You just want to flounce for you, don’t you?
No flounce, then? I guess you don't mean what you say.
Yes but we all love those images don't we. May be good to have something that wasn't from the 70's but I suppose when there is only a set of 5 to choose from that is all we can expect.
Change of subject from the weekend banter/petulance...
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/sep/14/bt-broadband-bills-could-reach-100000-for-rural-users
Corbyn's universally derided free broadband policy is looking quite attractive now. I wonder if Starmer has the balls to bring it back? I know it's early to be talking policies, but in the light of covid and this news he could go a long way to reassuring his doubters on the left by supporting this in some form.
The Guardian are reporting that Kier is having to self isolate as someone in his household has symptoms.
Will anyone notice?
Serious question to those who pour scorn on Starmer for not being effective: can you give historical examples of effective opposition?
Serious question to those who pour scorn on Starmer for not being effective: can you give historical examples of effective opposition?
I don't know who's been pouring scorn on Starmer: I think a few of us believe him to be an effective manager but feel that the jury is out in terms of his policy direction. Regarding historical opposition, there's loads of examples, surely. Any opposition forcing a government into calling an election, or reversing a policy decision.
Corbyn’s universally derided free broadband policy is looking quite attractive now. I wonder if Starmer has the balls to bring it back?
Starmer said that he supported existing Labour policy, didn't he? We'll see.
Regarding historical opposition, there’s loads of examples, surely. Any opposition forcing a government into calling an election, or reversing a policy decision.
Didn't the Corbyn opposition force an election? And then delivered a huge Tory majority?
Serious question to those who pour scorn on Starmer for not being effective: can you give historical examples of effective opposition?
Not sure of the relevance of historical examples. We are now in a time of a government visibly not caring (whereas they used to at least pretend) and certainly wouldn't reverse any decision based on opposition, however good the opposition was. Combined with the big majority they have thanks to the last Labour leader.
reassuring his doubters on the left
Who are you referring to here? If I were Keir, I would give up with dreamers like you and wouldn't be trying to reassure you, it is the country that I want to reassure (left or right) with a goal to winning an election with a set of fair policies that are clearly going to be more left than right.
If I were Keir, I would give up with dreamers like you and wouldn’t be trying to reassure you
Well aside from the fact that I'm far from a dreamer (honestly I've a whole bunch of dreamer policies I'd like implememnt but don't often mention them on here as I try to be a pragmatist), I mean the people like me who voted for him after he promised to unify the party and maintain the policy direction. It's all very saying the left can be ignored but if he doesn't want to spend the next 4 years fighting internal battles then it might be a good idea to focus more on his unity promise.
Didn’t the Corbyn opposition force an election? And then delivered a huge Tory majority?
On the surface, yes. But we don't think about it like that. We like to refer to it as 'winning the argument'
In much the same way as Fulham won the match against Arsenal on Saturday.
Didn’t the Corbyn opposition force an election?
Point of order. It wasn't Corbyn who forced an election. He wanted to leave Boris in place with no majority so that they could extract concessions from him on brexit, but the arch-remainer opposition parties had other ideas.
In much the same way as Fulham won the match against Arsenal on Saturday.
There you go again equating football to politics. It's almost as bad a metaphor as comparing a household budget to that of the governments.
There you go again equating football to politics. It’s almost as bad a metaphor as comparing a household budget to that of the governments.
Well.... not really. Both football matches and FPTP general elections are binary. You win, you lose or you draw.
Those are the three options available, There are no other variables. So trying to spin delivering a thumping great majority to your opposition and having your worst result for 85 years as 'winning the argument' is very much in the same ballpark as your average Jose Mourhino post-match interview, where you listen to it while thinking "have we just watched the same match?" 😀
It’s all very saying the left can be ignored but if he doesn’t want to spend the next 4 years fighting internal battles then it might be a good idea to focus more on his unity promise.
Who says he isn't focusing on his unity promise and if I was him I wouldn't be fighting internal battles. I would ensure that I didn't have to by having the correct people in the positions that matter and have visibility. What the low level dinosaurs are up to is not worth spending any time on.
Who says he isn’t focusing on his unity promise
I think his actions so far speak for themselves on this subject.
Didn’t the Corbyn opposition force an election? And then delivered a huge Tory majority?
Arguably he did in 2017. His catastrophic mistake in 2019 was to allow himself to be railroaded into it.
I think his actions so far speak for themselves on this subject.
What actions? Can you give me some specific examples
I can't see anything he's actually done or said that anyone but the most ardent tinfoil-hat-brigade would be remotely bothered about. Especially as by not doing the things you said he was going to do, and doing all the things you said he wouldn't, he's cut the 26 point Tory poll lead that Grandad bequeathed him down to nowt, in under 6 months.
What do you want? The moon on a stick?
Oh... erm...
😀
I can’t see anything he’s actually done or said that anyone but the most ardent tinfoil-hat-brigade would be remotely bothered about.
And therein lies the problem. One side think he's Tony Blair in disguise, the other thinks it can it can dismiss anyone asking any relevant questions about his real intentions as nutters and extremists.
Not sure of the relevance of historical examples. We are now in a time of a government visibly not caring (whereas they used to at least pretend) and certainly wouldn’t reverse any decision based on opposition, however good the opposition was.
This is what I'm getting at. It's very easy to criticise the opposition leader, when you're upset about your party being in opposition, but what would you have him actually do that would actually work?
Safe to assume that Starmer is a more competent and insightful political operator than say, binners 🙂
And therein lies the problem. One side think he’s Tony Blair in disguise, the other thinks it can it can dismiss anyone asking any relevant questions about his real intentions as nutters and extremists.
Maybe thats an advantage, rather than a problem?
Safe to assume that Starmer is a more competent and insightful political operator than say, binners
There are items of furniture that could easily pass that low water mark. I'd have fitted right in Corbyns cabinet with Richard Burgon 😀
I think his actions so far speak for themselves on this subject.
Do they. You are talking about internal in fighting, how do you know what has been done with that. You wouldn't see the actions.
Is that the second tied poll for voting intentions?
Starmer worried about Boris sorting out covid or Christmas might be lost...
Facile.
Is that the second tied poll for voting intentions.
Yes. (Opinium last month.)
How exciting it has become to see Labour level pegging in just two polls against these atrocities.
Is there a Seats projection for that poll?
And, if so, what would it look like excluding Scotland?
How exciting it has become to see Labour level pegging in just two polls against these atrocities.
Maybe we could get a bearded old 70’sthrowback with an allotment to get the Tory’s a 26 point lead back?
That’d be exciting, wouldn’t it?
binners, please...
We're trying to elevate the tone.
Do join in.
Binners, we all know perfectly well that if Corbyn was getting the exact results that Starmer is, you'd be screaming blue murder. Why not give it a rest eh? He's not leader any more. BUT HER EMAILS!
I'd always thought of Boris as a seventies throwback as well, like a bit part actor in a Carry On film. It might have been funny once upon a time to do a Benny Hill skit with footage of Boris sped up to match the frenetic music. Only now it would be more appropriate to slow the music down to a crawl to match his apathetic, turgid lethargishness.
Yes. (Opinium last month.)
How exciting it has become to see Labour level pegging in just two polls against these atrocities.
At the risk of going into Binners mode.
Considering the starting point of the last election they’re actually doing far better at this point than I expected.
But then I also didn’t think the governments handling of the pandemic would lead to some sort of overnight political epiphany. I’ve lived most of my life in Tory heartlands, the mind set of “well, this government is shit but at least they’re not Labour” runs deep.
Can’t say as I’m seeing anyone being “excited” mind you! Who are you perceiving as such?
And, if so, what would it look like excluding Scotland?
Given how low labour are polling in Scotland I doubt there would be any significant difference as labour and tory are only going to get a couple of seats each in Scotland
And, if so, what would it look like excluding Scotland?
Given how low labour are polling in Scotland I doubt there would be any significant difference as labour and tory are only going to get a couple of seats each in Scotland
'A New Leadership' will be abbreviated. It sounds a bit fascist/futurist, but 'Forward to a New Leadership' projects professionalism, electability and a clerical revolution that will get a grip on the voters in 4 years time. That's just what we need in a crisis of health, jobs and housing. I can't wait.
Just saw the Marr interview
Job done in terms of refusing to be drawn on covid and Brexit but clearly evasive and highly polished spin. I can't see how he can play it any other way so good result. But 'im not boris' is a very low bar
When it comes to Brexit might as well just say 'no comment'. He was invited to side with EU on state aid but didn't take the bait
Flashes of irritation reminded me of Corbyn, but that could just've been Marr needling him
It’s pretty obvious that the Tory’s only line of attack with Starmer is to try and draw him into the flag-waving culture war they’ve been stoking.
I can imagine that It’s causing some pretty serious frustration in Cummings ‘Mission Control’ that he still refuses to take the bait.
He’s rightly not getting drawn on Brexit itself, but criticising Johnson’s previously ‘oven ready’ deal, and the present shambles.
Come ‘No Deal’ in January, things are going to look very different, and with Boris and chums in full ownership of the ensuing chaos, Labour can then take a different approach
Anyone watching Annelise Dodds? I see now why Kier was so keen on her, she makes him look very exciting and charismatic. Labour need to do better than this for the second most important post in the shadow cabinet.
Come ‘No Deal’ in January, things are going to look very different, and with Boris and chums in full ownership of the ensuing chaos, Labour can then take a different approach
even with a deal there will still be a backlog & queues of lorries by mid Jan
(and now it looks like Johnsons WA reneging was just a horrendously misjudged attempt at leverage- I think johnson will be desperate to do a deal)
Labour need to do better than this for the second most important post in the shadow cabinet.
Is she any good at the chancellor work as opposed to acting exciting?
Would have thought that would be more important. We are currently suffering from having an exciting and charismatic person in charge. Turns out doesnt always overlap with competence.
Labour need to do better than this for the second most important post in the shadow cabinet.
Sober, serious man trying to build an air of competence appoints Sober, serious woman trying to build an air of competence
Maybe she could come down a zipwire, waving some flags?
Or have a Special Advisor come up with some catchy three word slogans?
He’s rightly not getting drawn on Brexit itself, but criticising Johnson’s previously ‘oven ready’ deal, and the present shambles.
I absolutely agree that the Labour leader shouldn't be talking about Brexit itself, and am pleased that you eventually reached the same conclusion.
Maybe she could come down a zipwire, waving some flags?
He doesn't need gimmicks, but he does need people in his shadow cabinet who people recognise and know a little about what they stand for. This goes for shadow chancellor more than any other post. I take an unhealthy interest in politics and yet I have absolutely no idea where Dodds stands on the pressing issues of the day. Assuming Boris isn't packed off to retirement she's going to be up against Sunak in the runup to the next election which quite frankly is going to be a no-contest.
Did you listen to his speech then? A weird one because obviously it's not really a conference speech, so difficult to gauge
One thing that did seem to be stressed was the need for a reality intrusion in certain elements within the party and an end to the 'we won the argument' tosh
That can only be a good thing
I listened but it didn't really tell me anything that could inform my vote.
I wasn't expecting it to though and don't see why it ever would 4 years out of the next election.
It did tell me that Labour are universally crap at getting elected though. 3 election winners in 75 years? Didn't realise it was that bad.
I also think, that with the clear anti-nationalist agenda, they will struggle to see anything but a minority Labour government in the near future. They won't give the SNP their independence vote and doubt they will get a coalition majority without it.
