I took the Gramsci reference from the article. Terminology is a shorthand for allocating ideas and of course puts people off. It's also used to obfuscate and prove elite status like Johnson and his classical allusions. The role of an organic intellectual was to translate complex analyses into accessible language to help bring about change, so Gramsci and Daz agree!
I live in Rishi Sunaks constituency, yes i am the only communist in the village 🙂
Last week a mail shot from Rishi landed on my door mat. It did not include the following words "Tory, Conservative" or any form of Tory party branding and all of the twitter, facebook refs etc were "Rishi"
It is obvious that he is distancing himself from Boris and the rest of the Tory cabinet and copying the approach that Blair took in the 90s.
I think Rishi is aiming to be in Boris's job before the economic pain really sets in and he has transferred that bag of shit to some other Tory minister.
I have seen Rishi in my local gastro pub and heard him discussing with a member of staff how many times he was in the press last month (this was before his chancellor job)
He is smart and very ambitious, he has unlimited sums of family money behind him. He can easily outsmart Boris and the ERG, however like Boris it is not clear what he wants to do if anything if he gets to be PM. He is very similar to Blair when he was younger.
The Tory faithful will vote for him regardless of his ethnicity.
He has also given the farming community a significant back hander that has not been in the press, if you can demonstrate a drop in revenue for the same period last year you got a £10k grant.
Dazh,
Yep, that was funny. Stuck in the 20th Century, a complete anachronism that flies in the face of reality. But part of the problem is that we haven't yet moved on from the last Century with regards our thinking. Everything is a re-tread of 20th Century ideologies. Neo Liberalism, New Labour, Post Modernism, Neo Marxism, Neo Conservatism.
Everything is a New, Neo, Post something or other. We have to get our heads round the idea that that these old ideologies just don't have the answers for the connected, technologically driven world we find ourselves facing.
We're stuck in a world which we think is driven by ideology. We look at current events and see them through the prism of Orwells' 1984 when in fact we are entering a brave new world. Aldous Huxley posited that the coming world would be shaped by technology and human beings relationship to it rather than ideology.
There has yet to be any 21st Century thinking. We might start to see it emerge next year, I feel certain new figures will emerge from this chaos that try to make sense of the world in terms that don't rely on trotting the same old 20th Century cliches.
The phrase Working class is meaningless. As is the phrase Marxism. Come the next election half the world's population won't have even been born in the 20th Century.
In the meantime, as somebody has already said, the best Starmer could do is to get on telly a bit more.
The phrase Working class is meaningless. As is the phrase Marxism.
My word, a postmodernist!
There's a good few on here who articulate very meaningfully on the working class experience on redundancy, debt, short hours, housing, food and sadly, more to come.
Quite right Bill, there's quite a few on here who like to gasslight using their working class credentials.
If the working class still exist as a political entity or voting block they have switched over to Boris and they now identify themselves along cultural (Nationalistic) lines. And that working class experience you describe is an experience that isn't alien to many middle class people.
The class distinctions of yore aren't as applicable anymore in the gig economy. The middle classes are shrinking and their fortunes are more closely aligned with those you describe as working class than they were in the last century. The more we pit the working classes against the middle classes the better it will be for Boris and chums.
I tell you one thing, the salt of the earth Northern Working class massive turning out to vote for Boris has absolved me of any lingering middle class guilt I might have had.
Grinding out the working class narrative will only serve the Tories.
And that working class experience you describe is an experience that isn’t alien to many middle class people.
Lets be honest, many people who regard themselves as middle class are anything but. Owning an audi does not make you middle class. The whole class debate is very boring though. I'm not sure it's irrelevent but one thing I will agree with Mason on is the division along the lines of those in stable salaried jobs versus gig workers and the self employed. The third group are those who don't need to work as they can fall back on income derived from their wealth and the rent it generates. The rentier economy is where labour should be focusing it's efforts.
Grinding out the working class narrative will only serve the Tories.
It will as long as the working class hold on to the view that the labour party abandoned them under Blair. It did, and now that Boris has captured them with his dog-whistle identity politics it's almost impossible for labour to claim them back because that would involve them jumping on the racism/immigration is bad bandwagon. Andy Burnham tried that and look what happened to him.
You knows it oldmanmtb, the Tory faithfull would vote for Rishi regardless of his ethnicity. Don't think he's in Cummings or Johnstones pocket either.
When Javid resigned on principle (hold that thought for a minute, a current Tory who actually acted out of principle) the consensus was that Sunak was a stooge. Covid conspired to thrust him from and centre as the most competent and reassuring figure in Government. Likeable even. My first thoughts when I saw him commanding the podium were 'Boris isn't going to like this'
It could all go tits up and it probably will but Sunak is the most Blair like figure in Parliament.
On the flip side don't count Javid out either. In resigning he can say he put Parliament and due process before party and self interest, never mind that he's reportedly the most Ayn Randy of the lot of them! He's the least damaged goods in the Conservative party at the minute and he's Covid free.
Crazy I know but you could see a party leadership run-off between Sunak and Javid.
I wouldn't vote for either. I'd vote for Starmer but I'd much rather see either of the aforementioned potential candidates lead the country than the current incumbents and I feel a good portion of the non Tory voting public would too. Either of them would be a formidable appointment for Starmer.
Starmer still rising, but the party isn’t…
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1291717368192925696?s=21
He's making a good impression. In the long term that has to be a good thing.
I know but you could see a party leadership run-off between Sunak and Javid.
Quite possibly. When Brosis runs out of steam or the backers stop backing him because they've Got Brexit Done and no longer need him.
Sunak will need to keep his nose clean, which could prove tricky as part of the Covid Cabinet.
Just for clarification, your class is determined (irrespective of how you identify) by whether you sell your labour or you own or control capital with which you employ labour. So 'middle class' workers are workers like 'working class' workers. These categories are not very illuminating and have their origin in the development of the RG classification of occupations in the early C20th (which was based on reactionary and moralistic judgements). They were wrong then but sadly their errors survive.
Just for clarification, your class is determined (irrespective of how you identify) by whether you sell your labour or you own or control capital with which you employ labour.
Determined by whom? The Precariat may very well fit your description, but so do permanently contracted homeowners.
Well he's made up 26 points
But Johnson still has a 40% base
& As long as he keeps waffling on about the proms & Rule Britannia , they'll keep on backing him
Does Starmer really want to sink to the level of the lowest to win them over?
LibDems will be at 4% or lower by the end of the year, thanks to their choice of leader, and Labour will be a few points higher than the Tories without anyone having to give up on Johnson. Next year? That’s when Johnson will lose his shine.
RS, not 'determined by whom' but where you stand in the process of production. RG 3N put white collar clerical workers above 3M skilled manual electricians, bricklayers and plumbers. They would have had less skill and training but were regarded as 'superior' to the morass of manual workers. Owning a home, unless you're a landlord, should not be included in your 'wealth' as it is a long-term consumer durable and you can't use it to 'make money' and by including it makes the distribution of wealth seem more equal than it is. Class is determined by what you do not what you own or how you might like to see yourself, didn't 'Mrs Bucket' explore this area of status and stratification on the telly? Most people are not 'class conscious' in that they do not see this relationship and imagine class is determined by your accent, net curtains and the labels on your clothes or car. As leader of the loyal opposition, Sir obviously enjoys the pageantry and symbolism of inequality and he is rewarded for it accordingly.
Class is determined by what you do not what you own or how you might like to see yourself,
Again, determined by whom? Your definition is reductionist to the point of uselessness.
Anyway , the Starmtrooper has gained my vote, Mrs zip’s and my parent’s.
That’s the important bit.
Your relationship to selling or buying labour power is what determines your class ie do you own and/or control the means of production or do you sell your labour power to the owners of capital?
It might be reductionist in that it gets to the heart of the matter and doesn't consider status or ideology but it's how the system works. Well-paid 'middle class' mortgaged workers with shiny cars and shoes will also find themselves done over when it suits the management.
Your relationship to selling or buying labour power is what determines your class
You're doing it again. Class definitions are not inscribed on tablets of stone, and I suggest that historical definitions are less than useful for describing contemporary society.
All well and good if in that history we've seen a transformation of class relations in capitalist society. If it happened, I didn't notice. Contemporary society is much more unequal than it was in Marx's time but people can be conveniently distracted by gender, ethnicity, region, status, football clubs, sex, drugs, rock'n'roll, and the disaster of capitalism happily rumbles on and profits from it.
LOLZ
Johnson attempted to turn the tables, suddenly suggesting the Labour leader had somehow been sympathetic to the IRA because he had worked under Jeremy Corbyn. “This is a leader of the opposition who supported an IRA-condoning politician,” said Johnson, to the bemusement of MPs on all sides of the house.An angry Starmer pointed out he had in fact spent five years of his legal career prosecuting IRA terrorists and working with the intelligence services to bring terrorists to justice. Despite Hoyle’s request for Johnson to apologise he refused to do so.
A Labour source said: “If Boris Johnson wants to have a debate with Keir about past careers then bring it on. While Keir was a human rights lawyer or director of public prosecutions Johnson was being sacked for lying.”
A senior Tory MP said: “It is the issue of competence that we worry about against Starmer.”
Mega LOLZ.
I bet it is - having someone competent on the other side of the house appears to have Johnson shitting himself.
having someone competent on the other side of the house appears to have Johnson shitting himself
That was always certain.
That was always certain.
Competent at what? I see no evidence of anything other than this bloke that turns up on time. The lack of passion and useful offense towards the Tories is mind-blowing. He's playing the long game the centrists screech...
Besides - Boris is carrying the can and apart from one poll (which wasn't that great) seems to be doing okay in the public eye. Once Boris has done his number 10 squat - he will move on anyway.
Really don't know where Labour are in this shambles they should be tearing into the economic lack of policy from Tories which is about to fall apart. It's an easy goal. But actually they can't really attack the Tories because their own economic policy is not clear either.
Magic Starmer.
Competent at what?
Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.
Competence at everything he's set out to achieve? Rare quality in a politician. Especially compared to the current incompetent twonk in number ten who has failed upwards at everything he's ever done
I’m sorry but I’m not one of these people who thinks that sitting back and waiting for this car crash government to possibly implode is what leading a strong opposition is about. I know what he was in the past, I know he seems articulate and has a certain level of intelligence hence his former profession. I still don’t know what drives him, where he wants the party to go etc. He is devoid of character for me and unfortunately that is very important for the electorate as a whole.
Competence is a key thing for politicians. Look at Sturgeon. She appears to be truthfull and competent and that's the foundation for her and the SNPs popularity. It's a slow burner but it has a huge effect. Even staunch unionists have respect for her.
The same will happen with Starmer. The comparison with the Tory incompetence and lies will have its effect. We already see it happening and although slow it's a powerful and long lasting effect
He is devoid of character for me and unfortunately that is very important for the electorate as a whole.
Not important to me… evidence led rather than ego led policy would be a breath of fresh air in number ten. But as I said well before he even entered the leadership contest… he would make a great PM… he would have the intelligence to handle the brief, and would care enough to do the job to the best of his considerable abilities… but he will never get the chance to prove it… he does not have the charisma to win in a first past the post system. I’d love him to be PM… but it just won’t happen, sadly.
I agree but it’s not the world we live in unfortunately.
Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.
Johnson is digging his own hole at a pace right now. No need for Starmer to commit to much and why hand the Tories and their journo mates anything to get a finger hold in?
Johnson won the election by going AWOL, avoiding scrutiny and not being Jeremy Corbyn. All Starmer has to do is hold up Johnson's oafish policies, attitude, and shower of dildos in the 'top team' to a bit of scrutiny. Get the preposterous bullshit in the public consciousness.
Starmer doesn't need to be proactive in any way with the rickety Bullshit Bus hurtling from disaster to disaster.
He's not doing himself any favours in the visibility stakes.
At least with Boris, we know he's hiding in the fridge. No idea where Starmer's gone.
Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way
Do you really believe that?
“Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way”
With that thought process do Labour even deserve to win the next election with Starmer?
It’s easy when in opposition to just highlight when somebody does something wrong especially Boris. That’s not enough for me. That’s why Labour will lose again with that attitude. People need to know what he’s about, his passions, what is he trying to achieve, a long term vision. He’s not going to win just because he isn’t Boris.
To paraphrase Napoleon (yet again)...
Never interrupt your enemy when they’re in the process of massively ****ing things up.
In the same way that Johnson won an election by basically not being Jeremy Corbyn, it seems that the reduction of his 26 point poll lead to zero in less than a year would indicate the ‘not being Boris Johnson’ clause is now very much in play
Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way
Do you really believe that?
Given the 80 seat majority, what more do we think he could do, other than call out the constant stream of bullshit and corruption?
Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.
That's rather generous. Current performances suggest the PM would struggle to find both arse cheeks in a well lit room.
The record defeat of Labour at the last effectively removed any meaningful opposition.
Theres no amount of stamping your feet and saying evil Tories that’s going to make a difference.
Do you really believe that?
Right now, yes. Absolutely.
Why give Johnson and the right wing gutter press (which includes the Telegraph nowadays) anything they can use in return? Anything they can twist.
For now, it really is a case of sitting back and letting Johnson keep digging his own political grave. That was what the 'bring it on' soundbite was all about. Let an increasingly desperate fraud like Johnson make the running. If he goes for a personal attack (which he will because he hasn't got anything else) just smack his fat arse back with any of the innumerable examples where Johnson is a hypocrite and leave it there.
Brexit is going to be such a monumental national embarrassment, there is no need to do anything for now. At the right time he just needs to highlight any of the softer Brexits that would have made a difference. The tories will try to blame covid, but all Starmer will need to do is point over the channel.
If I was Starmer the main thing I would be working on is a roadmap back to accepting pretty much full regulatory alignment and renegotiating the deal on that basis. When things get really bad next year, he just gives Barnier a cheeky call and says "If I say we can be back in 'x' by whatever date and the benefits will be 'y' and 'z' and immediate, will you back me up?"
Barnier, who must loathe Johnson and his rabble with a passion will happily play along. The EU would probably like us back at some point, in some capacity, with a freshly smacked backside and a promise not to do it again.
Starmers job is to make Boris look like a lying, incompetent, thick as shit, C**t. He is doing a good job as Boris cant cope with analytics... and cant follow a "defence" script.
Starmer knows there is a epic shit show coming in January... either Boris folds like a wet napkin or jumps off the cliff and Starmer knows this.
He also knows that Rishi will inherit this... Starmer and his team just need to sit back and point out how shite they are. Rishi is doomed he can not keep his party and the great unwashed happy - just not possible.
Rishi is doomed he can not keep his party and the great unwashed happy – just not possible.
And don't forget that his creditors (our creditors) aren't going to keep doling out the sweeties to fund an epic political fail.
Even the utterly irresponsible shit the Tories are banging on about with six months to file imports paperwork - that can easily be negated. Some lorries still go from Dover to Calais, right? The UK has effectively waved every Tom, Dick or Harry through. But if the EU insist on full checks going the other way, the effect is much the same. Ferries aren't one way only. Hold up each one for a few minutes more and Kent still becomes a lorry park.
This is what happens when you try to screw over people you actually need.
Maybe we could rebrand Xmas 2020 as the retro-Victorian one. I reckon some spaghetti and a six pack of Andrex Arsewipe Deluxe might turn out to be the fashionable gift of choice this year. And it is all down to Johnson.
I thought Boris as PM was depressing till I saw how little even those who see his flaws expect from politicians.
Given the 80 seat majority, what more do we think he could do, other than call out the constant stream of bullshit and corruption?
Call me a hopeless idealist but he could give some idea of how he'd like to see things change.
I think we can all take it as read that There’s no way on earth Boris Johnson will be leading the Tories at the next election.
It looks like it’ll be Sunak. That’s fine for now when all he’s done is given everyone free pizzas and looked vaguely more competent than the imbeciles he’s surrounded with
But come Januaries shitshow he’s a fully paid up Brexiteer who now has to pay for all those pizzas. His glowing poll ratings won’t last long
