It's SKS' Labour Party who is picking the fight about Israel, not me, or even JVL.
But yes we've established that many people don't care if the Labour Party is ruthlessly silencing any criticism of an apartheid state and persecuting elderly Jews in the name of 'rooting out anti-semitism'.
There’s a dislocation though, you can’t hold those beliefs and be a Labour member.
They are protected beliefs. You can't make up a new rule for the Labour Party that proscribes protected beliefs. The idea that you now have to be pro-zionist to be a Labour Party member is mind-boggling.
Shall we have a fight about Israel?
That is certainly Keir Starmer's position. He is determined to stamp out any criticism of Israel. In fact it is so hugely important to him that he will have Labour Party members expelled for criticising Israel.
I don’t see why not? Theres not much else going on at the moment
Indeed. What else could Starmer be doing other than organising attacks on members of his own party?
You can’t make up a new rule for the Labour Party that proscribes protected beliefs.
So we're catch 22, the organisation that JVL are part of, has adopted the definitions that prohibits calling Israel a racist state, and are bound to take action against those that do. JVL believe that Israeli is a racist state, why would then want to continue your membership of the larger organisation?
Personally I think partly, because doing so amplifies their protest, which is fair enough, It's what I'd do as well. All's fair... and all that jazz.
The idea that you now have to be pro-zionist to be a Labour Party member is mind-boggling.
You need to come and have a chat with the Rabbi, There's probably not a congregation in the country that would agree on this. In fact I don't think if you gathered together a room full of Jews, they could agree, I can't begin to imagine how a political party makes a decision on it frankly. I'm glad I don't have to.
Has anyone noticed Starmers call this morning for leadership from the government in a time of national crisis rather than Tory party infighting, or were we too busy infighting about Israel again?
I was more concerned about what his stance is on trans rights
He's been very quiet about that
Makes you think....
or were we too busy infighting about Israel again?
Given that issues around anti Semitism was a pretty much constant drag on Corbyn's leadership, Starmer pledged to end anti-Semitism, and clearly it's still grinding on, and this is a thread about Starmer, I think @grum's post was legit. I don't see any issue raising it as a topic for discussion.
Given that th issues around anti semitism in the labour party were blown out of all proportion to damage corbyn and that anti zuionism is seen as anitsemitism by far too many folk?
Welsh Labour doing well
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1472942653792784387
a few post N shoropshire polls out soon too, interesting to see what a LD win there means for Labour nationally
-personally I think were seeing the anti-tory vote willing to lend their votes to any party that opposes them & starmer etc is fine with that- he was in n shropshire
-personally I think were seeing the anti-tory vote willing to lend their votes to any party that opposes them
old bexley doesnt support that does it?
A seat that with the subdued tory turnout Labour could have won in the same ways the lib dems did.
Starmer doubtedly wants people to think that Labour losing and coming third in the North Shropshire by-election was all part of a cunning plan of his.
However the reality is far more likely that Labour were completely incapable of mounting an effective campaign in the by-election.
The North Shropshire Labour candidate in the last three general elections secured for Labour two or three times more votes than the LibDems. However he was barred from standing even for the selection process on trumped charges of anti-Semitism (he once wore a badge with the Palestinian flag on it) Of course the real reason was that he wasn't a Blairite right-winger.
So instead a candidate which met with Starmer's approval was imposed and the by-election campaign was led by the party’s governing body the NEC.
The problem with pissing off your own members and waging civil war is that it has consequences, including destroying morale and struggling to find foot soldiers to do the essential election work.
Starmer would have loved to have won North Shropshire, the idea that he wanted the LibDems to win is nonsense, and if it were true anyway he should immediately resign his position as leader of the party.
And only a few months ago the instantly forgettable leader of the LibDems Ed Davey made it absolutely clear that he would not entertain the idea of a 'progressive alliance'.
Starmer would have loved to have won North Shropshire
Absolutely no chance. Under any Labour leader. Anyone who knows the area knows that.
And only a few months ago the instantly forgettable leader of the LibDems Ed Davey made it absolutely clear that he would not entertain the idea of a ‘progressive alliance’
You best sit down. I’ve got some news for you that might shock you…
Brace yourself…
Sometimes what politicians say in public and what they then go on to do aren’t necessarily the same thing.
I know! I spilt my Earl grey all over my new petticoat when somebody told me, I was so taken aback. Mother had to fetch the smelling salts
Absolutely no chance. Under any Labour leader. Anyone who knows the area knows that.
Lets take a quick look at some numbers shall we?
Tory vote 2021 12,032
Labour vote 2019 12,495
Labour vote 2017 17,287
So please explain your working without simply announcing that you are right.
At an actual election then yes probably not but this was eminently winnable for Labour as indeed was the Old Bexley seat.
In both cases though Starmer led Labour to a crashing defeat.
Err....
Starmer would have loved to have won North Shropshire
Absolutely no chance.
He would have been gutted if Labour had won?
If you mean that Labour stood absolutely no chance of winning that is precisely what I am saying.
It is nonsense to suggest that Labour didn't want to win, they knew that they didn't stand a chance.
There was no deal with the LibDems and if there was likely to be one in the future then vague overtures from its leader would be expected, whatever someone told binners whilst he was drinking Earl Grey wearing a petticoat.
In both cases though Starmer led Labour to a crashing defeat.
A party can't win elections when it's engaged in civil war.
The Labour Party is the party that hates itself. Starmer hated the candidate who in the last three general elections secured second place for Labour in a constituency which everyone agrees is not natural Labour territory.
The Labour Party is the party that hates itself.
The good news is that the Tories are catching you up with that.
Quite. And as you would expect is having a negative effect on the Tories.
A hundred Tory rebels has caused far more damage to Johnson than anything said by the Labour Leader.
Wasn’t that always inevitably going to be the case though?
When you embrace the swivel eyed loons to jettison the conservative bits of the Conservative party and expel half the rational ones and replace them with fellow nutjobs, nobody can hold that together
I just hope it goes the same way as it did when Labour insurgents elected an absolute idiot because it kept their extremists happy. They let the same idiot lose two elections.
I’d love the Tory’s to do the same. They won’t, obviously. They’ve more sense than thr. Just.
It is interesting to note that as someone who claims to be in the Labour Party, despite clearly hating it, you never miss an opportunity to attack its members binners.
So now you describe more than half the party, ie the majority, as "insurgents".
I’d love the Tory’s to do the same. They won’t, obviously. They’ve more sense than thr. Just.
Why on earth would a political party focus on fighting and expelling its members, unless it was some sort of Stalinist party or they simply wanted to ingratiate themselves with a hostile right-wing press?
It is interesting to note that as someone who claims to be in the Labour Party, despite clearly hating it, you never miss an opportunity to attack its members binners.
I don’t hate the Labour Party at all. I see it as a force for good and the only route to escape from Tory tyranny
And I don’t just claim to be a Labour Party member. I am one. Mad eh? I help with local election stuff and all-sorts. Bonkers eh?
Are you actually a member BTW? Don’t bother answering that. I reckon I can hazard a guess.
I never know whether I’m attacking fellow comrades or not because nine times out of ten, especially the ones gobbing off about the martyrdom of Saint Jeremy and Zionism, and anti-semitism and trans rights and all the usual things that really really matter to working class voters in Bury, aren’t actually members at all.
They’re generally just trying to impress someone in the common room and just a bit… well… you know…
Why on earth would a political party focus on fighting and expelling its members, unless it was some sort of Stalinist party or they simply wanted to ingratiate themselves with a hostile right-wing press?
You may want to check your tinfoil
helmet in there.
And in case you didn’t notice, Johnson ‘cleansed’ his party of anyone sane who wasn’t a true believer as soon as he got power.
How’s that working out for us all at the moment?
Now he’s nominally ‘in charge’ of a group of MPs who are fighting amongst themselves and presently 6-9% behind Labour in the polls
And I don’t just claim to be a Labour Party member. I am one. Mad eh?
You claiming to be a Labour Party member is indeed mad. Despite being a prolific poster on political threads you spend far more time attacking the Labour Party, its politicians, and its members, than you do arguing the case for the Labour Party and its policies.
In fact do you ever make the case for Labour? Apart from the occasional nice thing you might say about Andy Burnham I'm not sure I can ever recall you doing so.
But you do encapsulate the very attitude which has screwed the Labour Party..... right-wing, intolerant, and convinced that the way forward is through infighting and expulsions. So in that way at least I am grateful that you provide a constant reminder of just how bankrupt Labour's right-wing is 😊
If I was a member of Bury's working class I'd be seriously offended by some of the patronising homophobic Little Englander comments on here which are meant to represent me.
Are you actually a member BTW? Don’t bother answering that. I reckon I can hazard a guess.
Not that it was directed at me but I have previously been a member and not that long ago.
It is indeed indicative of the identity crisis Labour has where left-wing members of a supposedly left wing party are hounded out, ridiculed and made to feel no longer welcome - while right-wingers consider themselves to be the true soul of the party.
And in case you didn’t notice, Johnson ‘cleansed’ his party of anyone sane who wasn’t a true believer as soon as he got power.
How’s that working out for us all at the moment?
So now you're saying purging is a bad thing, unless it's being done to left wing 'insurgents'?
If I was a member of Bury’s working class I’d be seriously offended by some of the patronising homophobic Little Englander comments on here which are meant to represent me
Patronising, I’m fine with. I’ll take ‘Little Englander’ as meaning I don’t publicly declare my concern for the people of the West Bank often enough
Homophobic? If you can give me some examples of that, comrade?
gobbing off about the martyrdom of Saint Jeremy and Zionism, and anti-semitism and trans rights and all the usual things that really really matter to working class voters in Bury
Tell us more about working class voters in Bury, from the perspective of a graphic designer in Ramsbottom.
Ps Andy Capp is not a documentary.
Jeez I go down the pub with Binners and then he gets into an argument with Ernie when he gets home. He seemed to be in such a good mood too 😀
I blame our repeated failure to ever discuss politics while in the pub
That and my homophobia
That and my homophobia
Well you do have to watch for all these lefty bumboys.
I never know whether I’m attacking fellow comrades or not because nine times out of ten, especially the ones gobbing off about the martyrdom of Saint Jeremy and Zionism, and anti-semitism and trans rights and all the usual things that really really matter to working class voters in Bury, aren’t actually members at all
I am a working class voter in Barry - do I count? Also are you using comrade in your usual derogatory way in the above paragraph binbins? I can't tell.
They’re generally just trying to impress someone in the common room and just a bit… well… you know…
This thread is like a common room, and the most keen to impress person is? The one with the "funny" pictures and "funny" rants maybe?
It was clearly a brutal blow not being allowed into the sixth form but I see no virtue in mocking the afflicted.
My homophobia and lack of education aside, Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s, and look like they even might be on for winning an election, you don’t seem very happy about the fact
Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s, and look like they even might be on for winning an election
Starmer's been extremely lucky with the tory implosion. It won't last though as they'll soon be shot of Johnson and consolidated behind a new leader (which probably won't last TBF). He should sieze the opportunity to put an end to his self-defeating and pointless civil war against his membership. Imagine what a united labour party could do against these self-serving idiots? That 20 point lead in the polls might yet be achievable.
Starmer must now be favourite for the next election whoever the Tory leader is.
Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s, and look like they even might be on for winning an election, you don’t seem very happy about the fact
LOL! For someone who usually finds something to rant about you've got a nerve accusing BillMC of not sounding happy! 😊
And btw before you get too carried away with "well ahead" in the polls you might like to reflect on the fact that throughout most of 2012 Labour had a double digit lead over the Tories and yet despite that, and despite 5 years of austerity, the Tories went on to comfortably win the 2015 general election.
As far as I am aware Labour haven't had a double digit lead over the Tories for years, not even midterm.
Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s,
The two stunning byelection victories only reinforce that.
Remember any proper leader would be at least 20 points ahead it isnt looking great for the glorious leader to be honest.
Why should we vote for a poor copy of the libdems and not just the libdems?
And btw before you get too carried away with “well ahead” in the polls you might like to reflect on the fact that throughout most of 2012 Labour had a double digit lead over the Tories and yet despite that, and despite 5 years of austerity, the Tories went on to comfortably win the 2015 general election.
Yep, this. There are plenty of home counties types who, safely mid-term, will say 'Ooh, that Boris is terrible, I wouldn't vote for him!'. But when it comes to it, at a General Election, would they seriously put their money where their mouth is, when the risk is getting a Labour government? They'll put their tick next to Lord Haw Haw just like they always do.
Blimey! You’re little rays of sunshine, positivity and optimism you lot, aren’t you? 😂
I actually think you absolutely love having a Tory government, the more ‘orrible the better, so you’ve got something to endlessly moan about when you’re not banging on about Israel
The one thing you love more is when Labour actually got elected.! Because then the real whining could start. How dare they be in power
?! The bastards!! Who the hell do they think that they are?!
You’ve never forgiven Blair and Brown for winning power, and you’d similarly damn Starmer if he spoiled all your ‘fun’ too.
That’s why you loved Grandad so much. Like an old comfort blanket of guaranteed defeat, bitterness, injustice and vocal disgruntlement
It’s like political munchausens syndrome. You bloody love it at the moment, don’t you. Let’s all just admit it?!
I’ now convinced that the last thing on earth you actually want is a Labour government as it’s guaranteed to be the ‘wrong sort’ of one. 😃
Increasingly desperate trolling binners. You've not posted a Monty Python pic for a while btw.
Been at the ol' sherbet again binners?
Btw I'm loving the "so you’ve got something to endlessly moan about" and "Because then the real whining could start"
Your lack of self-awareness is hilarious! 😀
I'd be interested in anything he's proposing to do in office. He's rescinded his pledges, he won't use the 'S' word, he's driven out or expelled 000s of LP members, he's got an Israeli military spy running his media searches, he relies on big business for money, he helped keeping Assange in prison, he's an 'unqualified' supporter of apartheid zionism, he offered the NHS workers SFA. I've only ever voted Labour but I am struggling to think of why I might vote for him. Dare you, give us a policy.
