he’d be far better off highlighting how the british working class were far ahead of their time in challenging capital and winning concessions like trade union recognition, suffrage for women and working men, better working conditions, the weekend and a whole host of other things which the working class had to fight and suffer for. Anyone think he’ll do that?
too high a risk of Billy Brag setting that to music.
If Keir Starmer insists on going down the vomit-inducing ‘I love my country’ route
You can't have it both ways.
You're the one always banging on about the working classes being a bunch of unconstructed flag-waving Neanderthals, so when the labour party does something to try and win their votes (and patriotism does not automatically equal nationalism or racism, before you start) then you slag him off for that.
With that attitude you've just neatly summed up why the Corbynite left never ever stood the remotest chance of being elected in this country.
Clearly theres a massive chunk of the countries population who's votes are somehow unworthy, sullied and obviously beneath you and your superior, enlightened middle class metropolitan values. Let them take their filthy ballot papers somewhere else
Oh look... they did
Nationalism was a concern for self-determination hence the American Revolution etc and more recently, anti-colonialism/imperialism. Patriotism is about defending the status quo and all the pageantry of conservatism and inequality.
Wrapping himself in the flag is a canny and necessary move by Starmer. They have to reclaim 'patriotism' from the Right even if it's toxicity lead to Brexit. Otherwise the culture war card will forever be deployed by the Right, to devastating effect
It's a necessary first step to becoming electable IMHO although the have to be careful but hopefully their 'metropolitan liberal elite' base will get their heads round it
It's why 'Best for Britain' the pro remain campaign group use their union jack branding. Why should the Right have exclusive dibs on pulling this top trump, pardon the pun, card?
Actually Britain were woefully behind on suffrage for women. NZ was first in 1893. Suffrage was not extended to all women in UK until 1928.
It took a good war and women doing the jobs at home to make real progress.
patriotism is about loving your country.
nationalism is about hating everyone elses.
Arguing for security and fairness is such an example as no-one is campaigning for insecurity and unfairness.
They may not have it in their campaign but the Tory party are very good at delivering insecurity and unfairness, which is his point.
They could tie nationalizing shit with nationalism.
Do we want the french/German/Chinese/yanks profiting off our water/ railways/ energy/ Nhs ?
They may not have it in their campaign but the Tory party are very good at delivering insecurity and unfairness, which is his point.
Nah, it's just a naked grab for votes by referencing values perceived to be held as important by Tory voters. See also "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" and the symbolic adoption of the British bulldog. I don't have a problem with it in and of itself, but as I've said before, at some point he's going to have to outline his vision and support it with a bit more than platitudes.
Do keep up.
He just needs some punchy 3 word slogans
Thats what wins elections nowadays
Do keep up.
He just needs some punchy 3 word slogans
Thats what wins elections nowadays
Ah yes.
Education, education, education.
I’m Not Boris.
Thank god we have binners here to give us the authentic voice of working class labour voters, speaking as a graphic designer who lives in Ramsbottom.
2000th Post Done?
They may not have it in their campaign but the Tory party are very good at delivering insecurity and unfairness, which is his point.
Keep the rats in the sack fighting amongst themselves. That way they are too busy scrabbling over each other to realise that a better idea might be a concerted attack on the sack itself.
Thank god we have binners here to give us the authentic voice of working class labour voters, speaking as a graphic designer who lives in Ramsbottom.
To be fair, the last election was won by what amounts to a semi scripted reality show character with 3 word slogans and a prediliction for vodka on his cornflakes.
And ‘Binners’ is my working class alter-ego I use to post on’t’internet. Graphic Designer seemed like something a poor person would do. A sort of modernist coal miner.
I actually own a grouse shooting moor and live in a huge stately pile. I’m coining it in at the moment 😃
It may be a slow change… but it’s definitely going the right way…
https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1309931542614093826?s=21
I’d say that swinging a -26 point result to a +3 in 6 months is pretty ****ing impressive, but I await my comrades correcting me and informing us all that it’s a betrayal of the socialist future and actually a terrible, terrible thing that the entire labour movement should be absolutely ashamed of
It may be a slow change… but it’s definitely going the right way…
I think it's fine at this stage, but I can well imagine the reaction if the previous leader was "only" managing neck-and-neck with the blond buffoon.
Seeing as he was -26 points down to the blond buffoon by the time grandad finally, belatedly ****ed off, I think that’s a hypothetical that we needn’t concern ourselves with eh, comrade?
QED.
Still talking about Corbyn. It’s hard letting go isn’t it?
Maybe we should think of his departure as ‘Year Zero’?
I'm finding it difficult to keep up: you were flouncing from the thread, then refusing to talk about Corbyn. An impressive number of u-turns that would serve you well in the Tory government.
It’s not that difficult, surely?
6 months ago the Labour Party was dead in the water.
Now it isn’t
Which bit are you struggling with?
You, again, do seem determined to prove my point.
Eh?
There’s a point?
You still here? I thought you were leaving.
Get a room.
Are you not enjoying the homoerotic tension?
I try not too, but it’s quite flattering
You never know. One day he might actually address the subject of the thread instead of just flirting with me 😃
Still here, then. Until the next flounce.
You can message me, you know? You don’t have to do this publicly? It’d spare everyone else having to read it.
The attention/obsession is awfully sweet of you, but I’m happily married and not that way inclined.
“Sisters and brothers
What have we done
We're fighting each other
Instead of the Front
Better get it together
Big trouble to come
And the odds are against us
About twenty to one
But we ain't gonna take it
Ain't gonna take it
They're keeping us under
But we ain't gonna take it no more”
“I don't think I could stand another ten years of this fighting
All this stabbing and wounding - only getting my own back”
- now that’s a tune
Is any one of the usual suspects going to admit that Starmer has already made Labour more electable?
He patently has.
Any attempt to deny this is just wilful sophistry and doublethink.
We need to distinguish between making yourself 'more electable' and having a set of socialist policies to campaign for and deliver.
Considering who is being lined up to take charge of the BBC and Ofcom I’m more concerned about the left being even more stitched up than it is already before worrying about specific policies you want to give the Torys to beat you Over the head with for the next 4 years.
We need to distinguish between making yourself ‘more electable’ and having a set of socialist policies to campaign for and deliver
Why exactly do ‘we’ need to do that?
The Tories won a huge majority at the last election on a ‘manifesto’ that consisted of 3 words.
The Labour Party went into the election manifesto of ‘socialist policies’ as thick as a phone book and suffered its worst election result since 1935
I’d suggest that it’s rather important that ‘we’ might actually learn a few lessons from that. At the moment it looks like ‘we’ have, and the polls are reflecting that
Because making yourself more acceptable to the establishment just means proving that you pose no threat. Sir has moved so far to the right even some centrists are beginning to look radical. He states his 'unconditional support' for zionist apartheid, once elected he reversed Labour policy to back the landlords and not the renters and the bankers against the mortgagees. Do we really want to elect another tory party? Do you really think this man represents your interests?
I’m sorry, but that’s utter cobblers
The left need to get away from this ridiculous idea, once and for all, that making yourself electable means becoming the Tory party, as:
1. It’s complete nonsense
2. It will only lead to the electoral wilderness. The one Grandad marched the party into
Do we really want to elect another tory party?
Sadly, at this point I'd be over the moon with a 'traditional Tory' government of people like Ken Clarke and John Major.
Zionist apartheid?
Christ on a bendybus! Have you heard yourself?
Yeah... that’s right up there with most voters concerns at the moment? People are talking of little else
Banging on about stuff like that may appeal to Red Labour twitter groups, but everyone else simply hears it, thinks immediately of the Daily Mail caricature of the ‘loony’ left, rolls their eyes then votes Tory
As they did in huge numbers in December
Do you really think this man represents your interests?
considerbly more so than the present occupant of number ten, yes
A good analysis, as ever, on Starmers speech, by Andrew Rawnsley in this mornings Observer
Keir Starmer’s praise for Labour’s winners reveals a leader serious about power
Voters' concerns? That was one of his first statements. It clearly is one of his major concerns.
