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If only the media picked on Boris (or any other Tory) the same way they picked on Farron & Corbyn.
Yeah Farron was kinda ambushed - it was pretty much 'with your religious beliefs, how do you feel about rimming? What about felching? Cottaging? Hmm? Eh? Hmmm? Our area would be naturally Tory really but he keeps getting elected because he works his arse off and is accessible and accountable to his constituents. No copy and paste responses to letters.
BTW I just watched the Labour party political broadcast and I think I have even less idea what Labour stands for than I did before.
I found it a very depressing watch. Again though, not aimed at me, is it. Getting people to switch from Tory to Labour in Tory seats (that’s where we are now, with the LibDems all but gone and Labour falling back further and further in SNP seats) is at the heart of all current messaging. And I’m as far from being one of those target voters as possible. As I think are you Grum.
Link online anywhere?
I just watched the Labour party political broadcast and I think I have even less idea what Labour stands for than I did before
I'm beginning to despair for the next election. Starmer has avoided the blatant open goals to avoid the accusation of playing politics with the crisis, instead of pointing out the repeated errors and cockups and the fact that the government is directly responsible for half the deaths and economic disaster.
He needs to stop being the nice guy and be the ****ing furious but rational guy.
Cheers dallas
With every week that passes Starmer looks more like the charisma and personality free robotic lawyer that many feared he would be. Outside of politely deferring to Boris and his idiot friends no one has any idea what he stands for or what the point in labour is any more. I know I don’t. I haven’t got a clue where he or labour are going, and I have an unhealthy interest in it so god knows what the average voter who doesn’t follow politics thinks.
They probably notice the union flag he keeps standing in front of. I think that’s meant for them.
Anyway, do you wish you’d voted for one of the other candidates now Dazh? If so, which one?
With every week that passes Starmer looks more like the charisma and personality free robotic lawyer that many feared he would be.
Sadly yes. If he has any passion he certainly doesn't show it.
If not Starmer, who WOULD we like to see as LOTO?
How much of the Government's new found competence coincides with the removal of the charismatic psychopath as advisor, are there really some grown ups in charge now?
Or how much is because everything so far has been so appalling that there are effectively no choices any more, hence no chance of choosing the wrong one.
Leading someone up to the end of a cul-de-sac and then confidently proclaiming you know the route is back the way you came isn't competence in map reading.
god knows what the average voter who doesn’t follow politics thinks.
It won't really matter until five minutes before the next election.
If not Starmer, who WOULD we like to see as LOTO?
Ed Killerband.
He seems to have some fire in him these days.
If not Starmer, who WOULD we like to see as LOTO?
As a leader who the public would warm to, already know them and is likeable I would say Ed Balls (he has even been on strictly come dancing!)
(would need to get him back as MP again first though obviously)
The average voter is not deep into policies, they are not watching PMQs, they are not even into politics but they would vote for someone who they like and has some easy to remember phrases in place of policies (see Boris Johnson)
LOTO? Piers Morgan* seems pretty good at holding the government to account. I'd pay to watch that PMQs
Yes, I know he's a **** but
If not Starmer, who WOULD we like to see as LOTO?
Marcus Rashford.
"> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000ryh2/party-political-broadcasts-labour-party-01022021
I found it a very depressing watch. Again though, not aimed at me, is it.
I.... actually quite liked it. Sure it's not some tub thumping fanfare, but it's not the time for that. Touched on the Tory incompetence but didn't dwell too long and overall was a decent positive package.
Moving forward they can't keep being so timid, but for right now, thought it was pretty well judged, both verbal and imagery.
god knows what the average voter who doesn’t follow politics thinks.
depressingly (or not depends-on your view I guess) I was having this conversation with some of the young volunteers at the COVID vaccination site at the weekend, I’d say that over half of them had to think for a bit before naming the PM and most didn’t know what party was currently in govt, and most of them didn’t care. They haven’t a clue who Kier Starmer is
If not Starmer, who WOULD we like to see as LOTO?
Could we arrange a free transfer of Nicola Sturgeon for you?
and most didn’t know what party was currently in govt, and most of them didn’t care.
Yes. It's shocking how many people couldn't answer "What are the core principles party X stands for"? With the exception probably of the Greens and Brexit. 🙂
I’m beginning to despair for the next election. Starmer has avoided the blatant open goals to avoid the accusation of playing politics with the crisis, instead of pointing out the repeated errors and cockups and the fact that the government is directly responsible for half the deaths and economic disaster.
He needs to stop being the nice guy and be the **** furious but rational guy.
They were looking at this in the Observer on Sunday. The problem the Labour party has is that all polling and focus grouping is showing that in the situation we're presently in, a majority of voters tend to agree with the 'playing politics' and 'rallying behind the government' message. Thats why Boris reverts to it all the time. Because it works.
It appears that when Starmer points out that the government has done things too late, then that works and hits home with voters, but the moment he steps beyond that and goes on the offensive, voters take a very dim view. Thats why Boris keeps on with the default accusations of 'Playing Politics' when being held to account. It works, and he knows it (because he'll be doing the same polling and focus grouping, showing the same results)
So Starmer is doing what all the evidence is pointing too and treading very carefully. Its a balance.
Before the next election (in 4 years) this will be largely behind us (the economic impact won't be, obviously) and there is going to be one serious reckoning about how this whole thing was handled. You can only imagine what further horrors, incompetence, cronyism and corruption the public inquiry will unearth. Thats the time to be doing things, not now.
As someone who does actually watch the news, as you lot do, Starmer spent yesterday doing exactly what he should have been doing. visiting people who are impacted by the post-Grenfall cladding on buildings scandal and calling for the government to sort out the mess and start holding the dodgy developers and cladding suppliers to account.
What exactly would those criticising him have him do? Practically?
When you just say 'show some passion' we all know that despite playing well with the cult members on Twitter, Corbyns shouty ten-second soundbites went down like a cup of warm sick with the electorate, so they've already shown that they certainly don't want any more of that, thanks. Particularly not in the middle of a pandemic
So what exactly would you have him do?
Anyway, do you wish you’d voted for one of the other candidates now Dazh? If so, which one?
RLB might have done a better job at opposing Boris and exposing his eugenicist tendencies but she was still the wrong choice, Nandy is still the out of depth attention seeker she always was. Right now the only stand-out member of the shadow cabinet is Miliband. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him back in the job, possibly before the next election if Starmer doesn't start to show some fire.
Fair point Daz. Why should losing one election be any impediment to standing to lose another?
It appears that when Starmer points out that the government has done things too late, then that works and hits home with voters, but the moment he steps beyond that and goes on the offensive, voters take a very dim view.
It makes sense. With Brexit and Covid, I wouldn't be surprised if the country is politically exhausted. Also, the vaccine Hail Mary has played out well for BoJO (and thankfully for the country), which may end up being the cock up eraser.
So Starmer is doing what all the evidence is pointing too and treading very carefully.
He's being the cautious technocrat that many of us feared he would be, with predictable results. Meanwhile, Johnson will be going full bore with a Keynesian economic recovery, surfing the wave of a successful vaccine rollout.
He’s being the cautious technocrat that many of us feared he would be
Or in another interpretation; He’s being the cautious technocrat that many of us feared hoped he would be
A lot of voters would happily take a bit of cautious technocraty kind of thing after the recent chaos of poulist nationalism
Johnson will be going full bore with a Keynesian economic recovery, surfing the wave of a successful vaccine rollout.
Erm... I think it's a tad early in the day to be making statements like that. Don't you?
Lets see where we are in 6-12 months time.
Just to confirm: You're predicting some Coronovirus-free utopia as Rishi opens the cash floodgates for investment, as the country instantly forgets about all the cock-ups and looks to the sunlit uplands instead?
You can only imagine what further horrors, incompetence, cronyism and corruption the public inquiry will unearth. Thats the time to be doing things, not now.
Got a plan b? Since spoiler alert a public inquiry isnt going to do that.
It will be set up so a)it takes an indefinite amount of time to try and get it into ancient history and b)will have the terms of the inquiry written in a way which limits its potential damage.
The only time you get a properly effective inquiry is when the people in charge arent overly concerned about it because it wont come back and hurt them.
Not a chance it will be properly in for the next election although it might have handily been started with the terms requiring them to look at the bits which went well first.
He’s being the cautious technocrat that many of us feared he would be
Interesting quote from page 2.... aimed at Binners, from Dazh....
I confidently predict in 6 months time when Starmer has proven his doubters correct by being the cautious technocrat that he is you’ll still be banging on about bunkers and 6th formers.
Or in another interpretation; He’s being the cautious technocrat that many of us
fearedhoped he would be
Here's what you said 10 months ago:
Labour should already be setting out a bold vision for post-virus, post-austerity Britain. If anything positive is to come of this, it should be the chance to dispense with the neo-liberal consensus and build a fairer society.
Surely this is labours moment? You’d think.
Perhaps you could make your mind up?
Erm… I think it’s a tad early in the day to be making statements like that. Don’t you?
Lets see where we are in 6-12 months time. You’re predicting some Coronovirus-free utopia as Rishi opens the cash floodgates for investment,
Earth to Binners: the "cash floodgates" are already open.
there is going to be one serious reckoning about how this whole thing was handled. You can only imagine what further horrors, incompetence, cronyism and corruption the public inquiry will unearth. Thats the time to be doing things, not now.
No one will care, most people won't even know it's happening.
People who think a public enquiry will change anything are the same people who need tissues when watching Starmer at PMQs.
Earth to Binners: the “cash floodgates” are already open.
Because they were faced with acsolutely no option other than complete fiscal collapse. If you think that the Tories won't immediately revert to a form of ultra-austerity at the first available opportunity, you need your bumps feeling.
We're in the place we're in now because last summer the governent effectively said "right you lot of shirkers, get your arses back into the office, pronto, and get paying for all this largesse"
No one will care, most people won’t even know it’s happening.
You honestly think nobody is going to care about the highest per-capita death toll in the world, the crony PPE contracts, the shambolic test and trace?
Right now the only stand-out member of the shadow cabinet is Miliband.
I agree... but a step 'backwards' would play right into the hands of the Conservatives, if they do go for the fresh broom approach just before the next election.
I also agree that Starmer is both uninspiring and probably still the best choice from the candidates that stood for leadership, even looking back with hindsight.
As I've said many times before, I'd love him to be PM, he'd perform the job with integrity... but he just isn't going to win an election. His team seem to be focussing on the "back Britain" voters who have only started voting Conservative in the last 5 years, and need to be won over to increase the English Labour seat count at the next election. I see no strategy yet to go beyond that... and here's the rub... perhaps Labour can't. Being focussed on those voters may well mean avoiding saying and doing anything much that would be welcomed by voters like myself. Depressing, but hey.
Being focussed on those voters may well mean avoiding saying and doing anything much that would be welcomed by voters like myself.
Which then begs the question why should voters like you vote for them? If they are aiming for someone completely different.
Here’s what you said 10 months ago:
Labour should already be setting out a bold vision for post-virus, post-austerity Britain. If anything positive is to come of this, it should be the chance to dispense with the neo-liberal consensus and build a fairer society.
Surely this is labours moment? You’d think.
I still think thats the ultimate goal. It has to be. Its what the Labour party should be for, otherwise what's the point. And once we finally get through this, surely most people must be a lot more receptive to that?
But the one thing we can surely all agree on is that back in those more innocent days of lasy spring, absolutely nobody thought that we'd be sat here ten months down the line with 100,000+ dead, an economy in suspended tatters and still so end in sight to any of this?
You think this is the opportune moment to be voicing grand visions? Good luck with that.
Which then begs the question why should voters like you vote for them?
Well, there's their problem in a nutshell. They can't win with left leaning voters alone... there aren't nearly enough. I suspect the next election manifesto won't be nearly as attractive to the likes of me... but they need to find a way to hold onto enough, for want of a better word, "progressive" policies to keep people on side yet not scare away the people they need to attract to win seats. I fully expect plenty of left leaning people to peel off and not vote for them... screaming labels like "Tory Light"... and another Conservative majority.
Because they were faced with acsolutely no option other than complete fiscal collapse. If you think that the Tories won’t immediately revert to a form of ultra-austerity at the first available opportunity, you need your bumps feeling.
We’re in the place we’re in now because last summer the governent effectively said “right you lot of shirkers, get your arses back into the office, pronto, and get paying for all this largesse”
You seem to be completely ignorant of what's actually happening. Right now, the government is pumping billions into green infrastructure, and the major challenge for people like me is being able to spend it quickly enough. Sunak understands perfectly well that the only way to rescue the economy is by investing in it.
Now, have you made your mind up abut whether you want a “bold vision” or a “cautious technocrat”?
I didn't say 'I' wanted a “cautious technocrat”, I said that a lot of voters do.
Oh... you've stealth edited and removed your comment once you'd read what I actually said.
You think this is the opportune moment to be voicing grand visions? Good luck with that.
You're right. What he should do is just say "we agree with the government" and enjoy the fantastic surge in support that will surely follow.
Oh.
If you think that the Tories won’t immediately revert to a form of ultra-austerity at the first available opportunity, you need your bumps feeling.
I presume you missed the news at the weekend that Johnson and Sunak are planning a massive public spending splurge lasting 10 years to boost the post-covid and post-brexit economy? Johnson is a spender, that much is obvious, covid or not. He's not only going to buy off his mates he's going to buy off the public too.
You honestly think nobody is going to care about the highest per-capita death toll in the world, the crony PPE contracts, the shambolic test and trace?
News flash, they've already forgotten about PPE and test and trace, and they don't much care about the death toll. All they see is vaccines and being able to go down the pub again in the summer. It'll be party time and Boris will be the hero with Starmer playing the role of boring party pooper telling the kids not to drink too much.
None of you have yet answered my question as to what exactly on a practical level he should be doing instead, right now?
Come on... you're all clearly political visionaries bursting with good ideas, who'd be 20 points ahead in the polls right now, so instead of just slagging Starmer, lets hear what you think he should be doing instead?
Over to you...
I didn’t say ‘I’ wanted a “cautious technocrat”, I said that a lot of voters do.
Oh… you’ve stealth edited
Deleted because you answered the question upthread.
But seeing as we're reviewing comments from ten months ago, here's another one:
If the events of the last few months have shown anything, its that voters want somebody who looks like they know what they’re doing. An actual leader.
Voters prefer Johnson to Starmer.
You honestly think nobody is going to care about the highest per-capita death toll in the world, the crony PPE contracts, the shambolic test and trace?
Most people don't really follow the news that closely, and what they do see mostly comes from FB friends who think the same. Love him or hate him at least people know who Boris is.
so instead of just slagging Starmer, lets hear what you think he should be doing instead?
Like you did with Corbyn? Full of constructive ideas eh?
I don't know what the answer is but I'm pretty sure it's not 'let's just do a little bit better at the same kind of stuff shall we?'.
Lots of 'progressive' policies actually poll pretty well when not attached to a particular party or leader - why not be bold rather than be beholden to focus groups that still leave you trailing behind the most incompetent government in living memory.
Christ! You lot are so unbelievably cynical. You're honestly suggesting that nobody cares about 100,000+ dead (christ only knows what the final figure will be) as long as they get to go and sit in a pub beer garden by the time the sun comes out?
You’re honestly suggesting that nobody cares about 100,000+ dead
'He couldn't have known how bad it was going to be, nobody did'
'It's a difficult job, I wouldn't have wanted to do it'
'It's sad but we did really well with the vaccines, not like those idiots in the EU'
'I got paid to sit on my arse at home, it was quite nice to spend more time with my family, thanks Rishi'
'Boris might get things wrong but at least he's a real human being with a personality'
etc etc etc
I've heard all of those recently.
You’re honestly suggesting that nobody cares about 100,000+ dead as long as they get to go and sit in a pub beer garden by the time the sun comes out?
The primary thing I am objecting to is your fantasy that a public inquiry will be useful in any sensible timeframe. The only way it could be is if Johnson gets bored of PM/gets the push and decides to burn things down on the way out by not carefully planning the terms of inquiry.
Although on the broader subject it will depend really. If the vaccine program works well then it will be easy to hide all the other failings behind it. Look at the ratings currently and the number of bodies dont seem to be having that great an impact. So why do you think they will in future?
You’re honestly suggesting that nobody cares about 100,000+ dead as long as they get to go and sit in a pub beer garden?
Absolutely. I have no idea why you would think otherwise. Come the summer we'll all be sat in a beer garden celebrating our vaccine enabled freedom. It's not that people don't care, it's just that they don't like facing up to horrible facts. I wouldn't worry though, I'm sure we'll find some mawkish, virtue signalling method to assuage our guilt. The queen will be wheeled out and we'll all get indulge in some first class applauding of our health workers and respectful silences, perhaps even some flowers too, and then we'll go back down the pub.
Christ! You lot are so unbelievably cynical. You’re honestly suggesting that nobody cares about 100,000+ dead (christ only knows what the final figure will be) as long as they get to go and sit in a pub beer garden by the time the sun comes out?
100,000 are dead, the PPE scandal still happened, test and trace still isn't working, borders still a mess, exam fiasco happened etc etc etc etc.
After the vaccine starts really taking effect and we head into the spring do you think Tory voting intention will go up or down?
Well everyone thought Winston Churchill was great during the second world war, but the electorate immediately booted him and the Tory's out once it was over to elect a labour administration, and usher in a period that was probably the most progressive in this countries history with the creation of the NHS, the welfare state etc.
Seeing as this Tory administration perpetually uses the language of war when referring to the pandemic, and Boris constantly makes the comparison between himself and Churchill, that would be somewhat ironic.
But I don't think you're remotely correct in your world-weary cynicism in believing people don't care about these things. They do, but at the moment people have got bigger fish to fry, day-to-day without getting into the party politics.
That doesn't mean that day won't come. My point is that having gone through such a crisis, people will be looking for something better which surely presents an opportunity for the Labour party that it hasn't enjoyed for a long time? The crisis has illustrated what years of austerity have done to the NHS and public services generally and has shown the benefits of a more collective, less selfish attitude to society
Well everyone thought Winston Churchill was great during the second world war, but the electorate immediately booted him and the Tory’s out once it was over to elect a labour administration, and usher in a period that was probably the most progressive in this countries history with the creation of the NHS, the welfare state etc.
Maybe the electorate liked the idea of a Labour party with a bold vision for the country's future. The point about Churchill, which is often forgotten, is that he was deeply unpopular with much of the working class which is why he was kicked out at the first opportunity, having never been voted in to start with. Compare and contrast with Johnson who did very well in securing the working class vote at the last GE.
After the vaccine starts really taking effect and we head into the spring do you think Tory voting intention will go up or down?
Well, quite. We're currently at rock bottom, yet the Tory vote is holding up perfectly well. Unless there's some major scandal with the vaccine rollout I see no reason why it won't increase this year.
so instead of just slagging Starmer, lets hear what you think he should be doing instead?
Go on then, even though I've said many time before. He should be setting out his plans to make real changes to how politics works and how it serves the people. Throwing money at things or tinkering round the edges with talk of 'responsibility' and 'competence' are not enough. People want to know that politicians serve them, and not the tiny few people at the top. In no particular order these are some of the things that could do that:
- Electorial and party funding reform
- Full transparency and accountability of peope in public office.
- Taxing corporations and the rich fairly
- Demolishing the myth of deficits and public debt
- More devolved and decentralised government
- More generous universal benefits
Those are all broad brush things he could talk about now without committing himself to specific policies. If you want people to be less cynical, you have to give them something that inspires them and gives them hope. Instead all we're getting is 'more of the same, but a bit more competent and serious'.
Well everyone thought Winston Churchill was great during the second world war
And the relevance of this to your previous argument?
Even with the bait and switch it doesnt really support your case since Labour had been actively campaigning pretty much throughout the war and had done the big ideas early on with the Beveridge report. They hadnt kept quiet because of the focus groups and just wafted around the edges.
I thoroughly agree with all of that Daz.
My argument here is that when we're through the pandemic a lot more people are going to be receptive to those policies. But we're still slap bang in the middle of a huge national crisis and people don't want to hear it at the moment.
It's 4 years to the next election so theres no shortage of time for these to be advocated. Noe really isn't the time and could well be counter-productive, giving the Torys an easy narrative to attack.
And I still don't think that Starmer is being as ineffectual as his critics on the left are making out
My argument here is that when we’re through the pandemic a lot more people are going to be receptive to those policies. But we’re still slap bang in the middle of a huge national crisis and people don’t want to hear it at the moment.
As dissonance notes, Labour was working on its transformative ideas in the middle of WW2. We all know what happened in 1945.
And I still don’t think that Starmer is being as ineffectual as his critics on the left are making out
That's exactly the kind of myopic support you were jumping all over when Corbyn was leader.
It’s 4 years to the next election
Not it's not, it's more like 2-3, the tories are committed to repealing the fixed term parliaments act. Once that's done it's highly likely there'll be an election before December '24. Assuming covid is largely done by next year and the economic recovery goes well then spring '23 looks entirely plausible, and that's little more than two years.
That’s exactly the kind of myopic support you were jumping all over when Corbyn was leader.
Myopic?
I know you don't like to hear it, but the polls have moved 30 points in labours favour since grandad belatedly shuffled off 10 months ago, having delivered labours worst election result since 1935. This would suggest that they're once again being viewed seriously as a potential government. They clearly weren't viewed as such in December 2019. Far from it.
You regard that as ineffectual? What would be deemed acceptable to you?
You're massively underestimating the absolutely enormous repetitional damage that Corbynism did to the labour party. It was a complete disaster, by any metric! It takes time to remove that stigma. I think he's doing a pretty effective job of it, so far, given the scale of the task. I think theres a lot more to come yet, when the situation allows.
You regard that as ineffectual? What would be deemed acceptable to you?
Being more popular than a serially incompetent and corrupt government which has presided over 100,000 deaths and counting. A low bar, I know.
Myopic?
I know you don’t like to hear it, but the polls have moved 30 points in labours favour since grandad belatedly shuffled off 10 months ago, having delivered labours worst election result since 1935.
Why do you "know" that I don't want to hear it? Is it because you prefer to respond to what you pretend I've written, rather than what I've actually written?
‘He couldn’t have known how bad it was going to be, nobody did’
‘It’s a difficult job, I wouldn’t have wanted to do it’
‘It’s sad but we did really well with the vaccines, not like those idiots in the EU’
‘I got paid to sit on my arse at home, it was quite nice to spend more time with my family, thanks Rishi’
‘Boris might get things wrong but at least he’s a real human being with a personality’etc etc etc
Nail on the head here Grum. I see all the above on FB from people I previously thought rational human beings.
But I don’t think you’re remotely correct in your world-weary cynicism in believing people don’t care about these things.
Pains me to say it binners but I genuinely believe that a good chunk of the population don't care. Don't forget, this is the electorate that voted in brexit based on Farage and others' lies and scaremongering. They then went onto vote for a man who hid in a fridge rather than answer question because he said the right things (with no substance). That same electorate is also agreeing with the shite that grum posted. I almost had a big row with my in-laws over Christmas when they pretty much said the same and wouldn't listen to any arguments. Boris or whoever is in charge will either wave a new shiny thing in a few years or find a new bogeyman for us to unite against and there will be five more Tory years. I like the Labour front bench, I really do, however the electorate seems to favour pantomime politics. Also don't forget the launching of the new Hate News channel to supplement the Daily Hate and the dailyhateonline.com.
And... only rumoured so far, but I would't be surprised... the replacing of OfCom with the Hate Regulator.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/31/johnson-poised-to-appoint-paul-dacre-chair-of-ofcom
The Winston Churchill analogy is relevant in that it shows the historical pragmatism of the UK electorate.
The current Tory party is UKIP In disguise. By the time of the next election they will have reverted to being the conservative party again. There will be a return to the social liberalism of Cameron but not theausterity of Osborne. Neither Boris or Sunak, (his likely successor) have built their respective reputations on fiscal austerity.
They'll throw some coal on the Northern Powerhouse project though so Gideon will retain that smirk on his face.
Will the electorate remember the dead? the PPE scandal? the corruption?.....Yes they will but the major culprits will no longer be at the helm so in the spirit of pragmatism the electorate won't blame Sunak for Boris's failings.
There is very little Starmer, or the Labour party can do at the moment. They have to wait it out, theres no election to be fought yet. Labour can't really have a strategy for re-election as the future is still very uncertain.
For the moment Labour have to sit back a bit and wait for:
"Events dear boy, events"
He couldn’t have known how bad it was going to be, nobody did’
‘It’s a difficult job, I wouldn’t have wanted to do it’
‘It’s sad but we did really well with the vaccines, not like those idiots in the EU’
‘I got paid to sit on my arse at home, it was quite nice to spend more time with my family, thanks Rishi’
‘Boris might get things wrong but at least he’s a real human being with a personality’
Add
I support the government
Every week from the "opposition".
There is very little Starmer, or the Labour party can do at the moment. They have to wait it out, theres no election to be fought yet. Labour can’t really have a strategy for re-election as the future is still very uncertain.
And as Ed Milliband proved, if you publish a manifesto full of quite good ideas at this point, the Tory's will have nicked them all, rebranded them and sold them to the electorate as their own by the time you get to the next election
if you publish a manifesto
No one is suggesting he should publiish a manifesto. All he needs to do is set out a direction of travel. How hard would it be for him to say 'We're going to root out corruption and cronyism at every level so that we don't fill the pockets of millionaires and billionaires when they do a shit job', or 'we believe democratically accountable not-for-profit institutions like the NHS can do a better job than unaccountable corporations'. This stuff is easy, not in the least bit controversial, and something the tories won't want to copy or steal.
Just a thought regarding the UK death count...
The UK has a very high population density in comparison to similarly sized European countries. Also, UK cities are on average 3 times the size of their European counterparts. (UK cities also have much larger populations then most US cities as well).
Given that we know how the virus works, we were always going to be more heavily impacted by Covid than most Western nations. Although I have never really seen this discussed I think the British public knows this intuitively. It's not that the public don't care, they just instinctively knew that we were more vulnerable than most considering The population density / distribution factors.
It’s not that the public don’t care, they just instinctively knew that we were more vulnerable than most considering The population density / distribution factors.
What about being on an island?
You think this is the opportune moment to be voicing grand visions?
There is no better time to do that, and that time is running out.
People are angry, hurt and scared. In a few months time (hopefully) the vaccine will have done it's thing, restrictions will be being eased, we'll be starting to accept a new normal, the initial chaos of Brexit will be forgotten as we work round the changes, the government will be talking up their big recovery plans and the press will be trying to convince people that it wasn't that bad and Boris Got Covid Done.
I want to hear what big plans he has for a fairer society right now. I want to hear what he will do to address the inequalities that Covid and Brexit have highlighted right now. I want to hear how he will start to make a better society for my kids and their kids right now.
He has to start showing that he and the Labour party will be better than Boris and the Tories. Right. Now.
Because so far he has failed as far as this wasted Liberal voting idealist is concerned.
– Electorial and party funding reform
– Full transparency and accountability of people in public office.
– Taxing corporations and the rich fairly
– Demolishing the myth of deficits and public debt
– More devolved and decentralised government
– More generous universal benefits
The average voter doesn't care about any of that and wouldn't even know what you are talking about for most of it.
There would be more interest in more generous benefits as more people will be on benefits and now realise that you can't live on them let alone have a whale of a time as they my have previously believed but that is still a minority.
Did the last tory government get into power with a list of things like yours or did they do it with a 3 word slogan?
The average voter doesn’t care about any of that and wouldn’t even know what you are talking about for most of it.
Then he's got four years to start making them care about stuff like that. Or we are all ****ed forever more.
We all need to be raising the quality of political literacy in this country rather than thinking that it's a lot of hard work and really not worth the bother.
"What about being on an island?"
Fair point, that shiphas long since sailed unfortunately. So whilst you might be morally right, I don't think that factor will play into people's choices come election time.
To extract political capitol from the UK's failure to shut down its borders in January last year Starmer would have had to have been screaming from the rafters that the UK should completely isolate itself from the world for a couple of years. As it was the loudest voice for doing so came from, (albeit belatedly) Pritti Patel!
It would have been an impossible sell to make such a suggestion a year ago, one that only an extraordinarily astute and visionary politician could have gambled on. And Starmer ain't that unfortunately. No shade on him, just facts.
Then he’s got four years
Two years.
Did the last tory government get into power with a list of things like yours or did they do it with a 3 word slogan?
Translated for the average sun reader..
– Electorial and party funding reform / Make your vote count
– Full transparency and accountability of people in public office. / Sack the crooks
– Taxing corporations and the rich fairly / You pay taxes, why shouldn't the rich?
– Demolishing the myth of deficits and public debt / We will never run out of money
– More devolved and decentralised government / Local politicians answerable to local people
– More generous universal benefits / No one should be hungry or homeless
– More devolved and decentralised government / Local politicians answerable to local people
Joking aside... this is policy I can get behind. But Labour have to be very careful... by the next election devolved and decentralised bodies will have more and more responsibility that they will be seen to be failing to deliver... while central government goes back to cutting their funding and removing their decision making powers. Everything will be blamed on local administration, while the UK government bypasses them to give funds to, and award decisions in favour of, their mates and funders.
Dazh, you do know that none of those policies would get you elected, right?
people want govts to live within their means, unlimited spending sounds like a con trick to most folk
they don’t want local accountability as that means they’ll have to get involved, and they don’t want to. (As even they realise if it goes wrong it’ll be their fault) they want politicians to get on with it for them (that’s why they vote so they can blame)
the don’t want more generous welfare ‘cause they “know” it won’t be for them it’ll go to someone who doesn’t deserve it/is on the take
They don’t want high taxes for the rich, because when they get rich, they don’t want to be highly taxed
"Dazh, you do know that none of those policies would get you elected, right"
What politicians say they'll do and what they actually do when they get into power are often two different things. Dazh's proposal won't get Labour elected but if they could get elected on a different manifesto they could implement some of those policies once they got in office.
Once in office it is possible to adjust policy in relation to 'events'. Cameron raised high band taxes (temporarily) in response to the financial crisis, May stole some bits of the previous Labour manifasto and the current government's fiscal targets and overall policy is in tatters, meaningless.
As Binners pointed out, promote fair and reasonable policies too hard and you'll get called a commie by the Tories, whilst they simultaneously steal the policies for themselves.
Just get your arse in office. By any means necessary.
Daily Mash nails it...
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/the-unrepentant-corbynites-guide-to-why-this-is-all-keir-starmers-fault-20210202204906
And to follow that
It'll come across as fakery. Because it is.