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We’re not the US, our currency isn’t that strong
It only needs to be strong enough to raise debt in sterling. The fact that the market in UK govt debt hasn’t collapsed following brexit and covid proves it is strong enough.
any public ownership discussions will end up with a lot of upset foreign owners,
And? That’s entirely the point isn’t it?
Which voters would they be? If you’re talking about the 28% of eligible voters who voted tory in 2019 then I wouldn’t call that ‘most’.
That 28% yielded 365 seats in parliament for them, giving them the majority of the house, which in turn has given them free reign to allow someone like Boris Johnson to stay in power, rather than give power to Jeremy Corbyn.
The cost of nuclear is relatively static – has gone up 8 fold.
It's a traded commodity.
the reason we are in the current mess is down to poor decisions in the early 2000s.
As fun as it is to blame new labour for everything in this case they are partially innocent. The problem dates back to the early 80s when the tories decided they werent overly fond of state involvement in, anything really but, specifically the electrical sector and wanted to privatise the lot. At which point the expertise we had acquired at some expense got lost and from then on we got put into the position of having to support foreign state owned firms who wanted to offset the costs onto anyone but their own taxpayers.
So the example of France is kind of irrelevant for the reasons set out above – the “supply” cost there hasn’t changed whereas it has here.
The govt could - if they wanted - limit energy price rises. They could subsidise the energy companies, limit energy companies' profits, pay half the bill for people, bin green levies, cut the vat etc etc.
Why dont Labour attack the Tories on their lack of patriotism?
This is a very good question and one which could have been asked 40 years ago when Thatcher was PM.
Labour has always let the Tories off the hook with their completely fake patriotism.
The Tories will always put the interests of big business, wherever in the world it might be based, before the interests of ordinary working people in the UK.
As an aside, the reason the UK’s own share of electricity from Nuclear fell through the floor is because Labour policy from 1997 to 2010 Was to refuse permission for any replacement nuclear power stations.
I thought you were a strong supporter of the markets and non government intervention cheddar?
My understanding is that no nuclear energy industry anywhere in the world is, or has ever been, commercially viable. I believe ever since the very first nuclear power station the industry has always relied on government subsidies.
Yeah, Socialism isn’t up for discussion for me, we’d have to actually have some assets within the country to make it even viable, or funds, neither of which the UK has at present.
This is nonsense.
The funds that you talk of ultimately come from the BoE. The BoE is tasked to mark up the government's account whenever it is reuqired to.
Resources on the other hand...
No one was asking where the money came from, least of all the labour party
Exactly.
The government can only be seen to do this when it has to. But it likes to pretend it can't.
You see that 400billion for covid support that was spent - Yet the Tories claim by their own measure to have a bit of extra cash floating about in the spring statement. Despite spending all that cash and not funding from taxation.
The deficit is what ends up on the private sector.
There's currently a personal debt crisis blooming because currently the government deficit is too small, and the flow of cash into the private sector is getting smaller.
No one knows what will happen to inflation but the Tory playbook will have a tax cut ready at some point.
They will have their own 'solution'.
Nothing from Labour.
Labour have no ideology they have nowhere to go - you can only be competent if you have ideas to be competent with.
I thought you were a strong supporter of the markets and non government intervention cheddar?
Lol. Really. Despite all the evidence that markets collapse without the state! Did he just not witness how the market reacted during the pandemic?
Does anyone still believe this?
Once again, there is no market without the state and its central bank creating money with a tax liability to force you to pay taxes, and give currency value.
Without that there is no market or value for your tokens. And that's not even taking into account the infrastructure that state provides.
We’re not the US, our currency isn’t that strong, and Brexit, the bank crisis, etc has weakened it to the point of where we are now, any messing about with QE will make inflation go higher, any public ownership discussions will end up with a lot of upset foreign owners, and their countries of origin.
QE has not affected the CPI inflation we have now. For the record there was 400ish billion of QE between 2008 - 2019. Inflation remained at 2%.
Restriction to supply of goods has created this latest bout of inflation. You see, when we off-shore nearly everything we consume and supply chains breakdown during a pandemic and there is a shortage of all sorts of things then supply is limited and inflation expands.
Money that was 'injected' via bond-buying into the economy was replacing lost income during the pandemic. Lost income... because people weren't working and still had to pay bills. (Or the economy would have been even worse.)
So the upshot is that this inflation situation is largely driven by supply shortages not as the right-wingers have you believe QE.
(Add in Brexit too.)
It's all there to see.
It is an open goal imo. Stop trying to out flag shag them FFS! Just point out all the infrastructure they have sold to foreign companies. Do it every chance you get!
Absolutely this.
The actual last thing the Tories are is patriotic.
(Because the market sits above that. We are seeking the best value for our customers blah blah blah.)
The embarrassment of being nationalistic but having nothing to be actually proud about!
Anyone remember in the 80s when Buzby and Sid were handing out a few hundred quid to your uncle as now they could own a bit?
Yeah well we weren't wealthy enough to buy something we already owned. But despite being young I could the see redistribution from poor to rich taking place.
Most folk in the UK want a fairer system, they want to eradicate homeless, poverty and healthcare, but then when the options are put in front of them, they tend to vote for comfort.
Exactly this. Put a lot of blind test policies in front of people and I would say Labour/Green/SNP policies would come out ahead of Conservatives.
Then when it comes to the vote they vote Tory because you know, you can't trust Labour.
So labour don't have a whole lot to say about increasing people's incomes to deal with inflation but they're totally on the case with spending more money on military hardware that will probably never be used.
In other news they've just proscribed another bunch of campaign groups so they can kick out more troublesome lefties.
Every European country will be increasing military spending, depressing though that is. It's the only possible response to what is happening right now. Those of us that want nuclear disarmament and spending shifted away from defence and towards, well, everything else need to accept that requires buy in from Russia to happen. While Russia is seeking to expand the RF by force, European countries needs to prepare to defend themselves. No one knows how the next USA presidential election will go, and how that could leave European countries to defend themselves if NATO is undermined by USA isolationism aligned to Russian interests. Disarmament in Europe is more than paused, it is going backwards, and only Russia can change that in the coming years.
In other news they’ve just proscribed another bunch of campaign groups so they can kick out more troublesome lefties.
To be fair, if you look at the names of those 'proscribed' groups they look like a collection of satirical experimental comedy theatre groups at the Edinburgh fringe, some of which may or may not involve interpretive dance
I made the mistake of reading the wikipedia page one of the groups (AWL). I couldn't comment on it any way that didn't sound like a Monty Python sketch, so I didn't say anything here. This thread is looping into irrelevance enough already without that kind of contribution.
It's great that Labour is focussing on the important issues, rather than making itself ever more irrelevant.
Labour are far from irrelevant. This thread is though. Same old nothings from the same old posters. Utterly pointless.
[ and yes, I include my own contributions... an utter waste of time ]
Labour are far from irrelevant. This thread is though.
Au contraire. I pop in for an occasional browse to see what the Tory prospects are for the next GE. Nothing I read in this thread so far suggests that they have anything to worry about.
Labour are far from irrelevant.
Polling evidence, Johnson still being in post, the onward march of ever increasing inequality and impoverishment of working people, and the impotence of labour to do anything about these things would suggest otherwise.
No, labour are currently a total irrelevance, and they'll remain so until they discover some backbone and start challenging the people, policies, institutions and organisations which are currently working in direct opposition to the interests of working people.
Labour are far from irrelevant.
They certainly shouldn't be, given the transformational and urgent changes we need right now. But they are.
Au contraire. I pop in for an occasional browse to see what the Tory prospects are for the next GE. Nothing I read in this thread so far suggests that they have anything to worry about.
Luckily, the regular contributors to this thread are probably about as unrepresentative of the average voter as its possible to get.
Otherwise we'd all be living in some weird sort of rainy, cold Venezuela 😉
Anyway... PMQ's...
Even Wes Streeting can answer stupid questions. The top two future leadership candidates are clearly much better at this than the current leader. What are the PLP waiting for??
https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1509074440616882180?s=20&t=yIxpwgwEIq2jiL8yWId8CA
To be fair, Starmer does make lots of points.
Starmer does make lots of points.
Where as all the PM has is… “Labour want to take us back into lockdown and back into the EU”.
Groundhog Day. Johnson has broken Britain and is stuck in a nonsensical loop.
Labour are far from irrelevant. This thread is though.
The problem with this thread is that Keir Starmer's leadership doesn't provide any basis for relevant debate.
Unless your preoccupation is whether Geronimo the alpaca should die or whether the next James Bond should be a woman, with or without a penis.
On most issues, which interest most people, Starmer's position appears to be that he would do exactly the same as Boris Johnson only better.
Which is hardly the basis for lively and interesting debate.
The problem with this thread is Keir Starmer.
Even binners who is clearly a huge fan of Starmer, presumably on the basis that like himself he hates lefties, is reduced to posting pictures and hurling insults at anyone doesn't see Starmer as some sort of messiah who will save Labour. What else is there for him to do?
The problem with this thread isn’t the occasional stupid question that journalists ask the leader of the opposition, it’s that some people repeat them again, and again, and again… boring any normal person away from the thread. Around, and around, and around.
Perhaps you could give us an approved list of topics to discuss, so everything can be on your terms.
Well why don't you break the circle Kelvin by bringing onto the thread all the inspirational announcements that Starmer has made and all the radical new policies he has to offer?
🥱
I should probably ask for ban to stop myself adding to the nothingness.
Shall I report your post and put you out of your misery? 🤣
You have a point though
Yeah you find this thread so boring that you keep coming back.
Is it to check if binners has posted some new and different pics, or found new words to describe lefties?
Well why don’t you break the circle Kelvin by bringing onto the thread all the inspirational announcements that Starmer has made
Given that you and he share the same view of Starmer, perhaps you could do it instead?
Even Wes Streeting can answer stupid questions. The top two future leadership candidates are clearly much better at this than the current leader. What are the PLP waiting for??
He talked for over a minute and never answered the original question, bar saying 'case by case basis' or 'common sense', it was just waffle against a stupid question.
Given that you and he share the same view of Starmer, perhaps you could do it instead?
Ernie wasn't the one complaining about the thread.
But we all know the problem: Starmer is deeply uninspiring so there's very little to talk about.
I'm less interested in Starmer and more interested in why the parliamentary labour party appear to have no interest in winning the next election. There's usually lots of noise across the political spectrum, and in particularly on the backbenches about the direction of parties, leaderships and their chances at future elections. A good example is the tory backbench revolt against Johnson, who was told unambiguously that his performance wasn't good enough. But the PLP are completely silent. Almost no one is talking about Starmer and how good or bad he seems to be doing. Anyone care to speculate why?
I’m less interested in Starmer and more interested in why the parliamentary labour party appear to have no interest in winning the next election.
So you are interested now? Why? You lot didn't seem interested in winning power 2015-2019 when you put the other guy in charge.
You lot
Who is 'my lot'??
'My lot' were very interested in winning an election between 2015 and 2017, that's why we joined the party in our hundreds of thousands, donated millions and volunteered thousands of hours of time knocking on doors and campaigning in elections. What did the PLP do? Oh yeah they spent all their time sniping from the sidelines like spoilt children because they didn't get the leader they wanted.
What did the PLP do? Oh yeah they spent all their time sniping from the sidelines like spoilt children because they didn’t get the leader they wanted.
On that note it's some sort of small pay-off the Doom end-of-level baddie ex-Labour MP - LORD FFS Ian Austin was involved in a slap-down for his big shitty Telegraph empowered gob recently.
These people should have never been anywhere near the Labour Party.
"We accept that there was and is no basis to suggest that Ms Murray is anti-Semitic," the statement said.
"On the contrary; the court heard in unchallenged evidence that Ms Murray devoted significant time and energy to confronting and challenging antisemitism within the Labour Party whilst she was employed there. The Telegraph and Ian Austin apologise to Ms Murray. We have agreed to pay her substantial damages."
Starmer has it damn easy.
Starmer has it damn easy.
And he’s still shit. What all this is showing is that Corbyn and McDonnell were much more competent and effective than people gave them credit for (I never doubted McDonnell anyway), and that the PLP have monumentally terrible judgement in who their leader should be and how they can beat the tories. They’ve been handed own goal after own goal in a benign media environment against a proven liar and they still can’t make headway.
Corbyn and McDonnell were much more competent and effective than people gave them credit for
To be fair to them, it’s difficult to imagine a dream team more effective at delivering power with a thumping great majority!
… for the Tory’s
I’m sure Boris and chums go all Misty-eyed in awe of their brilliance
