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Useless. Hopeless. Clueless.
Maybe. Or just a big slow ship to turn around. I don't know which yet, personally.
The YouGov tracker on trustworthiness is interesting...
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-the-labour-party-trustworthy-or-untrustworthy
Maybe. Or just a big slow ship to turn around. I don’t know which yet, personally.
With my tongue out of my cheek it's a reasonable point.
Don't get me wrong, I think the current front bench team are not cutting through the news to engage with voters at the moment, and that goes right to the top, but I'm not sure a big switch in voting intention is realistic right now. Getting people to trust the party, and imagine it in government and acting for them, is a big and perhaps frustratingly slow task. I still think it won't be complete by the next election, and that the Conservatives will win again, sadly. Would love to be wrong.
The reality is massive spend is going to be the only way actually out of this economic hole.
Too many people are scared of what that means and they don't need to be. It's not a question of affordability. We can afford it. Real resources and employment is the only limiting factor. Inflation (currently 0.7%) is the measurement for this.
We have seen the Tories tinker with spend but quickly reign it in due to market ideology.
There was no growth in the economy before Covid-19. There is massive room for direct government spending.
The £300 Billion already on the way is completely funded. No extra tax. The BoE directly funded. Learn about what the debt actually is. And then you see it's not really a debt in the sense of a household. Our Governerment is a currency issuer and we and everyone else currency users.
The sooner a political party accepts this the better. Neither Labour nor the Tories accept spend before tax and that is exactly what happens and needs to happen with force.
The most important economic book this year "The Deficit Myth" by Stephanie Kelton should be read by anyone who wants to understand how government spending works - with central banks in particular.
Read it now. It will change your understanding of tax before spend. And is more relevant than ever.
And to be fair even McDonald wanted to balance the books and it's completely economically illiterate.
reasonable explanation here
The voters in Red wall seats that went to con are switching back to lab but not in enough numbers
and starmers approval rating is obviously way above johnsons
but with recession coming tories favoured on economy
sunak most popular MP right now!
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1281628266957344768
Well said Rone. We could also get smart about taxation to make it more efficient and invest in emerging technologies as well as set up UBI but no one has the balls to.
TBF Cummings is trying to push emerging tech
The problem is he thinks he's smart enough to decide which tech to invest in rather than smart enough to let the actual smart people do it, he actually believes he is a genius
We're stuffed
What’s this about? Not the JK Rowling stuff?
Unfortunately spending won't sort this out. It's a problem of supply not lack of demand, caused by the destruction of firms and low rates of profit (ie throw money at firms who are not confident/prepared to invest and the multiplier and accelerator effect stops there, they pocket it). Massive investment in capital is required on the scale of the New Deal, but it ain't gong to happen.
Get the popcorn out
https://twitter.com/acailler/status/1285840008885215233?s=19
https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1285863220683694081?s=19
The dumping of the failed Corbynite experiment into the dustbin of history, where it belongs, and the Party's reconnection with actual reality, continues apace. Jolly good.
I don't even need to look on Twitter to know that it'll have gone into meltdown as the tinfoil helmet revolutionaries get their knickers unfeasibly twisted, as everyone else gives a collective shrug.
Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. The Tory party will be the only ones sorry to see you go
Not a single question from Sir at PMQs on protecting the NHS from a trade deal.
Not a single question from Sir at PMQs on protecting the NHS from a trade deal.
But I noticed Johnson’s preferred line of attack now it to try and tie Kier Starmer to Jeremy Corbyn, which indicates the PM is struggling to get things to stick to the current leader of the opposition.
BillMC
Subscriber
Not a single question from Sir at PMQs on protecting the NHS from a trade deal.Posted 4 hours ago
I was disappointed about this as well
The dumping of the failed Corbynite experiment into the dustbin of history, where it belongs, and the Party’s reconnection with actual reality, continues apace. Jolly good.
Then in that case what are you expecting to replace it? More neoliberalalism sir? Ah. Dying on its arse; in fact propped up by a large dose of Socialism - during the pandemic. So not really confined to a bin, very much keeping the economy propped up as we speak.
The Labour party currently however is not connecting to anything. There is no vision, no opposition to anything significant that will benefit the electorate - especially in the current circumstances. Can't quite work out what is jolly good about this.
The polls are starting to reflect this.
As you've been told several times centrism is going nowhere. It isn't substantially different from current the administration - without the electoral benefit of drawing in the Brexiteer.
Basically success for you appears to be Starmer having a good sesh in PMQs - which doesn't really amount to much.
As you’ve been told several times centrism is going nowhere.
Agreed. The UK is moving further right at an increasing pace. The question is how to arrest that, and get Labour into government.
The Labour party currently however is not connecting to anything. There is no vision, no opposition to anything significant that will benefit the electorate – especially in the current circumstances. Can’t quite work out what is jolly good about this.
The polls are starting to reflect this.
Eh? What, now? The Labour Party is presently polling 20 points higher than when grandad finally (3yesrs too late) shuffled off to the allotment. I’d be more than happy for Starmer To carry on with that lack of connection and direction. That would be terrible, wouldn’t it? That betrayal of all that idealogical purity that was such a winner with the electorate?
You never know... If he carries on like this it might even deliver a *whisper it* Labour government
And who would want that? WHO?!
That would really restrict the opportunities to endlessly Tweet ‘JEREMY WAS RIGHT!!’ Which is pretty much all that those on the left seem to do nowadays, so I understand your lack of enthusiasm. You ‘won the argument’ after all. 😂
If Keir was a Tory candidate, Labour wouldn’t stand a chance for a good decade. Yet you still find complaining points for what is esentially a dream candidate.
Looks like another good day for Starmer and the potential electability of the Labour Party as the successor as head of Unite favoured by Corbynite gobshite ‘Ref Len’ McClusky has been scuppered
Starmer Critic Loses Bid To Become Left’s Candidate To Succeed Unite’s Len McCluskey
It seems there really does appear to be an appetite within the whole Labour movement to get rid of all of these clowns and get back to being a serious, credible political party again. Just a pity about it took five years of Brexit-enabling, Tory government delivering buffoonery to get here
Agreed. The UK is moving further right at an increasing pace. The question is how to arrest that, and get Labour into government.
/tin foil on
Isn’t the, for want of a better description, hard left still banking on disaster socialism? Let those they can paint as right wing screw everyone over trashing millions of lives and then waltz in to save the day after it’s been lost.
\tin foil off
Just a pity about it took five years of Brexit-enabling,
All part of Corbyn's ingenious plan. Let Tories get the Brexit that he wanted but couldn't say it, get replaced by someone who has a clue what they are doing and getting Brexit and a Labour party back in power. And you wrote him off as clueless.
Then in that case what are you expecting to replace it?
Anyone (literally anyone) who isn't Corbyn. I hesitate to don the "cloak of Binners" but when on the doorsteps of Durham they tell you that they won't vote for Corbyn because they don't trust him with the keys to No10., it doesn't take a genius to see where the problem lay.
There's nothing wrong with the policies (just need presenting in a coherent way) but Corbyn's leadership was shockingly bad.
All part of Corbyn’s ingenious plan. Let Tories get the Brexit that he wanted but couldn’t say it, get replaced by someone who has a clue what they are doing and getting Brexit and a Labour party back in power. And you wrote him off as clueless.
tEh Long GAmE, cOMrADEs!
Funny how the impotent rage of the rightwingers on here always seems to lack content or statistical context but they are effusive with their insults, name-calling and KS3 English (plus bum-jokes and bum jokes).
Yep, and knock someone with an allotment and then proudly queue outside Greggs.
Morning comrades.
Funny how the impotent rage of the rightwingers on here always seems to lack content or statistical context
By 'rightwingers' I presume you're referring to everyone who always knew Corbyn was hopeless? And by 'impotent rage', you mean the expression of relief that him and his useless, unelectable coterie are finally gone?
Good to see Jezza's further demonstration of his fantastic judgment as he spends the next few years fighting a legal battle he can't possibly win and probably bankrupt himself into the bargain?
Anyway.... This 'statistical context' of which you speak? You mean stuff like this?
Competent, likeable, decisive: Keir Starmer beating Boris Johnson on all counts
Where Starmer is polling higher than Boris in every single area? Or the one that really matters... That he's closed the 20+ point poll lead that Grandad gifted him down to nothing?
They're the only ones that matter really, aren't they?
Steak bake, comrade? I'm popping in at lunchtime
There’s nothing wrong with the policies (just need presenting in a coherent way)
And how much would you bet that they will remain? I desperately want Starmer to keep the policies but I have very little faith that he will. All the signs and signals suggest they're going to be binned in favour of more new labour inspired fiscal conservatism and pro-corporate cowardice. I really hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't put any money on it.
What are you basing that on Daz? What signs and signals? I haven't seen any signs of a change of policy on anything.
He seems to have spent all his time restoring an air of competence to the party that was sadly lacking before. As far as policy is concerned I've seen absolutely no signs at all that he plans a change of direction
My hunch is that he has enough pragmatism that some policies will be dropped to suit the reality of the electorates voting behaviour.
What signs and signals?
Not much by Starmer admittedly, but everything else is heading that way, from the things his MPs say, to the commentary and narrative which is ratcheting up in the media etc. Today it's about detoxifying the labour brand, tomorrow it'll be the policies. It's as inevitable as night following day, because the people who are currently steering labour away from the Corbyn era, are the same people who steered them away from socialism back in the 90s.
The jury is out still, and like I said I'll be very happy to be wrong, but I don't think I will be.
I don't think the issue was with owning an allotment, just more the fact Jezzer appeared to spend time here when needed elsewhere, similar to Boris and walk in freezers...
Good job Boris didn't wander into a Greggs freezer otherwise there would have been a lot of spitting out of vegetarian sausage rolls 🙂
Anyway... I won't be going to Greggs today. I've just had a refrigerated delivery of pies turn up, courtesy of TJ.
I can't even remember what our last pastry-based bet was that I won? I know it was during lockdown and pie deliveries weren't on the agenda
Thanks very much TJ!! 😀
I’ll give you a clue binners, he’s still in the job.
Ah yes... I bet on the hard-faced shamelessness of Mr Cummins and the fact that he'd be going nowhere.
My political predictions are usually a bit more accurate than my footballing ones 😀
They could be shit and still be better than your footballing ones. 😛
A fair point 😃
Getting away from Binners' pies and back to the subject at hand. I took up Rone's earlier recommendation to read The Deficit Myth by Stephanie Kelton whilst on holiday (I always read economics books on holiday for some bizarre reason), and I would urge everyone to do the same. I already knew a lot about MMT but even so it's pretty mind blowing.
So my main question regarding Starmer's policies is whether he'll take the obvious opportunity covid (and brexit) has provided and adopt MMT inspired economic policies, or continue with the fraud that we can't afford to pay for decent public services, infrastructure and properly confront climate change? I suspect we all know the answer, but lets wait and see.
Good call Dazh. Glad you read it.
Think most folk think it's some sort of left wing policy when it's just how the system actually works - with currency issuing governments - irrespective of ideology. Look at Trump and co they are always spending on the military - without restriction. That money could just as easily be spent on things that improve lives.
On the UK side the BoE governor (Andrew Bailey) has a lot to answer for recently talking up the country nearly bring broke. This establishment rubbish has to stop and is demonstrable nonsense.
And don't let anyone lecture you on inflation - particularly hyperinflation (Zimbabwe - yawn) which was about the supply side and Labour market not being able to deliver productivity.
The UK Government doesn't even have to go to the bond market which creates the bogus debt we all talk about - this is mechanism for controlling interest rates rather than actually borrowing money (which has already been issued and spent at this point.)
Either way Q/E has taken care of this 'debt' - this year
Lots of Kelton stuff out there. She puts lots of time in. Richard Murphy runs a good blog too - he's UK based.
Mark Blyth, L. Randall Wray and Bill Mitchell - all worth following too.
I’ll have a read of that when I’ve finished Mein Kampf.
I don’t share your pessimism Daz. I think Starmer isn’t making policy commitments at the moment because he knows what’s coming. This next 12 months could quite potentially be this countries most transformative year in peacetime.
When the furlough ends in October there is going to be an avalanche of bankruptcies and unemployment is going to rise to levels this country has never seen. Chuck a No Deal Brexit in on top of that and you’re looking at an economic tsunami. The Tory’s, especially Boris, will own that mess 100%. But we all know what their only solution is... more austerity.
Next year, as this threadbare Americanised idea of Capitalism has delivered yet another economic implosion, even more severe than the last, then it might well be very fertile ground for a credible opposition to be offering radical alternatives.
I live in hope, anyway, you miserable sod! 😃
In other news...
I love polls. This one basically says the Tories could just literally shit on your dinner table and you'd still vote for it.
(Sorry there's some duplication here I couldn't pull out individual polls)
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1286678743289929734?s=19
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1286678746062364672?s=19
And my favourite - support for the four day week!
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1286678748847386629?s=19
I don’t share your pessimism Daz. I think Starmer isn’t making policy commitments at the moment because he knows what’s coming. This next 12 months could quite potentially be this countries most transformative year in peacetime.
Binners - Keith Starmer is just going to offer you polite Capitalism. Not much different from what you've already got - but without the "Sex Yeti" (Frankie Boyle) at the wheel.
dazh
SubscriberSo my main question regarding Starmer’s policies is whether he’ll take the obvious opportunity covid (and brexit) has provided and adopt MMT inspired economic policies, or continue with the fraud that we can’t afford to pay for decent public services, infrastructure and properly confront climate change?
TBH the lie has been so well and so continually sold that it'll now be very hard to convince anyone that the truth isn't Left Wing Utopia And Financial Irresponsibility. Especially since Miliband's Labour decided that the best way to deal with it was to say "Yes, absolutely, you have to balance the books" and Brown's labour left with "There isn't any money". And even when people actually do it, they tend to do all they can to hide what they're actually doing so that it still fits into the lie (on the left, to avoid accusations of spending what we don't have; on the right, to avoid weakening the lie)
People understand "balancing the books" and "living within your means", they're easy relatable concepts. Of course, world and national economies aren't easy and relatable, they're complex and unrelated to our own daily finances, so almost by definition easy and relatable concepts will be false or misleading. But that doesn't stop them from being an easy sell.
I've exchanged a few tweets with James Meadway (former advisor to John McDonnell) and he doesn't really have time for MMT either (though he admits the debt is largely irrelevant.)
That tells you a lot.
Richard Murphy (a prominent MMTer) got close to Labour but they didn't employ his services as I understand. (He co-authored The Green New Deal.)
Stephanie Kelton went into her research 20 years ago looking for answers to economic problems and was very much led by the evidence to where she is today.
And she is not shy at taking anyone on.
The mainstream media need knocking into shape too as they're always pushing the 'how are you going to pay for it?'
Binners – Keith Starmer is just going to offer you polite Capitalism
There seems to an awful lot of assumptions going on here, with little or nothing to substantiate them.
As far as I’m aware, the Labour manifesto hasn’t changed at all.
It seems like the priority here, rather understandably, is establishing the party as a credible political force again. This he seems to be doing rather well.
Why is it that credibility and radical policies are considered mutually exclusive? They shouldn’t be. Like I said... I don’t share your pessimism. I think you may be surprised. I certainly hope so, because the mess this country is going to be in by this time next year is going to require radical action.
I honestly think Starmer gets that, which is why he’s sitting back and letting them get on with this car crash, as with an 80 seat majority, there’s not much else he can do anyway, but present a credible alternative for the upcoming shit/fan interface.
Most of us know that there are no sunny uplands and Brexit is going to be an absolute disaster, but when the full horror of it becomes reality, a lot of people who voted for their bullshit promises are going to be hearing the old Johnny Rotten refrain “ever had the feeling you’ve been cheated?”
This is the calm before the storm. We’re in for a seismic year in this country, and this prevents a huge opportunity for a Labour Party that looks a lot cannier than it has been for the last 5 years. Not least as we now have a leader who isn’t a lifelong Brexiteer
MMT still ignores that the rest of the world exists... it makes perfect sense in a closed economy... we shouldn't become a closed economy. I doubt very much that any Labour leader will be quoting it, ever. But the argument as regards "we can't afford it" has been changed this year, and will be even more next year... and the next election is likely to more about spending priorities rather than any talk about further austerity or "balancing the books" nonsense of past election battles.
kelvin
Subscriberand the next election is likely to more about spending priorities rather than any talk about further austerity or “balancing the books” nonsense of past election battles.
We'll see. I think it'll go the opposite way and it'll all be "we spent all that money to Get Coronavirus Done and now we need to make cuts to pay for it". Also "There is no alternative" and "Labour will throw away all the hard work of the last few years"
Not unlikely. But I still think Johnson will want to (look to) be mister generous at the next election... he won't fight like Cameron and May did.
I know people that voted Tory instead of lib just to keep Corbyn out.
With that fear gone they will probably go back to voting lib. A few less votes for the scumbags when the time comes.
Next year, as this threadbare Americanised idea of Capitalism has delivered yet another economic implosion, even more severe than the last, then it might well be very fertile ground for a credible opposition to be offering radical alternatives.
FFS man you spent most of last year having a go at 'disaster socialists' who were supposedly enabling brexit and now you're positively salivating at the prospect of an economic implosion helping labour's chances and suggesting it as labour's primary strategy.
MMT still ignores that the rest of the world exists…
Not read the bit on trade yet but please elaborate so I can responsd when I get to it. I see no reason why MMT should result in a closed or economically isolated society.
MMT still ignores that the rest of the world exists… it makes perfect sense in a closed economy… we shouldn’t become a closed economy.
It's government spending. Not sure what you're driving at?
I don't want to be rude but what you say doesn't actually make sense. It's a description of the way the government finance and spending works - in a sovereign nation like ours.
We already do it. The USA already does it, as does Japan and Australia.
The only difference is that we don't harness it to benefit the vast majority of our population.
FFS man you spent most of last year having a go at ‘disaster socialists’ who were supposedly enabling brexit and now you’re positively salivating at the prospect of an economic implosion helping labour’s chances and suggesting it as labour’s primary strategy.
I don’t think Starmer is a disaster socialist. Jeremy Corbyn is. He was also a committed lifelong Brexiteer.
To compare the motives of the two of them is ludicrous. Corbyn wanted this and actively enabled it. Starmer is the grown up who’s been left to deal with Corbyns stupidity and the mess it’s left.
Still... we are where we are. Which grandad has to shoulder a lot of the responsibility for. Not that he will. Or the antisemitism, or two Tory election victories, Boris’s massive majority or any of the numerous other terrible things that are all his fault
If we’d have had anyone else other than that Brexiteer clown as (AWOL) Labour ‘leader’ during the referendum, we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place
Not unlikely. But I still think Johnson will want to (look to) be mister generous at the next election… he won’t fight like Cameron and May did.
It’s funny that Johnson may end up being a bigger neocon than Cameron was.
Zionism and socialism are mutually exclusive. You can only be one or the other.
Zionism and socialism are mutually exclusive. You can only be one or the other.
[Bolshevism] among the Jews is nothing new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxemburg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. Winston Churchill.
The kibbutz (Hebrew word for “communal settlement”) is a unique rural community; a society dedicated to mutual aid and social justice; a socioeconomic system based on the principle of joint ownership of property, equality and cooperation of production, consumption and education; the fulfillment of the idea “from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”; a home for those who have chosen it.
[Bolshevism] among the Jews is nothing new.
Great examples but he said zionism was incompatible with socialism, not being Jewish.
Modern zionism maybe - but zionism originally had a strong socialist leaning
Just for future reference here are the pledges he made to the membership before being selected.
https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
My promise to you is that I will maintain our radical values and work tirelessly to get Labour in to power – so that we can advance the interests of the people our party was created to serve.
Based on the moral case for socialism, here is where I stand.
1. Economic justice
Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.
2. Social justice
Abolish Universal Credit and end the Tories’ cruel sanctions regime. Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS. Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning.
3. Climate justice
Put the Green New Deal at the heart of everything we do. There is no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. A Clean Air Act to tackle pollution locally. Demand international action on climate rights.
4. Promote peace and human rights
No more illegal wars. Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy. Review all UK arms sales and make us a force for international peace and justice.
5. Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.
6. Defend migrants’ rights
Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.
7. Strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions
Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.
8. Radical devolution of power, wealth and opportunity
Push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.
9. Equality
Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent. We are the party of the Equal Pay Act, Sure Start, BAME representation and the abolition of Section 28 – we must build on that for a new decade.
10. Effective opposition to the Tories
Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.
Herzl died in 1904. Trotsky, Luxemburg et al were socialists and anti-racists, they opposed zionism. To link those people with the kibbutz system is ludicrous, they would have defended the Palestinian refugees driven out by it (but, just to clarify, they were murdered before 1948, so they didn't).
Starmer seems to be doing a pretty good job of shrinking and bankrupting the LP. I imagine when people campaign against the government, it will be like when RAR and the ANL were big in the 1970s, you never saw the LP. It would be difficult for the LP to lead a campaign when people don't know what it stands for. If Starmer is actually against privatising the NHS, might he not have mentioned that in PMQs when it was potentially being included in a trade deal?
NB. Being forensic, the desire for 'electability' and looking like the establishment is not enhanced by the sartorial splash of a Peter Christian advert. a combover and a squeaky voice.
Reading this thread really is a fascinating window into the strange reality some people live in. Starmer just seems a complete non entity. If Corbyn is criticised for being a bit quiet during the Brexit disaster the current leadership need lining up against a wall and shooting for desertion given what's gone on since March or whenever they got in. I mean I get Binners acts like a prepubescent kid with politics book and didn't like Corbyn but his blind faith support for the empty suit that Starmer is mystifies me.
I have never voted labour in my life but the Zip household will now. That’s all The Starmtrooper needs to do . Become someone you can vote for.
I know voters who would have voted Lib Dem In the last election but voted Tory just to keep Corbyn out.
Votes are all that matters.
I have never voted labour in my life but the Zip household will now. That’s all The Starmtrooper needs to do . Become someone you can vote for.
I know voters who would have voted Lib Dem In the last election but voted Tory just to keep Corbyn out.
Votes are all that matters.
End of thread, basically.
Ideological purity vs electability.
I also know many people who said they would have voted differently if it wasn't for (and I quote one) "that IRA-sympathising, ridiculous beardy old dinosaur who couldn't run a bath".
I don't agree with most of that, but Corbyn made it so easy for the right wing press to drip-drip stuff into the consciousness of people who can then be sold the line that Labour want to take away everything you've earned and give it to 'shirkers' - or whatever. Not my views, but the right wing press are extremely good at creating 'accepted wisdom' by drip-dripping half truths and lies expressed as opinion (but with the acknowledgment that it is an opinion in very small print).
I have never voted labour in my life but the Zip household will now.
End of thread, basically.
Anecdote is not evidence and one poster on this chat bored proves nothing.
Its a sad state of affairs that doing nothing is the best way to get elected, having said that despite Starmer being so passive and Boris being completely useless voting intention is still quite markedly in favour of Boris.
Anecdote is not evidence and one poster on this chat bored proves nothing.
I’m center/right, and whilst I probably disagree with Starmer on many things, if I could vote I’d vote him over Boris or any of the usual conservative suspects. Same as my partner, same as some of her family and I imagine same as a lot of middle-class and young professionals that were left with the utter depressing reality of choosing between Corbyn and Boris.
So is your anecdote better evidence?
Latest Opiniom polling:
https://twitter.com/opiniumresearch/status/1287100555693666306?s=21
And from one I missed:
https://twitter.com/zoeparamour/status/1287287481742897152?s=21
He’s not convinced me yet… but then with the current political landscape, he doesn’t need to… he has my vote. He seems to be making progress.
As far as Labour voter opinions go, how does that compare with Corbyns best polling?
I do think you're better looking at the party's polling.
Which is good-ish currently.
https://twitter.com/UK_Polling/status/1289589593793167360?s=19
The ratings for Anneliese Dodds as a who would make the most competent CoE were terrible (something like 6% approval). People assuming Sunak was great was based on the fact he chucked something in at the time of need.
Worth remembering Sunak is a Brexiteer and has plenty of investment bank experience. He's not really on your side.
The real test is what happens next and it's not looking good. Tories reverting back to the market ... Insane.
We need a massive overhaul of the country's finances now. The private sector is contracting. The Tories just aren't imaginative enough to rebound this one.
We need Labour now to offer something up - the time for just nodding with the Government is over.
This is Labour's opportunity ...
Holy crap, the number of people on Twitter that can’t read is amazing.
We need a massive overhaul of the country’s finances now. The private sector is contracting. The Tories just aren’t imaginative enough to rebound this one.
I think this could be a first. Me and you agreeing on something. 😉
It’s obvious that the Tory’s priorities are to just get everything back to exactly how it was before, as quickly as possible. OI! Office drone! Get back on that train for your daily commute into your city centre offices and get buying lattes from Costa and sandwiches from Pret. Maybe a post-work pint in Spoons too.
That really is the sum total of their solutions, after everything that’s happened. The dearth of imagination is thoroughly depressing. They just want a quick return to the status quo that benefitted their mates so enormously
Then impose hyper-austerity on the rest of us to pay for it all
You’re right that there has never been a better time for the Labour Party to offer fairer, more imaginative (whisper it.... “radical’) solutions, and take a real look at how we order our society for the benefit of everyone and not just a select few
For me keeping relatively quiet and letting this car crash of coronavirus take it’s toll on the current administration isn’t enough, I want to know what he is planning to do and how he is going to organise it and fund it, not just keep highlighting how badly BoJo’s decision making is. Let’s face it any one of us could do that. He needs to stand up and be counted before I’ll see him as anything other than an opportunist politician.
Sweeping statemnets are easy, detail requires research thought and planning. Housing didn't make his 10 points above and yet it is crucial to a few of them. Taking people out of over-priced accomodation in thermal sieves and providing affordable energy efficient homes that are a pleasure to live in and near to people's places of work should be in the top three and doesn't feature at all.
We need a massive overhaul of the country’s finances now. The private sector is contracting. The Tories just aren’t imaginative enough to rebound this one.
We need Labour now to offer something up – the time for just nodding with the Government is over.
Agreed Rone. This is what I want. Starmer currently looks too worried about appearing to offer alternatives that can be derided as “not getting behind this country”… but offering up that alternative plan for the country might be step two (step one being just to look competent and looking to lead a nation, not a faction), hopefully we’ll see it later. Hopefully.
For sure Kelvin.
I know the dangers of looking at polls every few days...
But this is not so good.
Irrespective of my thoughts on Starmer - I really don't see where this sort of support for the Tories is coming from.
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1290658524662554633?s=19
Polls are pointless, the Tories are in for 3-4 years regardless.
I think they'll screw this country into the ground, make themselves and their donors richer and them sit back and laugh at Labour as they try and fix/rebuilt the steaming pile if shite they inherit.
Remember when everyone said Corbyn was the problem and as soon as Labour had a credible centrist leader everything would be hunky dory?
If the Tories are still ahead in the polls now how can they ever lose? What would they have to do?
Remember when everyone said Corbyn was the problem and as soon as Labour had a credible centrist leader everything would be hunky dory?
The polling for the party is currently well behind the polling for the leader. It was the other way around. Starmer needs to convince enough of the country that the party is now for them... he hasn't yet... he might never succeed (I personally don't think he has the appeal needed to get Labour into power)... but even his (in my opinion) lack lustre performance so far is a stark contrast to the "I'll never vote for that man" response heard across the North of England last year...
Also... no one claimed anything would be "hunky dory", and Starmer isn't a "centrist", and there isn't an election for a long time, sadly.
all the vote the tories gained will be lost fairly quickly when brexit realities start to bite. they win, they get to own this shitshow.
Remember when everyone said Corbyn was the problem and as soon as Labour had a credible centrist leader everything would be hunky dory?
I remember saying the former, not the latter.
Magic Grandad was the most unpopular leader in UK political history, by a country mile. Looking at the laughable ramblings of Iain Duncan Smith today, it's amazing to think that even he didn't get anywhere near Jezzas negative poll ratings. He was uniquely voter-repelling
But after nearly 5 years of Corbynism (whatever that is?) its not a case of giving it a lick of paint. Its a rebuilding job from the foundations up. That's going to take time. He's got 4 years as it stands. Thats how long we're saddled with this lot for
I personally think the labour party should be being considerably more vocal in it criticism of the governments shambolic performance and offering much bolder alternatives than 'lets just go back to how things were before, but a bit shitter, post-Brexit' which seems to be the sum total of what this government has to say