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the answer is emphatically the Dustbin.
Why?
I bet the Dustbin would be clearer at communicating their policies too...
the answer is emphatically the Dustbin.
Why?
Cos the dustbin sucks up all the rubbish in the country for the people.
The Johnson deliberately breaks things & creates rubbish.
I don't think that poll is far out.
The debate on Shelagh Fogarty (which is basically what do you think of Starmzy) is nearly all ambivalence towards Starmer.
We all know Johnson is bad - it's just that Starmer is not very good, and not enough to swing people.
All the eggs were put in get rid of the left basket. PLP powered.
The mood was judged incorrectly from the outset for Starmer's ability to just lean right and all will fall into place.
But if you're not pushing left - as in pushing back against Tory policy with strong ideas of your own then you're not really signalling yourself as different to the electorate.
A leader needs to push back and he's everything but that.
People are desperate, and are just not getting the conviction or clarity.
Labour also haven't managed to kick into the long grass the Durham situation.
All this with minimal smears and the usual Tory incompetence, corruption, blunder and spin - Starmer has been woeful.
It’s all the way through the poll that they have done, even breaking it down to the groupings, and sub-questions associated, it just seems to be very grey in terms of responses, and with so much unknowns, the error bars on those percentages will be massive
It's good you question the poll but I reckon you're just refusing to be disappointed by its findings.
Labour also haven’t managed to kick into the long grass the Durham situation.
All this with minimal smears and the usual Tory incompetence, corruption, blunder and spin – Starmer has been woeful.
I'm not sure how much clearer Labour can be on that, SKS has denied it & the journalists just keep going round in circles...
Far too many "ums"... he shouldn't sound so defensive... he's fully in the right... it's been investigated... case closed... no fines... dragged up again for election week by the Mail (protect the non-dom)... and far too many in the media willing to join in the "just as bad as Johnson" false equivalence smearing... "why doesn't he answer....?!?" when Johnson has got away with not answering again, and again, and again... "wait for Sue Gray"... "wait for the Met"... "wait for Godot"...
Why's he even having to face questions on it?
Because it’s in the Daily Mail.
Ah, and now the Mail website is running a story on him being asked those questions on GMB, which they were only asking because the story is front page news in the Daily Mail.
♻️
Keir Starmer wriggles on Beergate in GMB interview with Susanna Reid amid claims he ordered £200 late-night curry for up to 30 aides during lockdown... but Labour leader STILL insists they were working and says police have NOT been in touch
• Keir Starmer squirmed as he was grilled on ITV's GMB about the 'Beergate' row
• Labour leader didn't deny ordering £200 of curry for up to 30 aides at gathering
• He insisted they were working and confirmed police have not been in touch
[ this just makes me hungry for curry ]
It’s good you question the poll but I reckon you’re just refusing to be disappointed by its findings.
To be honest i just can't really be disappointed in a poll that i'm not that sure of the data, or even that it's at a key point in time, i've looked at the groupings and sub-questions and it's as expected in most instances, only surprise was that 18-24 years olds voted Boris over SKS by 40 to 32, which seems a surprise, as every other metric for 18 to 24 points to large, if not the largest gap between labour and tory voting or backing.
As for this whole currygate, honestly, the daily mail are on a crusade, because they are mainly tory and have a very prominent second generation non-dom in charge, it's also the mail, which means those reading it and being disgusted will never vote labour anyway, GMB is just a poor TV show that is just wanting to try and raise controversy for press coverage, and for those on the couch to pretend they're actually reporters, or even newsworthy.
Well that's a relief - the pollsters are wrong, the Daily Mail criticises because it's a Tory newspaper, and GMB is a rubbish TV show.
Which means of course that none of it is the fault of Saint Keir.
It's strange how many who were so quick to criticize the previous Labour leader are now so willing to find excuses to defend the current one, is it not?
This thread has been constantly littered with criticism of Starmer. Including by people who criticised the previous leader.
Well that’s a relief – the pollsters are wrong, the Daily Mail criticises because it’s a Tory newspaper, and GMB is a rubbish TV show.
I didn't say the poll was rubbish, i just said the data wasn't sound and it's at a point in time that is pretty useless, the next GE will probably be 2024, which might not be with Boris vs Starmer, so why would i pay attention to this poll now?
Are you saying the Daily Mail isn't right of centre and aimed at conservative voters more than labour or Lib dems?
And GMB is rubbish, i'll not add more to that!
so why would i pay attention to this poll now?
For the same reason we don't limit our discussion of politics to just the period surrounding a GE.
£6.66 a head, tight farkar.
It’s strange how many who were so quick to criticize the previous Labour leader are now so willing to find excuses to defend the current one, is it not?
And vice versa.
Yeah well I've read on this thread that the PLP didn't make any serious attempt to replace the previous leader, so I guess anything is possible when you rewrite history.
Predictions?
I think Labour will do "OK". They're coming from a high point in 2019 and will do well to hang onto to all those seats and councils that they gained then and win some more. I think the Tories will do better than the polls suggest, I think they been briefing that they expect to do badly, and will use the results to bat away any attempts to use these election to remove Johnson. Plus in 2019 it was the fag end of May's govt and the Tories were massively unpopular.
I don't expect a massive swing in council control or seats from either party, so overall vote share is going to be the indicator to look for I think
It’s strange how many who were so quick to criticize the previous Labour leader are now so willing to find excuses to defend the current one, is it not?
I'm sort of impressed that you keep up with this belief that somewhere on here you think there's this pool of support for Starmer; from the responses anyone can read on here it doesn't seem to exist at all except in your head? I don't think there's anyone posting on this thread who thinks Starmer is doing a decent job.
Plus also; critism of Corbyn =/= support for Starmer.
I held my nose and voted Labour for Hallam and TUSC for mayor. I was half principled.
Plus in 2019 it was the fag end of May’s govt and the Tories were massively unpopular.
Not nearly as unpopular as they are now, but yet the expectations are so much lower. It's amazing that in 2019 labour MPs couldn't bring themselves to support Corbyn despite his apparent electoral success, but now in 2022 they're unquestioningly supportive of a leader who is struggling to make headway against the most corrupt, dishonest and unpopular tory government in decades. It's almost like they don't really care about election results.
that you keep up with this belief that somewhere on here you think there’s this pool of support for Starmer; from the responses anyone can read on here it doesn’t seem to exist at all except in your head?
And I think that belief might be in your head Nick. I don't think that there is a pool of support for Starmer, on this thread anyway, how can there be when he is so clearly not up to the job?
What I do believe however is that there are constant excuses being made for Labour relative poor showing when it is presented with a staggering level of open goals.
It appears to be everyone's fault, bad pollster methodology, the Daily Mail, breakfast TV, stupid voters, Boris Johnson, and of course the previous leader of the Labour Party.
Everyone that is except the current Labour leader. He appears to be blameless in the eyes of those who were so quick and keen to criticize the previous leader.
And my comment wasn't solely aimed at stw btw, I had also very much in mind the behaviour of the PLP.
t appears to be everyone’s fault, bad pollster methodology, the Daily Mail, breakfast TV, stupid voters, Boris Johnson, and of course the previous leader of the Labour Party.
I can remember all those being used to deflect blame away from Corbyn as well. (obvs not Boris so much, but whoever was the leader of the Tories at the time) I don't think the enmity or infighting from either side of the PLP has decreased because of the choices of last couple of Labour leaders.
Decreased? No obviously not! You surely have heard of all the expulsions and proscriptions under the current leadership?
It is in stark contrast with the previous leadership which was so tolerant of dissent that, for example, it idiotically took no action against a senior Labour MP who said "You’re a ****ing anti-Semite and a racist" to the Labour leader, and who allegedly responded with "I'm sorry you feel like that". Muppet.
I think it's fair to say that she felt it was safe to insult the leader as the climate which previously existed didn't cause her to fear expulsion.
Are those the expulsions relating to anti-semitism groups, previously expelled members, criminal proceedings, etc?
Maybe the previous leader should have led on more expulsions due to the issues that caused his own suspension
Why go on about the previous leadership? Again? Ten years ago the previous leader was congratulating George Galloway for beating Labour… was he expelled for that? No. Not only was he allowed to stay in the party despite openly supporting those who stand against it at elections (the reason I’m not a member, I’ll support candidates for other parties if it’s in the country’s interest… Caroline Lucas being a good example of that… which of course is never the case with Galloway, but hey) but he stood for the leadership and got it. Labour doesn’t just purge people for disagreeing, but it does do so sometimes when they become severely damaging. With his only half acceptance, padded with qualification and whataboutery, of the EHRC report findings, he put him self in that position. Further nonsense about the Ukraine war has only cemented that status. But even after all that, he’s still in the party! He probably shouldn’t be, but he is.
Bleedin'ell, when the ranting against lefties gets going on here it's like reading the Daily Mail.
You forgot to mention chummy with terrorists btw.
He's gone now, the main reason i wasn't a fan wasn't his stance on NATO, or the cronyism with certain areas and people, or laying wreaths, or whatever, it was his lack of political nous, he was too stubborn in his ways, and that made him easier to argue against for the likes of Cameron, and even Boris.
Anyway, Starmer might not be the man to lead them at the next election, but what he is, is someone who is steadying the ship a little, it looks like it's working a little just now, the front bench look a little less incohesive, even the likes of Rayner is starting to look pretty much in step with them, which could give you the alternative at the GE in 2024, it's 2 more years to polish up for the likes of Rayner, Streeting, etc, Yvette Cooper was a good shout by someone, but just to see Ed Balls as the PM's other half!
Well I wasn't the previous leader's number one fan. In fact between 2017-19 I thought he was totally spinless and seriously lacked leadership qualities. He was the single greatest political disappointment of my lifetime. Although it's my fault for putting so much faith in a PC obsessed middle-class liberal politician. I'm surprised that he wasn't more popular on here, he shared pretty much the same middle-class values as most on here.
What I don't understand is why he was given such a hard time and the current leader, who is clearly useless, gets such an easy ride.
but what he is, is someone who is steadying the ship a little
This is where we differ argee, you and me envisage going on different journeys. I don't want the ship to be steadied, I want it to turn round and go in a different direction. What we are faced with now imo warrants more than just tinkering at the edges.
So yeah, I can understand why you might be satisfied with the current leader and the direction he is taking Labour.
Which as I understand it is the same as the Tories but more competent. However I'm not interested in more competent Tories.
'Steadying the ship'? Good Gob, he's been the most divisive and vituperative Labour leader in living memory. And Corbyn was actually limp and no way a serious threat to the establishment although head and shoulders above this munchkin.
the current leader, who is clearly useless, gets such an easy ride
He doesn’t. It’s all in your head. He’s criticized left, right and centre in this thread. But many people say that, despite his short comings, they’d rather he was PM than Johnson or any of his likely Tory successors, and so will vote accordingly. Just as many said the same about the previous leader. You’re too busy arguing with yourself to accept the occasional positive comment about him. And for some reason unable to see just how damaging the Tories are right now. We need them out.
Labour MPs celebrating labour ‘holding on’ in working class Sunderland. Just about sums it up.
They should be, I dunno, pissed off about it, right?
Labour MPs celebrating labour ‘holding on’ in working class Sunderland. Just about sums it up.
The Tories have been canvassing heavily. Johnson was up there only a couple of days ago getting confused about the difference between Teeside and Tyneside
Prof John Curtice on Labour:
Therefore this is certainly not a local election performance that in any sense indicates a party that is on course for winning a general election with an overall majority. Indeed, I’m not sure whether you could even say that at this point it’s guaranteed, or necessarily on course, even to be the largest part of the next party in the next parliament. There is still an awful lot of work for Labour to do, not least perhaps in more leave-voting England.
Some interesting results.
Lab win Barnet. - Big Jewish population and surrounded by Tory MPs
Labour win new council of Cumberland - all local MPS are Tories
Wasn't Wandsworth Thatchers favourite council? That's gone to Labour.
There's some interesting comments from Tory councillors saying things like "There is an integrity issue, people no longer have the confidence that the PM can be relied upon to tell the truth" The Eustace comments about own brand shopping seems to be cropping up quite a lot (no shit Sherlock)
Modest gains I think sums up labours night
https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1522342120190849026?t=b2CfsIT0TnSN-VDSOOdurg&s=19
Always too much read into local elections, but labour got to be disappointed
a party that is on course for winning a general election with an overall majority
As ever, he’s absolutely spot on. This country is so far from electing a majority Labour government. Has been for a long time. Will be for a long time to come (if ever). So, the question is, how do we stop the Conservative being the largest party at the next general election, and how do we get a government without them in it? This isn’t the 90s, opposition parties need to wake up to that.
There is still an awful lot of work for Labour to do, not least perhaps in more leave-voting England.
Understatement of the year. And why the Conservatives threw the “send asylum seekers indefinitely to Rwanda” policy into the local election mix. To help generate “lefty lawyers a threat to government’s plans to keep out asylum seekers” headlines on Election Day.
I strongly suspect Labour can take back (even more) ground in the bigger English cities, but can they do the same in the towns and villages without aping (even more) Tory rhetoric on migration and asylum?
Hilarious watching labour celebrate no progress in the red wall and further confirmation of them as a party of the London professional classes. Losing councillors to the greens in Sunderland. I think the message there is clear. They’re f****. Starmer only appeals to a tiny number of lefty liberals in London and is wildly unpopular everywhere else.
You’re too busy arguing with yourself
I look forward to you not arguing with me Kelvin, although you appear to be unable to resist.
Wasn’t Wandsworth Thatchers favourite council? That’s gone to Labour.
It was indeed although that was over 30 years ago so I'm not sure if changing demographics has had an affect.
What is certain is that Labour appears to have done exceptionally well in London, as predicted by opinion polls which gave them a 30% lead over the Tories. And this is in a city which only 6 years ago had a Tory mayor elected with the largest amount of votes in the country.
However this seems to be in sharp contrast with the rest of the country where the result appears to suggest that Labour are not currently sufficiently strong enough to be able to win a general election.
Although the importance of Labour gains in London shouldn't be dismissed, as with its population the size of Austria's it represents a very significant chunk of the electorate.
I look forward to you not arguing with me Kelvin, although you appear to be unable to resist.
Apologies for replying to your post. It was a mistake. Carry on with strange embittered posting.
Starmer only appeals to a tiny number of lefty liberals in London
To be fair London MPs such as Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott have massive electoral support.
Apologies for replying to your post.
Which apparently you can't stop doing.