So are the MPs voting based on their own personal views, or those of their constituents?
I’d say last nights commons votes are right up there with the most wildly unrepresentative of constituents views ever.
The vast majority of the population are fully behind what they view as necessary and proportionate measures. The anti-vacation mob are a very vocal but small minority. I very much doubt they scale up to 100+ MPs
What was going on last night (if we discount the usual ‘useful’ clowns like Corbyn and Abbott) was the far right wing of the Tory party stamping their feet and chucking their toys out of the collective pram because they’ve had enough of all this.
They think Boris is a socialist and they want to live in a world of small government that lets everybody get on with doing whatever the hell they like.
Well… letting a certain section of society do whatever the hell they like, at least. People who look very much like them. Rules are for little people. They’ve never had any rules or restrictions placed on them and they don’t like it. Ironically, that attitude chimes very much with Boris’s own similarly entitled view on life
In parts of Europe several countries have decided against that approach.
There are several exceptions, yes, but mandating health workers are vaccinated is one of the basic measures being taken in many countries, and we should not be one of the exceptions (and the rebels know that we won't be, so can happily make whatever point they think they're making without actually negatively effecting policy in England)...
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1471429024597610496?t=Eldki0yYdhcxLrt7QF-E1Q&s=19
Be interesting to see what the next few polls do.
Yes there's the headline but given Starmer is trying to pull the centre. This is shambolic for Labour too.
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1471696617950568452?t=a_pCNfm3mXO_q8iTf2BFYQ&s=19
12,495 votes down from 2019 under Corbyn.
Tactical voting you might say - well given Starmer is trying to court the right then what's the point?
This is shambolic for Labour too.
And yet allowing the LibDems to win appears to have been Starmer's deliberate tactic. My understanding is that not one single shadow cabinet member, including Starmer himself, bothered to go to North Shropshire to campaign or support their abandoned token candidate. I believe that the LibDem leader went several times.
All the national opinion polls show the LibDems at the very best on 10-11%, half of what they were receiving over ten years ago and about what they received last general election when they ended up with 11 seats, they lost their deposit in a by-election a couple of.weeks ago. So whilst this might provide them with a welcome boost there is no proof of a LibDem revival.
And I can't see how Labour can derive any satisfaction from a result which saw their vote collapse.
The real winners imo are the Thatcherite Tories..... the Tories still have a huge majority, "Corbyn-lite" Johnson is weaken even more, Labour don't appear to be a serious threat, and those suckas the LibDems can bask in the limelight in a seat that the Tories will regain in a couple of years time. Liz Truss must be feeling quite smug this morning.
This is shambolic for Labour too.
Youre echoing the official line from the government!
Lib dem candidate even thanked Labour voters for lending her their vote
Starmer will be pleased, Johnson is weakened and Starmer is brs positioned to take advantage
Also of note the greens beat refuk
This is a good day for progressive politics
Lol Labour had the second biggest vote here in 2019.
And yet this Brexitty neighbourhood chose to go with the remainers!
This is a good day for progressive politics
Austerity fueled parties getting in bed together ...
What on earth is progressive about that?
Starmer will be pleased, Johnson is weakened and Starmer is brs positioned to take advantage
So long as you dont mention the Old Bexley byelection and the failure of Labour there with the dramatic drop in votes only beaten by the even more dramatic drop in tory votes.
Here's the thing the they could've chosen to vote for Labour and then you would have cause for celebration.
This is a rejection of Labour as a centrist party, given it was previously the second largest option.
Youre echoing the official line from the government!
There are only so many narratives.
Starmer will be pleased, Johnson is weakened and Starmer is brs positioned to take advantage
By losing several thousand votes? Jeez.
That's off the scale nonsense.
My understanding is that not one single shadow cabinet member, including Starmer himself, bothered to go to North Shropshire to campaign or support their abandoned token candidate
Angela Rayner visited.
Well, as someone who wants a Labour PM as soon as possible, this is a great result. If these rural seats in the west can be switched to LibDem at the next election, then Conservatives on the opposition benches looks far more achievable.
We still have FPTP. Labour getting loads of votes in a seat only for it to return a Tory MP is of no use to anyone.
Well, as someone who wants a Labour PM as soon as possible, this is a great result
Maybe that would make sense if Labour had won this seat or increased their vote share?
We still have FPTP. Labour getting loads of votes in a seat only for it to return a Tory MP is of no use to anyone.
Exactly the same could be said about it being a Libdem seat.
Maybe that would make sense if Labour had won this seat or increased their vote share?
Not necessarily. The lib dem collapse helped the Tories get a big majority. The lib Dems doing well helped Blair get in back in the day.
KS has an approval rating of 56% - general election tomorrow? Labour would more than likely win. But they'd need seats like n Shropshire to go to lib Dems etc to do it still.
Not necessarily. The lib dem collapse helped the Tories get a big majority. The lib Dems doing well helped Blair get in back in the day.
Sure, but Labour lost votes to the Lib Dems too. I'm wary of reading too much into a single result, but it wasn't great for Labour.
well I'm happy
Sure, but Labour lost votes to the Lib Dems too. I’m wary of reading too much into a single result, but it wasn’t great for Labour.
I expect there was a lot of tactical voting, but yes Starmer will have to up his game at the next election.
That said, labour won't win by taking safe Tory seats. They need to win back the marginals and have lib Dems take a few 'safe' Tory seats
The narrative in NS has all been about the Lib Dem’s, so naturally the anti-Tory vote gravitated to them.
Lol Labour had the second biggest vote here in 2019.
The Tory candidate got 35,000 to Labour's 12,500 in 2019. That's not a contest in any normal sense of the word.
Maybe that would make sense if Labour had won this seat or increased their vote share?
Labour don't campaign in rural Tory seats, and there's little to no point in getting into a spending war with the Lib-Dems for a seat that will turn back to the Tories at the next general election in a couple of years. It's not a good return on investment. I don't think the Unions would think that was a wise way of spending their members' money.
This is a rejection of Labour as a centrist party, given it was previously the second largest option.
Given that this seat has in the last 200 years returned Tory MPs in all but 2 years. I think it's fair to say these constituents have always rejected Labour.
but it wasn’t great for Labour.
Your not going to get Tory voters to vote for labour - no matter how badly the Tory's are doing currently. It's easier to get them to the libdem middle ground.
This is a rejection of Labour as a centrist party
Someone doesn’t know Shropshire. If you want the Labour Party to position itself to win lots of seats there (and Herefordshire and Glouscestershire), it will not be the party you want it to be. If want Labour to not be “centrist”, you can forget about these seats. Leave it to others to fight the Tories there. I don’t want Labour to become a bigger LibDem party… leave them to it.
There is no way you can spin Shropshire as anything other than as Starmer led disaster for the Labour party, and hopefully a Macron moment for the Lib Dems.
Labour down to 9% and losing half its voters says they have a tiny number of core voters. Labour voters have lost faith, they've seen a national election lost that was an open goal and swapped to the Lib Dems. Over half of them are remainers yet Starmer is a Brexit apologist. Blair sticks his head up now and then and reminds voters of lies and wars. Then there are the 1974 strike committee to deal with. Labour under Starmer is irrelevant and voters have understood that.
It’s easier to get them to the libdem middle ground.
Well that screws up starmers strategy of heading rightwards and alienating the left then doesnt it? Why bother voting for him and not those guaranteed vote winners in the centre the lib dems?
However looking at the numbers for the election it doesnt really support the case for tories switching to the lib dems given the libdem vote is close to the labour vote in 2017 and the labour/libdem vote in 2019.
Seems pretty obvious to me what’s happened with labour. They’re screwed financially and couldn’t afford the campaign. Also despite protestations to the opposite I suspect back channel discussions are going on between the libdems and labour on the subject of how they might collaborate to get rid of the tories and this could be the first test of that.
At least that’s what I hope. If they’re not talking to the libdems it means they don’t have the resources or the confidence to beat the tories when they’re there for the taking, and that even they don’t think they can win the next election.
I suspect back channel discussions are going on between the libdems and labour on the subject of how they might collaborate to get rid of the tories
Here's hoping, though I think of Johnson more as a front channel.
Labour down to 9% and losing half its voters says they have a tiny number of core voters.
In this area. Yes. And lots of them got wise. Hopefully people will play FPTP more than FPTP plays them, at the next general election.
I suspect back channel discussions are going on between the libdems and labour on the subject of how they might collaborate
Beth rigby reported this was the case a few weeks ago
Your not going to get Tory voters to vote for labour – no matter how badly the Tory’s are doing currently. It’s easier to get them to the libdem middle ground.
Is the pragmatic view. Was a good result for the country,not for any party.
It won't stop the Labour Party tearing itself apart blaming different factions and giving the Tories loads of "unfit to govern" ammunition of course.
Labour don’t campaign in rural Tory seats
They did campaign at least to some extent. The result would've been easily explicable if they'd just run a paper candidate, but they sent Rayner up there last week.
As I said, it's unwise to read too much into a single result, but Labour sure as hell isn't going to regain power if the left stays at home and centrists vote Lib Dem.
With Corbyn, Abbot, Long-Bailey, Butler and others voting against minimal public health measures now common across the continent, at a crucial moment in this pandemic… labelling them as looking like they want to lead a protest group, rather than people ready to govern, looks fair right now. Depressing.
The in-bed support of the right that the rest of Labour gave the Tories earlier in the week will very much come back to bite them in the arse.
Also I can't see a progressive alliance forming in the way that is being suggested.
If there is leader like Truss I can see the Libdems getting into bed with her - if it came to that.
But to be fair so many scenarios these days. So much will happen in the next couple of years that I can't see the wood for the trees.
The in-bed support of the right that the rest of Labour gave the Tories earlier in the week will very much come back to bite them in the arse.
With another huge wave of covid about to crash on the already exhausted NHS front line staff
I'm not sure it won't be those that sided with the covid denying hard right of the Tories that look daft
I NE of my colleagues travelling back to parents today as she was called in to work last Xmas and never got to see them, and is worried its all happening again
Don't let those nasty anti-semites lie, even if they happen to be jewish and not anti-semitic.
With another huge wave of covid about to crash on the already exhausted NHS front line staff
I’m not sure it won’t be those that sided with the covid denying hard right of the Tories that look daft
You know as well as I do those measures were nowhere near enough or correctly targeted.
From the article:
Neslen is a member of Jewish Voice for Labour, which says it knows of 42 Jewish members of the Labour party, two of whom have since died, who have faced or are facing disciplinary charges relating to allegations of antisemitism. The group estimates that more than five times more Jewish than non-Jewish Labour members have faced actioned complaints of antisemitism.
Those Jewish members who are 5 times more likely to be sanctioned for antisemitism are mostly members of JVL, some of who believe that Israel is by definition; racist, and are being sanctioned because Labour has adopted the IHRA definitions. It's a pretty good tactic to keep your campaign in the spot light.
It’s a pretty good tactic to keep your campaign in the spot light.
I think they'd probably prefer not to be persecuted for their legitimate beliefs and be repeatedly accused of anti-semitism despite being practising Jews. I can only imagine how upsetting/disturbing that must be. Why are Jewish Labour members being persecuted for not being zionists? I think I know...
Those Jewish members who are 5 times more likely to be sanctioned for antisemitism are mostly members of JVL
Labour's adoption of the IHRA definition (which is controversial anyway due to the late addition of examples which mainly relate to criticising Israel) is especially problematic when Israel is a racist state, as defined by groups like HRW. 'Support a racist state or you're a racist (against your own race)'. Seems legit.
Labour’s adoption of the IHRA definition is problematic when Israel is a racist state, as defined by groups like HRW. ‘Support a racist state or you’re a racist (against your own race)’.
Shall we have a fight about Israel? Or alternatively, given its a bad situation whatever your analysis but not one on which we have more than marginal influence, we could always not?
I think they’d probably prefer not to be persecuted for their legitimate beliefs
There's a dislocation though, you can't hold those beliefs and be a Labour member. Chose the one that's more important to you really. I suspect the optics of banning a Jewish group is the only reason that JVL haven't been proscribed by Labour thus far, but it's only going to end one way.
Shall we have a fight about Israel?
I don't see why not? Theres not much else going on at the moment. And we all know that a bunfight between the various Jewish sections attached to the labour party is usually at the forefront of everyones minds
