Forum menu
Sir! Keir! Starmer!
 

Sir! Keir! Starmer!

Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

At least in pro-zionist Jewish publications.

It should never be forgotten that some of the world's most outspoken critics of Israel are Jews.


 
Posted : 16/05/2021 11:26 am
 DrJ
Posts: 13968
Full Member
 

It should never be forgotten that some of the world’s most outspoken critics of Israel are Jews.

True, but at the same time, Israel is a democracy so one must assume that the brutal occupation has general support of the public there.


 
Posted : 16/05/2021 12:52 pm
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

From the vox pops on the news most of the inhabitants of Israel seem to have just relocated there from New York or Florida


 
Posted : 16/05/2021 2:04 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I think Baby-Boomers, with their legacy of hard won freedoms and civil rights resent being lectured at by people that they think should perhaps hold them in higher regard.

But they didn't win any of that, their parents did. They were the golden generation, they had the jobs for life, the pensions, the property, access to the social state. That would breed a degree of selfishness, so then they proceeded to p*ss it down the toilet for the generations that followed when they voted for thatcher in 1979, and they got the added benefits of tax cuts, increased property prices etc.

And finally, alot of them voted for Brexit, Like my father did. Boomers are the sh*t generation.


 
Posted : 16/05/2021 4:02 pm
Posts: 12653
Free Member
 

Lucky you Kerley. She used to be everywhere all the time… TV, radio, press

Now I have looked her up I realise I am aware of her I just didn't recognise the name.


 
Posted : 16/05/2021 6:24 pm
 rone
Posts: 9783
Free Member
 

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1396057366265843721?s=19

State of this. Starmer achieved this with an easy ride from the papers too.

In Labour's defence I do think things might start to fall apart *soon for the Tories - when we get back to market economies and continue the trajectory downwards as per before the pandemic.

However, Labour are in a terrible place now and are showing no signs of capitalising on anything.

There's a short-term uptick in inflation (still downward long term) but it illustrates massive supply issues of consumer products. That will bite hard eventually.

*Don't know how soon is though!


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 2:17 pm
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

The gap will widen further still, once the June restrictions are lifted (even if they get delayed for a few weeks) and the vast majority of the adult population are vaccinated (ahead of neighbouring countries). I have no answer to that… and I’m unsurprised that Starmer doesn’t either… I’m just preparing for it. Johnson may well be able to boast of a few 50% poll results over the summer, and then the knives will really be out (and not just for Starmer) in the Labour Party. Johnson’s most effective attacks on the opposition are along the line of, “Labour are sniping from the sidelines, while we get on with things”. It’s very effective, because a lot of voters do repeat the “Labour aren’t making a difference to our lives” line.


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 2:33 pm
Posts: 34496
Full Member
 

Yup I could see Johnson just peaking at 50% as we open up fully

Can't see there's anything Starmer can do about it either

Will be autumn before Starmer has a hope of regaining some momentum (unless Johnson fks up massively between now & then)


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 2:39 pm
Posts: 7128
Free Member
 

The biggest racists I know are zionists, they seem to encourage racist attitudes as that justifies apartheid and ethnic cleansing, 'We're only like everyone else'. Seeing Palestinian flags hanging out of cars would suggest to me that Starmey Archer (is that any better?) is on to another vote loser.


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 3:07 pm
Posts: 7128
Free Member
 

And there you have it:
Britain Elects
@BritainElects
· 6h
Westminster voting intention:

CON: 46% (+1)
LAB: 28% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (+1)
GRN: 8% (-)
REFUK: 2% (-)


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 7:01 pm
Posts: 31075
Free Member
 

The biggest racists I know are zionists,

It’s like a poker player’s tell.

Starmey Archer (is that any better?)

Don’t ever give up. These are hilarious.


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 7:58 pm
 ctk
Posts: 1811
Free Member
 

Keir non-Starter


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 8:46 pm
 ctk
Posts: 1811
Free Member
 

Labour really need to have some sort of imaginative, positive plan for Britain.

Am I wrong to assume they've been hatching one over the recent months?


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 8:50 pm
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

Labour really need to have some sort of imaginative, positive plan for Britain.

Won't that make them vulnerable to criticism?

I can't imagine Starmer being that stupid.

Far better to stage hilarious stunts like going shopping for wallpaper in John Lewis.

Oh how he grabbed the imagination of the British people with that one.

And I was in hysterics.


 
Posted : 22/05/2021 9:05 pm
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

Good to see the Labour centrists are letting go of the vendetta against Corbyn and moving on with articulating their vision for the country.

https://news.sky.com/story/call-for-jeremy-corbyn-to-be-investigated-over-failure-to-declare-legal-costs-support-12316067

This is the same Neil Coyle who called Brexit supporters 'fat old racists', clearly the man to help shed the party's image as elitist London-centric remoaners.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 9:32 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

What’s it got to do with Starmer?

Setting up a limited company, in your own name, to handle support and donations, and not publish the sources of that money… well, as an MP he’s just going to have to eventually, isn’t he.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 9:38 am
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

It's been regularly claimed on here that there is no 'war on the left' etc in the Labour party, this is another example of how that isn't true. We are also regularly told the left of the party need to stop their factional in-fighting and tow the party line, but that doesn't seem to cut both ways.

If JC did something wrong then fine but it looks very much like a personal grudge being played out.

Pretty obvious how that relates to Starmer isn't it? Besides no one had anything else much to say about him because he's largely irrelevant.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 9:43 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

How does it relate to Starmer?

Should Corbyn, as an MP, declare where his funds are coming from (if any individual donations are over the limit above which they should be declared in the list of members interests)?

And why not put this in the Corbyn thread?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 9:46 am
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

You don't think the conflict between different elements of the Labour party being played out in the media has anything to do with the leader of the Labour party? Interesting...

I know nothing about JC's expenses or the rules and if he's done something wrong of course he should be reprimanded same as anyone else.

I think Coyle just can't get over the classic 'sorry I don't recognise this number' putdown 😆

https://labourlist.org/2020/09/bermondsey-labour-mp-neil-coyles-texts-to-jeremy-corbyn-revealed/


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 9:52 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

I know nothing about JC’s expenses or the rules and if he’s done something wrong of course he should be reprimanded same as anyone else.

Well, if Starmer says anything about this, he should probably echo what you’ve said there (apart from the ignorance of the rules bit). If he has any sense, he’ll just ignore it.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 10:01 am
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

War on the left?

Get a grip

Seems like just yet another example of the paranoid, tinfoil-helmet bunker mentality of 'the left' indulging in their very favourite pastime... manufacturing grievances to then become very publicly outraged about.

You can't exactly criticise Johnson for his dodgy funding, when your own former leader was guilty of the same, can you?

But then again, we all know that Jeremy is sainted deity who can never possibly be guilty of anything, ever, under any circumstances, and to even suggest that he is anything other than a living god is to commit heresy.

So... what's this got to do with Starmer? Other than being yet another Corbyn-related PITA he could well do without? He's like a particularly determined floater, isn't he?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 10:39 am
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

How does it relate to Starmer?

Oh come off it if you don't think this continued factional nonsense is being led from Starmer's office then you're naive in the extreme. Especially as it comes off the back of accusations that Nick Brown was demoted because he was in favour and working towards restoring the whip to Corbyn. They're obsessed, and it provides more evidence to the fact that the single ambition of Starmer's leadership is not to win elections, but to drive the left out of the party so they can remain in control. Labour as a political force against the tories are going nowhere til Starmer is removed as leader. He needs to go now. Not that I'll be voting against him that is, as it's just been confirmed my membership has been closed 🙂


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 10:40 am
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

Oh come off it if you don’t think this continued factional nonsense is being led from Starmer’s office then you’re naive in the extereme.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 10:44 am
Posts: 2006
Free Member
 

True, but at the same time, Israel is a democracy so one must assume that the brutal occupation has general support of the public there.

I think your assumption says more about you than it does about Israeli opinion as always in this desperate issue there is complexity. If any situation summed up "I wouldn't start from here" it's Israel/ Palestine.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 11:16 am
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

Another copy and paste binners post. Could do with the 6000th posting of a Life of Brian pic too just to complete it.

I dunno about co-ordinating it but I doubt it's been done without approval from Starmer's office.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 11:52 am
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

Binners honestly man this tinfoil hat thing you do whenever anyone suggest that politicians are scheming and plottiing against each other is really silly. That's literally all they exist for, and the right wing of the labour party are particularly obsessed with it. The problem is that unlike their tory friends they're not very good at it, and as a result the labour party looks like the craven, self-obsessed bunch of amateurs that the public rightfully think they are.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:01 pm
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

I dunno about co-ordinating it but I doubt it’s been done without approval from Starmer’s office.

Do you know how politics actually works?

I'd imagine that he's more important things to be doing rather than plotting against some beardy has-been. I would imagine that when this cropped up Starmer thought "Oh FFS!! That washed-up old * is back in the headlines again. Will he not just * off to his allotment, once and for all?!"

I know that your delusions about your messiah don't allow for this, the thought of the universe not revolving around him (and by vicarious extension, you) but rather than project him back into onto the publics view, they'd much rather he just ****ed off for good.

They've their work cut out quite enough clearing up the car crash he left, without helping him add to it.

If anyone wants Magic Grandad front and centre, its Tory central office. He still seems to want to continue his roll as the gift that never stops giving on behalf of the conservative party. A roll his disciples seem massively enthusiastic in supporting him with.

One things for sure, Corbyns bottomless narcissism will be loving this, I'm sure he's absolutely revelling in his victim status, and loving the tedious persecution complex so beloved of those on 'the left' as they rush to defend him in their Twitter echo chambers. Combative virtue signalling ahoy. "I love Jeremy more than you do"


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:05 pm
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

Binners honestly man this tinfoil hat thing you do whenever anyone suggest that politicians are scheming and plottiing against each other is really silly. That’s literally all they exist for

All politicians exist for is to plot and scheme against each other?

Erm... righty ho.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:10 pm
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

Oh dear binners. U ok hun?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:20 pm
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

I'm fine sweatheart.

You?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:22 pm
Posts: 7971
Full Member
 

I’d imagine that he’s more important things to be doing

Good point. He has been busy, checks notes, supporting the Primrose Hill Park curfew.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:23 pm
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

He can find the time for a 3 hour interview with Piers Morgan, and for looking at all those focus group reports.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:24 pm
 Pook
Posts: 12698
Full Member
 

And so it goes on. While you lot are playing a really crappy game of labour future tennis, the tories are nicking the stuff out of your change bags and using it to take the ballgirls out.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:30 pm
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

He can find the time for a 3 hour interview with Piers Morgan

Imagine that? Going on a programme broadcast on primetime TV to an audience of millions?

Absolute madness!


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:41 pm
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

One things for sure, Corbyns bottomless narcissism will be loving this

Except he's been silent and hasn't given it the response everyone seems to crave. He's such a narcissist he's spent the last 18 months on his allotment and working at the foodbank. Meanwhile the right wing idiots in the PLP who are obsessed with him keep creating stories for the newspapers and political commentariat to gossip about. Has it occurrred to you that this recent nonsense about Corbyn is a convenient and obvious distraction from Starmer's gigantic incompetence and lack of vision?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:58 pm
Posts: 12653
Free Member
 

He can find the time for a 3 hour interview with Piers Morgan, and for looking at all those focus group reports.

Time well spent if he actually wants to win an election.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 12:59 pm
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

Time well spent if he actually wants to win an election.

I'm sure the next opinion poll will show that clearly and this doesn't at all look like desperately floundering around for something, anything to give him the slightest hint of having a personality.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:02 pm
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

So, you're saying that if the host of a high-ratings, primetime TV show, with an audience of millions asks you to come on and be interviewed in a more informal manner than a political show, he should say no?

Because....?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:06 pm
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

he should say no?

It's about 12 months too late. Another stark example of his political incompetence. The public have already made their minds up and they're not going to be changed by any amount of soft-soap interviews. Wonder how many times he'll mention his working class parents? I can see it now, 'My mother was a nurse, that's why I think they should get a 2% pay rise'.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:13 pm
Posts: 57318
Full Member
 

It’s about 12 months too late. Another stark example of his political incompetence.

Political incompetence? Hmmmmmm...

You think that a light, soft-focus, prime time interview would have been more appropriate at the height of the first lockdown, when there were thousands of people dying every day?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:19 pm
 grum
Posts: 4531
Free Member
 

Everything he does just has the unmistakeable whiff of desperation and insincerity. This is just the latest example.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:21 pm
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

prime time interview would have been more appropriate at the height of the first lockdown

Don't be daft, what he should have been doing was opposing and exposing Boris's incompetence, instead he was supporting it at every turn. He's such a political genius he's somehow allowed Boris to get away with the deaths of 150,000 people, and take credit for a vaccination programme he had very little to do with. FFS he was even completely outplayed by Angela Rayner, supposedly the thickest MP in parliament. Open your eyes, he's an amateur, completely out of his depth, and he and his scheming right wing friends are taking the labour party down with him.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:30 pm
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

supposedly the thickest MP in parliament

Can you stop repeating that? It's tedious.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 34981
Full Member
 

Don’t be daft, what he should have been doing was opposing and exposing Boris’s incompetence

I'm not convinced that in the middle of pandemic, that wouldn't have been cast as anything other than "petty point scoring" by the right wing tabloids, and given that rollout of the vaccine has been a success, any criticism made by Starmer would be used again and again as a stick to beat him with. Johnson tried to hang the "Captain Hindsight" label onto Starmer, and it didn't work, largely because Starmer wasn't/isn't the story.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 1:45 pm
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

Johnson tried to hang the “Captain Hindsight” label onto Starmer, and it didn’t work

I'm not sure the polls and approval ratings agree. Although captain clueless would be a more appropriate name right now.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 2:15 pm
 rone
Posts: 9783
Free Member
 

War on the left?

Get a grip

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/21/peter-mandelson-i-try-to-undermine-jeremy-corbyn-every-day

Sigh. Always rely on a Centrist commentator to never see what's coming, deny it when it's in front of their face and never take any responsibility for anything.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1233768468408864768?s=19


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 3:19 pm
 rone
Posts: 9783
Free Member
 

pandemic, that wouldn’t have been cast as anything other than “petty point scoring” by the right wing tabloids, and given that rollout of the vaccine has been a success, any criticism made by Starmer would be used again and again as a stick to beat him with.

That's a special level of ridiculousness given the amount of leverage Starmer has against the Government, in the role of actual opposition.

Also, given the Labour party's dreary polling *not opposing* you might think taking the logical position of attacking the government - it might improve their own position with the electorate?


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 3:28 pm
 ctk
Posts: 1811
Free Member
 

Starmer should point out the mistakes made in handling the pandemic.

Johnson missing first few cobra meetings, shaking hands with covid patients ffs

Late into lockdown

VIP PPE !

Late into lockdown again

etc

Captain hindsight or not these things need to be said by the LOTO as the mainstream media are not doing their job.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 4:42 pm
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

Late into lockdown again

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1346845228385382401?s=20


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 4:53 pm
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

I’m not convinced that in the middle of pandemic, that wouldn’t have been cast as anything other than “petty point scoring” by the right wing tabloid

Yup, that's pretty much the line that Starmer is pushing.......the pandemic has prevented him setting out his vision.

Apparently during a crisis is the wrong time to offer an alternative vision to the Tories.

When things get back to normality and everything is just fine and hunky-dory Starmer will then offer a radical alternative which challenges the status quo.

People are only interested in alternative policies when everything is just fine.

Hopefully for Labour there won't be another crisis just before the next general election.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 5:16 pm
Posts: 16200
Free Member
 

I’d imagine that he’s more important things to be doing rather than plotting against some beardy has-been.

Quite right. There are flags to shag, immigrants to demonise, and curfews to support. What we absolutely don't want is him wasting any time at all on setting out a vision for a functioning opposition. Meanwhile, his dwindling number of supporters will continue to argue that there's nothing to be done, as he continues to haemorrhage votes in pursuit of an electoral dead-end.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 6:42 pm
 ctk
Posts: 1811
Free Member
 

Yes Kelvin but he should be doing this every week, every chance he gets - push the points he needs to push until they start to hit home. If his plan is to be a more bearable/ trustable/ competent centrist party then he needs to do a lot of work pointing out why the Tories are ****.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 7:18 pm
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

then he needs to do a lot of work pointing out why the Tories are ****.

Don't be daft, it's much easier having a go at Corbyn.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 8:14 pm
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

For obvious reasons he goes out of his way to try and avoid any mention of Corbyn, never mind “having a go at him”. CTK, Labour are on these topics you mention all the time, none of it cuts through, because the public just hear “vaccines” and “stop denigrating the hard work of NHS staff” in the answers Johnson and his ministers give. The Conservatives are somehow (we know how) managing to get good news to stick to them and bad news to slide off. I’d suggest replacing the top Labour people immediately with others if I honestly thought there was anyone who could turn that around quickly, but it’s fantasy to think a change of personnel would turn the tables overnight. I still think Starmer can’t win an election, and I’d like him to be replaced before the next election… but right now? I see no point in a quick change. Who could cut through? Labour don’t have a system for replacing their leaders quickly and effectively (ruthlessly?) anyway.


 
Posted : 25/05/2021 9:59 pm
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

Labour are on these topics you mention all the time, none of it cuts through, because the public just hear “vaccines” and “stop denigrating the hard work of NHS staff” in the answers Johnson and his ministers give.

The UK covid vaccine programme has been a resounding success, there is no disputing that. It is possibly the most successful in the world.

And there is nothing wrong at all with celebrating success of a publicly funded government programme. In fact it provides a shining example of just what, with determination, can be achieved.

If Labour drove that point home I cannot see how that would impact negatively on them.

But covid is just one issue there are a multitude of other issues, and yet despite that people do not know where Labour stands.

The reason for that is quite simple, Starmer provides no vision of what Labour's alternative to the Tories is. You can't shove the blame for that onto the Tories.

I’d like him to be replaced before the next election… but right now? I see no point in a quick change.

So presumably just keep plodding down the road to nowhere and in the event of Johnson calling a snap election hope and pray someone will be quickly found?

Well it's a plan, I grant you that, but it doesn't sound like a very good one...... Tories take the initiative, Labour reacts.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:00 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

And your ‘plan’ is? If you want Starmer replaced “now”, and we imagine Labour is a party that can do that, who are you proposing?


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:01 am
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

Well a better plan might be to have a leader of the party who provides some sort vision of what a Labour alternative would look like.

Or is that a bit too challenging?


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:18 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

Who is that then? Who are you proposing?


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:19 am
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

Sorry Kelvin your constant editing makes things a bit difficult.

Your original post just asked "And your ‘plan’ is? "

Which I answered.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:20 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

I’m keeping it simple. If you want Starmer replaced ‘now’, who are you proposing?


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:22 am
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

Who are you proposing?

I'm not proposing anyone. If you are suggesting that Labour has no one better than Starmer then obviously that's tragic.

Personally I gave up on Labour a very long time ago, back in the days of New Labour in fact.

I did momentarily, between 2015-2017, believe that perhaps I had got it all wrong and that Corbyn could make Labour relevant again.

I was obviously wrong about that. Corbyn I mean.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:28 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

What do you mean by better? I said I wanted Starmer replaced before an election, and I’ve named names in this thread before, as have others. But there is no point replacing him right now, I can’t see how any of my preferred candidates would do any better right now. If you want him gone ‘now’, who do you want him replaced with?


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:40 am
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

It's you that has talked about replacing Starmer, not me. I have simply pointed out that people don't know what Labour's vision is, and that Starmer is responsible for that, not the Tories.

You are claiming that you want Starmer replaced, but just not now. Which doesn't exactly sound like a particularly good plan to me.

In fact a better plan might be for Starmer to get his finger out and start providing a real alternative to the Tories.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 1:06 am
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

Starmer can “pull his finger” out as much as he wants… he won’t win a general election. And I’m not blaming that entirely on his dullness (or on any political positioning), because I don’t think anyone could have become leader after the last election and taken Labour all the way to an election win. Come the election, Labour need to be new, fresh and distanced from the past. Starmer (or anyone else if they had won the last leadership election) will be utterly damaged by the time we have an election, having taken fire from all sides for many years. A new face will be needed without the baggage of having followed Corbyn, or served under Blair/Brown, but there is no point pushing them forward now. I take your point about an early election making all that sound stupid, and I made that very point myself after the Queen’s Speech. The government do seem to be pathing the way for an early election, and that could well be checkmate, because Labour can not act fast enough to counter such a move. Their approach to leadership contests is a millstone around their necks.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 1:24 am
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

You are putting way too much emphasis on the importance of who is leader of the Labour Party imo.

In the 2017 general election the Labour Party received almost 13 million votes, the largest Labour vote since 1997, and about three and a half million more votes than in the general election 2 years earlier.

Do you honestly think that was simply down to who the leader of the Labour Party was?

Personally I think the makeup of the Labour Party is far more of an issue than who the leader is.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 1:39 am
Posts: 14468
Free Member
 

The size of the Labour vote keeps getting trotted out but it's only one part of it, even more so in a country with a growing population. It has to be viewed alongside share of votes and how those votes yield seats. (Before you even get to the other fairly extraordinary influences)

Labours best result was either 1951 or 1997, and its worst,  well, last year or 1983 (pre purge).


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 6:53 am
Posts: 14468
Free Member
 

Typo, I meant 2019


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 7:13 am
Posts: 12653
Free Member
 

You are putting way too much emphasis on the importance of who is leader of the Labour Party imo.

It is because it is the most important part of a party. To the 80% of voters that are largely ignorant it is the only thing they really base their decision on.

Do you think the tories would have won as many seats without Johnson as leader
Do you think all those ex Labour voters (who didn't change under May) would have changed under say Raab, Gove rather than Johnson
Same goes for Farage (for a smaller audience) Would the same have happened without Farage as leader

It is not right, especially with a leader as technically useless as Johnson, but that is how it works - the public need to like them.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 7:34 am
Posts: 16200
Free Member
 

The size of the Labour vote keeps getting trotted out but it’s only one part of it, even more so in a country with a growing population. It has to be viewed alongside share of votes and how those votes yield seats. (Before you even get to the other fairly extraordinary influences)

True, but the share of the vote can also be highly misleading. In 2017, Labour took 40% of the popular vote, its best performance since 2001, yet they didn't win.

Hartlepool is also interesting: much of the conversation was about ex-Brexit party voters turning out for the Tories, but no-one seems to be talking about the collapse of Labour's vote. The Tories aren't any more popular than they were in 2017, but are taking a much higher % of the vote as people have stopped voting Labour, as well as switching from the Brexit party.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 10:25 am
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

It is because it is the most important part of a party.

Obviously not. Unless you are suggesting that Labour enjoyed significantly greater support the in the 2017 general election than it did in the 2005 general election, because Corbyn was seen in a more positive light by the electorate than Blair had been 12 years earlier.

Is that what you are suggesting? Because it is universally accepted that Corbyn was deeply unpopular, relatively speaking, with the electorate prior to the 2017 general election.

Which is of course precisely why Theresa May called a completely unnecessary general election.

How the leader of a party is perceived by the electorate is important but it's not as important as some people seem to think it is, sometimes other things are even more important. Despite your dismissive claim that 80% of voters are largely ignorant.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 10:48 am
Posts: 12653
Free Member
 

How the leader of a party is perceived by the electorate is important but it’s not as important as some people seem to think it is,

As I said, it is the most important thing. You may not agree, but the evidence backs me up.
Looks at leader vs leader rather than number of votes historically and the more likeable/popular leader always wins. Must be coincidence...


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 11:06 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Do you know how politics actually works?

Some of us do. You, clearly, don't.

I think by now it's obvious that Armrest has pretty much failed to turn the fortunes of the Labour Party around. Mainly due to having no clear ideas on how to address the many issues this country is facing, or to connect with the populace in any meaningful way. The first rule of politics is to be heard; if nobody is listening, then you have no chance of getting your ideas across. Corbyn, by far from being an ideal 'leader', managed to achieve this, despite the massive pressure of a partisan media, the weaponisation of anti-Semitism, and many senior members of his own party, against him. How Armrest can be less popular, despite not having this pressure, really shows just how inadequate he really is. Corbyn is still managing to reach far larger numbers of people, despite not even being in the party at the moment. Armrest, blinkered by his 'unqualified support for Zionism', totally failed to read the public mood regarding the recent atrocities committed by Israel, and is too gutless to say anything more than 'oh people on both sides should back off a bit'. Pathetic.

<p lang="en" dir="ltr">Corbyn spent Saturday addressing 100,000 people in London.<br><br>Starmer spent it addressing 56 Centrists on Zoom. pic.twitter.com/oY4gmkHApi</p>— Kerry-Anne Mendoza 🏳️‍🌈 (@TheMendozaWoman) May 16, 2021

https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

Politics is getting people to listen to you. Armrest isn't doing that. Pissing into the wind. I think even some of the most ardent Armresters on here, can now see he's a failure and needs to go.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 11:30 am
Posts: 15692
Free Member
 

the evidence backs me up.

Well if who is leader is "the most important thing" that clears it up. You obviously think that Corbyn was more popular with the electorate in 2017 than Tony Blair was in 2005.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 11:31 am
Posts: 12653
Free Member
 

You obviously think that Corbyn was more popular with the electorate in 2017 than Tony Blair was in 2005.

I specifically stated it was leader vs leader at time of election, NOT historical voting numbers.

i.e Was Corbyn more popular than May, not was Corbyn more popular than Blair in a completely different election in a completely different time.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 11:41 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

On the subject of Zionism:

The biggest racists I know are zionists

I think this needs to be qualified with a clarification of what 'Zionism' actually is. Do you mean the Zionism of Theodore Hertzl? The Zionism of the founders of the Kibbutzim? The Liberal Zionism of modern middle class westerners? Or the extreme Zionism of cults like Lehava, a far-right fundamentalist group whose slogan is 'Preventing Assimilation'? Because there is an awful lot of difference between say the 'communists' of the Kibbutzim movement, and the fascists of Lehava. There is a world of difference between the Socialist Zionists who believed in the right to self-determination for all Jews, and for the foundation of a nation where Jews cannot suffer the horrors caused by anti-Semitism, and the extreme religious beliefs held by the likes of Lehava. And a whole load of grey in between. 'Zionism' has become somewhat of a pejorative term, used to describe those who believe in the rights of one group over another, and apartheid system as that employed by the current Israeli administration, which I think is grossly unfair, because I know many 'liberal' Zionists who are completely opposed to the fascism of Netanyahu and his acolytes. Once again, the complexity of Zionism is lost on many, and this sets a dangerous precedent, one which has no positive outcome. so I'd urge people to read up, and educate yourselves about Zionism, in order to better understand the situation with Israel and Palestine. Because at the end of the day, it has very little to do with religion, Judaism or anything, and much more to do with western economic and cultural imperialism. Israel was founded under the guise of providing Jews with a safe homeland, a noble cause and one which all of us should respect, but has become a front for US and European economic interests, and a platform to install nuclear weapons pointed at the unruly Arabs. That right-wing extremism has flourished to the point of dominance, is the fault of the west's failure and unwillingness to ensure international laws aren't violated. Because as long as the money keeps flowing, brown people dying doesn't matter. But to get to the root of the issues, we have to look not at Jews, or Muslims, or Israelis, or Palestinians, but to ourselves, here in the affluent 'liberal' west, because it's in our direct interests that that situation is being perpetuated. It's clear that the weaponsitation if anti-Semitism against Corbyn was purely because of his opposition to the actions of the Israeli government, and those of their western enablers, particularly the US and UK governments, and the threat he potentially posed to the flow of all that wealth and power. I'd wager Corbyn knows a fair bit more about actual Zionism than Armrest does, and again, Armrest's abject failure to condemn what are war crimes by the Israeli state, exposes his weakness. A Labour leader needs to stand against such crimes, not condone them. And by sitting on the fence, he is doing just that. Coward.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 11:55 am
Posts: 12653
Free Member
 

Armrest, hilarious


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 12:00 pm
 rone
Posts: 9783
Free Member
 

Sorry, cross post, but relevant here.

Why is Cummings doing Starmer's job so well?

Starmer going easy on the government has led to where we are today.

Culpable.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 1:02 pm
Posts: 12653
Free Member
 

Why is Cummings doing Starmer’s job so well?

Because he is a bitter, spurned egotist. Might not want him as a leader...


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 1:09 pm
 dazh
Posts: 13387
Full Member
 

Starmer just got handed the biggest open goal in the history of opposition politics and still failed to land a blow. The govt of the day has just been exposed as an incompetent, lying and chaotic shitshow which directly led to the deaths of tens of thousands by one of it's main protagonists and all Starmer can think of is to demand an inquiry be brought forward?


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 1:24 pm
Posts: 31037
Full Member
 

Because... the opposition slamming the PM's "work" is just dismissed as "political games" and "looking backwards" and "Captain Hindsight".. EVEN when the information and claims come from someone who was at the heart of the PM's team. It has to become received wisdom, rather than an accusation from the opposition, that this part time PM has utterly failed us. It has to come from all quarters, not just the Labour front bench. Pointing out that the PM is trying to kick the truth into the long grass, with a delayed inquiry, is all part of the "what does the PM have to hide" line. The PM is on the ropes, but successfully looking upright through bluff, bluster and the help of those with interests aligned with him. I still think he'll get through all this just fine, but the public need to feel that he is being unveiled by all, not just attacked by the leader of the opposition, if anything is going to stick to him.


 
Posted : 26/05/2021 1:47 pm
Page 81 / 281