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Yeah Binners, stop supporting Labour, you’re not pure enough, you’re not wanted.
you’re not pure enough
It’s got bugger all to do with being pure (I don’t know what that means BTW), But if you’re against the vast majority of the people in a party then it’s logical to question whether it’s the place for you.
Labour needs a wider appeal, not a narrower one. We live in a country where FPTP means that narrowly focussed parties will only ever hold office locally, when the central government holds all the real political power to effect everyone’s lives. And you are telling a party member he’s the wrong kind of member. I’ve met plenty of people like you, people who complain of ‘purges’ while making others unwelcome, and they (along with the rule on not showing support for other parties), is what keeps me the hell away from joining Labour as a member. Happy to be a supporter and a voter. Labour needs to be for the whole country, not just its members. It’s not currently seen that way by many.
I’ve met plenty of people like you, people who complain of ‘purges’ while making others unwelcome
So first off I'm not a member (technically I am still but I stopped paying the fees and they're too incompetent to get round to accepting my resignation), because after joining up in the naive hope that Starmer was true to his word about maintaining the policies and uniting the party, I quickly realised it was all bollocks so decided it wasn't for me. In their current state I doubt whether I'll even vote for them in future. So I'm only suggesting that binners and people like him also make an objective assessment on whether the labour party is a place for them as I have.
Secondly, the only purges that have occured have been under Starmer's leadership. Almost no one got kicked out under Corbyn, yet under Starmer many longstanding members and acitivists, including the former leader himself have been kicked out for transparently partisan reasons. You talk of people being made to feel unwelcome, well Starmer is doing a superb job at that, and is much more effective at it than the phantom leftwing ogres you imagine. It's literally the only thing he's been good at, and it's why he's tanking in the polls and looking further from power than even Corbyn himself, which is saying something because I'm pretty certain Corbyn never even wanted the job.
kelvin
Full MemberLabour needs a wider appeal, not a narrower one. We live in a country where FPTP means that narrowly focussed parties will only ever hold office locally, when the central government holds all the real political power to effect everyone’s lives. And you are telling a party member he’s the wrong kind of member. I’ve met plenty of people like you, people who complain of ‘purges’ while making others unwelcome, and they (along with the rule on not showing support for other parties), is what keeps me the hell away from joining Labour as a member. Happy to be a supporter and a voter. Labour needs to be for the whole country, not just its members. It’s not currently seen that way by many.
Ironically, and rather amusingly, you are actually arguing against binners stance, despite attempting to defend him.
It is binners who is ranting about the wrong sort of person "colonising" the party. And he castigates Ed Miliband for believing that "Labour needs to be for the whole country, not just its members".
I'll remind you what binners said:
Ed’s catastrophic error in allowing them to colonise the party for 3 quid a pop
For “3 quid a pop” they weren’t members, they were supporters with a vote. Unlike Binners, I’m glad Corbyn made the changes he did for the 2017 GE. And he couldn’t have done so without the new supporters and members. Most of them were first time members/supporters of any party, and that excitement for a Labour Party with new direction and a different leadership style was very real. It wasn’t all middle aged men who had moved to Labour from the Communist Party or other fringe groups, it was mostly young people.
No they weren't. I'll remind you what you said, quote :
"Labour needs to be for the whole country, not just its members. "
Yeah Binners, stop supporting Labour, you’re not pure enough, you’re not wanted.
It's not about being pure it's the fact that he appears to despise the majority of Labour party members/activists, as well as trade unions and the Labour movement generally that the party is grounded in. It really doesn't seem like a good fit.
And btw you need to tell that to binners. He believes they "colonised" the party, which sggests that they were members.
“Labour needs to be for the whole country, not just its members“
Quote that as often as you want!
Thanks.
Does Binners really despise them, or their unwillingness to meet the voters “half way”? And who does he (or you) mean anyway? “The Left” for most people is everyone in and voting for Labour. To some inside it is a smaller or larger, grouping that expands and contracts depending on the point being made and who is trying to make the point.
Where is that happening?
You’ve not noticed it?
Attempts to remove the barriers between the wider voters and Labour results in claims of…
- being pro-establishment
- not opposing the Conservatives
- being Blairite
- being liberals
- flag shagging
- standing for nothing
- being dull
[ actually, that last one I agree with ]
So you’d think that ‘the left’ might do a bit of soul-searching, maybe acknowledge the damage they’ve done and maybe show a bit of humility
It's a fair point: a lot of the left voted for Starmer and should acknowledge their mistake.
You lot seriously need to engage with the real world some time soon
Sums up this thread. There are two things here
1. What the Labour party should be to make the Labour "nerds" happy in their ideal world
2. What the Labour party should be to get elected
There is not a lot of overlap in these two and I am biased very much for 2.
As the "great" man said - Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress
There seems to be an assumption here that voters opinions are static and, if they appear to be rightwing DM readers, the job of the LP is therefore to lead from the right. Up until now front line workers have been very popular and clearly overworked and underpaid. Now there's an opprtunity to get in front of a support the nurses' full pay claim campaign and also be arguing against privatisation and 'Health Security'. Sadly, it ain't gonna happen.
They've already said 'find another way to protest' implying that anyone who gets battered by batons shouldn't have been there in the first place. His first statement of principles about zionism might not play too well with a good few million of normally Labour voters. It's unclear as to whom they are appealing.
The government's record is shocking. What makes people gooey-eyed and fuzzily irrational? The flag. Demand that the flag be on every government building then people will get gooey eyed about the flag and the government. Result. (Cost for advice from the Nadge Unit: £???m).
Ahh… nurses pay… perfect example. The ‘half way’ between Labour ideals and the public is to say that the government’s 1% is an insult, but without backing the 14% figure that the unions are (rightly in my opinion) pushing for (or even the 50% or whatever some on here were suggesting). Pay the nurses more say Labour. Not enough say some. Labour are now just like the government they say. What about Israel they say next. The voters recoil. Then Len McCluskey has his say. The voters shudder.
So binners you can’t explain why you expect Labour to lose Hartlepool despite Starmer apparently being a great electoral asset, and the seat being won twice by Labour under Corbyn.
Labour are going to lose Hartlepool for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, and the main reason: the former Corbynite Labour MP for the Colne Valley, Thelma Walker is standing against the labour candidate as an independent. This will split the vote, take a stack of votes off labour and none whatsoever off the Tory's, thus delivering the Tory candidate the seat, gift-warapped with a nice big bow and some party poppers to let off at their victory Zoom call with Boris that evening.
https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1376305305739522056?s=20
*slow handclap for Thelma*
Secondly. I think what we're about to witness is probably the greatest political paradox of my lifetime. Boris is presently being handed two get out of jail free cards by two groups of people he despises and who despise him right back.
The NHS (an organisation he would privatise in a heartbeat if he thought he could get away with it) staff who have delivered the vaccination programme have basically saved his sorry hide with their dedication and efficiency. In return he has treated them with contempt, as you'd expect, but it would appear that through their actions they have wiped the slate clean of a year of dithering, incompetence and corruption.
The theres the EU. They've also given Boris a nice big present in the form of their own hopeless dealing with the vaccination programme. In an area that is very very Brexity indeed, the EU have just confirmed pretty much everything that the Brexiteers said was wrong wit the EU and why we were right to leave it
*slow handclap for Ursula Von De Leyen*
Keir Starmer and the Labour hierarchy are little more than bystanders in all this.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
EDIT: I've just had a look at the odds. Labour are on 1.8/1, the Tory's are 1.9/1. So theres nowt in it. I've just stuck a tenner on a Tory win so that when Boris does somewhat ridiculously increase his majority at least I'll get a small financial compensation
Do you have a different prediction?
Attempts to remove the barriers between the wider voters and Labour results in claims of…
– being pro-establishment
– not opposing the Conservatives
– being Blairite
– being liberals
– flag shagging
– standing for nothing
– being dull
Which parts of that aren't true though?
The thing is, it's a bit like a football team in that a lot could be forgiven with a bit of success. But to abandon many of the things the Labour Party has traditionally represented, kick the former leader out of the party, embrace nationalism, whip MPs to vote for Brexit having previously campaigned for the opposite, and STILL be hopelessly far behind in the polls, well...
Edit: if in doubt, keep on blaming Corbyn for everything - laughable
This will split the vote, take a stack of votes off labour and none whatsoever off the Tory’s, thus delivering the Tory candidate the seat, gift-warapped with a nice big bow and some party poppers to let off at their victory Zoom call with Boris that evening.
I thought the only people who supported Corbyn/his policies was a small cabal of unreformed 1970s Marxists, but now they are going to swing the election to the Tories? Interesting...
Double post
Edit: if in doubt, keep on blaming Corbyn for everything – laughable
One of his disciples (former secretary to John Mcdonnell) is standing against the labour candidate as an independent, thus splitting the labour vote and handing the seat to the Tory's. Thats not really laughable, is it? It's really, really bloody stupid and totally self-defeating.Once again being Boris's useful idiots
I thought the only people who supported Corbyn/his policies was a small cabal of unreformed 1970s Marxists, but now they are going to swing the election to the Tories?
So, do you think my prediction is wrong then? I've shown my workings in the margin and everyfink.
Stick some money on it. I have.
Do you fancy the usual pastry-based wager? I'll have a tenner of Greggs vouchers with you that the seat goes blue?
2. What the Labour party should be to get elected
There is not a lot of overlap in these two and I am biased very much for 2.
As the “great” man said – Don’t let perfection be the enemy of progress
I think you've described most members of the party, the evidence for which is all those former Corbyn-supporters who supported Starmer in the belief that a compromise candidate would deliver a pragmatic outcome. I see that Dodds is now being set up as the fall guy/ woman for the party's dismal performance, presumably because there's no-one on the left of the party still in a position to be purged.
Well I'm glad that you have got your excuses in nice early binners. So you are convinced that Labour will lose the Hartlepool by-election but none of it will be Starmers, the Labour Party Leader, fault.
Instead it will be the fault of, first of all, an alleged Corbynite independent candidate, which kinda makes it Corbyn's fault.
Secondly, and unsurprisingly, it will be Boris Johnson's fault.
And thirdly, and rather more surprisingly, it will be the EU's fault if Labour lose the by-election.
Well as long as it's not Starmers fault, eh binners?
You ask me if I have a different prediction. Well I don't know who will win the Hartlepool by-election. I suspect, but don't know, that Labour will win it. After all Labour won Hartlepool in the previous 2 parliamentary elections.
But what I do know for sure is that Labour must win safe Labour seats if it is to form a government. I don't subscribe to you very bizarre claim that safe Labour seats don't matter as long as Labour wins the Tory marginals.
Do you fancy the usual pastry-based wager? I’ll have a tenner of Greggs vouchers with you that the seat goes blue?
I've no idea if the seat will go to the Tories, but it's interesting that you can't bring yourself to admit that it could be because Starmer isn't offering anything to persuade people to vote Labour.
When I say "interesting", I mean "entirely predictable"
I see that Dodds is now being set up as the fall guy/ woman for the party’s dismal performance, presumably because there’s no-one on the left of the party still in a position to be purged.
More purge bollocks.
Dodds is an abysmal media performer and needs shifting. She's not the only one. A reshuffle is needed. That some of those that need removing from the front bench aren't from the "Left" of the party should be welcome. I'd like to see Clive Lewis and David Lammy given bigger roles.
More purge bollocks.
Dodds an abysmal media performer and needs shifting. She’s not the only one.
"The buck stops anywhere but here"
“The buck stops anywhere but here”
Sorry? Have you missed me saying Starmer is boring? He needs the best team possible on the front bench, people who can make up for his very real weaknesses. It's not "passing the buck" to have a reshuffle to move aside those that need to be. Dodds comes across as the smart policy wonk in a treasury team, who has had to step in at the last minute for a TV interview she was never expecting, because the shadow chancellor tested positive for covid 20 minutes before air time.
Binners your massive list of excuses is exactly the reason why labour might lose in Hartlepool. Just like they did in Scotland, the labour party take seats like Hartlepool for granted, and treat the voters in them with utter contempt. Then when the voters start asking tricky questions such as 'what have you actually done for us over the past 30 years in return for our votes?', they have no response beyond telling them that's just they way things are and it's all the fault of other people. The problem isn't nasty lefties, Boris, Farage, the EU, or the bogeyman, it's the fault of labour party politicians who long ago forgot what they were there to do, which is fight for the interests of working people in places like Hartlepool.
I'm not going to predict the result in Hartlepool as it's too close to call (swinging towards them losing though), but I will confidently predict that they are heading for a collapse as we've seen in Scotland, and as we've seen in other countries where the 'workers party' stopped serving the workers. I almost look forward to it in fact, because until they disappear and make space for something new, the tories will go unchallenged.
I don’t subscribe to you very bizarre claim that safe Labour seats don’t matter as long as Labour wins the Tory marginals.
My theory? When did I say that? labour needs to regain its former safe seats and convince people in marginal seats to vote for them too, like they did in 3 elections from 1997
Incidentally: they're not 'Tory' marginals. They're just marginals
Instead it will be the fault of, first of all, an alleged Corbynite independent candidate, which kinda makes it Corbyn’s fault.
Theres nothing alleged about it:
https://twitter.com/MikeGapes/status/1376304169984929792?s=20
If you take a look on Twitter you'll see her supporters, the usual lefties, are gleefully relishing the prospect of Labour losing the seat. I've changed my mind. They're not a cult. They're a fifth column. The Tory's must be looking at this and absolutely laughing their tits off. I bet Boris can't believe his luck. His greatest asset - Jezza - may be gone, but his supporters just carry on delivering for him.
Cheers!
They’re a fifth column.
No, they're just people who have justifiably decided that the labour party does not represent them or the interests of working people, and so they need to try something else. The responsibility for that lies with the labour party leadership who arrogantly think the people they call racists and extremists will obediently stay in the party and do what they're told. I said a year ago that Starmer needed to work with and engage with the left otherwise they'd leave and cause problems for him. Well that's exactly how it's turning out, and the fact that you expect labour to lose Hartlepool as a result only confirms that.
Awaits, the “well, Blair started the move” which I will simply say, bollocks did he.
But he did. That's why we are where we are right now. The tories simply carried on what he'd started. Even Thatcher, when asked what was her greatest legacy, replied 'Tony Blair'.
Yabbering on about Labour is waste of time unless you’re centre-right.
Corbyn or Starmer – it doesn’t matter.
Neither of them would or will make any radical changes to UK society.
This is pretty much spot on.
Edited. There's no point getting into this argument. It's utterly pointless.
Well, you start the revolution then. Crack on. If you think it's impossible for a Labour government to effect any real change, then why do you care who is their party leader or what they are doing?
EDIT: oh, you've deleted your calls for revolution and your explanations as to why you think a Labour government led by anyone can't improve anything
Edited again. As bored as I am today, getting involved in this nonsense is about as productive as painting a cat. I'll leave you to it.
Delusion is thinking that leaving the Tories in power for the rest of our lives will result in any substantial change for the better. Still, as long as people are shifting "the debate", then someone is winning an argument, so that's fine.
EDIT: so you've deleted all your contribution again bridges ?
Why are you so angry with me?
I'm not angry... but the "can't change things by electing a different government" approach is one I find very unhelpful and defeatist. Revolution isn't coming. Elections still really matter in the UK. Replying to your [now deleted] comments isn't a sign of anger.
Well, you start the revolution then.
Well funny isn't it because when people like Thelma Walker try to do something people like Binners call them traitors! What I don't get is why you guys support a system which has given you all the things you profess to hate like brexit, racism, corruption etc. If you don't think it can be changed fine, but don't then have a go at the people who get off their arses and try and do something.
Elections still really matter in the UK.
The evidence shows otherwise.
Elections still really matter in the UK.
Why do you think this?
I’d like to see Clive Lewis and David Lammy given bigger roles.
So would I. Lewis could be a bit risky but Lammy should definitely be in there.
I don’t get is why you guys support a system
Who "supports a system"? We need major reform. Another 10, 20, 40 years of Conservative governments aren't going deliver that. Well... they will reform things, but only to ensure they it becomes harder and harder to remove them.
Wanting Labour to win a FPTP general election is not "supporting" the system we have, it's engaging with it.
don’t then have a go at the people who get off their arses and try and do something
I don't. I support them. Including donating to groups actively pushing for change.
Also, that sentence is exactly what I think when people moan on about "career politicians" who have left being their previously hard won careers to try and make a difference. Such as Keir Starmer. He has got off his arse and is trying to do something.
Wanting Labour to win a FPTP general election is not “supporting” the system we have, it’s engaging with it.
So; having a leader who is utterly useless and will not affect any significant change, what's the point of that? It'll just be another rich man in a suit, replacing another rich man in a suit. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...
Can I just ask, though; if Starmer did become PM (unlikely, but you never know), what do you think would change in the UK? I think it's more productive discussing that, than 'yabbering on' about what a bastard Corbyn is, etc.
We need major reform
And you think Starmer would achieve that?
Well funny isn’t it because when people like Thelma Walker try to do something people like Binners call them traitors!
I've not called anyone a traitor. I've pointed out that the most likely outcome of her actions is an increased Tory majority
Vive la revolution, comrade!
Oh my god... Starmer wears a suit!
First against the wall, all those suit wearers.
I'm pretty much done with our political system tbh. I'll probably still vote I suppose but only out of habit/guilt/hatred of Tories. Corbyn had many flaws but his leadership showed quite clearly that the establishment will not tolerate someone who doesn't fit into the window of what has been decided is acceptable. Lurches to the right are ok, lurches to the left not so much.
It's not a conspiracy it's just the way the system is, and it's never going to change until the whole thing completely crumbles to pieces.
Kelvin your posts on here are increasingly bitter and straw mannish - maybe try and step away from these threads for a bit.
I’m pretty much done with our political system tbh.
Aren't we all? It's still there though.
Apathy (no, more than that, resentment of) our political system is pretty widespread. And time and time again, the more motivated swing elections because of it. Sadly, the demographic of "motivated" voters isn't a very pretty one if you want any moves towards a more democratic, more equal, more open society.
maybe try and step away from these threads for a bit.
Wise advice.
Keir Starmer. He has got off his arse and is trying to do something.
What, exactly, is he trying to do? Other than further damage the Labour party, and create more division in society? I'd be really interested in what you think he's 'trying to do'.
Sadly, the demographic of “motivated” voters isn’t a very pretty one if you want any moves towards a more democratic, more equal, more open society.
I'm going to try and concentrate on things I can actually change, in my local area - if I think too much about the creeping (or maybe not even creeping) far-right authoritarianism in our country and how little I can do about it, it just makes me sad/angry/fearful.
I can only hope Scotland gains independence and I'll try and move back up there once the kids are a bit older. Scottish politics isn't exactly covering itself in glory either though.
I’m going to try and concentrate on things I can actually change, in my local area
Sage advice. We really do put way too much emphasis on party politics and too much faith and expectation in politicians. It's why I keep banging on about decentralisation etc, and why I don't call myself a socialist, because ultimately I don't believe in the power of the state or politicians. We are actually much more powerful than we think, but the politicians and their fanboys don't want anyone to figure that out, because they'd be redundant if we did. Let them play their pointless game, and then ignore them and get on with your life.
I’ve not called anyone a traitor.
"They're not a cult. They're a fifth column".
We need major reform. Another 10, 20, 40 years of Conservative governments aren’t going deliver that.
And neither will Starmer. Corbyn wasn't even proposing much beyond making it a bit less ruthlessly anti-worker. So what reform do you think we need and who do you think will deliver it? On the current evidence it won't be the labour party. So who?
If you think it’s impossible for a Labour government to effect any real change, then why do you care who is their party leader or what they are doing?
I don't believe it's impossible but I see no evidence at all to think that it will be delivered by the current leadership. For all Binners' bleating about the left, the irony is that it's Starmer who is the Tories' greatest gift, with his curious insistence on seeking room in the places they are strongest.
Are they seriously going to try and fix the Labour party with Jess Phillips?
OMFG.
It's like plugging a water leak by drilling more holes.
In other news...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/29/keir-starmer-year-labour-poll-ratings
When your friends gang up on you.
When your friends gang up on you.
Even without the massive media opposition that Corbyn suffered, Starmer is still unpopular. Perhaps the Starmerists can explain why.
Still; it's good to see anti-Semitism has been completely eradicated from the Labour party.
https://jwa.org/blog/weaponization-antisemitism-naomi-wimborne-idrissis-suspension-uk-labour-party
Is it just me or is Starmer looking increasingly red-faced? With every passing week he looks more and more like Charles Kennedy. I hope he's getting some help 😉
Still; it’s good to see anti-Semitism has been completely eradicated from the Labour party.
https://jwa.org/blog/weaponization-antisemitism-naomi-wimborne-idrissis-suspension-uk-labour-party
/blockquote>Suspending a Jewish Labour activist who is descended from holocaust survivors for daring to question the response to the EHRC report, who has herself been on the receiving end of vile abuse from supposed Labour supporters - yup that sounds like how to tackle anti-semitism. If you are a 'zionist' with rich Israeli lobbyist backers (that you kept secret until elected leader) anyway.
There's a video of her speaking and she isn't some crazed marxist, she is exactly the kind of person the Labour Party was founded for/by, but now there's no place for her in it.
Dangerous extremist! It's actually the best explanation of the entire anti-semitism debacle I've seen.
Binners. I was going to respond to your last post but as I didn't know where to start I decided not to bother.
Besides, the entertainment value of your daily rants are such that I feel it would be churlish of me to repeatedly nitpick them. And after all I'm sure no one is suppose to take them very seriously.
BTW I particularly enjoyed your post a few weeks ago when you drew everyone's attention to an opinion poll which had placed Labour in the lead. Since then there have been 40 opinion polls, all them showing a Tory lead. Although I'm sure that according to you it's all Jeremy Corbyn fault. Or Boris Johnson's.
Just watched that. And the poll that showed 55% of people didn't know what Labour stood for. My question - what the hell are the other 45% thinking?
Probably something like this....
DrJ
Free MemberJust watched that. And the poll that showed 55% of people didn’t know what Labour stood for.
The really sad thing is that when Labour did their own internal studies after Miliband, they found the exact same issue. But it took a while to complete those reports, and in the meantime "Miliband was too left wing" had become the accepted truth.
So here we are again, 6 years down the line and one of the biggest takeaways of Miliband's leadership has been completely forgotten, and in fact in a lot of cases intentionally buried.
Labour have incredible form on this of course; from the self harm of the "Blair made Labour electable" fantasy, to the ongoing daily issues of "we lost Scotland because of the indy ref". And too many Corbyn myths to even start. It's not just that they don't reliably learn from the mistakes of the past; that's bad, but what's worse is they also don't learn from the victories. The party's whole idea of who and what they are, their history, purpose and future is a mess. Every new leader ends up building on that same foundation of mud, with slightly different mud bricks (and man do the people with slightly different mud hate that)
Of course the two leaderships are very different, but obviously and completely unsurprisingly the same problem exists. With Miliband the mad thing is how obvious and easy to diagnose it was. I mean, they knew it themselves, it's just that it led to self-harm like the Ed Stone instead of useful action.
Starmer, not so simple. Some of it's the same. "Nurses deserve more pay" "how much more"? "er, dunno" was the Milibandiest thing ever. Mostly it's not the same. I think Starmer quite likely does have a pretty strong feeling of self and of where he wants to lead, but doesn't communicate it. Weirdly though it often feels like where it came from incompetence and genuine rudderlessness with Miliband's team and with the man himself, with Starmer it's something they work really hard at.
The other thing, is how close it is between success and failure on this. David Cameron was an absolute vaccuum before he was PM. But he had the knack of being a blank white wall that people could project onto, of saying just the right meaningless things and having people fill in the gaps. Trump could do the same- people translated his gibberish how they wanted. But Starmer can't. Probably that's to his credit but it means he deparately needs something else.
politics AND a sense of humour:
The LP will struggle*
*NB not class struggle
The people that Channel 4 ask for views on Starmer/Johnson tell you all you need to know about letting people vote. To summarise
Johnson is doing a great job and the same numbers of deaths would have occurred whoever was leader
Couldn't trust Starmer as far as you could throw him. Can trust a proven liar (Johnson) over a former QC, mmmm.
the right meaningless things and having people fill in the gaps. Trump could do the same- people translated his gibberish how they wanted. But Starmer can’t.
Exactly. Starmer is not good at playing the game and neither was Corbyn. If you don't know how the game works you are not going to be winning it are you. Losing massively and stating that at least you had integrity is not helping much.
The people that Channel 4 ask for views on Starmer/Johnson tell you all you need to know about letting people vote.
It was amazing to watch people say things like "Johnson will tell it to you straight", and "He's a strong leader, he had problems at the beginning of the pandemic but he's come through the other side". I mean - how do you communicate with these ^H^H^H^H^H people?
Lisa Nandy outdoing herself this morning on national tv, refusing to say what everyone can see with their own eyes because she doesn't have the courage to take a position against the government on the behaviour of the police. And they wonder why people don't trust them and won't vote for them? Have they actually got an opinion on anything?
https://twitter.com/labourleft/status/1377166187231014917?s=20
Ouch!
https://novaramedia.com/2021/03/31/imagine-starmer-is-polling-badly-now-times-that-by-ten/
And meanwhile those traitorous fifth columnists are gathering momentum...
https://twitter.com/FreeNorthNow/status/1377574631708749825?s=20
And meanwhile those traitorous fifth columnists are gathering momentum…
Looks like Binners might have nailed it, unfortunately...
Labour are going to lose Hartlepool for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, and the main reason: the former Corbynite Labour MP for the Colne Valley, Thelma Walker is standing against the labour candidate as an independent. This will split the vote, take a stack of votes off labour and none whatsoever off the Tory’s, thus delivering the Tory candidate the seat, gift-warapped with a nice big bow and some party poppers to let off at their victory Zoom call with Boris that evening.
Yebbut who caused the split?
Looks like Binners might have nailed it, unfortunately…
The only thing binners nailed was the fact that Starmer's war against the left has (as I predicted a year ago) forced many in the party to leave and pursue their own agenda. I'm pretty sure when I made that prediction it was roundly dismissed (and celebrated) by binners, but now it seems he and others are not that keen. TBH given his penchant for black pudding and all things 'chippy northerner', the NIP should be right up binners' street. I remember on more than one occasion him saying we need a northern SNP, well now we have it. 🙂
war against the left
Such as?
Lisa Nandy outdoing herself this morning on national tv, refusing to say what everyone can see with their own eyes because she doesn’t have the courage to take a position against the government on the behaviour of the police.
Lisa Nandy only cares what the Express-reading Brexit-voting white working class voters in her constituency think (*).
* I use the term loosely.
I thought the complaints were that Labour didn't listen enough to Brexit-voting white working class voters? Hard to keep up with what Labour are supposed to be getting wrong from day to day.
I think it's possible for different people to have different complaints, no?
Yebbut who caused the split?
It. Really. Doesn't. Matter.
Such as?
Kelvin instead of being pedantically and wilfully ignorant, perhaps instead you should ask why tens of thousands of leftwing members and activists have left the party? The fact that this has and is happening is all the proof you need that Starmer has completely failed in his goal of 'unifying the party'. He's split the party, and it is weaker as a result. He's achieved something no other leader has, so perhaps he and his supporters should start taking some responsibility for it.
perhaps instead you should ask why tens of thousands of leftwing members and activists have left the party?
Because they like losing elections?
Cure me of my ignorance. Show me details of “Starmer’s war on the left”… it feels much like the purge others claim exists (Bill’s last example of this was a Hartlepool councillor losing his membership after supporting the "NIPS" candidate). An exodus of members who are unhappy with the direction of the leadership is not a “war on the left” or a “purge of the left” it is simply members unhappy that the party doesn’t represent them sufficiently. Supporting alternative parties and candidates is one thing… claims of there being victims of a “war on the left” or “purge of the left” is something else, and if it’s happening on any meaningful scale, you’ll have examples to share… name names.
Starmer has completely failed in his goal of ‘unifying the party’
Absolutely he has. As will anyone else that tries. I think that’s clear to us all, and it is true of the voting public. Split and still unready to govern, that is how Labour is viewed by most people.
Jackie Walker, Chris Williamson, Jeremy Corbyn, Moshe Machover, Tony Greenstein.....
I was a member of the Labour party when I thought Corbyn was the sort of person who may do it. After a few weeks I saw how wrong I was and didn't renew. My money now goes to the Green party as they are more in line with my thinking and need more help even though they have far less chance of getting anywhere than even a Starmer Labour party.