for Typhoons entering service with the RAF. I was talking to a colleague who was programme lead to say that the CO of the ICU was doing his final flight in a Typhoon and it would be worth seeing that lunchtime. Normally protocol is to take off gently because of the close proximity of housing. Naah, he gave it full afterburners on reheat half way down the runway, stood it on his tail and shot straight up into the blue sky - the downwash set off all the car alarms in the car park. I'd watched the test pilots practise their airshow routines countless times, but this was just awesome.
Happened to be at Doncaster for a meeting and just by chance, they took the Vulcan out for what was the first flight of the final season.
Worked at Farnborough for a few years - office window overlooked the airfield and used to watch the practise flying for the airshow - Russion test pilots were awesome.
Two 'airshow' memories that I'll always remember as a kid:
Lightning stood on its tail after a takeoff at Manchester Airport (I guess he was staging for a local gig from there). Maybe I'd seen this loads of times at Finningley et al but I guess it was the novelty of it being at Manchester
Starfighter (German??) at RIAT in the 80's ripping a hole in the flightline with a sonic boom.
The Vulcan party trick of standing upright and flying straight up with the taps wide open ripped runways to shreds!
(Lived at Finningley!)
Vulcan memories here - my grandads house was the end of Waddington runway area and local playpark was on the other end...
I remember lying on the grass in the summer and not only being deafened by the noise but physically feeling like the earth was vibrating under me... *That* howl as well.
We also had an Italian(from memory?) Harrier put down in the farm fields behind our house in Cumbria, one day around easter 1990...Cue a few hours of RAF truck's coming and going and off he went again. Cool. As.
Being next to the only red roof building on the valley, we also know that the jets heading into Warcop ranges would use that to line up as they headed in. Sadly including the night of the Milburn Tornado crash, another sound that will stay with me. ☹️
Not exactly the best fight.
Got shot down from time to time but I like it ... SU-25 Frogfoot.
We also had an Italian(from memory?) Harrier put down in the farm fields behind our house in Cumbria, one day around easter 1990…Cue a few hours of RAF truck’s coming and going and off he went again. Cool. As.
Did you ever figure out where the Mediterranean looking kid in the village came from? 😉
Useless fact: the only RAF Phantom ‘kill’ was… an RAF Jaguar.
IIRC the only RAF Lightning kill was an RAF Harrier.
Hunter FTW IMO
A Viggen doing its thing.
Another Phantom...
Did you ever figure out where the Mediterranean looking kid in the village came from?
I was at school when it came down. Apparently he left the thing in the field and strolled over a fence into the hotel garden next door and ordered a coffee...
By contrast the RAF guards on scene when I got home were very twitchy and were shouting at my brother and I in the tree at the end of our garden...We were made to go indoors when it took off.
I have it very good authority, the Typhoo could have been an extraordinary aircraft - had they finished developing it properly. See Rafale for the finished version...
Typhoon for me, probably because I used to see them pretty much daily at work. I remember trying to cross the runway at Warton and the barrier coming down, next thing I knew there was this deafening roar and a Typhoon was taking off as it passed me. I was 19 and in a little Peugeot 106 and thinking it was going to be shook apart.
Last summer I had to chance to get up close and watch the first UK F35s on set off on deployment to Cyprus. They're an incredible looking machine up close, although much smaller than I thought it would be.
Russion test pilots were awesome.
These two seem pretty cool under pressure.
I'm fan of the Phantom, Viggen, Foxbat etc, but it has to be the Skyhawk.
They used to give the yanks the run around in war games by flying a lot lower than the yanks were comfortable with.
I used to work next to Woodburne airbase & they used to surprise us fly by's & touch & goes.
Though not half as surprising as an Orion doing a fly by.
but it has to be the Skyhawk.
One of Dad's US navy buddies has something daft like 5000 hours on the Skyhawk, and he will fight you to death to defend it...Fun Fact: The Skyhawk has such long undercarriage to clear the Nuclear bomb it was designed to carry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B43_nuclear_bomb
Also there was a member of each squadron of Skyhawks, whose job it was to practice the delivery method for the '43...so on each cruise there was some-one who could fly "the" mission
I also forgot - my wife's uncle Ray was Hunter pilot then a Hawker/BAE test & development pilot.
Not only had he the coolest job in the world, with stories of Tornado and Hawk development work, plus lots of testing of new kit on multiple machines, but owner of a splendid RAF moustache...
Spoke with the BBC Queens English, with finest plum in his throat. A lovely man and very shy of speaking of his career.
Sadly passed away a few years back.
Klunk also love the Draken, from Denmark so saw them a lot as a kid.
Couple of years ago I talked to a Danish pilot who had flown F-16 and Draken he missed the Draken as it was so nice to fly and so much power.
Sharkey Ward in Sea Harrier Over The Falklands recalls taking Harriers to "Top Gun" and giving the Yanks a beating - put it on a wing, point the nozzles down and turn inside anything else aloft... 🙂
Love Harrier, Lightning, Phantom, Eagle and Tomcat. 🙂
These two seem pretty cool under pressure.
Mig 29 arguably best jet fighter ever, lots made, very effective in air and cost wise.
The Paris 89 bird strike was another brilliant bit of piloting. I believe the pilot got a medal for managing to avoid the crowd using the remaining engine.
Seem to remember the theory that the explosion helped inflate his parachute, otherwise it would have been too low to stop his fall.
No idea how true.
Re flying Skyhawks...Steve Singleton ( My dad's buddy from the US Navy) used to tell how hard it was to land on the carriers, this being the early 60's there was nothing like the flying aids that Navy pilots have now, He learned to fly onto them even before the reflected lights system, literally hands on stick and throttle and VFR to the deck...Also because the US navy at the time had all these ex-ww2 carriers like USS Hancock that were pretty small by comparison to now, landing these things was a pretty nerve wracking ordeal.
Landing at night, on a rocking ship in bad weather with a B43 strapped to your belly...pretty bloody terrifying...