Two…He lost two elections.
He was slandered relentlessly for two elections - I still have people on social media call him traitor whilst beseeching Priti Patel (who was actually sacked for holding unsanctioned meetings with a foreign power) to break international and human rights law further by sinking refugee boats.
Imagine the possibilities of someone in the top job who posessed real compassion and didn’t have a single narcissistic impulse?
All the more reason why he wasn't any good. Much as I'd like a principled person(or persons) to be in Government, the current political climate dictates against this, and all the compassion and principle in the world isn't going to change it from the outside, particularly with 1: the tories, 2: FPTP, and 3: the media. The trick here is that you got to to get in through the door before you can effect change.
Those three things amongst others are powerful adversaries, and also its 'centrists'(for want of a better word') on this thread who I think are being complacent on believing that the tory party with Boris is going to destroy itself in the eyes of the electorate, when it comes to power, they have a habit of pulling themselves together just long enough to achieve it.
Expanding on Binners Napoleon quote, Napoleon knew when to put the boot in...does Starmer and Labour have that ability? Is he biding his time? Being factually correct is all fine and dandy, but he is going to have to inject a damn sight more passion about his vision for the country to win, I'm not sure he can do this...yet.
Much as I’d like a principled person(or persons) to be in Government, the current political climate dictates against this
Well I guess that's where I differ with most people. I don't want to accept that nothing can be done about our corrupt and venal political system. Instead of treating people with principles with suspicion and derision, you'd think we'd be electing them to power. Instead of accepting that there's nothing we can do to stop narcissists (and no I don't think Corbyn comes anywhere close to being a narcissist) and megalomaniacs gaining power, we should be voting and organising against them. It's a weird cognitive dissonance where we teach our kids to be honest, generous and compassionate, yet vote for potential leaders who display the very opposite qualities because 'that's the way it is'. I'll never understand it.
We have a principled person in power in Scotland. Very popular as well
We have a principled person in power in Scotland.
Well aside from my doubts about her motivations on brexit I'd be inclined to agree. She is something of an outlier in UK politics though. On the subject of Corbyn being a narcissist - which I think is pretty preposterous given he's spent his entire life campaigning for people at the sharp end of society's failings - I was thinking about which PMs in recent history were 'decent' people. John Major was the only one I could think of. Harold Wilson too probably from what I know.
I would still maintain that Corbyn would have been a good PM. Imagine the possibilities of someone in the top job who posessed real compassion and didn’t have a single narcissistic impulse?
Not a narcissist?
Are you serious?
The man who turned the Labour Party into a (non) personality cult where the faithful must constantly affirm their loyalty, and would pile in with threats and abuse to anyone who dare criticise the glorious leader, safely ensconced in his bunker, surrounded by his unquestioning nodding dogs.
We’ve recently found out that by the end, even John MacDonnel had been cast out of the inner circle, deemed insufficiently worshipful of the great man.
Him and Johnson are two cheeks of the same arse. Both were absolutely appalling candidates for PM, completely unfit for the role.
It’s a damning indictment of how totally broken our political system is that a choice between these two incompetent clowns was the best the two-party system could offer up
Literally, would you like your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?
At least we’ve at now got rid of one of them
Not a narcissist?
Are you serious?
Absolutely. As a sense check I asked Mrs Daz who is much cleverer than me (Grammar school education and all sorts) and not at all interested labour party politics and definitely not a massive fan of Corbyn. She pulled a funny face and said no, of course Jeremy Corbyn isn't a narcissist.
Him and Johnson are two cheeks of the same arse.
I then told her this and she laughed incredulously and said the very concept of comparing Corbyn to Trump was ridiculous. That's good enough for me. Honestly it really is very silly. By any definition you can find (and I've checked quite a few) Corbyn is not a narcissist. He may be imperfect, stubborn and annoyingly stoic in his views which he's not changed in 40 years, and probably a little paranoid in the face of non-stop abuse and smearing of his character, but he's definitely not a narcissist. Go look it up and stop reading the tabloid newspapers.
He may be imperfect, stubborn and annoyingly stoic in his views which he’s not changed in 40 years, and probably a little paranoid in the face of non-stop abuse and smearing of his character, but he’s definitely not a narcissist.
Maybe. But he couldn't win an election against a preposterous alcoholic who ran into a fridge to avoid questions. That was, um, sort of like.....his job.
He refused to address the single biggest purely political issue in the last forty years because he was at odds with his own party. As a result he was easy to caricature as a bit of a dildo.
Character assassinations of Corbyn are, frankly, irrelevant now.
His job was to be elected. He failed against a 'novelty' prime minister who would be more at home in panto. This is his political epitaph.
And here we have the paradox, reason. UK politicos fighting like drowning kittens in a sack, that's already been chucked into the river, apart from the nom-doms, who are in power, waiting for their January 1st, 2021 paycheck.
After that, they will be gone baby gone.
Maybe. But he couldn’t win an election against a preposterous alcoholic who ran into a fridge to avoid questions. That was, um, sort of like…..his job.
Oh, I agree that he was very far from an effective leader. But Binners' character assassination is as ever about a million miles from the mark. It's almost as though he says it for the purpose of eliciting a reaction.
Evening comrade.
This is a thread about Starmer. I know that there are still the hopelessly deluded out there who still need to romanticise Magic Grandad but at this point only 2 facts matter
1. Corbyn lost 2 elections. The second time he handed an absolutely massive majority to a hopeless, opportunist buffoon and delivered labours worse defeat since 1935, including seats lost to the Tory’s that have been labour since the dawn of time.
2. He bequeathed, on finally shuffling off to the allotment (3 years too late) a 26 point poll lead to said hopeless, opportunist buffoon. Keir Starmer has reduced that to zero in under 6 months.
So let’s just consign then beardy messiah to the dustbin of failure where he belongs, eh, and look towards the Labour Party being an actual political party again and not some completely unelectable 6th form protest group?
This is a thread about Starmer. I know that there are still the hopelessly deluded out there who still need to romanticise Magic Grandad but at this point only 2 facts matter
The problem with relying on your tedious cut and paste is that it bears no relation to the quote you're replying to. Now, probably best if you wind your neck in before you're given another week off.
Yawn sixth form yawn.
Any other MarkFrancois isms today binbins?
Comrade yep heard Francois use that
Bunker yep
Can you say Venezuela for us all?
On blimey! The committees arrived...
Corbyn is the past; there is no point re-visiting what he did or didn't do, what he could or should have said or done.
The next GE is more than 4 years away.
The gov are stuffing up everything they do and talk about; it is obvious and undeniable - even some of the most rabid pro-johnson media are publicly questioning him and his assembly of clowns.
The Napoleon example has been much referred to so I won't go there.
At present Starmer needs to do nothing more than maintain a sharp focus on the most recent and glaring examples of incompetence and inconsistency; highlight johnson's clear inability to lead, to govern, to answer direct questions, to demonstrate he has any understanding or mastery of facts, to prove he is not a congenital liar, to prove that his word is emphatically not his bond.
CV19 and Brexit are the subjects concerning most of the population; both are providing multiple examples of johnson's incompetence and inadequacy.
To quote Bill Clinton 'It's the economy, stupid'.
Keep a narrow focus on that and avoidable CV19 related deaths until it becomes clear the public interest has shifted; then, move with it.
A light seasoning of broken promises and untrustworthy commitments will add a little flavour.
It's nothing to do with what labour would do; it's all about showing that johnson and his acolytes are not fit to govern - by association, that encompasses the tory party.
Starmer is clearly highly competent; I have no doubt that much work is being done behind the scenes to develop and test policies which don't need to be made public yet.
More PMQs on Wednesday; another chance for johnson to convince that he has just a grain of competence hidden away somewhere in his lumpen persona - another chance for him to fail to convince.
The problem with relying on your tedious cut and paste is that it bears no relation to the quote you’re replying to.
On blimey! The committees arrived…
QED.
ransos - are you a mod or just pretending to be one? Thought you needed to be a subscriber/full member to be a mod, not a freeloader free member...since 2009.
ctk - what are you on about? Maybe take a bit more water with it.
ransos – are you a mod or just pretending to be one?
Maybe take a bit more water with it.
Quoting yourself? Is that like referring to oneself in the third person? 😂
Anything to contribute to actual subject in hand, ie the two facts I stated and the present leader of the Labour Party? The one the threads actually about, comrade?
Starmer needs to be disruptive, the Labour Party needs to be disruptive... its the only tool they have currently and with Boris they have someone who can't cope with disruptive attacks. Most of the Tory cabinet with the exception of Sunak cant cope qith disruptive questions, although Sunak has a big problem un as much he seems to address the question directly qhich is fine while your giving money away.. however i hope once those tables are turned that Starmer can utilise Sunaks answering style against him, i dont think Rishi can wing it like Blair?
Quoting yourself? Is that like referring to oneself in the third person? 😂
You obviously think you've scored some kind of point. Well done you.
Anything to contribute to actual subject in hand, ie the two facts I stated and the present leader of the Labour Party? The one the threads actually about, comrade?
You seemed to be keen on discussing Corbyn. Perhaps you should make your mind up.
I thought it was pretty clear from the statements I made that I’m hoping we’ll never ever have to discuss Grandad ever again.
Just to repeat for you.... when he belatedly departed, 3 years too late, having lost 2 elections, he left a massive Tory majority and a poll lead of 26 points.
Quite some achievement when you consider who we’re talking about here... Boris Johnson and a cabinet of complete political pygmies and utter incompetents.
Keir Starmer has reduced that lead to nothing in less than 6 months.
So he’s doing something right. Something that’s been woefully lacking in the Labour Party for quite some time
Anything to say about that?
I thought it was pretty clear from the statements I made that I’m hoping we’ll never ever have to discuss Grandad ever again.
Ah, so your strategy for not discussing Corbyn is to discuss him. Gotcha.
Nothing to say about that then, comrade?
As expected.
Gotcha.
Just one question for you...
Are you actually Jeremy Corbyn? He’s not had much to do of late, but you know.... you’d fit right in here 😃
Nothing to say about that then, comrade?
As expected.
You'd like me to compare Starmer with Corbyn, just after you said you didn't want to discuss Corbyn? It's almost as though you're not commenting in good faith.
It’d just be nice to hear you comment on something else other than me, if only for the novelty.
You’ve started to sound like all the other voices in my head.
That’s not a good place to be, maaaan 😉
It’d just be nice to hear you comment on something else other than me, if only for the novelty.
If you want to encourage debate, then it's probably best if you stop slagging off the people you claim to want to hear from.
No idea what this has to do with Starmer but I wouldn’t be so sure of Sturgeon rushing to join the EU as an independent nation. She’ll be all powerful if Scotland leaves the UK, I doubt she’ll want to immediately hand all that over to the EU bureaucrats
Jeez do you have any idea how the EU (or international politics) works or was that sarcasm?
If you want to encourage debate, then it’s probably best if you stop slagging off the people you claim to want to hear from.
We’re on a thread about Keir Starmer. You can start a thread about me if you like. That’s be fun. Shall we do that?
In the meantime, maybe you’d care to give us the benefit of your wisdom regarding the six months Keir Starmers been in the job since he took over from that other bloke.
Personally I think he’s doing a great job and seeing the Labour Party returning as a proper political force makes me a lot happier than the last 4 wasted years of pious, self-indulgent, sanctimonious, impotent virtue-signalling, that has lead us all into the absolutely hopeless state this country is presently in.
Personally I think he’s doing a great job and seeing the Labour Party returning as a proper political force makes me a lot happier than the last 4 wasted years of pious, self-indulgent, sanctimonious, impotent virtue-signalling
Can't help yourself, can you?
We still talking about me?
It’s all very flattering, but should we try talking about something else?
Maybe Keir Starmer? Seeing as that’s what the threads meant to be about.
I’ll start another thread about me if you like?
I hate to break into you but the conversation isn't entirely positive. Still, up to you: try being a teensy bit nicer and you might get the engagement you claim to want.
So.... this Keir Starmer bloke?
Any thoughts?
You’re looking great tonight by the way. Have you lost weight? Loving the new haircut....
Get a room you two, the sexual tension is unbearable...
Isn’t it?
*flutters eyelashes*
the sexual tension is
unbearabletiresome…
You’re just jealous 😛
binners, bit of friendly advice - why don't you continue posting in the Corbyn thread to give you an outlet for your hilarious Python images that you can post for the 1,000th time.
I also have an image of you walking down the street randoly shouting out "comrades", "6th formers","bunker" which I hope is not true.
Anyway, agree on Starmer and think he is doing fine and another 4 years of him acting as he is will help when it comes to election time (along with a small number of very clear policies, continuously repeated so the average voter can even understand what the party is about)
He still needs a voice coach.
So it seems like we are all agreed (although some just can't bring themselves to admit it openly).
Starmer is doing a better job than Corbyn. That job being to make his party electable to enough voters to make it a possibility.
The silence on this actual point is deafening from many posters on here.
So it seems like we are all agreed (although some just can’t bring themselves to admit it openly).
Starmer is doing a better job than Corbyn. That job being to make his party electable to enough voters to make it a possibility.
The silence on this actual point is deafening from many posters on here.
Well I don't know Danny: it doesn't feel like there's much room for those of us who don't believe that Corbyn is the devil or that Starmer is the messiah. Or the reverse!
It's pretty obvious that Starmer is a far more effective leader in the managerial sense, but sooner or later, he will have to set out what he actually stands for. Current opinion polls and PMQs may have the usual suspects jizzing their trousers, but are going to mean sod all at the next election.
but sooner or later, he will have to set out what he actually stands for
Stories are coming out that the Tories are trying to needle him into laying out specifics.
If that is what they want, give them the opposite. For now, just pointing at the fly-tipped sofa that leads them and saying "Not like that" is good enough.
Well I don’t know Danny: it doesn’t feel like there’s much room for those of us who don’t believe that Corbyn is the devil or that Starmer is the messiah. Or the reverse!
Youre as bad as binners at times
Most offering criticism of Corbyn just think he’s a bit crap, not the Devil.
Ive not seen anyone talk about Starmer as if he’s the Messiah either.
Current opinion polls and PMQs may have the usual suspects jizzing their trousers, but are going to mean sod all at the next election.
It is certainly a step in the right direction, though.
its 4 years until the next election. Starmer has time and bringing the polls to parity ( with Johnsons and the rest of the incompetent rabbles help) is a good step.
Firstly he gains a reputation for competence and being on top of his brief and saying what he means. I think many of you who do not follow Scottish politics do not realise how powerful this is. Sturgeon has done it and Davidson engineering a return to relevance in Scotland for the tories by doing so ( and by harnessing the unionist vote) Labour in Scotland have not and look where its taken them.
He also needs to make the tories own their mess - again he is doing this - work in progress but again the drip drip drip is hving its effect.
Once he has established these things then its time to set out a broad vision. Once the crises are beyond the acute stage is the time to do this. I expect some big set piece speeches from him in a year or two doing exactly this
The last step is a specific policy platform much closer to the next election
the time for specific policies is years away. doing it now gives the tories propaganda arm of the press time to hone attacks. At the moment they have nothing to attack Starmer on. thus his reputation is only enhanced
