Sir! Keir! Starmer!

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Now a non-denominational winterfest is precisely what Sir Keir would approve of.

Has anyone asked Starmer if Mary had a cervix? And are we right to assume that when Jesus returns for the Second Coming that he/she will still identify with his/her birth gender.

We know Keir Starmer believes that the next James Bond should be a woman, whatever being a woman means, but what are Sir Keir's views on the above? I think we should be told.

Nonsense. Does this sound right-wing?

Your point is lost on me.

He talks one way and acts another. Always been the same.

You’re all looking for problems that aren’t there

And you're making excuses for problems that clearly are.

A right leaning Labour party is not going to solve the problems either.

I've no idea where you get this from.

What’s it like, being you?

Play nice Binners.

What’s it like, being you?

You put the same line to me about 3 years ago.

And I will respond the same:

Bald, bad back, and acid-reflux.

Although the back and the stomach are better these days.

Simple low ball insults are a waste of everyone's time. Though I don't mind something delivered with vim and vigour.

Back on to Labour's film: *Consultants = business*

When has a consultant ever done anything other than suck money out of the system whilst delivering anything of value?

If Labour want to court business with any sort of gravity they need to be talking to people like me who have managed to keep a small business afloat for the last 30 years in an ex-coalfield.

Not bloody consultants.

@scotroutes you know as well as I do if he came out and said he'd work with the SNP or just didn't say he wouldn't he'd be dead before he ever got to the start line. People don't understand coalitions here. Don't frighten the herd.

His answer to the coalition question should be simple.

In 2010 the conservatives entered a coalition of austerity to attack the working people of the country for the benefit of the rich and powerful. In 2017 the conservatives again entered into a deal with a fringe party to wreck havoc on the uk economy and bring the northern Ireland peace agreement close to collapse. It is the conservatives who cannot be trusted.

We will do everything we can to stop this conservative government from continuing its war on the working people of great Britain, to stop the conservative extremists from attacking the nurses and carers and all the other front line staff that they provided with hollow praise and claps during the pandemic and then kicked to the ground when they needed more than patronising words and applause. We will do everything we can to stop the conservatives from transferring the nations wealth to their already rich friends with dodgy deals and VIP lanes, and use that money to build a future for everyone.

Don’t frighten the herd.

That is the number one things he has to achieve and he is achieving it very well. Of course that means he can't possibly try and do anything bold but the theory would be get into power using his strategy (which is working) and then start to do the good stuff we would hope he wants to do but in reality will be just a bit less bad stuff in comparison to tories.

Consultants = business

Consultants - borrow your watch and then tell you the time.

I've only ever really known consultants to be used to supposedly discover things about an organisation then recommend changes - but these changes are almost always detrimental to staff in some way. What the organisation senior management are really doing is paying someone else to recommend the unpopular changes they want to make themselves. Or to sort out a mess following a botched merger - again with the required changes being detrimental to employees.

90% of the time senior management employ consultants because they don't have the balls to do stuff themselves. No wonder those lower down the chain often close ranks when consultants are sniffing about.

That is private companies. Public sector tend to employ minister's mates as consultants for no real reason other than to siphon some money off. Very much like a mosquito, or a leech, sometimes like a tapeworm.

MSP gets it imo, this isn't 2010, the situation is very different today to what it was 12 years ago. You can't come to the same conclusions for a very different situation.

Today support for the Tories has collapsed to levels unknown in living memory. For several months now their share of the vote has been almost always below 30%, with the Labour lead constantly in double figures.

Changing leaders twice hasn't helped the Tories regain their popularity, in fact they are even less popular now than they were two leaders ago

It is clear that the situation is currently very different for the Tories to what it was in 2010. Twelve years ago Labour had been in government for 13 years, by the time of the next general election the Tories will have been in government for 14 years.

There is little doubt that the overwhelming majority of voters do not want another Tory government, unlike 12 years ago they have had enough of Tory governments. A fact which most Tory MPs seem to have little problem recognising.

For Labour to publicly announce under the current situation that they are willing to work with other parties to guarantee the removal of the Tories from government is highly unlikely to cause a voter backlash which results in voters rushing to support a now deeply unpopular Tory Party.

The only thing that can save the Tories now is an economic miracle which results in low prices/cost of living and allows them to pump millions into the NHS and other public services, including transport.

The possibility of all that happening within the next two years is clearly zero, the very best the Tories can hope for is to minimise what will be a catastrophic result next general election.

Having said that Starmer has no need to talk about coalitions with other parties, Labour, and the public, have every reason to believe that Labour could form a majority government after the next general election. Every poll in the last few months has suggested so.

Talking about forming a coalition with the SNP would not benefit Labour. It would suggest that Labour lack the confidence that they have sufficient support to form a government, which doesn't appear to be the case. Furthermore it would boost the perceived importance of the SNP in Westminster.

I reckon Starmer is right not to talk about a Labour coalition government but only because he doesn't need to and it would undermine Labour's currently very strong position.

The possibility of all that happening within the next two years is clearly zero, the very best the Tories can hope for is to minimise what will be a catastrophic result next general election

Then Labour could offer some ideas now for fixing various excremental Tory choices?

If there's no way the Tories will pull it back then let's see something better than poor attempts to court lame versions of business?

Just say the magic words: huge public investment.

https://news.sky.com/story/is-dramatic-fall-in-votes-cast-a-bad-sign-for-labours-general-election-aspirations-12769079

This is particularly good news for Labour:

Labour has cause to celebrate not just the victory but also its manner. All seven of the remaining candidates lost their deposits.

In fact, the Lib Dems came fourth behind the Greens and only nine votes ahead of the Reform UK candidate.

What I don't understand is why the article makes such an issue about low turnout. This was a by-election in the busy runup to Christmas, in subzero temperatures, in a seat that Labour were 100% certain to win, which whatever the result would still leave the Tories with a huge majority in Westminster. An exceptionally low turnout is hardly surprising.

What is a genuine issue of interest imo though is the issue of Tory voters abstaining. One of the reasons that Labour has had such huge leads in opinion polls in the last few months is that many 2019 former Tory voters are simply claiming to be undecided. Opinium polls make adjustments based on the probability that a percentage will return to the Tories when the general election eventually comes. It means that Opinium polls tend to give Labour much smaller leads than other pollsters although still comfortable leads suggesting Labour majorities.

If there’s no way the Tories will pull it back then let’s see something better than poor attempts to court lame versions of business?

Starmer doesn't need to do that to become Prime Minister. He just needs to point out that he isn't, officially at least, not a Tory politician.

Providing a radical alternative to failed Tory policies is unnecessary hard work which might cause all sorts of complications. Especially if the Tories have nothing better to offer.

The man wants to become Prime Minister, not change the world.

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1606566247294017536?t=aHjzWl1hH7IJjFjRA-w-PQ&s=19

Flag, Ukraine, Jesus.

Is this the King's speech or the leader of a left-wing party?

The aesthetics of that backdrop are terrible.

Put the Tree further back and lose the curtains and flag. Also Starmer is slightly to the right there rather than in the centre.

Reclaiming the flag has been an obvious part of Labour’s plan for years now. If that’s not aimed at you, shrug it off as background noise. Others need the reassurance that Labour isn’t anti-British because of the nonsense that our foreign owned press pump out to try and paint them as exactly that. And I have no idea why a leader of a left wing party should avoid mention of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, it is the big event of 2022. Ukraine can count on the UK whoever wins the next election, left or right leaning. I hope the same is true across Europe.

All the things you have mentioned are deliberately and cynically offered up here.

I can see straight through them.

You know a solid message about poverty, homelessness etc wouldn't go amiss rather than tactically avoiding all the downsides of the market place.

Neither you nor I can change the situation in Ukraine but we can push for less aggressive economic western values. Things that we can change.

Just hitting several right-baiting notes is clearly the aim.

Let's wait for Sunak's message and see how different it is?

(I can't wait for Starmer to be in power he's going to have a job unwinding all this right leaning commentary.)

People seeing the flag and immediately thinking “right wing” is exactly what needs countering. It’s not “right-baiting”, it is about removing that false choice between your country and a left leaning government. It is not anti-British to vote Labour… a great many people in the UK still think that it is… that the left hate Britain. It’s nonsense, but so are a lot of the political “truths” that our foreign owned press have embedded in the UK. And what’s your problem with mention of Ukraine? Do you think that a left leaning government should/would remove the UK’s support for a population resisting invasion? Or just that a potential PM shouldn’t mention it in an end of year address?

He has no intention of unwinding all that rightwing commentary.

I see you edited your post after I replied to it Rone. Oh well. Some welcome extra nuance there, and I agree with your additional comment about what was missing as regards people suffering here in the UK.

that the left hate Britain.

🙋‍♂️ I hate Britain. Pretty sure most of my lefty mates do too.

I see you edited your post after I replied to it Rone. Oh well. Some welcome extra nuance there, and I agree with your additional comment about what was missing as regards people suffering here in the UK.

Not intentionally just my usual sloppy phone language probably needed tweaking!

😉

How about calling the Tories unpatriotic for selling all our assets to foreign businesses?

No need to out flag shag them ffs

**** optics.

Reclaiming the flag has been an obvious part of Labour’s plan for years now.

When you say years do you mean 2?

Well, we’re about to enter 2023, and the election drubbing was 2019… call it two years if you want. Feels like longer.

How about calling the Tories unpatriotic for selling all our assets to foreign businesses?

Absolutely.

One of my most painful arguments.

Patriotism never seems to start and end with investing in one's own community, people and resources. You know, like bottom up economics might actually work?

Patriotism shouldn't be defined by a flag. It should be the way you treat your people, especially the vulnerable.

I'm seeing very little of that from Labour.

He has no intention of unwinding all that rightwing commentary.

I don't think he has either.

Those that think he's just doing this to gain power are mistaken.

To keep power they will have to turn up the volume on the right-wing bad cover version. Because, everyone is so terrified of progressive ideas and solutions these days it appears.

Patriotism never seems to start and end with investing in one’s own community, people and resources.

Well Margaret Thatcher, who is still much revered by the Tories, famously said that there was no such thing as society only individuals.

If you don't believe in society how are you going to believe in the nation?

And you can't be patriotic if you have no sense of community or the common good. The Tories definitely lack any sort of understanding of both those virtues.

Well Margaret Thatcher, who is still much revered by the Tories, famously said that there was no such thing as society only individuals.

If you don’t believe in society how are you going to believe in the nation?

Thatcher was so utterly terrible and wrong on so many things (there is no such thing as government money for instance only tax payers - ugh) that history should be less kind to her than it is.

I mean how easy a model is it to start the wholesale strip of public assets, sell them off and claim you have invented a market when the state put it there in the first place? And then revile the state.

At best she was a capitalist con-woman at worse a despicable human being.

The fact we seemed to have learned bugger all since her demise and current leaders still tip-toe in her shadow is an intellectual and political embarrassment.0

Well Margaret Thatcher, who is still much revered by the Tories, famously said that there was no such thing as society only individuals

You know I never really got that statement. Society is simply made up of individuals that use the same roads, hospitals, streets and shops.

We have collective responsibilities otherwise nothing would function.

It's official, ChatGPT says Keir Starmer is not a tory. 🙂 Merry xmas.

Is Keir Starmer a closet tory?

There is no evidence to suggest that Keir Starmer, a British politician who is the leader of the Labour Party, is secretly a member of the Conservative Party. Starmer has been a member of the Labour Party for many years and has consistently supported and advocated for the party's policies and values. It is not uncommon for politicians to have disagreements or differences of opinion within their own party, but it is inaccurate to suggest that Starmer is secretly a member of the Conservative Party.

Are his policies more like the tories or the labour party?

Keir Starmer has consistently supported and advocated for policies that align with the values and principles of the Labour Party. As the leader of the Labour Party, he has outlined a number of policy positions that are consistent with the party's traditional focus on social justice, equality, and the welfare state. Some of the key policy areas that Starmer has focused on include increasing funding for public services such as the National Health Service (NHS), addressing the climate crisis, and supporting workers and small businesses. These policy positions are consistent with the Labour Party's traditional values and are not typically associated with the policies of the Conservative Party.

But what about his position on the nurses' strike?

It is important to note that Keir Starmer has not taken a public position on a specific nurses' strike. It is not uncommon for politicians to avoid taking a position on specific industrial actions, as they may be seen as trying to interfere in the negotiations between the parties involved. However, as the leader of the Labour Party, Starmer has generally supported the rights of workers to engage in industrial action as a means of seeking fair treatment and better working conditions. He has also called for increased funding for the National Health Service (NHS) and for better pay and conditions for healthcare workers, including nurses. It is likely that he would support efforts to improve the working conditions and pay of nurses, but it is not accurate to suggest that he has taken a specific position on a specific nurses' strike.

https://twitter.com/premnsikka/status/1609513735340675074?t=0m3UBoVGW6TaW08HUhEWVQ&s=19

Finding this all a bit interesting. Not to take sides at all but given no major political party agrees - how come these polls don't seem to reflect the this.

Thoughts? (Though I completely get not opening the wound up again for another few years. It's perhaps easy to run a poll but reality is way more complex.)

Labour and tories are too scared of the rightwing press and of losing those brexit voting swing voters to say the unsayable - that brexit is a disaster and we need to go back cap in hand.

Note SNP policy on this is very different.  a large part of their popularity IMO

Labour and tories are too scared of the rightwing press and of losing those brexit voting swing voters to say the unsayable

Labour need to get into power first and fix the more important crises such as energy bills, the NHS and social care. Once they've done that they can start talking about our relationship with The EU again. Any discussion about the EU only distracts from other more pressing problems, and Farage et al are already pushing the narrative that pro-EU centrist liberals are more bothered about EU membership than having a functioning health service.

Dazh - cart before horse.  the ability to improve those services is to a huge extent reliant on reentering the EU.  Rejoining is the one key thing that will actually make a differnce

the ability to improve those services is to a huge extent reliant on reentering the EU.

Sorry but this is nonsense. The crises in the NHS and social care are the simple result of a lack of investment and the total absence of political will to improve them. Yes, we will need immigrant workers to fill the immediate skills gap, but that doesnt require EU membership. If you're seriously suggesting that we can't fix the NHS until we rejoin the EU then all you're doing is handing Farage and his mates their next attack lines.

What I am saying is that not rejoining the EU makes all your aspirations much much harder.   Crashing economy, balance of payments, loss of tax revenue, ;lack of EU nurses etc etc

The EU nurses will not come back under visa schemes.  Only under FOM

Dazh – cart before horse. the ability to improve those services is to a huge extent reliant on reentering the EU. Rejoining is the one key thing that will actually make a differnce

Simply not the case.

The funding for anything starts with your government.

Crashing economy, balance of payments, loss of tax revenue, ;lack of EU nurses etc etc

All fixable with a currency issue government like the UK has.

Lack of nurses maybe but it's still linked to central government training /funding.

EU is a part of the puzzle but we don't need to be reliant on them for government spend and fixing domestic problems.

A reminder that we still had austerity whilst in the EU.

Yes - and if the government finances are stuffed raising money is harder and more expensive.  See The truss budget!  Brexit is an economic disaster and without economic recovery all the things you want to do become very much more difficult and there will be no significant economic recovery outside the EU - instead the economic situation of the UK will continue to get worse.

Refusing to countenance rejoining the EU in any form is setting off with both hands tied behind your back.

Yes – and if the government finances are stuffed raising money is harder and more expensive. See The truss budget!

Look I don't want to insult but the government doesn't need to raise money.

It's the monopoly issuer of the £.

It doesn't work how you are alluding to.

The truss budget is an example of the market dictating the way the government works when in effect the government/BoE fixed and can fix anything like that. The truss budget whilst being out of control didn't tank the economy. It just revealed the mess that is a pension system built on a hedging and risky market.

We could simply have a better pension system that doesn't react like this.

All money used to buy bonds is previous money spent by the government into existence.

Don't kid yourself about this.

However, the government of the day does needs to do heavy lifting to fix things. The EU may be part of this somewhere but not for revenue.

Of course it does.  Stop with your fantasy economics

Rejoining the EU is the key to stopping our economic decline.  Stopping our economic decline is the key to improving public services

I agree that governments can create money but there are limits to doing so without devaluing the currency / driving inflation.

your idea that a government can infinitely create money is pure fantasy