But not a member of labour
And? Do you have to be a member of Labour to be a Leftie?
So not voting for them at the moment then
Not until they more closely resemble a party that represents working people, and is committed to helping create a better society. Because currently, they aren't.
He’s one of the few labour party members on this thread
Yet you could just as easily have mentioned any of the several other party members.
helps his CLP, tries to get labour politicians elected
I'm sure he's flattered by the crush you clearly have on him, but how do you know I, or any others, haven't done exactly the same?
Not until they more closely resemble a party that represents working people, and is committed to helping create a better society. Because currently, they aren’t.
For a lot of people who live in a Tory/Labour swing seat not voting labour will result in more Tory. Would it not be better to hold your nose and vote Labour rather than get the Tories again?
If you live in a solid seat for either party I can understand this stance.
Someone on UKC summed it up nicely...
The UK electorate is about 38 million people
The Labour party membership is about 500,000 people
The Labour "left" say the Labour "right" isn't 'left' enough
The Labour "right" say the Labour "left" isn't electable
The Labour membership is in the grip of powerful vested interests - the unions refuse to compromise, Momentum seems to refuse to compromise
The 37.5 million non-Labour members watch on in disbelief at how myopic the 'opposition' has become, and how they only ever seem to focus on their internal differences - they 'oppose' themselves.
I don't care whether Labour policy stands for £10 or £15. I don't care because at this rate they're never going to be in government. I would prefer that they focused on this ridiculous, corrupt shambles that currently occupies the Government benches and actually, with one voice, provided some opposition. When that happens, they can then get together and compromise on £12.50 and may one day find themselves in with a shot of persuading a majority to vote for them.
And, breathe
T&T
That sums up exactly how I feel, it is a joke, and neither side is helping.
Similar sentiments expressed by Marina Hyde
https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/1442832471138177025?s=20
Ah, Marina Hyde. Uses a lot of words; doesn't really say very much.
Hyde is the daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet, and his wife, the former Diana Elizabeth Jane Duncan. Through her father, she is the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams, 1st Baronet. She attended Downe House School, near Newbury in Berkshire, and read English at Christ Church, Oxford.
I can see how you like her, Binners.
Not forgetting Starmer and half the shadow cabinet alienating female supporters with their 'cervix' mumblings.
I know of many women that have worked hard for the party over the years, canvasing door to door that will not support the current stance on 'identity politics' nor vote Labour in an election.
It is a gift to the Tories.
Oh surely not the 'Marina Hyde is a champagne socialist' trope again. Marvellous.
One of my work colleagues who is an unashamed white supremacist reactionary brexit voting UKIP type told me this morning that he would be prepared to vote for Starmer if ‘he can sort out his party’, so he seems to be quite good attracting those sorts of people.
Cool story, Bro.
I imagine he was winding you up given your tendencies. 🙄
Oh surely not the ‘Marina Hyde is a champagne socialist’ trope again. Marvellous.
Where did anyone say she was a 'socialist'?
Not until they more closely resemble a party that represents working people, and is committed to helping create a better society. Because currently, they aren’t.
So are you voting at all? If you are who for?
Or do you just spoil the ballot paper by writing "f*** off Tory scum and your establishment stooges in the labour party!"
Or do you just stay at home/ go to some protest or other/ go to the pub / ride your bike
I know of many women that have worked hard for the party over the years, canvasing door to door that will not support the current stance on ‘identity politics’ nor vote Labour in an election.
It's the kryptonite of the left, the conservatives get away with it because they aren't expected to sign up to the simplified slogans that certain lobbies insist on.
So are you voting at all? If you are who for?
Yes. None of your business.
Or do you just spoil the ballot paper by writing “f*** off Tory scum and your establishment stooges in the labour party!”
Or do you just stay at home/ go to some protest or other/ go to the pub / ride your bike
What? Have you had too much caffeine today or something?
I can see how you like her, Binners.
Because she's funny?
Oh, is she? I hadn't noticed. We obviously have different senses of humour. But then, you like what Greggs call 'food', so...
Yes.
Happy to hear that
None of your business.
Not sure that is the message you are sending on a thread on SKS and labour politics, if you secretly vote conservative to stick it to the red Tory establishment stooges it's not a problem you know.
Well as I pointed out in a debate with Ernielynch the European left shouldn't be written off yet. The SPD is the single biggest party in Germany which is quite a revival. A Rot, Rot, Grüne coalition won't work but there's a slightly better than 50/50 chance the SPD will be in the ruling coalition. Spain socialist, Germany left of center. There's hope for Labour yet if they can get any kind of act together.
Starmer should go, that much is clear. He's gone back on the commitments he made in double quick time and revealed himself as an old-school Tory (as opposed to the new-school populist Tories in power). That won't win him or Labour an election, he needs to convince the people that he has policies they would benefit from and is failing because he won't commit to them.
Not sure that is the message you are sending on a thread on SKS and labour politics, if you secretly vote conservative to stick it to the red Tory establishment stooges it’s not a problem you know.
Seriously, lay off the caffeine or whatever it is that's making you think up such nonsense.
Hyde is the daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet, and his wife, the former Diana Elizabeth Jane Duncan. Through her father, she is the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams, 1st Baronet. She attended Downe House School, near Newbury in Berkshire, and read English at Christ Church, Oxford.
The Guardian employing privately educated Oxbridge journalists, what a surprise!
Seriously, lay off the caffeine or whatever it is that’s making you think up such nonsense.
I'm not the one who won't vote labour, won't say who he is voting for, yet still incessantly posts on a politics thread about SKS
Is it?
Why do I have to say who I'm voting for? I thought it was a 'secret' ballot?
Definitely a shy Tory then
Lol! Ok then. You carry on believing that. Like all the other shite you believe. That is, after all, your choice. The only 'shy tories' are people like you. Blairites who think neoliberalism is the way forward. Christ on a bike. 😀
Bridges, would you prefer a Tory government or a Labour one run by the likes of SKS? Not voting for Labour, depending on constituency, is giving the Tories your vote.
Why do I have to say who I’m voting for? I thought it was a ‘secret’ ballot?
It is secret if you want it to be. I am happy to break the secret and tell you I vote Green. They are closer to what I want/stand for than Labour (even more so with Starmer "leading")
IT is just an interesting topic, who gets the disillusioned Labour voters vote as there is not much choice from where I am sitting.
I'd take an SKS led governemnt over a Tory one but I'll vote Lib Dem or Plaid if ever I get a vote.
class warrior whinging about Marina Hyde?
surely we can do better than that
her article is pretty good summary of why the conference has been a shambles, if it had been a quiet week in the news labour would be in trouble right now
her comments were generally bang on
Some legend in his own lunchtime resigned yesterday afternoon from the shadow cabinet. At a Tribune rally last night, this Andy McDonald was lionised alongside John McDonnell for quitting over the “point of principle” that the minimum wage should be £15. Less than 12 months ago, McDonnell called for Covid “heroes” to be rewarded by raising the minimum wage to £10.
Labour has spent whatever this conference costs to stage looking like a bunch of amateurs. Starmer’s entire Marr interview, Reeves spectacularly failing the pap test, Rayner, Thornberry suggesting Rayner was pissed, the Corbyn brothers giving it the big I am: these are the viral horrors that seep into the general consciousness while real life is happening elsewhere
At the heart of it all, Keir Starmer remains the sort of person things happen to – a reactor to events rather than someone who might have the potential to shape them. He feels like the inveterate advocate who waits for others to be judge and jury. Labour appears to have spent the past 18 months hoping to look like the least-worst option in the wake of an appallingly mismanaged pandemic. The polls thought differently. The party now appears to be waiting for a winter of discontent to look like the least-worst option.
also
clarkpm4242
Free Member
Not forgetting Starmer and half the shadow cabinet alienating female supporters with their ‘cervix’ mumblings.I know of many women that have worked hard for the party over the years, canvasing door to door that will not support the current stance on ‘identity politics’ nor vote Labour in an election.
It is a gift to the Tories.
worth pointing out that labour getting drawn into the identity politics trap is being driven by owen jones & many on the far left as well as the centrists, personally I think its a bigger issue that people realise & the tories wont hesitate to use it against labour
they really need to get a clear stance on it
Less than 12 months ago, McDonnell called for Covid “heroes” to be rewarded by raising the minimum wage to £10.
Pretty sure he said at least £10.
the identity politics trap is being driven by owen jones & many on the far left as well as the centrists
I think getting drawn into his cervix comments was really bloody dumb. He's going to have that thrown at him over and over again.
yep, it was "at least £10 an hour"
which is why I was surprised to see the upset that Starmer wasnt going to back a £15 one
I think getting drawn into his cervix comments was really bloody dumb. He’s going to have that thrown at him over and over again.
He seemed surprised, for a second I though it was about hysterctomies!
Labour need an answer to the question, its going to be a tiny issue used to hammer them otherwise, its exactluy the sort of culture war issue the Tories would love to focus on
Bridges, would you prefer a Tory government or a Labour one run by the likes of SKS?
Neither, thanks.
class warrior whinging about Marina Hyde?
Erm, there wasn't actually any 'whinging', other than in your imagination. As for her actual piece; it's basic cut n paste formulaic unimaginative dross, without any real insight or nuance. There are far better, more intelligent commentators I'd pay attention to first.
But then; I don't really read the Guardian much. It's become a bit of a tabloid; Hyde's position there only confirms that.
Erm, there wasn’t actually any ‘whinging’,
But then; I don’t really read the Guardian much. It’s become a bit of a tabloid; Hyde’s position there only confirms that
Definitely a shy Tory then
Got to love the irony of this comment, coming from someone who claimed to want:
".... that the first thing Kier Starmer is going to do is have a night of the long knives to clear out every last one of the utterly useless Corbynites"
Just to be clear; the original Night of the Long Knives was an event where Hitlers Brownshirts murdered many Left wing politicians and activists, in order to consolidate power. So; Binners espouses and endorses fascist actions. It's right there in black and white, people.
Still no actual 'whinging', as you imagine, Kimbers. Simply statement of fact I'm afraid.
I'm definitely not inviting you to my next book burning if you're going to be like that about it.
which is why I was surprised to see the upset that Starmer wasnt going to back a £15 one
kimbers
Full Memberwhich is why I was surprised to see the upset that Starmer wasnt going to back a £15 one
The point is that Starmer's already backed a £15 one. He's just done such a complete u-turn that he seems to have forgotten he ever had a different opinion.
So not only is his shadow cabinet now being ordered to oppose something he previously said he supported, which is difficult enough; people are asking, what are his commitments worth? The minimum wage increase has been rowed back so much now that it's not an increase at all, as I mentioned earlier he's demanding 7p more than the Tories are on track to deliver already. And that's his idea of ambitious policy setting.
I’m definitely not inviting you to my next book burning if you’re going to be like that about it.
Because Nazism is something to joke about, of course. Classy.
Ah, Marina Hyde. Uses a lot of words; doesn’t really say very much.
Hyde is the daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams, 2nd Baronet, and his wife, the former Diana Elizabeth Jane Duncan. Through her father, she is the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams, 1st Baronet. She attended Downe House School, near Newbury in Berkshire, and read English at Christ Church, Oxford.
I can see how you like her, Binners.
That really is pathetic. You slag off MH's writing, which gets me interested, but in your follow up you don't actually come up with any evidence or support for your statement, you just quote some crap about how hideously privileged and rich she is...
That comes across really bitter and chippy.
I think MH is awesome, but am happy to be re-educated by someone more literate and clued up than me ( most people TBH)
Perhaps you could try and educate me
Perhaps you could try and educate me
You will be lucky, mostly you will get snide comments about how you are wrong and not left enough and basically a Tory.
The point is that Starmer’s already backed a £15 one.
Where? Backing the call for higher wages for one set of workers, working for a huge company that can easily pay more, but refuses to, and has a long history of union busting to prevent collective bargaining and keep wages low, is not the same as calling for the statutory minimum wage be set at the same level.
Hyde's background is important. She is privileged establishment to her core & everything she writes must be read with that in mind. She is funny though.
More generally privately educated people are massively over represented in media and journalism.
Because Nazism is something to joke about, of course. Classy.
Of course it bloody is! It's given us some of the greatest comedy ever
Mind you, you don't strike me as someone who laughs at much, to be honest
So Starmer said he wanted £15 now says at least £10, McDonell said at least £10 and now wants £15
does seem daft for starmer to dismiss it.
though it was never 'a commitment' for £15 - beyond his interview about MaccyDs
Sadly what labour needed was some clear policy messages out of the conference, instead we have intense navel-gazing & factional name calling
all while the country is in meltdown
& if Bridges could point me to some of his far better comentators thatd be great (& Hyde is a satirist fwiw)
though it was never ‘a commitment’ for £15 – beyond his interview about MaccyDs
There is never a commitment with this version of Starmer's Labour.
£15 £10 £15 £10. If only there was a way to compromise on this issue!
There is never a commitment with this version of Starmer’s Labour.
partly, but thats really what the conference is for - to work out policy
if the policy is to keep Corbyns commitment to 'at least a £10 minimum wage' , then thats dissapointing , but at least its something
