Useless. Hopeless. Clueless.
Maybe. Or just a big slow ship to turn around. I don't know which yet, personally.
The YouGov tracker on trustworthiness is interesting...
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-the-labour-party-trustworthy-or-untrustworthy
Maybe. Or just a big slow ship to turn around. I don’t know which yet, personally.
With my tongue out of my cheek it's a reasonable point.
Don't get me wrong, I think the current front bench team are not cutting through the news to engage with voters at the moment, and that goes right to the top, but I'm not sure a big switch in voting intention is realistic right now. Getting people to trust the party, and imagine it in government and acting for them, is a big and perhaps frustratingly slow task. I still think it won't be complete by the next election, and that the Conservatives will win again, sadly. Would love to be wrong.
The reality is massive spend is going to be the only way actually out of this economic hole.
Too many people are scared of what that means and they don't need to be. It's not a question of affordability. We can afford it. Real resources and employment is the only limiting factor. Inflation (currently 0.7%) is the measurement for this.
We have seen the Tories tinker with spend but quickly reign it in due to market ideology.
There was no growth in the economy before Covid-19. There is massive room for direct government spending.
The £300 Billion already on the way is completely funded. No extra tax. The BoE directly funded. Learn about what the debt actually is. And then you see it's not really a debt in the sense of a household. Our Governerment is a currency issuer and we and everyone else currency users.
The sooner a political party accepts this the better. Neither Labour nor the Tories accept spend before tax and that is exactly what happens and needs to happen with force.
The most important economic book this year "The Deficit Myth" by Stephanie Kelton should be read by anyone who wants to understand how government spending works - with central banks in particular.
Read it now. It will change your understanding of tax before spend. And is more relevant than ever.
And to be fair even McDonald wanted to balance the books and it's completely economically illiterate.
reasonable explanation here
The voters in Red wall seats that went to con are switching back to lab but not in enough numbers
and starmers approval rating is obviously way above johnsons
but with recession coming tories favoured on economy
sunak most popular MP right now!
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1281628266957344768
Well said Rone. We could also get smart about taxation to make it more efficient and invest in emerging technologies as well as set up UBI but no one has the balls to.
TBF Cummings is trying to push emerging tech
The problem is he thinks he's smart enough to decide which tech to invest in rather than smart enough to let the actual smart people do it, he actually believes he is a genius
We're stuffed
What’s this about? Not the JK Rowling stuff?
Unfortunately spending won't sort this out. It's a problem of supply not lack of demand, caused by the destruction of firms and low rates of profit (ie throw money at firms who are not confident/prepared to invest and the multiplier and accelerator effect stops there, they pocket it). Massive investment in capital is required on the scale of the New Deal, but it ain't gong to happen.
Get the popcorn out
https://twitter.com/acailler/status/1285840008885215233?s=19
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1285863220683694081?s=19
The dumping of the failed Corbynite experiment into the dustbin of history, where it belongs, and the Party's reconnection with actual reality, continues apace. Jolly good.
I don't even need to look on Twitter to know that it'll have gone into meltdown as the tinfoil helmet revolutionaries get their knickers unfeasibly twisted, as everyone else gives a collective shrug.
Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. The Tory party will be the only ones sorry to see you go
Not a single question from Sir at PMQs on protecting the NHS from a trade deal.
Not a single question from Sir at PMQs on protecting the NHS from a trade deal.
But I noticed Johnson’s preferred line of attack now it to try and tie Kier Starmer to Jeremy Corbyn, which indicates the PM is struggling to get things to stick to the current leader of the opposition.
BillMC
Subscriber
Not a single question from Sir at PMQs on protecting the NHS from a trade deal.Posted 4 hours ago
I was disappointed about this as well
The dumping of the failed Corbynite experiment into the dustbin of history, where it belongs, and the Party’s reconnection with actual reality, continues apace. Jolly good.
Then in that case what are you expecting to replace it? More neoliberalalism sir? Ah. Dying on its arse; in fact propped up by a large dose of Socialism - during the pandemic. So not really confined to a bin, very much keeping the economy propped up as we speak.
The Labour party currently however is not connecting to anything. There is no vision, no opposition to anything significant that will benefit the electorate - especially in the current circumstances. Can't quite work out what is jolly good about this.
The polls are starting to reflect this.
As you've been told several times centrism is going nowhere. It isn't substantially different from current the administration - without the electoral benefit of drawing in the Brexiteer.
Basically success for you appears to be Starmer having a good sesh in PMQs - which doesn't really amount to much.
As you’ve been told several times centrism is going nowhere.
Agreed. The UK is moving further right at an increasing pace. The question is how to arrest that, and get Labour into government.
The Labour party currently however is not connecting to anything. There is no vision, no opposition to anything significant that will benefit the electorate – especially in the current circumstances. Can’t quite work out what is jolly good about this.
The polls are starting to reflect this.
Eh? What, now? The Labour Party is presently polling 20 points higher than when grandad finally (3yesrs too late) shuffled off to the allotment. I’d be more than happy for Starmer To carry on with that lack of connection and direction. That would be terrible, wouldn’t it? That betrayal of all that idealogical purity that was such a winner with the electorate?
You never know... If he carries on like this it might even deliver a *whisper it* Labour government
And who would want that? WHO?!
That would really restrict the opportunities to endlessly Tweet ‘JEREMY WAS RIGHT!!’ Which is pretty much all that those on the left seem to do nowadays, so I understand your lack of enthusiasm. You ‘won the argument’ after all. 😂
If Keir was a Tory candidate, Labour wouldn’t stand a chance for a good decade. Yet you still find complaining points for what is esentially a dream candidate.
Looks like another good day for Starmer and the potential electability of the Labour Party as the successor as head of Unite favoured by Corbynite gobshite ‘Ref Len’ McClusky has been scuppered
Starmer Critic Loses Bid To Become Left’s Candidate To Succeed Unite’s Len McCluskey
It seems there really does appear to be an appetite within the whole Labour movement to get rid of all of these clowns and get back to being a serious, credible political party again. Just a pity about it took five years of Brexit-enabling, Tory government delivering buffoonery to get here
Agreed. The UK is moving further right at an increasing pace. The question is how to arrest that, and get Labour into government.
/tin foil on
Isn’t the, for want of a better description, hard left still banking on disaster socialism? Let those they can paint as right wing screw everyone over trashing millions of lives and then waltz in to save the day after it’s been lost.
\tin foil off
Just a pity about it took five years of Brexit-enabling,
All part of Corbyn's ingenious plan. Let Tories get the Brexit that he wanted but couldn't say it, get replaced by someone who has a clue what they are doing and getting Brexit and a Labour party back in power. And you wrote him off as clueless.
Then in that case what are you expecting to replace it?
Anyone (literally anyone) who isn't Corbyn. I hesitate to don the "cloak of Binners" but when on the doorsteps of Durham they tell you that they won't vote for Corbyn because they don't trust him with the keys to No10., it doesn't take a genius to see where the problem lay.
There's nothing wrong with the policies (just need presenting in a coherent way) but Corbyn's leadership was shockingly bad.
All part of Corbyn’s ingenious plan. Let Tories get the Brexit that he wanted but couldn’t say it, get replaced by someone who has a clue what they are doing and getting Brexit and a Labour party back in power. And you wrote him off as clueless.
tEh Long GAmE, cOMrADEs!
Funny how the impotent rage of the rightwingers on here always seems to lack content or statistical context but they are effusive with their insults, name-calling and KS3 English (plus bum-jokes and bum jokes).
Yep, and knock someone with an allotment and then proudly queue outside Greggs.
Morning comrades.
Funny how the impotent rage of the rightwingers on here always seems to lack content or statistical context
By 'rightwingers' I presume you're referring to everyone who always knew Corbyn was hopeless? And by 'impotent rage', you mean the expression of relief that him and his useless, unelectable coterie are finally gone?
Good to see Jezza's further demonstration of his fantastic judgment as he spends the next few years fighting a legal battle he can't possibly win and probably bankrupt himself into the bargain?
Anyway.... This 'statistical context' of which you speak? You mean stuff like this?
Competent, likeable, decisive: Keir Starmer beating Boris Johnson on all counts
Where Starmer is polling higher than Boris in every single area? Or the one that really matters... That he's closed the 20+ point poll lead that Grandad gifted him down to nothing?
They're the only ones that matter really, aren't they?
Steak bake, comrade? I'm popping in at lunchtime
There’s nothing wrong with the policies (just need presenting in a coherent way)
And how much would you bet that they will remain? I desperately want Starmer to keep the policies but I have very little faith that he will. All the signs and signals suggest they're going to be binned in favour of more new labour inspired fiscal conservatism and pro-corporate cowardice. I really hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't put any money on it.
What are you basing that on Daz? What signs and signals? I haven't seen any signs of a change of policy on anything.
He seems to have spent all his time restoring an air of competence to the party that was sadly lacking before. As far as policy is concerned I've seen absolutely no signs at all that he plans a change of direction
My hunch is that he has enough pragmatism that some policies will be dropped to suit the reality of the electorates voting behaviour.
What signs and signals?
Not much by Starmer admittedly, but everything else is heading that way, from the things his MPs say, to the commentary and narrative which is ratcheting up in the media etc. Today it's about detoxifying the labour brand, tomorrow it'll be the policies. It's as inevitable as night following day, because the people who are currently steering labour away from the Corbyn era, are the same people who steered them away from socialism back in the 90s.
The jury is out still, and like I said I'll be very happy to be wrong, but I don't think I will be.
I don't think the issue was with owning an allotment, just more the fact Jezzer appeared to spend time here when needed elsewhere, similar to Boris and walk in freezers...
Good job Boris didn't wander into a Greggs freezer otherwise there would have been a lot of spitting out of vegetarian sausage rolls 🙂
Anyway... I won't be going to Greggs today. I've just had a refrigerated delivery of pies turn up, courtesy of TJ.
I can't even remember what our last pastry-based bet was that I won? I know it was during lockdown and pie deliveries weren't on the agenda
Thanks very much TJ!! 😀
I’ll give you a clue binners, he’s still in the job.
Ah yes... I bet on the hard-faced shamelessness of Mr Cummins and the fact that he'd be going nowhere.
My political predictions are usually a bit more accurate than my footballing ones 😀
They could be shit and still be better than your footballing ones. 😛
A fair point 😃
Getting away from Binners' pies and back to the subject at hand. I took up Rone's earlier recommendation to read The Deficit Myth by Stephanie Kelton whilst on holiday (I always read economics books on holiday for some bizarre reason), and I would urge everyone to do the same. I already knew a lot about MMT but even so it's pretty mind blowing.
So my main question regarding Starmer's policies is whether he'll take the obvious opportunity covid (and brexit) has provided and adopt MMT inspired economic policies, or continue with the fraud that we can't afford to pay for decent public services, infrastructure and properly confront climate change? I suspect we all know the answer, but lets wait and see.
Good call Dazh. Glad you read it.
Think most folk think it's some sort of left wing policy when it's just how the system actually works - with currency issuing governments - irrespective of ideology. Look at Trump and co they are always spending on the military - without restriction. That money could just as easily be spent on things that improve lives.
On the UK side the BoE governor (Andrew Bailey) has a lot to answer for recently talking up the country nearly bring broke. This establishment rubbish has to stop and is demonstrable nonsense.
And don't let anyone lecture you on inflation - particularly hyperinflation (Zimbabwe - yawn) which was about the supply side and Labour market not being able to deliver productivity.
The UK Government doesn't even have to go to the bond market which creates the bogus debt we all talk about - this is mechanism for controlling interest rates rather than actually borrowing money (which has already been issued and spent at this point.)
Either way Q/E has taken care of this 'debt' - this year
Lots of Kelton stuff out there. She puts lots of time in. Richard Murphy runs a good blog too - he's UK based.
Mark Blyth, L. Randall Wray and Bill Mitchell - all worth following too.
I’ll have a read of that when I’ve finished Mein Kampf.
I don’t share your pessimism Daz. I think Starmer isn’t making policy commitments at the moment because he knows what’s coming. This next 12 months could quite potentially be this countries most transformative year in peacetime.
When the furlough ends in October there is going to be an avalanche of bankruptcies and unemployment is going to rise to levels this country has never seen. Chuck a No Deal Brexit in on top of that and you’re looking at an economic tsunami. The Tory’s, especially Boris, will own that mess 100%. But we all know what their only solution is... more austerity.
Next year, as this threadbare Americanised idea of Capitalism has delivered yet another economic implosion, even more severe than the last, then it might well be very fertile ground for a credible opposition to be offering radical alternatives.
I live in hope, anyway, you miserable sod! 😃
In other news...
I love polls. This one basically says the Tories could just literally shit on your dinner table and you'd still vote for it.
(Sorry there's some duplication here I couldn't pull out individual polls)
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1286678743289929734?s=19
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1286678746062364672?s=19
And my favourite - support for the four day week!
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1286678748847386629?s=19
I don’t share your pessimism Daz. I think Starmer isn’t making policy commitments at the moment because he knows what’s coming. This next 12 months could quite potentially be this countries most transformative year in peacetime.
Binners - Keith Starmer is just going to offer you polite Capitalism. Not much different from what you've already got - but without the "Sex Yeti" (Frankie Boyle) at the wheel.
dazh
SubscriberSo my main question regarding Starmer’s policies is whether he’ll take the obvious opportunity covid (and brexit) has provided and adopt MMT inspired economic policies, or continue with the fraud that we can’t afford to pay for decent public services, infrastructure and properly confront climate change?
TBH the lie has been so well and so continually sold that it'll now be very hard to convince anyone that the truth isn't Left Wing Utopia And Financial Irresponsibility. Especially since Miliband's Labour decided that the best way to deal with it was to say "Yes, absolutely, you have to balance the books" and Brown's labour left with "There isn't any money". And even when people actually do it, they tend to do all they can to hide what they're actually doing so that it still fits into the lie (on the left, to avoid accusations of spending what we don't have; on the right, to avoid weakening the lie)
People understand "balancing the books" and "living within your means", they're easy relatable concepts. Of course, world and national economies aren't easy and relatable, they're complex and unrelated to our own daily finances, so almost by definition easy and relatable concepts will be false or misleading. But that doesn't stop them from being an easy sell.
I've exchanged a few tweets with James Meadway (former advisor to John McDonnell) and he doesn't really have time for MMT either (though he admits the debt is largely irrelevant.)
That tells you a lot.
Richard Murphy (a prominent MMTer) got close to Labour but they didn't employ his services as I understand. (He co-authored The Green New Deal.)
Stephanie Kelton went into her research 20 years ago looking for answers to economic problems and was very much led by the evidence to where she is today.
And she is not shy at taking anyone on.
The mainstream media need knocking into shape too as they're always pushing the 'how are you going to pay for it?'
