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Competent at what?
Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.
Competence at everything he's set out to achieve? Rare quality in a politician. Especially compared to the current incompetent twonk in number ten who has failed upwards at everything he's ever done
I’m sorry but I’m not one of these people who thinks that sitting back and waiting for this car crash government to possibly implode is what leading a strong opposition is about. I know what he was in the past, I know he seems articulate and has a certain level of intelligence hence his former profession. I still don’t know what drives him, where he wants the party to go etc. He is devoid of character for me and unfortunately that is very important for the electorate as a whole.
Competence is a key thing for politicians. Look at Sturgeon. She appears to be truthfull and competent and that's the foundation for her and the SNPs popularity. It's a slow burner but it has a huge effect. Even staunch unionists have respect for her.
The same will happen with Starmer. The comparison with the Tory incompetence and lies will have its effect. We already see it happening and although slow it's a powerful and long lasting effect
He is devoid of character for me and unfortunately that is very important for the electorate as a whole.
Not important to me… evidence led rather than ego led policy would be a breath of fresh air in number ten. But as I said well before he even entered the leadership contest… he would make a great PM… he would have the intelligence to handle the brief, and would care enough to do the job to the best of his considerable abilities… but he will never get the chance to prove it… he does not have the charisma to win in a first past the post system. I’d love him to be PM… but it just won’t happen, sadly.
I agree but it’s not the world we live in unfortunately.
Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.
Johnson is digging his own hole at a pace right now. No need for Starmer to commit to much and why hand the Tories and their journo mates anything to get a finger hold in?
Johnson won the election by going AWOL, avoiding scrutiny and not being Jeremy Corbyn. All Starmer has to do is hold up Johnson's oafish policies, attitude, and shower of dildos in the 'top team' to a bit of scrutiny. Get the preposterous bullshit in the public consciousness.
Starmer doesn't need to be proactive in any way with the rickety Bullshit Bus hurtling from disaster to disaster.
He's not doing himself any favours in the visibility stakes.
At least with Boris, we know he's hiding in the fridge. No idea where Starmer's gone.
Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way
Do you really believe that?
“Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way”
With that thought process do Labour even deserve to win the next election with Starmer?
It’s easy when in opposition to just highlight when somebody does something wrong especially Boris. That’s not enough for me. That’s why Labour will lose again with that attitude. People need to know what he’s about, his passions, what is he trying to achieve, a long term vision. He’s not going to win just because he isn’t Boris.
To paraphrase Napoleon (yet again)...
Never interrupt your enemy when they’re in the process of massively ****ing things up.
In the same way that Johnson won an election by basically not being Jeremy Corbyn, it seems that the reduction of his 26 point poll lead to zero in less than a year would indicate the ‘not being Boris Johnson’ clause is now very much in play
Starmer doesn’t need to be proactive in any way
Do you really believe that?
Given the 80 seat majority, what more do we think he could do, other than call out the constant stream of bullshit and corruption?
Bearing in mind the previous regime, competence at being able to find the toilet would be an improvement.
That's rather generous. Current performances suggest the PM would struggle to find both arse cheeks in a well lit room.
The record defeat of Labour at the last effectively removed any meaningful opposition.
Theres no amount of stamping your feet and saying evil Tories that’s going to make a difference.
Do you really believe that?
Right now, yes. Absolutely.
Why give Johnson and the right wing gutter press (which includes the Telegraph nowadays) anything they can use in return? Anything they can twist.
For now, it really is a case of sitting back and letting Johnson keep digging his own political grave. That was what the 'bring it on' soundbite was all about. Let an increasingly desperate fraud like Johnson make the running. If he goes for a personal attack (which he will because he hasn't got anything else) just smack his fat arse back with any of the innumerable examples where Johnson is a hypocrite and leave it there.
Brexit is going to be such a monumental national embarrassment, there is no need to do anything for now. At the right time he just needs to highlight any of the softer Brexits that would have made a difference. The tories will try to blame covid, but all Starmer will need to do is point over the channel.
If I was Starmer the main thing I would be working on is a roadmap back to accepting pretty much full regulatory alignment and renegotiating the deal on that basis. When things get really bad next year, he just gives Barnier a cheeky call and says "If I say we can be back in 'x' by whatever date and the benefits will be 'y' and 'z' and immediate, will you back me up?"
Barnier, who must loathe Johnson and his rabble with a passion will happily play along. The EU would probably like us back at some point, in some capacity, with a freshly smacked backside and a promise not to do it again.
Starmers job is to make Boris look like a lying, incompetent, thick as shit, C**t. He is doing a good job as Boris cant cope with analytics... and cant follow a "defence" script.
Starmer knows there is a epic shit show coming in January... either Boris folds like a wet napkin or jumps off the cliff and Starmer knows this.
He also knows that Rishi will inherit this... Starmer and his team just need to sit back and point out how shite they are. Rishi is doomed he can not keep his party and the great unwashed happy - just not possible.
Rishi is doomed he can not keep his party and the great unwashed happy – just not possible.
And don't forget that his creditors (our creditors) aren't going to keep doling out the sweeties to fund an epic political fail.
Even the utterly irresponsible shit the Tories are banging on about with six months to file imports paperwork - that can easily be negated. Some lorries still go from Dover to Calais, right? The UK has effectively waved every Tom, Dick or Harry through. But if the EU insist on full checks going the other way, the effect is much the same. Ferries aren't one way only. Hold up each one for a few minutes more and Kent still becomes a lorry park.
This is what happens when you try to screw over people you actually need.
Maybe we could rebrand Xmas 2020 as the retro-Victorian one. I reckon some spaghetti and a six pack of Andrex Arsewipe Deluxe might turn out to be the fashionable gift of choice this year. And it is all down to Johnson.
I thought Boris as PM was depressing till I saw how little even those who see his flaws expect from politicians.
Given the 80 seat majority, what more do we think he could do, other than call out the constant stream of bullshit and corruption?
Call me a hopeless idealist but he could give some idea of how he'd like to see things change.
I think we can all take it as read that There’s no way on earth Boris Johnson will be leading the Tories at the next election.
It looks like it’ll be Sunak. That’s fine for now when all he’s done is given everyone free pizzas and looked vaguely more competent than the imbeciles he’s surrounded with
But come Januaries shitshow he’s a fully paid up Brexiteer who now has to pay for all those pizzas. His glowing poll ratings won’t last long
Call me a hopeless idealist but he could give some idea of how he’d like to see things change.
Come January and a likely no deal, we’re into a whole world of Rumsfeld’s known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns.
You’d have to be a complete bloody idiot to nail your colours to the mast just before a shitshow of such epic proportions which Boris and chums will own 100%
Aa the time for that is in a couple of years
You’d have to be a complete bloody idiot to nail your colours to the mast just before a shitshow of such epic proportions which Boris and chums will own 100%
I expect a key message will be something along the lines of:
"Although the result of the referendum must be respected, there are a multitude of ways that can be done. And this damaging chaos is not one of them. You sir, is this the Brexit you voted for? How about you sir? Did you want this".
Leave it there until pressed. Don't commit. Let Johnson's rabble own it 100%. Covid-blaming will only work for so long.
Aa the time for that is in a couple of years
So meanwhile only the people on this thread and about 30 people 3 dogs and a cat in the rest of the country get to **** themselves into a fever about how clever he is at PMQ's and no one else gives a shit or even knows anything about him? Great!
Look at Sturgeon. She appears to be truthfull and competent and that’s the foundation for her and the SNPs popularity. It’s a slow burner but it has a huge effect. Even staunch unionists have respect for her.
Very good point, Sturgeon is hardly full of character or funny, or even particularly likeable but she has integrity and honesty and gives the professional appearance required.
Of course it helps that she is in Scotland where she has a population who don't have a history of voting tory without any care of who is their MP or the leader at the time.
Well judging by current polls ( for what there worth) a few more people than 30 recognise what Starmer is achieving.
Not sure what you want from an opposition leader with an 80 seat deficit and a previous opposition team that couldn't find their arse because they left it back in 1974?
Starmer understands what the press can do to an opposition party and he must avoid that negativity at all costs.
The UK working class/poor are not spurred on by the "greater good" they are selfish, greedy, xenophobic, small minded and sadly poorly educated. They voted for Boris (and Thatcher) on the promise that they would get something for nothing, the fear of losing what they have ( which is actually **** all) has been ingrained in multiple generations via the Vote leave, Dominic Cummins, ERG messaging, fear of foreigners Daily Mail bollocks
If Starmer lays out any form of political, economic, social plans in the next six months he would be a fool, just like Corbyn was a fool for allowing an early election based on the idea he had some good policy?
Its not rocket science to wait until the covid brexit misery manifests itself and as soon as thats in plain site then and only then offer a solution.
If you want a red flag waving left leaning younder version of Corbyn then Starmer is not that, if you want a Tony Blair (with a conscious) Starmer may be that. Sometimes we have to support the alternative for no better reason than its only marginally more palatable.
about how clever he is at PMQ’s and no one else gives a shit or even knows anything about him? Great!
Given that the Tory cabinet seem to be stuffed with woefully incompetent Brexiteer arseholes, who couldn't be trusted to run a bath. Now is not the time to give them, and their enablers something else to talk about. The only thing the R-W press have to talk about right now is how badly this govt are ****ing it up...Let them get on with it. What do you want? A headline with "Hancock's latest U turn" or "Cummings looks like a shabby day release patient" or..."We reveal how much Starmer's plans will cost you!"
Because as soon as he sets out some ideas, that's what's going to happen...
He has to walk a fine line - he needs to keep giving the government enough rope to hang themselves, because with an 80 seat majority there's nothing realistically he can do.
But he needs to be asking pointed questions to make it obvious to anyone with half an eye on the news whose fault this is. And I'd like to see some effort to start changing the narrative more towards "greater good" to try and get people to understand that that approach is the only way to build a society and country with a viable long term future.
Given the majority right wing press, not sure how you get out the message "you lot were conned into voting for this mess, and unless you start thinking about your kids and grandkids long term future, we are ****ed" as a catchy vote winning strapline.
Basically Labour, and the country, need the Tories to implode in the usual fashion with epic amounts of backstabbing and blame. If they provide them with something to unite against - some kind of tax or welfare or immigration policy - then the 'it would be worse under Corbyn Starmer' can be employed.
The Tories have to own this shitstorm 100% - unfortunately for the rest of us, those who gave them such a secure majority have to suffer to drive home this point.
Is there any episode in history of a politician who kept their policy cards close to their chest, got sponsored by big business, got elected and then turned out to have some socialist principles after all? I've heard this story countless times but there doesn't appear to be a single example of it.
Starmer absolutely has to connect with people on a personal level. Right now he isn't achieving that, other than with Lib Dem / Labour centre voters. That's not a disaster at the moment, the next election is a life time away in politics.
If Starmer lays out any form of political, economic, social plans in the next six months he would be a fool
Totally. Big committal now gives the Tories plenty of time to neutralise it by claiming to do similar, even if in reality they have no real intention of doing so.
He has the 'competence' voters already, now he needs to work on showing empathy and understanding for the voters that Labour have lost of the last 15 years. This doesn't need solid policy plans, he needs to show a vast chunk of the population that he 'gets' them. No easy task.
There's more than 4 years to the next election, unless the Gov implodes sufficiently spectacularly to call another one under the Act - and at this stage why would they, as I say it would have to be a spectacular collapse. Or lose a vote of no confidence - same again.
There's also a shed load to happen between now and then, no-one can predict the economic situation post Covid-Brexit.
There is no sense and no need for Starmer to lay out any policies right now, particularly as noted above if it risks diverting attention away from the general clown show.
'No Prime Minister - you won a majority in December 2019 on the promises you made to the electorate then, and further back in 2016. It's time for you as the Government to deliver on them, and me as opposition to hold you to account where you don't. My policies are not relevant for another 2 years at least; it's all about you right now.
I'd be tempted to come out and say it and stick to it, when the accusation of no policies is the response.
Call me a hopeless idealist but he could give some idea of how he’d like to see things change.
i think we did the "hopeless idealist" thing last time around and it didn't turn out well 🙁
Hiding in the shadows isn't a great look. Wakey,wakey people the shit has already hit the fan.
Starmer needs to suck up bad press and get his vision out there, this is not a time to be scared of the old media powers. Make some media waves and make some serious noise.
Sunak has become relevant off the back of a couple of TV statements, before you know it he will become the face of the new PM.
I think the only way Scottish Labour can become anything other than their current irrelevance is by coming out either as a pro-independence party or at the very least for some kind of half-way Federal house.
The Unionists currently vote Tory, definitely a feeling that it's their only option at the moment, whether Scottish Labour break away completely from UKL is another question, and that has to concern Starmer.
To what end - unenactable, but can be countered or stolen.
No, it's their shit sandwich, now make them eat it.
Great plan Jon, keep your vision a secret, hide in the shadows while the world needs leaders and pinch a win from under their noses👍
No-one said hide. Be in full view, statesmanlike, reliable, answer your interviews properly, and show Johnson up at every turn.
You don't need to go electioneering yet, you can make yourself electable still.
Scotland will not return to a Labour stronghold, there is not a sufficient ideological difference between them and the SNP to gain traction - the only difference is the Independence question.
Starmer has a difficult decision to make probably after the next election if its a hung parliament he may have to cut a deal with the SNP? After all if the SNP gain more seats/votes from a Democratic point of view its difficult to deny them a further Independence vote.
I think Scotland will leave the Union next time they can vote, i have friends over the border who voted no last time but now would vote yes. If Brexit is bad the SNP will win another vote.
Anecdotally talking to a Northern Irish friend who has always been pro union thinks NI will join Ireland within in 10 years - he has also had enough of Boris.
The problem with all the above and my previous post is that the removal of Scotland and NI would guarantee a permanent Tory gov with little opposition.
Do you think starmer is in full view and statesmanlike though?
If you take those off your list which I would then there isn't a lot left considering what's going on outside the window
i actually think Starmers problem is not Starmer, i currently worry that the team behind him is not strong enough and its that and the lack of visibility of that team thats my major concern.
He needs to find strong vocal, passionate people- he needs to remain the calm collected capable leader.
Do you think starmer is in full view and statesmanlike though?
I do, as much as a leader of the opposition ever is.
While I can see the attraction of leaving the UK to Scottish voters, it would not be a done deal that doing so would get them back in to Europe? May still be better than being attached to a Tory run England though.
But I agree, sadly. Ireland will be reunited in some way, and Scotland will vote to leave too. The Tories really have ****ed up big time
I have noticed that the BBC does not show the bits of PMQs in which Boris was shocking on the following regular news slots? They tend to show the bits when was average? So a lot of people are not seeing Starmers capabilities.
I think the BBC are tiptoeing around the Government at the moment for obvious reasons
the EU would give Scotland membership... just to get a foot hold on the UK mainland again.
To what end – unenactable, but can be countered or stolen.
No, it’s their shit sandwich, now make them eat it.
Yes. Offer up the obvious way out at each point.
You can see that Boris is flailing for attack lines on Starmer - because he's offered very little up to attack. He's basically resorted to calling him a remainer, and trying to recycle an old Corbyn attack line about supporting the IRA.
Starmer's approach is bob-on, IMO. Let the Tories circle the drain of their own making, without offering them a lifeline they can latch onto and crawl up.
There is no election in prospect. Brexit is not going to be stopped. The pandemic will rage through us all winter. Unfortunately, we have to hit bottom with this government as resoundingly as possible before some of the people who facilitated it realise where their best interests actually lie.
Scotland going, a matter of time before Wales and N.I follow. Starmer/Labour need to come up with a bold vision of a federal U.K if the U.K is to survive.
Including P.R and scrapping the Lords
You can see that Boris is flailing for attack lines on Starmer – because he’s offered very little up to attack. He’s basically resorted to calling him a remainer, and trying to recycle an old Corbyn attack line about supporting the IRA.
Starmer’s approach is bob-on, IMO. Let the Tories circle the drain of their own making, without offering them a lifeline they can latch onto and crawl up.
There is no election in prospect. Brexit is not going to be stopped. The pandemic will rage through us all winter. Unfortunately, we have to hit bottom with this government as resoundingly as possible before some of the people who facilitated it realise where their best interests actually lie.
This nails it. If the best thing Johnson can try to smear the former DPP with is "your old boss expressed some pro IRA sentiments" then he has nothing else to go on. Then Starmer just beats him away with his actual track record of prosecuting terrorists and mentions that at the same time Johnson was getting sacked for lying or doing guest appearances on HIGNFY.
Every time there is a mini disaster as part of this utter car crash he should just be very clearly pointing out that it is the result of a conscious choice by Johnson to be an arse, and that other ways were available if Johnson had chosen not to be an arse.
Brexit is such a dismal, doomed, failure that it will, hopefully, destroy this government of liars and incompetents.
What comes after could be worse, though, and that is my real worry. Beware the 'Strong Leader' temptation amongst the hard of thinking.
Starmer/Labour need to come up with a bold vision of a federal U.K if the U.K is to survive.
That might appeal to Wales but it's not going to work with Scotland and NI, I feel. They'll want back into the EU probably.
the EU would give Scotland membership… just to get a foot hold on the UK mainland again.
The EU don't want to face this issue as it causes a number of other difficulties. Spain is the big one with Catalan independence. There are numerous other historical fault lines that lie dormant but once you get momentum on these issues the political opportunists start and it can snowball out of hand.
Spain is an EU member.. the UK isn't... so not the same situation at all. People will catch up with understanding what Brexit means soon.. accession countries, and potential accession countries, are not ruled out by the EU because they used to be part of a bigger (non EU) country or federation of countries... not at all. The EU won't help NI or Scotland leave the UK, they won't even encourage it... but once it is done, there is no real reason for them to be refused membership. NI would be eased back in via a fast track not available to any other country. Scotland would probably go for something akin to the compromise the Scottish government proposed after the referendum to make things quicker... it would be messy enough to sort that, never mind full membership... which would take a decade... but the problems there are practical, rather the EU worrying that Scotland used to be part of the UK.
No idea what this has to do with Starmer but I wouldn't be so sure of Sturgeon rushing to join the EU as an independent nation. She'll be all powerful if Scotland leaves the UK, I doubt she'll want to immediately hand all that over to the EU bureaucrats.
I said that they would be likely to seek a compromise of the kind they outlined after the referendum, rather than full membership. But not for the backwards thinking nonsense you mention.
Unfortunately, we have to hit bottom with this government as resoundingly as possible before some of the people who facilitated it realise where their best interests actually lie.
In an ideal world people would recognise their mistakes and correct them, but never underestimate the power of denial with these people, all it may take is another three word catch phrase.
Its going to be a long four years and to defeat the tories with all their allies will take careful preparation.
She’ll be all powerful if Scotland leaves the UK, I doubt she’ll want to immediately hand all that over to the EU bureaucrats.
Sounds a bit brexity.
Sounds a bit brexity.
You deny there are bureaucrats in the EU? Technocrats might have been a better word. It's not brexity to point out that the EU is a technocratic organisation making decisions from a distance, it's just plain fact.
No idea what this has to do with Starmer but I wouldn’t be so sure of Sturgeon rushing to join the EU as an independent nation. She’ll be all powerful if Scotland leaves the UK, I doubt she’ll want to immediately hand all that over to the EU bureaucrats.
Because our home grown unelected bureaucrats are so much better! 🤦♂️
Because our home grown unelected bureaucrats are so much better!
No they're not. Whether we like it or not though, the vast majority in this country would rather be ruled by our 'own' bureaucrats than foreign ones. You know, people like Starmer, a competent, safe pair of hands from a leafy suburb in the south east.
As for Sturgeon, if you think she'll easily give up her power straight after getting it you're in denial of the primary motivation of almost every politician that has ever existed.
Labour & Starmer's biggest issues at the moment is infighting - they need to pull together, the tories sitting pretty with an 80 seat majority watching the weak opposition fighting among themselves must feel completely untouchable just now.
the vast majority in this country would rather be ruled by our ‘own’ bureaucrats than foreign ones. You know, people like Starmer,
I think we've established that some people don't understand what a bureaucrat is, or what they do.
None of which is actually relevant to a thread on Starmer.
None of which is actually relevant to a thread on Starmer.
Well I did say that earlier 🙂
Bringing it back to him though, I don't know if he's planning on saying much about Boris's latest ruse, but I hope he stays well away. Brexit is poison for labour, and they need to say as little about it as possible.
IScotland would be straight back in the EU and that will be the outcome
May next year they will have a thumping majority and independence will follow quickly
You deny there are bureaucrats in the EU? Technocrats might have been a better word. It’s not brexity to point out that the EU is a technocratic organisation making decisions from a distance, it’s just plain fact.
You made a lot out of one sentence. Is this flight of fancy similar to the one where you thought a backbench MP of 32 years would make a great leader of the opposition and possible PM?
possible PM
I would still maintain that Corbyn would have been a good PM. Imagine the possibilities of someone in the top job who posessed real compassion and didn't have a single narcissistic impulse? Evidently he wasn't a good oppostion leader though as he lost the election. Admittedly I have a different idea of what constitutes a good leader than most people, which is mostly someone who doesn't want to be one.
I would still maintain that Corbyn would have been a good PM. Imagine the possibilities of someone in the top job who posessed real compassion and didn’t have a single narcissistic impulse?
He would've made a terrible PM, he couldn't keep his chosen party together, the idea that he could lead a country is laughable, and as for the idea that he's not a narcissist, that's a joke surely? He's the worst sort of narcissist, he thinks he's right; about everything, so in his mind there's no need for compromise. He would be in the same position that Johnson is in now, surrounded by a smaller and smaller cabal of True Believers, put in position because of their support rather than their competence.
Evidently he wasn’t a good oppostion [sic] leader though as he lost the election.
Two...He lost two elections. Against two of the most useless governments this countries probably likely to see for some time
Admittedly I have a different idea of what constitutes a good leader than most people, which is mostly someone who doesn’t want to be one.
Benevolent dictatorship?
Two…He lost two elections.
He was slandered relentlessly for two elections - I still have people on social media call him traitor whilst beseeching Priti Patel (who was actually sacked for holding unsanctioned meetings with a foreign power) to break international and human rights law further by sinking refugee boats.
Imagine the possibilities of someone in the top job who posessed real compassion and didn’t have a single narcissistic impulse?
All the more reason why he wasn't any good. Much as I'd like a principled person(or persons) to be in Government, the current political climate dictates against this, and all the compassion and principle in the world isn't going to change it from the outside, particularly with 1: the tories, 2: FPTP, and 3: the media. The trick here is that you got to to get in through the door before you can effect change.
Those three things amongst others are powerful adversaries, and also its 'centrists'(for want of a better word') on this thread who I think are being complacent on believing that the tory party with Boris is going to destroy itself in the eyes of the electorate, when it comes to power, they have a habit of pulling themselves together just long enough to achieve it.
Expanding on Binners Napoleon quote, Napoleon knew when to put the boot in...does Starmer and Labour have that ability? Is he biding his time? Being factually correct is all fine and dandy, but he is going to have to inject a damn sight more passion about his vision for the country to win, I'm not sure he can do this...yet.
Much as I’d like a principled person(or persons) to be in Government, the current political climate dictates against this
Well I guess that's where I differ with most people. I don't want to accept that nothing can be done about our corrupt and venal political system. Instead of treating people with principles with suspicion and derision, you'd think we'd be electing them to power. Instead of accepting that there's nothing we can do to stop narcissists (and no I don't think Corbyn comes anywhere close to being a narcissist) and megalomaniacs gaining power, we should be voting and organising against them. It's a weird cognitive dissonance where we teach our kids to be honest, generous and compassionate, yet vote for potential leaders who display the very opposite qualities because 'that's the way it is'. I'll never understand it.
We have a principled person in power in Scotland. Very popular as well
We have a principled person in power in Scotland.
Well aside from my doubts about her motivations on brexit I'd be inclined to agree. She is something of an outlier in UK politics though. On the subject of Corbyn being a narcissist - which I think is pretty preposterous given he's spent his entire life campaigning for people at the sharp end of society's failings - I was thinking about which PMs in recent history were 'decent' people. John Major was the only one I could think of. Harold Wilson too probably from what I know.
I would still maintain that Corbyn would have been a good PM. Imagine the possibilities of someone in the top job who posessed real compassion and didn’t have a single narcissistic impulse?
Not a narcissist?
Are you serious?
The man who turned the Labour Party into a (non) personality cult where the faithful must constantly affirm their loyalty, and would pile in with threats and abuse to anyone who dare criticise the glorious leader, safely ensconced in his bunker, surrounded by his unquestioning nodding dogs.
We’ve recently found out that by the end, even John MacDonnel had been cast out of the inner circle, deemed insufficiently worshipful of the great man.
Him and Johnson are two cheeks of the same arse. Both were absolutely appalling candidates for PM, completely unfit for the role.
It’s a damning indictment of how totally broken our political system is that a choice between these two incompetent clowns was the best the two-party system could offer up
Literally, would you like your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?
At least we’ve at now got rid of one of them
Not a narcissist?
Are you serious?
Absolutely. As a sense check I asked Mrs Daz who is much cleverer than me (Grammar school education and all sorts) and not at all interested labour party politics and definitely not a massive fan of Corbyn. She pulled a funny face and said no, of course Jeremy Corbyn isn't a narcissist.
Him and Johnson are two cheeks of the same arse.
I then told her this and she laughed incredulously and said the very concept of comparing Corbyn to Trump was ridiculous. That's good enough for me. Honestly it really is very silly. By any definition you can find (and I've checked quite a few) Corbyn is not a narcissist. He may be imperfect, stubborn and annoyingly stoic in his views which he's not changed in 40 years, and probably a little paranoid in the face of non-stop abuse and smearing of his character, but he's definitely not a narcissist. Go look it up and stop reading the tabloid newspapers.
He may be imperfect, stubborn and annoyingly stoic in his views which he’s not changed in 40 years, and probably a little paranoid in the face of non-stop abuse and smearing of his character, but he’s definitely not a narcissist.
Maybe. But he couldn't win an election against a preposterous alcoholic who ran into a fridge to avoid questions. That was, um, sort of like.....his job.
He refused to address the single biggest purely political issue in the last forty years because he was at odds with his own party. As a result he was easy to caricature as a bit of a dildo.
Character assassinations of Corbyn are, frankly, irrelevant now.
His job was to be elected. He failed against a 'novelty' prime minister who would be more at home in panto. This is his political epitaph.
And here we have the paradox, reason. UK politicos fighting like drowning kittens in a sack, that's already been chucked into the river, apart from the nom-doms, who are in power, waiting for their January 1st, 2021 paycheck.
After that, they will be gone baby gone.
Maybe. But he couldn’t win an election against a preposterous alcoholic who ran into a fridge to avoid questions. That was, um, sort of like…..his job.
Oh, I agree that he was very far from an effective leader. But Binners' character assassination is as ever about a million miles from the mark. It's almost as though he says it for the purpose of eliciting a reaction.
Evening comrade.
This is a thread about Starmer. I know that there are still the hopelessly deluded out there who still need to romanticise Magic Grandad but at this point only 2 facts matter
1. Corbyn lost 2 elections. The second time he handed an absolutely massive majority to a hopeless, opportunist buffoon and delivered labours worse defeat since 1935, including seats lost to the Tory’s that have been labour since the dawn of time.
2. He bequeathed, on finally shuffling off to the allotment (3 years too late) a 26 point poll lead to said hopeless, opportunist buffoon. Keir Starmer has reduced that to zero in under 6 months.
So let’s just consign then beardy messiah to the dustbin of failure where he belongs, eh, and look towards the Labour Party being an actual political party again and not some completely unelectable 6th form protest group?
This is a thread about Starmer. I know that there are still the hopelessly deluded out there who still need to romanticise Magic Grandad but at this point only 2 facts matter
The problem with relying on your tedious cut and paste is that it bears no relation to the quote you're replying to. Now, probably best if you wind your neck in before you're given another week off.
Yawn sixth form yawn.
Any other MarkFrancois isms today binbins?
Comrade yep heard Francois use that
Bunker yep
Can you say Venezuela for us all?
On blimey! The committees arrived...
Corbyn is the past; there is no point re-visiting what he did or didn't do, what he could or should have said or done.
The next GE is more than 4 years away.
The gov are stuffing up everything they do and talk about; it is obvious and undeniable - even some of the most rabid pro-johnson media are publicly questioning him and his assembly of clowns.
The Napoleon example has been much referred to so I won't go there.
At present Starmer needs to do nothing more than maintain a sharp focus on the most recent and glaring examples of incompetence and inconsistency; highlight johnson's clear inability to lead, to govern, to answer direct questions, to demonstrate he has any understanding or mastery of facts, to prove he is not a congenital liar, to prove that his word is emphatically not his bond.
CV19 and Brexit are the subjects concerning most of the population; both are providing multiple examples of johnson's incompetence and inadequacy.
To quote Bill Clinton 'It's the economy, stupid'.
Keep a narrow focus on that and avoidable CV19 related deaths until it becomes clear the public interest has shifted; then, move with it.
A light seasoning of broken promises and untrustworthy commitments will add a little flavour.
It's nothing to do with what labour would do; it's all about showing that johnson and his acolytes are not fit to govern - by association, that encompasses the tory party.
Starmer is clearly highly competent; I have no doubt that much work is being done behind the scenes to develop and test policies which don't need to be made public yet.
More PMQs on Wednesday; another chance for johnson to convince that he has just a grain of competence hidden away somewhere in his lumpen persona - another chance for him to fail to convince.