According to my pal who is a nurse wiorking in Spain that is not so. they still have a surplus of trained nurses. I suspect what that is is they are not employing enough not that they do not train enough. there is a peculiarity in Spanish nurse training in that the trainees can legally do much of a staff nurses job - so its cheaper to train nurses and then not give them jobs but just train another batch.
more nursing professionals employed
is the key word. They have a surplus of unemployed trained nurses. they don't have vacancies, they just don't emply enough of them. Its not unavailablity of nurses, its lack of posts
According to this article Spain has one of the very worse nursing personal to inhabitant ratio in Europe, far worse than the UK :
Your solution? Make it as easy as possible for Spanish nurses to work in the UK.
And yet you don't want to extend that to nurses from, say Ghana, because according to you that would be "unethical".
Let’s be brutally honest here, no one in England really gives a f*** about Scotland.
hmm with half my family Scottish, I do...Personally I care less about your opinions though, to be honest 😉
JeZ
Cue a list of Starmer explainers and apologists, and folk saying the EU is the answer whilst simultaneously supporting the Starmer position.
The man has no excuse against this backdrop to offer better than two flags and a balanced budget.
Lack of new ideas is killing me currently.
There are so many areas you could improve that would rev up your electorate. Just throw a bloody dart.
The capacity of the economy died by handing it to the service sector rather than examining the real needs of society.
(I mean look at the EV infrastructure it's a total mess of not enough charge points and reliability. I got an Ev 5 years ago and it's a shoddy state of affairs. This is gaping hole of transformation that could employ a tonne of people.)
ERnie
Spain has more trained nurses than it has jobs for - the opposite position to the UK where we have more jobs than nurses
What those reports you are quoting are showing is not a shortage of trained nurses but a short fall in the employment of those nurses. The spanish set up trains more nurses than they have jobs for. Maybe they could and should employ more of them. Different question
The spanish set up trains more nurses than they have jobs for.
And yet Spain has a far less ratio of nursing professionals than the UK.
Which suggests that training nurses is cheaper than employing fully trained nurses. It is clear that Spain has a severe shortage of nurses, the nurse's professional organisation makes that point.
So if training nurses is not a huge financial burden for Spain why isn't the same for the UK.
Btw I haven't seen any evidence of these unemployed Spanish nurses that you speak of, can you provide any? Apart from what your mate says.
You directly compare Spanish nurses vs UK as the workload differs.
Going from conversations with my sister, who lives there, IIRC, a lot of tasks that UK nursing staff carry out, the family are expected to do in Spain. My Sis' father in law is currently in hospital so her husband & his siblings are doing shifts to be with & help care for him.
They also have a 2 tier system- a basic level of care that is paid by your std tax and you can contribute a bit more if you want higher care. Don't think its via insurance co's but by opt in tax, like NI AVCs here
So if training nurses is not a huge financial burden for Spain why isn’t the same for the UK.
Because spanish traineee nurses can do much of the work of staff nurses and are low paid. ( unlike the UK where trainees are students and cannot do the work of staff nurses)so its cheaper for spanish health service to continually train new staff and run on trainees than it is to employ fully trained nurses
Its not that spain is short of fully trained nurses - it has a excess. It has ( according to that stuff you posted) a shortfall in the number of posts for the nurses. Its precisely the opposite situation to the UK
google nurse unemplyment
its not just one pal BTW =- I know a number of spanish, catalan and basque nurses. all came to the UK to work for the same reasons. No jobs for the qualified nurses in spain but plenty here
More career progression in the UK as well, we have senior nurses taking on responsibilities that doctors have in other countries. Look at the healthcare workforce as a whole… Spain have more doctors than we do (by population).
Cue a list of Starmer explainers and apologists, and folk saying the EU is the answer whilst simultaneously supporting the Starmer position.
The man has no excuse against this backdrop to offer better than two flags and a balanced budget.
I think most people are arguing that his stance on the EU is wrong, its only the die hard lexiters & faragites arguing against it!- personally I think itll be another few years b4 labour can openly support rejoining
the plan to renationalise rail franchises is a good one and Id definitely want to see it rolled out to other utilities
As for 'balancing the books' theres a lot of leeway in Reeves plan, only borrowing to invest, gives them the ability to borrow as much as they want as long as they label the destination investment (pretty much all government spending is just that) and she still says that 'exceptional circumstances' allow them to do that
(I mean look at the EV infrastructure it’s a total mess of not enough charge points and reliability. I got an Ev 5 years ago and it’s a shoddy state of affairs. This is gaping hole of transformation that could employ a tonne of people.)
like this?
https://www.motorfinanceonline.com/news/labour-party-ev-jobs-proposal/
I think most people are arguing that his stance on the EU is wrong
No it's only TJ and yourself arguing that. Most other people - and almost everyone outside this forum and the FBPE twitter threads - think he's doing exactly the right thing, and that is confirmed in the polls.
its only the die hard lexiters & faragites arguing against it!
Yawn. Yes of course, anyone who wants to move on from the past is a die hard lexiteer or faragist. 🙄 I'll repeat again, I would vote remain again today and would vote to rejoin tomorrow given the chance. But I'm not going to spend any time worrying or getting annoyed about something that will probably never happen in my lifetime. There are more important and immediate things to be concerned about.
Most other people – and almost everyone outside this forum and the FBPE twitter threads
Not in Scotland nor amongst the folk I know all of whom are lefties. all think Starmer is wrong on constitution and the EU.
One of the consequences for Starmer in this is he has basically given up on the 50 scottish seats ( is that tactical knowing the SNP are highly unlikely to vote down a labour government?)
20 odd years ago labour had 50 scottish seats. Now it has one.
Yes of course, anyone who wants to move on from the past is a die hard lexiteer or faragist.
Well what is the explanation for refusing to even consider the single most bemeficial policy he could take - one that would win labour many seats? the SNP in Scotland are ripe for losing seats but labour refuses to give scottish votors a reason to vote labour. Its not an unpopular policy - the majority think it right to rejoin
One of the consequences for Starmer in this is he has basically given up on the 50 scottish seats
Latest polls suggest a ~200 overall majority for Labour. They don't need any Scottish seats.
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1608798581615648770?s=20&t=pOpLX8K1BswGFDLzfqAfog
"A Keir Starmer government might be more radical than you think"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/04/keir-starmer-government-labour-leader
the plan to renationalise rail franchises is a good one and Id definitely want to see it rolled out to other utilities
Contrary to popular belief, and reports in the useless Media, the Rail Franchises are all now Government owned. Most have been since 2020. The incumbent Companies were kept on (mostly) in place to run the managing of the services when they lost, or gave up, their franchise, the Government pay them a set fee to do this, they have no extra fee from the ticket sales or extra profits made on the service. The Dept. for Transport run the railways, and do it pretty badly. The current rail strikes would not be going on now if the Individual Franchises were still here, they would all negotiate with their Staff, and a compromise woudl be met. The DfT couldnt run a tap properly, never mind a very complex railway.
This is the same DfT who ordered electric trains with a diesel back up engine for the longest eectric line in the Country, that had previously run with a dedicated fleet of electric trains for the last 25 years. The extra weight of the diesel engines added a 10% power cost when being used, added complexity, and cost while servicing/running and the lease cost was 3 times the cost of the old Stock, when it was expected to be less than double.And we’re stuck with them for 25 years.
Agreed about other utilities, though I cannot see how that could be done, as i cannot see anyone in Labour or Cons. who have the willpower, and intellect to make.a scheme like that work.
What also annoys me about this current useless Governemt is their lack of action on power. Thye’ve said there will be new nuclear, mayeb 15 years, nothing in the meantime. There needs to be a much better plan to make the UK self sufficient.
I don't understand why the scum don't call an election right now .
All their shit would become labour's shit
and come the next election walk right back in.
Labour need to keep Scotland sweet as they will need all the votes they can at the later elections.
Labour need to keep Scotland sweet as they will need all the votes they can at the later elections.
maybe tell them that? At the moment labour policy seems to be designed to annoy the scots electorate independence minded or not
Labour need to keep Scotland sweet as they will need all the votes they can at the later elections.
I'm guessing labour's strategy in Scotland is get in power first, then deliver some stuff to Scotland in the form of more money and devolution, then make the case that Scotland doesn't need independence and/or EU membership and instead all it needs is a labour govt to look after its interests. TJ says Scots want to be in the EU above all else, I think under a transformational labour govt that would be much less true.
dazh - they tried that once and reneged. fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me
Labour have made it clear over a number of years that their policy towards Scotland is " know your place and do as you are told"
Nothing a labour government can do will stop the desire for the EU or independence except marginally. You have to remember that labours behaviour in Scotland over the last 20 years has been horrendous even to creating pacts with the tories to keep the SNP out and the broken promises are long remembered
Labour and tory are now seen as "two cheeks of the same arse"
There is a danger of blaming Labour for the lack of progress on further devolution while they haven’t been in office. But it’s true, people in Scotland were promised that a NO vote would result in a very different relationship and status for Scotland within the UK and Europe more widely than what they have been allowed to have by the UK government since.
Plus the nonsense from Nandy. Plus the refusal of Labour to speak to the SNP. Plus the labour / tory anti SNP pact that saved May and led to brexit, Plus the refusal to even talk about getting vcloser to the EU etc etc
Nandys quotes were utterly awful Basically threatening extra judicial imprisonment for any scots politician who supported an unofficial referendum and a police crackdown on any pro independence demos
Plus the nonsense from Nandy.
As if anyone gives two shits about something Lisa Nandy has said! Don't get me wrong, Labour have a lot of work to do in Scotland to regain trust and it will take time. Thankfully due to their current poll standing in England and the likelihood of a massive majority that's exactly what they will have. If labour needed SNP support or scottish seats to get rid of the tories you might have a point, but they don't. Labour's poll lead puts the SNP in a very difficult and weak position, so I can see why you dislike them so much.
Labour are ****ed in Scotland, especially with Starmer for a leader as he’s been very vocal in calling out any possibility of independence. That’s it keir, keep telling us what we can’t have.
Labour’s poll lead puts the SNP in a very difficult and weak position, so I can see why you dislike them so much.
Weird answer. I don't vote SNP and never have. I was a lifelong labour voter until they behaved so badly in Scotland and acted so strongly against the interests of the country with their only policy being the bain principle - SNP baaaaaaaaaaad.And then allied ythemselves with the tories.
SNP look likely to take almost all if not all Scottish seats so will be in a very strong position
Nandys speech was widely reported as was her attempt to row back which was " what I meant was we need to show the scots electorate that by following social democratic policies we can improve the lot of scotland" which is equal nonsense seeing as the SNP are to the left of labour
Nandy was ( still is?} on the front bench but you say no one listens to her. Weird.
Starmer for a leader as he’s been very vocal in calling out any possibility of independence.
For several extremely good reasons. First Labour are an establishment party, and the establishment doesn't want to see Scotland go for obvious reasons. Much as I'd like them to be less wedded to the establishment, we all saw what happens when they threaten the status quo.
Second they are a democratic party, and there was a referendum on Scottish independence very recently with a definitive result. For the same reasons as they have to respect the brexit vote, they have to abide by the Scottish vote, and we all saw what happened when they didn't do that in 2019.
Thirdly because they have rightly concluded that it would be very bad for Scotland. Labour do not have much support in Scotland right now but they haven't given up on it and they don't want to see it damaged if it left the UK.
And then allied ythemselves with the tories.
Which is extremely ironic as there's nothing Sturgeon would like more than the tories winning the next election. That's reason enough to treat the SNP with suspicion.
Really Dazh? Really?There is so much that is wrong with that post its hard to know where to start
but they haven’t given up on it
Actually they have. there are multiple straightforward ways to improve labours standing in Scotland but they will not take it. they have given up completely on Scotland and are irrelevant now here
As for the idea Sturgeon would prefer a Tory government - nonsense
Perhaps you could have a look at scottish politics and gain some understanding before you make such definitive pronouncements which are so divorced from reality
Piece in the gruaniad today where Starmer is stating more privatisation.
Starmer will also risk the anger of some of his MPs by speaking warmly about the idea of public-private partnerships, promising “a new approach to the power of government [that is] more relaxed about bringing in the expertise of public and private, business and union, town and city”.
Starmer apparently not getting his big cheque book out. Dope. Just the right signal to send out that in a time of disintegrating state services. (Apparently there will be capacity for private-public ventures though.)
The idiocy and incompetence, and lack of benevolence in these leaders is beyond belief.
A crippled nation and basically no one wants to fix anything - but the BoE is happily passing income over to asset owners.
It's startling to me that both Sunak and Starmer believe that things will get better without out actually fixing anything.
Why is the solution to a failed free-market economy - more hands-off right wing thinking?
Piece in the gruaniad today where Starmer is stating more privatisation.
Banging head against wall material.
I love how he both is not getting his big cheque book out expecting the private sector to somehow magically have the funds to function, but not the state.
Bone-headed.
This is the logic of Streeting too.
If I'm voting for a government to replace the Tories' lack of investment I certainly want them to open up the big cheque book, and I want them to tell the truth.
Point of order: it's not even a metaphorical cheque book - the BoE just marks up accounts to spend. Every time.
Reeves just popped up to talk garbage about Labour"s fully costed spending plans citing Corbyn's plans as un-costed. (They technically were costed even if that's not how it works - in double entry accounting terms.)
These people are so blatantly talking nonsense.
She also has no plans for wealth tax. So letting people with wealth keep all the wealth?
And at the same getting the economy growing again. All counter-intuitive talk that doesn't stand scrutiny.
Labour simply can't hold the position that they are going to fix things solely whilst a)relying on real terms contracting private sector growth b)fully costed spending bullshit via abolishing non-dom status.
I'll wait and see the full speech, but from what's being reported this morning I'm not seeing Labour offering what the country needs.
Which is a disappointment, and a lost opportunity.
Still, anyone but Tory, let's not let perfect get in the way of "less shit" 🙄
Actually they have. there are multiple straightforward ways to improve labours standing in Scotland but they will not take it. they have given up completely on Scotland and are irrelevant now here
Like it or not elections that aren't fought over a single issue are generally* won in the centerground. The SNP wins in Scotland because they have both the pro independence vote and the left.
Labor isn't pro independence, none of the big 3 parties are, so I don't know why you keep banging on about it. Parties aren't individually democratic, they put forward their opinion/beliefs/manifesto, and people vote on it. A hegemony of independence parties would be just as bad. That said they obviously moderate their positions to reflect voters in order to win elections and do some good, even if they can't do it all.
Which leaves their left/right balance, trying to out-lefty the SNP to win a handful of Scottish seats isn't going to work politically as it would just alienate the centrists that are currently giving them the projected 200+ seat majority.
If you really wanted to see a truly democratic independence movement there needs to be a Scottish Independence party on the right, then you could actually judge the left/right vote split as well as the leave/remain.
*there's exceptions but they're exceptions.
"Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be a Tory scumbag."
Labour in Scotland could recover ( especially given the SP are vulnerable politically) but it needs a major change of stance. Not to pro independence but to a positive vision for Scotland. Divorce the scots party from the English one and allow them to create policy that actually works for Scotland and stop just automatically opposing the SNP and stop the alliance with the tories
produce a positive and workable proposal on constitutional affairs.
When Sarwar first came in he made good noises on this but clearly was slapped down by starmer and had to shut up and toe the line
Now we are back to the only scottish labour policy is SNP baaaaaaad and working with the tories to block the SNP on councils is abhorrent
You need to note I am not an SNP voter. I was a lifelong labour voter until labour in Scotland allied itself with the tories and set up a pact with them. labour working with the tories to oppose another social democratic party is wrong and in doing so they have squandered any chance of holding the SNP to account as they are now seen as "two cheeks of the same arse"
SNP are politically vulnerable and a decent organised independent from westminster scottish labour could easily take many seats off them with the right policies - which does not have to include independence.
fully costed spending plans citing Corbyn’s plans as un-costed
Both the last election manifestos were costed. In 2019 though, a series of extra policies were thrown in without timelines or costs explained. That will not be happening at the next election... voters do not share your enthusiasm for declarations of just spending money and worrying about it later (even though that's exactly what every government does).
But the answer to 12 years of crippling austerity is not more austerity.
That might work for them in Holyrood, but then how would that work in Westminster, those Scottish Labor MP's couldn't vote through a Kings Speech based on the manifesto their English, Welsh and Irish counterparts were elected on.
Then you've just got coalition government and 5 years of the SNP attacking them for being the incumbent Labour leaders lap dogs (much like the electorate turned on Nick and the Lib Dems).
That will not be happening at the next election… voters do not share your enthusiasm for declarations of just spending money and worrying about it later (even though that’s exactly what every government does).
Nonsense. For a start unemployment is reflection of government spending. We are probably closer to 7-8% unemployment. That in pure accounting terms means they haven't spent enough.
So voters prefer higher bills then and a terrible NHS because of a balance sheet?
There's is no worrying about spending money later. You make the decision before and it's enacted legally through parliament.
Your argument has totally collapsed unless your position is to accept the things will happily deteriorate from here on in.
Do you intend to keep misrepresenting what is good for society by way of supporting Starmer for his every regressive move?
but then how would that work in Westminster, those Scottish Labor MP’s couldn’t vote through a Kings Speech based on the manifesto their English, Welsh and Irish counterparts were elected on.
Why not? You don't need to be in the same party to vote for a kings speech. The alternative is to do as labour have done and completely turn their backs on Scotland giving the SNP a free run.
Even without the divorce from Westminster Scottish labour could do so much better by stopping being wreckers and being positive not negative. As for the alliance with the tories - thats just a pure gift to the SNP. I cannot fthom how anyone left leaning could go in to coalition with the tories. Indeed on Edinburgh council two labour councillors refused to vote for the tory / lavbour coalition and where kicked out of the party for refusing to do a deal with the tories
Where is a single positive policy from labour that works for Scotland?
But the answer to 12 years of crippling austerity is not more austerity.
Depends on who is asking the question and what they want in return.
Lets see if his new way of governing will actually involve anything useful.
But the answer to 12 years of crippling austerity is not more austerity.
It is for centrists because they keep banging their head against a wall over tax and spend.
They some how magically believe that reducing the *debt* there is more money to spend. They have no answer for funding things because it simply doesn't exist in their world hence Rachel Reeves is going for fiscal responsibility over a balanced economy.
They believe the private sector can generate endless growth to pay tax bills - and that is exactly the same as the Tory position. And the Tory ideology has done what?
It couldn't be more back to front.
Private sector growth follows government spending.
Just remember negative growth before COVID - but massive government spend to get us through, and keep the economy ticking over.
They didn't draw the cash from the private sector because it simply doesn't work that way, and wasn't there.
It's all the damn evidence you need.
Thus if the chequebook is closed due to some household accounting mythology, can you tell me where the money will come from to create Labour's booming economy?