[Closed] Sky contract up - Kodi worth considering?

I'm not a fan of Kodi, it's not really legit - it's not illegal, not totally legal - either way you're in a game of cat and mouse with the people who spend the millions to create the content and at some point it's going to be made permanently illegal. I’m told the quality is shocking too sometimes.

I'm personally going over to NowTV, it's streamed rather than broadcast so you don't need to record anything, it's on demand. They say you need 2meg for SD, 4 for HD and my current 4meg connection supports that, but add a YouTube / Insta obsessed 11-year-old into the mix and I need a lot more than that.

£6 a month on DD gets you all the premium TV you need; Sports is another £7 a month - but there are lots of ways to buy passes for less.

I like the look of Now tv, just been on their website. However it looks like sky sports is £7 a day rather than per month or have I read that wrong? Looks great otherwise though.

You might be right there, £22 a month is another option - seems crazy to me, but then TV Sports rights and consumer costs are insane to me - I guess you've got to keep the premier league in Ivory Bentleys some how.

Got kodi. Got rid of sky over a year ago. Got it on two fire sticks. Easy to install just using guides online. Wouldn't go back now unless it became impossible /completely illegal.

Theres a nice side loaded version of Kodi now for the new Apple TV - looks really good.

Out of interest, how much does it cost initially to set Kodi up? Do you have to have a firestick to make it work?

As above, Kodi is dubious legally but maybe more to the point if you like sports is that the streams (the ones I've seen anyway) are pretty shoddy quality, nowhere near broadcast and miles off HD quality. Maybe regular users are privy to some in HD but I've never seen one. Kodi is easy and [s]cheap[/s] free to try though, just set it up on whatever device (phone, laptop, tablet) you have around and see what you think.
Sport on Now TV isn't cheap, >£30 permonth I believe. If you're willing to switch BB provider BT and Talk Talk have some sports packages with their Youview but sadly, if you're a sports fan there's nobody to touch Sky. IMO

All you need is a firestick then there's plenty of tutorials on YouTube to install kodi.

I never use mine for live sport etc as I find it pretty rubbish for that. But tv shows, films etc it's brilliant. We rarely watch normal tv now. Sometimes the streams are crap if the film is out at the cinema but if it's out on DVD you will always get 720 / 1080p quality.

In what way is Kodi (or Openelec) dubious legally or not legit?

Some of the addons might have potential to be not legit. But Kodi itself I see no issue with whatsoever.

Youtube app on mine seems to be permanently broken, wants to re-auth pretty much every time I use it, forgets my own personal keys and puts back the default keys that always exceed the allowed daily usage. Maybe I just need to make it never update? Plus Youtube changed their API afaict, and removed the most useful features.

Southpark app works perfectly. Red Bull TV app works perfectly. Don't use it for anything else. iPlayer i'd need to hack probably to go thru my VPS back in the UK, but I CBA.

I have it (Openelec version) on a Raspberry Pi2, and the quality seems perfectly fine.

edit: and I was impressed that the TV remote passthrough via HDMI HDCP works out of the box with a Pi too.

I'm not a fan of Kodi, it's not really legit - it's not illegal, not totally legal

As Andy says, Kodi is perfectly legit and legal. It's the third-party add-ons that can be dodgy.

Kodi itself isn't illegal or dodgy in any way, it's the ones that are Fully Loaded' and allow you to watch stuff that would otherwise be behind a paywall/not on general release that is the contentious bit. The guy behind Kodi is trying to distance himself from the dodgy ones. I won't touch one either because of this despite everyone in work using them and trying to get me to use one too. I'm happy to pay for what I want to watch, which is BBC, Freeview and Amazon Prime/LoveFilm. The only thing I miss is F1 but I go to my parent's house to watch that.

There is a legal challenge to get the Kodi loophole closed ongoing at the moment, something about it not being illegal to watch a 3rd party stream rather than bypassing security protocols. Be interesting to see how that is resolved.

* beaten by a mod while typing 😳

All the streams I've tried used for Kodi either don't work or they stop working after 1/2 an hour.
As Liverpool aren't in Europe this year it saves me having to faff about trying to find a working stream.

As Andy says, Kodi is perfectly legit and legal. It's the third-party add-ons that can be dodgy.

As mentioned above, Never watch sports on mine. All the new US TV shows are available as soon as they air and in HD. New films (as with TV shows through the Exodus addon) tend to come on quick but quality is crap. Get good quality streams a few weeks later. Kids love it as they have all the simpsons and spongebob episodes at their fingertips.

In what way is Kodi (or Openelec) dubious legally or not legit?

As Andy says, Kodi is perfectly legit and legal. It's the third-party add-ons that can be dodgy.

Kodi itself isn't illegal or dodgy in any way

You're all absolutely right, I put that carelessly. Kodi itself is a nice piece of software and it's very good with your own media library, a bit of youtubing and whatever. However, for the OP to get sports as a substitute for a Sky subscription he'd have to be heading for the greyer areas of third party add-ons to access re-broadcast streams.

Just spoke to Sky and they have reduced my packageprice from £92 a month to £53 just by getting rid of movies and getting a discount as I am out of contract. I can still cancel my contract in the next 31 days though so still considering Now TV. Still can't totally get my head around how it works though.

Try Kodi on your laptop or Android phone/tablet. See how you get on with it and maybe you could cast the program over to your tv using a chromecast.

As per what's already been said, I'll leave this here. Again.

[b]The Piracy Box Sellers and Youtube Promoters Are Killing Kodi[/b]

Over the past few years it’s become clear that many users have been watching pirated content using unofficial and unsupported add-ons that frequently break, and they are installing add-on repositories whose trustworthiness is questionable, leaving themselves open to numerous security exploits. Lately there’s even been a move to install “builds,” which intentionally break Kodi and, much like viruses, are almost impossible to uninstall, but have the benefit of adding LOTS of untrustworthy repos full of add-ons that don’t work.

Team Kodi maintains an officially neutral stance on what users do with their own software. Kodi is open source software, and as long as the GPL is followed, you are welcome to do with it as you like. So while we don’t love this use of Kodi, as long as you know what illegal and potentially dangerous things you are getting yourself into and accept the fact that the Team will not be providing you with any support, then you are welcome to do what you like.

[b]The Problem[/b]
The problem is this: There have been a wave of sellers who decided to make a quick buck modifying Kodi, installing broken piracy add-ons, advertising that Kodi let’s you watch free movies and TV, and then vanishing when the user buys the box and finds out that the add-on they were sold on was a crummy, constantly breaking mess. These sellers are dragging users into the world of piracy without their knowledge and at the same time convincing new users that Kodi is a buggy mess, because they never differentiate Kodi from 3rd party add-ons. Every day a new user shows up on the Kodi forum, totally unaware that the free movies they’re watching have been pirated and surprised to discover that Kodi itself isn’t providing those movies.

And there are even more people out there seeking to make a quick buck by selling ads on videos about getting free movies and TV while using Kodi in their channel name to make their content seem official, as if those videos are coming from us.

[img] [/img]

2016-02-12
A Typical eBay Listing – They even spell XBMC wrong

Team Kodi is officially tired of this. We are tired of new users coming into the forum, asking why the box that “we” sold them was broken. We are tired of this endless campaign by dishonest salesmen to push a single use of Kodi that nobody on the team actually recommends. We are tired of these salesmen lying to users, claiming that pirate streams and pirate boxes are “legal” when they are absolutely not at some level or other. We are tired of being told by companies that they don’t want to work with us, because we are selling pirate boxes. Being removed from an App Store this summer because of the campaigning of others was like a slap in the face. Most of all, we are tired of a thousand different salesmen and Youtubers making money off ruining our name.

It’s gotten bad enough that core Kodi developers have threatened to quit in protest.

[b]The Solution[/b]
Our solution to this problem is pretty straightforward. We now own the trademark to Kodi, and we plan to use it to finally battle the mass confusion created by those seeking to profit on unaware users.

This means we will issue trademark takedown notices anywhere we think the likelihood for confusion is high. If you are selling a box on your website designed to trick users into thinking broken add-ons come from us and work perfectly, so you can make a buck, we’re going to do everything we can to stop you. If you are making a video in which you claim to be a Kodi developer or Kodi team member or you are just using the Kodi name while assuring users that some pirate add-on is totally legal and isn’t going to break next week, we will do everything we can to take you down.

[b]We Need The Community’s Help[/b]
Users, you are welcome to keep doing whatever you want with Kodi. Devs of all stripes, feel free to keep developing whatever you want. This is an open, free platform, developed under the GPL, and always will be.

But we are in danger now of losing key core developers and the soul of the application to the greedy individuals who profit on tricking users and remarketing Kodi to suit their needs. And we need the community’s help to stop them.

If you see somebody selling a box that’s “fully loaded” or comes with the phrase “Free movies and TV with Kodi,” please, ask them to stop. And let us know. It’s OK to sell a vanilla Kodi box. It’s OK to sell a fully loaded box that doesn’t have Kodi installed or fully rebrands Kodi to something else entirely. It is not OK to sell a fully loaded Kodi box.

If you see a Youtuber using the Kodi logo as part of his channel, constantly marketing Kodi as a source of free movies, ask him to stop pretending to be us and dragging our name through the muck. And, of course, let us know. Who knows, maybe the Youtuber has no idea that he or she is causing so many problems and a conversation might solve them.

We love making Kodi. We love working on a free, open source software that’s the best media center on the planet, able to do things no other media center can do. And we want to keep making Kodi better, every single day. But every day our name gets dragged through the mud, we are in danger of losing developers and losing the freedom to make Kodi great.

We want to make Kodi for as long as there ever is a need. Help us keep going. #KodiForever

If you go through with the Sky cancellation you will be inundated with offers from them after a few months. The longer you hold out, the better the offers get. You can keep all the kit and the boxes work fine as free view in the meantime. You can usually pick up a nowtv box with deals on entertainment and sport packages at reduced prices pretty easily as well if you miss the sky channels.

As bear says just try Kodi on your computer - imo its not so good for live tv streaming esp Sports better at content like movies and boxsets

If you want to watch pirated content then go for it.
However for the Sky money what does Netflix & Amazon Prime give you?

Simple rules (arguing on technicalities is pointless)
If you are watching content that you should be paying for without paying for it it's piracy.

As bear says just try Kodi on your computer - imo its not so good for live tv streaming esp Sports better at content like movies and boxsets

Kodi (can't even remember the plugin name)works fine for me. It's a shame really that it's my goto solution to watch TV even when I had Amazon and Netflix, they simply didn't have the same choice.
Streaming live Moto GP was barely passable though, very low resolution.
It's best for films and box sets as already mentioned.
On a raspberry pi as the cec pass thru works as treat, no need for another remote.

Edit the plugin might be exodus.

So Kodi's stance is.

Carry just don't tell anyone.

Roku seems like a better, legal option.

were moving house soon, certainly wont be taking sky with us. they rang me up recently & tried to flog me some extra packages on an excellent deal due to my long and valued custom. told the lady i couldnt remember the last time we watched owt on sky that wasnt on either terrestrial or Netflix or available on Kodi! I asked her to cancel it all but it wasnt her department surprise surprise. she put me through but i gave up after 10 mins of holding...

[quote=Drac ]So Kodi's stance is.
Carry just don't tell anyone.

No, Kodi's stance is that it's nothing to do with them. They make a media centre which will play anything. The legality of the media is down to the user. It's not Sony's fault if I use one of their radios to listen to a pirate station.

No, Kodi's stance is that it's nothing to do with them. They make a media centre which will play anything. The legality of the media is down to the user. It's not Sony's fault if I use one of their radios to listen to a pirate station.

Shhhh! They've asked not to tell anyone.

Drac,
No, they've asked people to let them know when their trademark is being abused and to help pass on the information that the kodi team is not responsible if people get shafted by paying for add ons which initially provide illegal services and then stop working.

Maybe they should ask all of the illegal add on makers to call their add ons by names like "naughty1" and then they could block them more easily?

Any useful suggestions?

The Kodi situation shows me the only way forward is free delivery and revenue via advertising

The Kodi situation shows me the only way forward is free delivery and revenue via advertising

Not sure about that all.

I think the Netflix model (and to a lesser extent the Amazon model) is the best thing to happen to film/tv production in years.

They push quality programming into home with very high standards (4K origination etc). Sure they lag in latest movie content but Amazon and Play has that if you don't go to the cinema.

God help us for the all the cheapskates that freeload indirectly via Kodi. This sort of thing will kill standards, output and quality over time. All the people I know using Kodi derived set-ups are using it illicitly - getting something for nothing.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof that streaming and downloading is illegal.

rone - Member
God help us for the all the cheapskates that freeload indirectly via Kodi. This sort of thing will kill standards, output and quality over time.

It really won't.

If it couldn't get it for nothing I wouldn't pay for it. I don't use prostitutes! 😆 I'm not and never will be part of their "market".

the market will always be there. tv/movie companies just need to figure out how best to exploit that. netflix has the right idea. They just need better content, which they are addressing with creating their own, admittedly. Holywood and movie makers are miles behind the curve.

jambalaya - Member
The Kodi situation shows me the only way forward is free delivery and revenue via advertising

If they want to make something out of people that otherwise wouldn't buy their product aye. But they still have a core market willing to part with silly amounts of cash. I guess that's their conundrum.

The studios are cottoning on now though. A number of films which wouldn't get a big cinema audience, and therefore not justify major release, are getting dual release on Netflix/Curzon etc., to reach a wider audience. Blockbusters are what drives the numbers and they will always be solely major theatre releases.

On Kodi and the 3rd party streams, it works a treat for me and with super fast BB, I could ditch SKY, get Amazon/Netflix and a Fire TV and Fire Stick, sideload Kodi and supplement my content to great effect. Live football is hit n miss if it's a world wide watch game like Liverpool v Man U. However, I have BT sport in my BB package and can buy a pass from now tv if I really needed to - or go to the pub

God help us for the all the cheapskates that freeload indirectly via Kodi. This sort of thing will kill standards, output and quality over time. All the people I know using Kodi derived set-ups are using it illicitly - getting something for nothing.

Just like VHS did.

Just like VHS did.

Elaborate a little as I haven't got your line of thought.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof that streaming and downloading is illegal.

Streaming and downloading is not illegal. I think you mean something else.

If it couldn't get it for nothing I wouldn't pay for it.

That sounds alarmingly like theft to me.

It's strange - I have some very good friends who are on decent wages and don't want to pay for their entertainment consumption; music and video streams etc. And the funny thing is they would never steal from Sainsburys by way of example.

I'm not saying I'm whiter than white certainly but I do pay for my music, films and software etc. Streaming music and films is a relatively cheap - hassle free form of entertainment - I don't see the fuss.

To be getting 4K and nearly blu-ray levels of quality in the home from a few suppliers has got to be worth supporting - if you're into your movies/tv. No?

I am more than happy to pay for content but lots of it is just not avalaible or is redicoulsly expensive. Often it is cheaper to buy the film from Amazon as a blue ray than rent it. With Kodi anything recent that is still in the cinemas is terrible quality and just not watchable. Normally a recording from someone in a cinema. Once it's out on DVD for download then the quality is great apart from buffering issues.

If the films and programmes were avalaible at a reasonable price i.e. not £5 to rent an old film then I would drop Kodi. straight away.

rone - Member
I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof that streaming and downloading is illegal.
Streaming and downloading is not illegal. I think you mean something else.

Nope, that's what I ment.

rone - Member
If it couldn't get it for nothing I wouldn't pay for it.
That sounds alarmingly like theft to me.

It's strange - I have some very good friends who are on decent wages and don't want to pay for their entertainment consumption; music and video streams etc. And the funny thing is they would never steal from Sainsburys by way of example.

I'm not saying I'm whiter than white certainly but I do pay for my music, films and software etc. Streaming music and films is a relatively cheap - hassle free form of entertainment - I don't see the fuss.

To be getting 4K and nearly blu-ray levels of quality in the home from a few suppliers has got to be worth supporting - if you're into your movies/tv. No?

Call it what you like, I don't see it as theft, just free content..

I pay for music and kindle books as I see value in them, and would pay for them, tv shows and films? Nah, I'd just watch less.

To be getting 4K and nearly blu-ray levels of quality in the home from a few suppliers has got to be worth supporting - if you're into your movies/tv. No?

I've no interest in the slightest in 4k tbh. don't really see the point.

Nope, that's what I ment.

You are asking someone to show you proof that streaming and downloading is illegal without any context of that process?

I'm missing something.

rone - Member
Nope, that's what I ment.
You are asking someone to show you proof that streaming and downloading is illegal without any context of that process?

What more detail do you need? I'd have thought context obvious.

I've no interest in the slightest in 4k tbh. don't really see the point.

That's fine. It's usually the people that don't want to pay that have no interested in things being better quality. Which is why you have a choice. You can have SD if you want?

However none of this gives you the right to take things without permission.

I will be round to yours tonight to get some of your free content.

Elaborate a little as I haven't got your line of thought.

Pirate videos were going to end the movie industry as no one would pay anymore and quality didn't matter.

What more detail do you need? I'd have thought context obvious.

Not at all.

We all know Streaming and Downloading are transport mechanisms and can't be considered illegal or legal or whatever without context.

So it doesn't make any sense.

Do you mean S/D without permission - with permission? Purchased stuff, pirated stuff, your own stuff? Iplayer? GoldenMP3? Netflix? What do you mean?

Pirate videos were going to end the movie industry as no one would pay anymore and quality didn't matter.

I'm sure it affected revenue. No doubt about it.

1080p is just fine, thank you.

rone - Member
What more detail do you need? I'd have thought context obvious.
Not at all.

We all know Streaming and Downloading are transport mechanisms and can't be considered illegal or legal or whatever without context.

So it doesn't make any sense.

Do you mean S/D without permission - with permission? Purchased stuff, pirated stuff, your own stuff? Iplayer? GoldenMP3? Netflix? What do you mean?

You're being a bit overly anal here are you not?

I'll leave you to figure it out. It's not particularly difficult if you try.

You're being a bit overly anal here are you not?

I'll leave you to figure it out. It's not particularly difficult if you try

No, you're being vague.

I'm asking you to make a distinction between 'Downloading and Streaming' and 'Downloading and Streaming material without the owners permission'. As the difference is massive.

When you come on here asking for someone to prove something is illegal - without the correct context - I would've thought that you were conversant in your statement. I thought it was worth challenging.

jebus. I'm oot! 😆 I'd have thought it blinking obvious, I ment without permission, given the content of the thread.

seosamh77 - Member
I'm still waiting for someone to show me proof that streaming and downloading is illegal.

mikewsmith - Member
Try immoral or the law is catching up. Defending via technicalities is lame though, why do you deserve free content?

Because I can. I've given that answer before, many time.

Whether you think that is immoral, up to yourself. I don't think it is.

Morality is open to interpretation. Neither does law = morality.

You are obtaining something that has been pirated, the content you are watching is being provided via means that breach the copyright of that material, the delivery mechanism allows for ambiguity in the law. Like going down the out of calibration speed camera when you knew you were speeding etc. If it was made an offence tomorrow would it stop you? Or just take away your defense?
So how should the content maker be paid and pay their staff in your model? The advertising model leads us to itv really which isn't somethwto aspire to.

He doesn't make any sense. He asking for proof of something that is not illegal in itself. He didn't provide any context as to what he was downloading/streaming.

What he means if downloading/stream without permission. Which can be. No shadow of a doubt.

I don't think he understands the technicalities.

If a site that you get the download from isn't authorised by the copyright owners. It's illegal. End of.

("makes available or facilitates the availability” of rights-owners’ content without their permission is unlawful.)

The advertising model leads us to itv really which isn't somethwto aspire to.

Exactly. Worse than being shot.

Simple fact is that the online world and saturated media has devalued content, it's not worth what it once was. So trying to cling to these models is futile.

Supply and demand.

rone - Member
If a site that you get the download from isn't authorised by the copyright owners. It's illegal. End of.

Yip, I agree with that statement 100%.

I'm pretty certain it's you that doesn't understand the technicalities.

Still doesn't prove what I'm doing is illegal.

Simple fact is that the online world and saturated media has devalued content, it's not worth what it once was.

Supply and demand.

You're talking about the black market though.

Clearly there is a market in the general sense of the world otherwise Netflix et al wouldn't be expanding in the way they do.

It's funny, back in VHS times I would've agreed to an extent as the quality was shit - but now it's fantastic and worth paying for.

I'm pretty certain it's you that doesn't understand the technicalities.

Okay I will give you a clue. I work in these realms.

We deal with licensing most days.

Let's leave it at that.

Still doesn't prove what I'm doing is illegal.

What are you doing though? We don't know.

crack on, pay for both of us all you like! 😆

rone - Member
Still doesn't prove what I'm doing is illegal.
What are you doing though? We don't know.

Are you being deliberately dim?

I'm downloading/streaming(well streaming, I gave up downloading years ago) from illegal sites. It's the sites that are illegal, not what i'm doing. It's not illegal to use illegal sites.

rone - Member

Okay I will give you a clue. I work in these realms.

I never guessed that at all, not in a million years! 😆

I'm downloading/streams from illegal sites. It's the sites that are illegal, not what i'm doing. It's not illegal to use illegal sites.

You're confused. The only defense you have is the likes have FACT have chosen not to target you.

There is currently grey area of Streaming, but you said downloading. That infringes copyright law.

Which is why I asked you to give context.

I haven't felt the need to be personal at all which shows the lack of grasp you have on the subject.

rone - Member
You're confused. The only defense you have is the likes have FACT have chosen not to target you.

Chosen is one way of putting it. Unworkable and [I have a potty mouth], of dubious legality, they don't want to get into is another.

Downloading/streaming, in the illegal context is the same thing more or less. You're still transmitting the same file to your computer the way it works. It just doesn't live on you computer once you've stopped watching.

But it makes all the difference in the this debate.

Streaming (let's assume we're talking about unauthorised content) is considered temporary, that's the only technical issue here. And that is really grabbing at straws.

You grouped them together from the off - which is why I asked you to give context -right from the off.

rone - Member
I haven't felt the need to be personal.

I haven't got personal at all, you're being deliberately obtuse. The question was warranted.

rone - Member
But it makes all the difference in the this debate.

Streaming is considered temporary, that's the only technical issue here.

You grouped them together from the off - which is why I asked you to give context,right from the off.

It's an irrelevant distinction. but you crack on. It's no wonder you struggle to solve the problem.

A "friend" might have a box connected to sky dish and internet , full sky package including ability to record 2 channels £75 a year and box costs £100 just look on facebook, never buffers including the box office boxing etc

I haven't got personal at all, you're being deliberately obtuse. The question was warranted.

You called me dim?

I'm not being obtuse - I'm highlighting the blasé nature you walked into this and got things wrapped around your keyboard because you'd clearly read something on a web-page once and factually passed off streaming/downloading as the same thing and, asked others to express legality on something you poorly defined.

Do you think law is obtuse?

It's an irrelevant distinction

No it's not. Tangibly and legally.

You are wrong.

When you download you are creating a copy.

rone - Member
I haven't got personal at all, you're being deliberately obtuse. The question was warranted.
You called me dim?

I'm not being obtuse - I'm highlighting the blasé nature you walked into this and got things wrapped around your keyboard because you'd clearly read something on a web-page once and factually passed of streaming/downloading as the same thing and, asked others to express legality on something you poorly defined.

Do you think law is obtuse?

Interesting thread becomes tedious.
What a surprise. 🙄

rone - Member
When you download you are creating a copy.

And the same thing is true if you stream, however temporary. I'll let you argue out that in your offices. I disagree we'll leave it at that. It's a silly line of questioning.

It's an irrelevant distinction. but you crack on. It's no wonder you struggle to solve the problem.

EDIT: although if you're just trolling, well played!! 🙂
[img] [/img]

I understand the technicalities of a file transfer, which you or the law don't seem to.

the files you stream and the files you download are the same thing. Ergo there is no difference.

Really?

No difference, at all?