[Closed] summer rugby

Treat yourselves by looking at the last All Black try from yesterday, a thing a true beauty. Just sublime one of the best of all time I would say.

this is lovely
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The second try is good but the third one exceptional

not as good as this though:
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Zebo for all his attacking threat defends worse than Cuthbert at least Cuthbert will tackle players who run at him

You might want to watch Zebos first try against Wales in the 6N this year again!

I think the Lions could struggle against the Brumbies on Tues. they would also need to improve a lot before sat to stand a chance against Aus. The breakdown last night was terrible. Pluses were Youngs and the 2nd rows outstanding work rate and line outs. Youngs absolutely deserves the 2 shirt and I wonder if Gats is wishing POC was his captain?

Zebo played patticake with runners several times in yesterdays game and failed to catch a kick off, he also failed to take his try chance, good player like watching him play but he's not lions test material although neither is Cuthbert. Zebo's try v wales hardly disproves my assertion that Cuthbert will tackle people who run into him. No one was stupid enough to do that in that case. After Bowe and North the wing quality really drops off.

The breakdown last night was terrible.

would help if Heaslip and Croft spent less time fannying around on the wing and hit a few rucks. Warburton did a good job on Lions ball but really did lack support.

That's not what happened though is it? Heaslip stood off too much, warbs was simply outplayed.

At least Bowe should be back for the second test. I don't think any if the back row were that great last night. AWJ and POC on the other hand were magnificent.

How was Warburton outplayed? I really don't see it.

He was a lot better than his previous game, but the waratahs had done their homework and largely nullified him IMHO. Croft worked his bollocks off and POC was simply immense. Only 1 tackle less than warbs! That's some going for a man of that size. I'm very pleased that AWJ came good. He has to be the starter alongside POC. Wavering about heaslip now, perhaps Toby is the answer.

He was a lot better than his previous game, but the waratahs had done their homework and largely nullified him IMHO.

nullified what exactly?

Croft seemed to be doing a decent amount of work to me? I really didn't think that the pack looked too bad though! Turned over a few too many times I agree, but thought that it was good other than that.

Well, they beat him to the breakdown and turned ball over. If they didnt beat him there on their attacking ball, he was taken off his feet pretty sharpish so that he couldn't do much damage.

would help if Heaslip and Croft spent less time fannying around on the wing and hit a few rucks. Warburton did a good job on Lions ball but really did lack support.

That's not really the case. Croft and Heaslip both made more runs, made more metres, offloaded more and hit more rucks than Warbs.

But that's not possible, they're not welsh!

Actually AA, joking aside, you really like your 6/7/8 to be on the floor with everything trying to wrestle the ball back, biting a gouging perfectly fine as long as you're undernearh... so any player in that position who runs with the ball is going to cop some flack from you.

I like them a but more rounded, although I think Croft is too much of a back, his talent means you just have to put him in somewhere. There aren't many forwards who can turn a game on its head, but he's one of them.

Would have been hard for warburton to win turnovers on their ball given the amount of tackling he did. If you want a 7 to turnover ball you need to not have him tackling. Its a often used tactic against Pocock, run at him all day and he cant turn over ball.
Blind melon if you think heaslip and croft hit more rucks than warburton you need to open yor eyes. Heaslip certainly missed more tackles.

Given the way Croft plays and he played well Warburton had to do a lot of the donkey work. Heaslip was rubbish.

Link to match stats

http://www.smh.com.au/match-centre/rugby-union/match-4930007.html

A good 7 makes the tackle gets on feet and makes the turnover. Personally I would like to see Tip at 7 and SOB at 6 I just don't think Warb is playing well enough to start.

Personally I would like to see Tip at 7 and SOB at 6

So would I but with Croft apparently nailed on Tips would lack the grunt to do what Warbs did Saturday. With Croft and Lydiate being polar opposites it highlights the lack of Ferris who could be somewhere in between.

The Rugby paper gave Warbs an 8 and also said Heaslip was a bit lacking. I havent seen it so am giving second hand views.

I have seen that third All Black try Lordy Lordy Lordy just amazing.

Yeah I agree with that. Pity Fez has been very injury prone recently

Warbs did well, maybe not an 8 but he worked very hard and was a getting in the way a lot on their ball. Still reckon another game would be ideal. Heaslip did nothing until Croft went off. I think given Faletau starting on tuesaday they are stuck with heaslip.

How do you rate Michael Broadhurst as a flanker?
Played pretty well, imo.

North 50/50, Roberts and Bowe very doubtful.
What do we reckon; Cuthbert & Zebo?
I think that they must take advantage of Davies' form with Manu on the bench.

I think it will be Cuthbert and Maitland, as the Cuthbert/Zebo combo is too weak defensively.

I would rather see North given the extra week and be properly fit for the 2nd test than play him at less than 100% and risk losing him for the rest of the tour since they cant lose the series after the first test.

Has to be Davies and BOD at 12, 13 with Manu on the bench if fit. Davies has been the stand-out centre for me.

Isn't it a 3 test series?

Yes 3 tests.

So if you lose the first test you can win the 2nd and 3rd and the series overall

if you lose the first test you can win the 2nd and 3rd and the series overall

True but if the Lions lose the first test then winning the series is unlikely. I think only the '89 Lions have achieved that. (In modern times anyway.)

The first test is the best chance for a win. The Aussies haven't played for a while so will, hopefully, be a little rusty. As the series goes on their long term squad familiarity and developed playing style should give them the advantage over the scratch side.

I still fear the Lions are a bit untested and will pay the price for some meaningless run-outs at the start of the tour.

Interesting game.
Warburton was a fair bit better than in his previous game. Can see how that last run out was well needed for his match fitness. Still operating at a level below his best, and below the other two Sevens on tour though.
Croft was fairly good. His try was his high point but he also showed a decent work-rate and skills. Heaslip was good enough too, but slack in letting that ball out the back. He's enough experience to know he needs to up his concentration for the tests.
AWJ was really excellent this time. Him and POC (excellent too) made the jobs so much easier for the back rowers. Youngs and Mako helped significantly there too. Still feel Hibbard offers a bit more going forward tight in around the fringes, and controlling and breaking off rolling mauls, but Youngs' lineout throwing is probabbly gonna win him the spot.
Which means we probably need to keep Adam Jones in the starting 15 to keep the scrum on top. Apart from scrums, he didn't do much. Almost coasted a bit this game. Expect a bit more in the tests, 'cos Cole's playing better in the loose.
But if he really wants to dominate Ozzy scrums, gatland should have brought in Sheridan when the others got injured.

In the backs, 10-12-13 was really working with JS, JD and JR going really well 'till the injury. JD pick of the backs in this game but all three impressed. At 9 Phillips isn't gonna improve his passing now, but has to play better than this in the tests. He's not done anything to earn the spot over Murray or Youngs, who've both played better, and they help Sexton play better (flatter) too.
Halfpee was great too: he's looking like he's worked hard and added a bit of nous to his attacking running. Top player, but still improving too.
Wing's are a bit more of a concern 'cos North and Bowe were so obviously ahead of the the rest. Maitland and Zebo both looked a little fragile in defence, but it may have been a lack of application more than a lack of skill (Cuthbert). Not seen a lot of it in the warm ups, probably deliberately held back for the tests TBH, but I expect the Wallabies to land quite a few high balls on our wingers. Maitland and Zebo can both get up and take them -both can play 15. We've all seen what happens when they target Cuthbert.

Seems a bit unfair on Hogg to not give him a chance to stake a claim in the back three. 1/2pee plays wing well and could switch , or maybe Hogg could do too. Seems like he's missing his chance to cover these injuries 'cos he's too busy covering the other holes in the squad selection.

I'm very surprised AA hasn't put a link up for Adam playing scrum half. He will however be facing a bigger fine for the dummy kick through. Either that or he was thinking of the fine, so changed his mind just before he pulled the trigger.

One more thing,
why isn't Lydiate getting more game time?
Of all the players, he looks like he needs it for his sharpness and match fitness. But it seems like he's being held back.
It's working , to an extent, with Warburton. He is improving and playing himself back into a bit more form and fitness.
Is Lydiate carrying an injury or something that stopping him getting the minutes he needs?

Sorry I misread your post about the test series 😳

I think Lydiate is behind Croft but next on the list for 6 so given Gatland wanted to run out his test starters and keep the tuesdat team fresh too lydiate has fallen through the gaps. Mind you if you think Murray and Youngs have played better than Phillips you are nuts!

I've watched the games. Have you?

Murray and Youngs have played better than Phillips you are nuts!

pure passing speed maybe, kicking no, organisation no, defence not even close, attacking threat no, being a nasty horrible **** who these days does the winding up rather than being wound up no and all round being the player to take into big matches no. Phillips is a lot, lot better than many on here give him credit for. Him and Adam are Wales best and most important players.
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I've watched the games. Have you?

yep, I seeem to recall Phillips being man of the match in one of them. Youngs improved off the bench this week but was clueless the game before that and Murray has done a good job of being Phillips lite but is nowhere near as good as him as yet. Murray is the second best 9 but as Youngs offers something different I think Youngs will bench for the tests.

That clip is why I like phillips so much. We need a few more with that abrasive attitude. I certainly don't under rate him (Although Youngs has a better box kick and pass). Like I (and you) said, Phillips offers a lot more than a traditional SH.
Hamilton got binned for pretty much the same hit as that in the SA game....

That's a cracking clip. I'd be sodding furious if someone I'd tried to belt smirked and blew me a kiss!

I'll be honest, I don't haven't watched Phillips much, but as he's big, he'll get the nod over the others. Youngs over Murray though (have brothers played for the Lions before?)

Definitely Youngs over Murray. No way does Phillips have a better kicking game than him.

haven't watched Phillips much, but as he's big, he'll get the nod over the others

There is a bit more to it than that. He is a real threat with the ball and as a result other teams have to watch him, he will draw there 10 in a bit to cover knowing he can and will run through any gap between forwards, 9 and 10. Sexton may not get the passes just where he wants them but his opposite number may have been drawn in an extra couple of feet because of the running threat and they will be guessing all game and that can make all the difference.

Nice clip.
But it's one thing winding up a journeyman 9, and another getting the better of Genia. How's that gone for Phillips so far?

And whatever strengths you think he has, it doesn't change the fact he's in the test side on reputation not performance on tour.

So the mom performance doesnt count for you because?
I love the fact that I get accused of being one eyed when you come out with such rubbish.
The fact that Genia is better than him and aus are better are hardly of much importance given that he is easily the best 9 available. After Sexton and 1/2p he'll be next on the teamsheet.

Anyway seeing as you are so sure of yourself what would your team be?

Baa baa's exhibition match wasn't it?
It's always a back gets MOM in those.
His MOM comes from our other backs not having enough ball to shine themselves.
Any one of them could have won MOM with more ball.
How do you reckon 10-15 can shine when 9 can't pass?