Is it?
Locally I've seen jobs requiring an MA qualification advertised at just over £12/hr. They have just appointed someone so on that basis I would say yes. Ok it's one job in one sector but the person who told me this was moaning about how many applicants they had had to wade through
A low wage economy serves the top earners/asset holders.
Anyone remotely progressive would see this as the number one problem.
The elephant in the room being automation. If you make some jobs ‘too expensive’ then companies will be spurred to automate them out of existence.
The real elephant in the room is the supposed need for constant economic growth which is making the planet increasingly uninhabitable for humans.
Automation is going to happen anyway, we need an actual plan to deal with it - some sort of UBI I would assume will be part of it.
But I'm sure Keir Starmer's radical programme is fully ready to deal with these kinds of issues, and is definitely not just designed to try and win the 1997 election again but this time with the least charismatic leader possible.
Locally I’ve seen jobs requiring an MA qualification advertised at just over £12/hr. They have just appointed someone so on that basis I would say yes. Ok it’s one job in one sector but the person who told me this was moaning about how many applicants they had had to wade through
That just shows there's a lack of decent jobs for graduates. You have a very strange take on it IMO.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1442746300714336256?s=19
Got to laugh at the liberal Dunts of the world.
Why are they surprised?
I'm sure he said a functioning opposition was coming ...
£15 an hour would increase demand which in turn would help absorb costs. Lower paid workers have a lower marginal rate to import. Someone needs to make the machines for automation. Investment in the UK has been comparatively low due to the availability of cheap labour. High wage economies have a higher level of investment and a higher standard of living eg Norway. Surprising how many magic money tree and austerity-type arguments people have swallowed.
A low wage economy serves the top earners/asset holders.
Anyone remotely progressive would see this as the number one problem.
Wouldn’t remotely disagree with that but a one size fits all solution doesn’t work. A better solution would be a wholesale simplification of the tax system to ensure that above a safety net threshold everyone pays the same proportion of tax on income no matter how earned removing all the ‘family trust’ and similar dodges which allow people to claim they are ‘humble tenants’ who just happen to have sole benefit of the charity or trust.
When everyone is paying the same proportion of tax and getting the same pension benefits we would stand a chance of making fair comparisons
Someone sent me the terms and conditions for a local public school which offered discounts/bursaries to people on low wages. They had a clause which basically said if your circumstances don’t match your declared income don’t be surprised when we turn you down. It didn’t seem like a bad principle to work from
Properly rubbish from all sides of Labour at the minute though. National crisis, the Army on stand-by, the RW press are against Johnson and his mob, where's the opposition? Nowhere.
Starmer, as far as I can tell hasn't said **** all, and hasn't got a plan other than to stand there looking like he's lost his keys, Corbyn's army seem content to fight the same battles over and over and over again until the heat death of the sun, ignoring everything that's happening around them. What's the point of Labour if it can't even get it's act together when an opportunity like this is handed to them on a plate.
****ers (onanists)
euuurgh, Ian Dunt saying same thing as me...yuck
Jeez, the sight of of supposed lefties on here complaining that a £15 an hour minimum wage will make their shopping more expensive. Especially as it's economically illiterate as rone has explained. How many other tory economic myths have you swallowed? National credit cards, fixing the roof when the sun is shining, trickle down economics, bankrupting the country, wealth 'creators'?
Starmer, as far as I can tell hasn’t said **** all
The main announcement of the conference was from his chancellor that we would need to show 'fiscal restraint' and make 'hard choices'. In other words labour are now officially pro-austerity, even though they won the argument on that years ago and many tories, including the present and previous PMs don't agree with it. It's a shambles, just a rehashing of 25 year old new labour slogans without any consideration of the modern context.
I think you have to give Starmer a chance to do his speech before judging his conference. Maybe it will be an absolute barn stormer. I heard a snippet of him arguing for the leadership rule changes and he sounded OK! (NB I'm against the rule changes)
the sight of of supposed lefties on here complaining that a £15 an hour minimum wage will make their shopping more expensive
I certainly wasn't complaining. My major concern with it is that the electorate will not swallow it as an affordable or possible idea. The plan will certainly not wash with the RW media. If Labour go down this route it will be used as a stick to beat them with. How do you suppose Labour get around that issue?
The plan will certainly not wash with the RW media. If Labour go down this route it will be used as a stick to beat them with. How do you suppose Labour get around that issue?
So if labour should only have policies which please the RW media what's the point in them? They get around that issue by having the balls to argue for an alternative, standing by their principles and persuading people that they will be better off under labour. If they can't be arsed to do that then they don't deserve to be in government.
My major concern with it is that the electorate will not swallow it as an affordable or possible idea.
What will actually happen, is that those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo will use their considerable power and influence over the media to disseminate all kinds of bullshit about how bad such an idea will be for the nation, whilst throwing in all sorts of red herrings about 'immigrants' benefitting more than Hardworking British People™ from it, and lo; the General Public will lap it up and oppose it without realising it's in most of our best interests. See; Brexit.
That is not what I said at all. They had the balls to argue for an alternative under Corbyn twice and it failed. How do you get the message out that £15 an hour is credible without getting slated? Look what happened when they talked about free broadband.
I am not arguing they shouldn't do it I am asking how they get people on side that it is a good idea? The alternative is more Tory rule.
How do you get the message out that £15 an hour is credible without getting slated?
By controlling the media. Or at least having some of it on your side.
What will actually happen, is that those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo will use their considerable power and influence
I'm already bored of hearing from folks who earn considerably more than £15/hour telling anyone who'll listen why this cannot possibly work.
That is not what I said at all.
You'll get used to that.
Avoiding publishing the next manifesto alternative budget is going to get harder and harder for Labour, but they have to stick to it. Proposing a £15 minimum wage by the end of the first term of a Labour government would a reassuring thing to see in that manifesto, when the time is right. Any suggestion that Labour are calling for an immediate 50%+ rise in the minimum wage right now would be shouting from the roof tops that Labour are way to the left of the electorate. Now, that's exactly what some want to see happening now, and others are doing their best to avoid. It's just a very neat and simple example to have that battle about. Which is why it's happening. Meanwhile, that battle is letting the Government, that looked like it might be about to hang on to the ropes to avoid hitting the matt, retire to the changing room to clean up, cover up its wounds, and get ready to come out battling against an obviously divided Labour party that has wasted time putting itself on the back foot. Again.
By controlling the media. Or at least having some of it on your side.
And how do you go about doing that?
What will actually happen, is that those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo will use their considerable power and influence over the media to disseminate all kinds of bullshit about how bad such an idea will be for the nation, whilst throwing in all sorts of red herrings about ‘immigrants’ benefitting more than Hardworking British People™ from it, and lo; the General Public will lap it up and oppose it without realising it’s in most of our best interests. See; Brexit.
Exactly this.
Keep pointing out that the Tories deficit etc record is actually worse than Labour's. Keep pointing out that the terrible hard brexit deal is making everything massively worse. Keep pointing out that our current system subsidises companies like Amazon and Walmart. Be bold.
That would be a start.
Use some of the reserves built up under Corbyn to pay for borderline shady targeted social media campaigns. Oh no wait...
Hanging on waiting for the Tories to **** up even worse than they have is desperate stuff.
£15- It's too much too soon for the electorate.
Why not £12 or £12.50?
What about the shite minimum wage for younger people?
£6.56 for 18-20!
And how do you go about doing that?
You tell me. Seeing as how most of our national media channels are owned and controlled by extremely wealthy establishment figures, it's a pretty difficult task. The General Public get told how to think, and they mostly slavishly follow their orders. It's about breaking that cycle of subservience. You have to change the narrative, feed the media some red herrings, lead them down a path where they can expose themselves as partisan, let the public see that, help enable more critical thinking of the media and how information is disseminated, and why. Start getting people to think for themselves. One way is through grassroots campaigning on the ground; get people together to share ideas, free of any media dictation. The 2017 campaign worked well on this score; many younger people used SM channels to communicate and share ideas, rather than relying on the mainstream media to do so. Hence why the tories then went and spent shitloads of public money on disruptive and deceitful SM campaigns. It's not an easy task, but the narrative must be changed. Time to start breaking the 'rules'. Starmer, alas, isn't a rule breaker. The **** can't even engage with his own party members effectively ffs, so what chance does he have of engaging the wider electorate?
They had the balls to argue for an alternative under Corbyn twice and it failed.
In 2017 they significantly increased their vote share and number of MPs. They failed to get over the line because of internal factional fighting from the right wing who did everything they could to prevent a labour victory. Labour did fail, but not because they were saying the wrong things or because they had the wrong policies, or because they weren't friendly enough to the RW media.
They failed to get over the line because of internal factional fighting from the right wing who did everything they could to prevent a labour victory.
Is that what the voters said and believe or is that what the Corbyn supporters insist?
What about the shite minimum wage for younger people?
And what about those who can only work reduced hours, or not at all?
Is that what the voters said and believe or is that what the Corbyn supporters insist?
It's actually what happened. Plenty of evidence for that, if you care enough to want to learn.
What about the shite minimum wage for younger people?
£6.56 for 18-20!
Try being 17. My son is at college to learn a trade. We can support him but only to a certain extent so he has got off his x-boxing arse to go out and get real-life work experience and to earn money to support himself. Gets paid less than £5 an hour just because of his age. That type of practice should be illegal. Its unfair to the folks that bother themselves to earn. He does the same job, on the same hours, at less than half the wage of a colleague who is 5 years older.
feed the media some red herrings, lead them down a path where they can expose themselves as partisan, let the public see that,
It's a crazy scheme! Maybe just crazy enough to work...*
*Nah.
It’s actually what happened.
What happened in 2017 is the post coalition lib vote collapsed, going to Tory (whose vote share went up 6%) as well as to Labour, who were 64 seats short of a majority. This loss is painted as a victory for Corbyn by his supporters. Good fun for them maybe, but not helpful.
It’s actually what happened. Plenty of evidence for that, if you care enough to want to learn.
There might have been divisions within the Labour Party but Brexit seems to be the issue that decided the 2017 election. Labour benefitted from the anti-hard brexit vote, especially amongst the young.
It’s a crazy scheme! Maybe just crazy enough to work…*
*Nah.
Why not? Bring a few self-celebritised 'journalists' down to size. Feed them the bullshit, but feed your own 'trusted' journos the real stuff, then they end up looking stupid when their story is different to everyone else's. I'd love to see the likes of Keunssberg, Marr etc destroyed. Propagandists for the establishment; they give proper journalism a bad name.
What happened in 2017 is the post coalition lib vote collapsed, going to Tory (whose vote share went up 6%) as well as to Labour, who were 64 seats short of a majority. This loss is painted as a victory for Corbyn by his supporters. Good fun for them maybe, but not helpful.
Yet had Labour presented as a united force, perhaps enough people may have voted for them, believing them to be united, things may have turned out differently. The undermining by the right of the party was designed purely to work against Corbyn. And who was in charge of the Labour's Brexit strategy? Oh...
Penny starting to drop now?
Laura The Liar's latest propaganda piece:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58713106
"Many of Sir Keir's supporters were spotted in the crush of conference jubilant last night - delighted that they had managed to get changes to the rules through, increasing their control of the party.
But Monday's events show that control is not yet complete. The left won't go quietly.
The plans the party wants you to see may be hard to hear above the noise."
The Left is still here, Laira. And we're not going away. Soz about that.
By controlling the media. Or at least having some of it on your side.
Maybe ask Blair how it is done, he did it in 97...
Maybe ask Blair how it is done, he did it in 97…
By getting into Bed with a foreign media magnate. The very same media magnate who supported Donald Trump via his Fox News channel. So; someone who helps facilitate far-right wing ideology and power. Do you propose that Starmer does the same?
And who was in charge of the Labour’s Brexit strategy? Oh…
you mean, to tickle a trope, who was the shadowy figure pulling Corbyn's strings?
Penny starting to drop now?
evidently it hasn't
you mean, to tickle a trope, who was the shadowy figure pulling Corbyn’s strings?
Lol! And still, the idiocy continues!
Well, you tell me. What do YOU think?
evidently it hasn’t
Well, you can lead a horse to water...
Fazzini 100% agree. It's a shocker. Labour under Corbyn got lots of young people engaged. Keir could do the same with a policy on the minimum wage for young people. Jesus it's so blatantly unfair!
Starmer clearly doesn't care about young people though. The way he blatantly ignored that young woman, was disgusting. That video's gone viral; loads of young people we know are sharing it. That's another big chunk of voters lost then. Way to go, Kier! It's almost like he doesn't want ANYONE voting for Labour...
The Left is still here, Laira. And we’re not going away. Soz about that.
IIRC you aren't a member, Binners is, don't think he's going away either
Propagandists for the establishment
The BBC is part of the establishment however you define it.
IIRC you aren’t a member
I'm still a Leftie, and a potential Labour voter. And WTF has this to do with Binners? Are you his spokesperson, or just a sycophant?
Raising the minimum wage was not one of the 10 pledges Sir Keir made when running for the Labour leadership last year.
But he supported a campaign in 2019 for fast food chain McDonald's to improve pay and conditions.
At the time, he said: "They're not asking for the Earth. They're asking for the basics - £15 an hour, the right to know their hours in advance and to have trade union recognition. That ought to be the norm in 21st Century Britain."
My bold. What's changed Keir? Mandelson told you you weren't allowed to sound like a commie?
I’m still a Leftie,
But not a member of labour
and a potential Labour voter.
So not voting for them at the moment then
And WTF has this to do with Binners? Are you his spokesperson, or just a sycophant?
He's one of the few labour party members on this thread, helps his CLP, tries to get labour politicians elected
It’s almost like he doesn’t want ANYONE voting for Labour…
One of my work colleagues who is an unashamed white supremacist reactionary brexit voting UKIP type told me this morning that he would be prepared to vote for Starmer if 'he can sort out his party', so he seems to be quite good attracting those sorts of people. 😳
that he would be prepared to vote for Starmer
Still counts when it's a competition to see who gets the most votes.
