Forum menu
That article… No mention that the original comment was about trying to link the central complaint of the BLM movement to Israel. Leavimg out that “small detail” when discussing this means you should not be trusted.
Repeat after me “I don’t blame Israel for racist police killings in the USA, and I expect my politicians not to spread such conspiracy theories”… go on, give it a go. RLB needs to do more, fast, the people rallying to her support need to hear from her clearly and directly that this nonsense needs to stop.
So you're saying its not anti-semitic then Kelvin? More an anti Israel conspiracy theory?
I think it is antisemitic, I have been clear. Blaming violent crimes and subjugation of non whites on Jews is as old as you like. If you think you can update that by replacing “Jews” with “Israel” to keep the lies and hate flowing, then you are part of the problem… repeat after me “the racist killings by police forces in the USA are not down to Israel, and our politicians have a responsibility to try and snuff out such conspiracy theories”. RLB needs to speak clearly on this, or it looks like she wants her “she did nothing wrong” supporters to carry on spreading this nonsense, and laying the blame at Israel’s door for the killings at the centre of the BLM campaigners’ concerns.
A trope is all about 'you said this, but you really meant that, you're an ad hominem (fill in accordingly)' and 'you're guilty of what I've just invented, repeat this apology after me'.
You really do need a bit of an eye for detail in all of this.
I still don’t think that Peake or BLM are antisemitic, and don’t think either meant any malice towards Jews. We all have a responsibility to stop these conspiracy theories though, and the responses by many of those who support RLB shows exactly why she has a greater responsibility to do so than others, and should have acted quicker to do so… and STILL hasn’t done nearly enough to do so.
Repeat after me Bill… “the racist killings by police forces in the USA are not linked to Israel”… stop defending the spreading of this lie.
That article...
Middle East Eye are an, erm, interesting source...
I love how Kelvin and DannyH are trying to get people to say stuff on this thread :-0
Repeat after me...
SAY HIS NAME!
If Israel are training US police forces in physical confrontation is it still a conspiracy theory?
I would have sacked her for stupidity - leave it alone FFS! & more broadly it does NOTHING for Palestine nor BLM.
Twitter for me is unfollow, unfollow, unfollow...
is it still a conspiracy theory?
“the racist killings by police forces in the USA are not linked to Israel”
Try it. Anything else is propogating the lie, whether you see it as antisemitic or not. And why would you want to do that? Why is RLB not clearly telling her supporters not to propagate the lie? That's what concerns me most right now, because social media is currently a wash with antisemitic bile from people claiming to be standing up for her.
A reminder of the comment...
“Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”
By refusing to act quickly to counter this (unlike Peake herself) RLB gave time for supporters to latch onto it and defend it. When firing her, Starmer could not just say she acted "stupidly", he had to say exactly why the refusal for her to act quickly and clearly to stop her actions looking like support for the conspiracy meant she couldn't keep a front bench role. What choice did he have?
and her followers are flooding the comments with
FFS. You're beginning to sound like binners. Please give up on your obsession with trying to paint anyone who mentions the word israel in a negative light as anti-semitic. Someone said something horrible on twitter, and they appear to be a labour supporter, that must mean all labour supporters are racists! It's quite pathetic.
If you want to engage seriously with this, then maybe consider my point up the thread, that all this overly pious and forensic witch-hunting is politically motivated and will result in the very thing you claim to be against. How strange that people you falsely accuse of being racists might be a little pissed off and will come back at you in a less than polite manner. Especially if those people have spent a lifetime fighting the very thing you accuse them of.
Please give up on your obsession with trying to paint anyone who mentions the word israel in a negative light as anti-semitic.
I...
Never said that.
Never did that.
Do not think that.
Do not support that.
Do not condone that.
Take that comment back.
RLB wasn't really sacked for being antisemitic, she was sacked for being politically clueless. In that respect, she really was the 'continuity Corbyn' candidate.
Anyway, she seems happy enough with her new martyr role, and everyone in the lefty bunker has had it fuel their particular paranoid, persecution complex, which they get to vocalise on Twitter in their little echo chamber, so that's them sorted.
In the meantime, getting back on topic to the stuff that actually matters (ie: NOT Rebecca Long Bailey)...
It looks like Joris is about to do something very un-Tory and announce what amounts to a very labor-esque programme of Keynesian economic stimulus. Its going to be interesting to see how far he actually goes. Yes, he's been forced into it but it's going to be crucial how Labour reacts to him stealing their clothes.
Obviously, under the old regime, they would have just shouted that they'd spend 5 times more, but Starmer needs to be shrewder than that.
Joris is already calling this the 'New Deal'. I wonder who came up with that slogan?
Someone said something horrible on twitter, and they appear to be a labour supporter, that must mean all labour supporters are racists!
I never said this at all. I never said that those offering support for RLB, while keeping alive the original lie/mistake, were even all Labour supporters. I did not say that those doing so were racist. I most definitely do not think that all, or even a significant proportion of, Labour supportors agree with them. I would most definitely not say that "all" or "most" or even "many" Labour supporters are racist.
Any other words you want to put in my mouth?
It looks like Joris is about to do something very un-Tory and announce what amounts to a very labor-esque programme of Keynesian economic stimulus.
Johnson will keep announcing capital spending plans for the next five years. It's what he does. It's what he always does. Money will be syphoned off by cronies to prepare for the mass building projects, but very little will ever get built. How many bridges will the voters buy, before they realise they can't use any of them?
Never said that.
You've been banging on about tropes non-stop for the last few days and are now using comments on twitter as evidence that labour supporters are anti-semitic.
Do not condone that.
Then stop doing it.
Take that comment back.
Why? Are people you accuse of racism not allowed to defend themselves? You may not think you're accusing people of racism, but for good reason it's quite a sensitive subject.
I have been very specific about why the lie/mistake linking the racist police killings in the USA to Israel is so insidious. Address that. And stop slandering me.
now using comments on twitter as evidence that labour supporters are anti-semitic.
It was on RLB's Facebook post, not twitter. Many of those offering support of the "you did nothing wrong, do not apologise" type specifically say they are not "Labour supporters" as it happens. I offer no "evidence" that Labour supporters are anti-semitic, and do not think that they are.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/29/responsibility-actions-antisemitism-rebecca-long-bailey
...and whilst moving past RLB, her dog ate my homework account of what happened reminds me of some of my more grovelling work emails along the lines "I wanted to tweak the original tweet, leader's office wanted me to take it down, I suggested an alternative formulation, in the meantime Keir made up his mind..." Can you blame him?
I agree its a conspiracy theory if Israeli forces have not been training US forces in physical confrontation skills.
Even if training did happen its still a stupid as **** theory considering US police were killing black folk (even more often?) before any such training could possibly have started.
Nigel Farage has given his endorsement to Starmer for denouncing BLMUK and referring it to a "moment". Keir puts on empty performances over action, he'll take the knee but he'll not call out racism. He's clearly being divisive within the party and it's supporters to win the popular vote, he's the thinking man's Boris.
I agree its a conspiracy theory if Israeli forces have not been training US forces in physical confrontation skills.
“Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”
IS NOT TRUE. Don't fall for the sidestepping to other training. No one is claiming that no USA cops have been training with, and been learning from, the Israeli forces. That is different to linking the central complaints of the BLM movement to Israeli.
Keir puts on empty performances over action, he’ll take the knee but he’ll not call out racism. He’s clearly being divisive within the party and it’s supporters to win the popular vote, he’s the thinking man’s Boris.
Say what now?
RLB wasn’t really sacked for being antisemitic, she was sacked for being politically clueless.
Very much this. With a side order of not doing the sensible thing when told to by the boss. Is there really much else to this matter?
Labour need - for now - to follow a simple rule about anything remotely anti-semitic/Jews/Israel/whatever, which is leave-it-the-hell-alone. Only a putz would fail to see that. RLB is (was?) that putz.
This is what keir said:
“ There's a broader issue here, the Black Lives Matter movement, or moment if you like, internationally is about reflecting on what happened dreadfully in America just a few weeks ago and acknowledging that as a moment across the world.
It's a shame it's getting tangled up with these organisational issues. I wouldn't have any truck with what the organisation is saying about defunding the police or anything else, that's just nonsense. “
In response to the defund the police requests from BLM UK.
In response to the defund the police requests from BLM UK.
Do you think UK police need more or less funding? I think more. I also think that money should go nowhere near increased use of military and other deadly hardware.
More funding obviously.
Edit: uk police are already very good at avoiding deadly force.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna737551
I think you're misunderstanding the call to defund the police so here's an example.
The Ministry of Justice has announced plans to build four new prisons to cope with overcrowding as our prison population grows. The prison system is subcontracted to private contractors to provide staff and services, making a healthy profit in the process. We're criminalising a huge percentage of young people, and disproportionately PoWER (BAME, POC). By defunding the police that money could be redirected towards mental health, education, housing and offsetting poverty.
It's been shown to work in the Netherlands, they're actually closing prisons.
I had high hopes for Keir, his credentials are good but his virtue is transparent
More funding obviously.
Not that obviously to me, obviously. I think it's possible to be anti-racist and not want to see funding cut for police (which would disproportionately negatively impact the poorest and most vulnerable). So the issue is with Starmer saying:
“Nobody should be saying anything about defunding the police. I was director of public prosecutions for five years. I’ve worked with police forces across England and Wales bringing thousands of people to court, so my support for the police is very strong.
It’s a shame it’s getting tangled up with these organisational issues, with the organisation Black Lives Matter, but I wouldn’t have any truck with what the organisation is saying about defunding the police – that’s just nonsense.
“There’s a broader issue here. The Black Lives Matter movement – or moment, if you like – internationally is about reflecting something completely different. It’s reflecting on what happened dreadfully in America just a few weeks ago and showing or acknowledging that as a moment across the world.”
Looking at some of the twitter response it seems that it's that he was a 'cop in a suit' that's the issue for some folks.
On movement versus moment - they're not mutually exclusive. There is a moment - I dunno, a guy at my work in a meeting last week talking matter of factly and movingly about having to explain to hie 8yr old daughter how some folks wouldn't like her because of her colour. Lots of that sort of thing. There is a moment that shouldn't be lost. Doesn't negate there being a BLM movement. Or that we should reduce funding for the police.
I think you’re misunderstanding the call to defund the police so here’s an example.
The Ministry of Justice has announced plans to build four new prisons to cope with overcrowding as our prison population grows.
I'd prefer a more equitable and evidence based approach to criminal justice, as in the Netherlands, and we'd be more likely to see this under Labour I think (though party politics get fiddly here with the 1991 Criminal Justice Act under the Major govt being the most liberal I can think of and Waddington as Home Sec saying before this time "prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse". Unfortunately since then cjs policy reversed under Tory and Lab govts. Worse under the former though. Whatever...) This isn't the same as Stermer not calling out racism.
I’m not misunderstanding it, nor is anyone, it means less money for cops and more for social programs, in the hopes it will eventually reduce crime. Uk police is already stretched to thin. The movement to defund UK police is nonsensical.
Cops per 100k in Netherlands: 295, UK: 211.(wikipedia). It seems that both the police force AND social programs need expanding.
It was on RLB’s Facebook post, not twitter.
Sorry, my mistake. Makes absolutely no difference though. The point I'm trying to make is that if you obsessively deconstruct every statement by labour politicians or supporters with the intention of finding anti-semitism, you're probably going to find it, especially when the distinction between anti-semitism and anti-Israel has effectively been removed in the popular mindset.
It needs to stop, because the end result is that labour people will just give up trying to defend themselves and go on the attack and that won't end well. They've had enough of being labelled racists when they are in fact the very opposite, especially from their own side. I know I have.
you obsessively deconstruct every statement by labour politicians or supporters with the intention of finding anti-semitism
I do not.
I have been very specific about a mistake made, and the importance of correcting it fully and unambiguously.
the end result is that labour people will just give up trying to defend themselves and go on the attack
Most of those commenting on that Facebook post who are doubling down on the lie/mistake in the absence of a proper unambiguous statement from RLB say they are not staying or were never with Labour… they are not necessarily “Labour people”.
@faerie MoJ aren't the police, they are what come after someone has been arrested (unless devolved).
I agree that prison isn't the answer but that has nothing to do with the police or their funding, as pointed out front line community policing needs more funding, not less. And yes, social intervention needs more funding too.
they are not necessarily “Labour people”.
Who are they then?
True, but they are the main beneficiaries. The police appear overstretched because they are having to respond to incidents and issues related to mental health crisises, drug and alcohol problems, rough sleeping and domestic violence. These are areas which have been defunded during austerity putting greater pressure on the police, whilst criminalising behaviours associated with poverty. Increasing police funding is not going to impact the problems, it won't make the streets safer, it just means that the system can incarcerate more people so that we don't see them.
Keir seems to be applying his human rights experience to negotiate the minimum disruption for billionaires and business, rather than supporting people.
they are not necessarily “Labour people”.
Who are they then?
‘Like’ is the wrong word. I’d always vote anti-tory however that is best served, but I’m not nearly as tribal as many here probably think. Labour has proven many times that as an organisation it leaves a lot to be desired, like most political parties. If I had my way I think I’d abolish all of them.
Who are they? Some are those who vocally support RLB, but say they never vote or support Labour. And there are those that say they won't vote or support Labour now that Corbyn no longer leads it. And people who reluctantly vote Labour, and wouldn't call themselves "Labour people". All valid positions. I in no way claim that they or their views are shared by Labour supporters in any general way. I also do not claim they are antisemtic, but their keenness to repeat the claim that Israel is linked to the racist killings in USA needs to me countered by RLB with a strong and clear statement that it is not the case, and an apology for sharing an interview that claimed that it was. She has a strong following beyond the Labour movement, and can usefully contribute to rebutting this conspiracy theory... and after sharing that interview has a responsibility to do so.
and an apology for sharing an interview that claimed that it was
Her mistake was using twitter to sycophantly ingratiate herself with a celebrity friend by calling her an 'absolute diamond'. I mean that's bad enough, who the hell uses that phrase? It's like something out of a 1960s cockney gangster movie. Her second mistake was sharing the interview without reading it first. That makes her an idiot, not an anti-semite. And not even a massive idiot, because Maxine Peake's comment in itself hardly makes her the next Hitler. It's a clumsy, uninformed and as it turns out inaccurate accusation against one part of the state of Israel, not a call to arms against world jewry.
Look at it another way. If Long-Bailey's actions are typical of the anti-semitism problem within the labour party, then we can all breathe a sigh of relief and get on with other things, and Keir Starmer can sleep at night confident that he's not the leader of a party of racist bigots.
I kind of agree though on the apology, she should come out an apologise for name dropping her mate in a crap attempt at using celebrity to boost her northern credentials. If we're lucky it might have saved us from future tweets about chippy teas and black pudding for breakfast.
That makes her an idiot, not an anti-semite.
I don’t think she is either. An apology and a clear statement about the police killing not being linked to Israel was needed as quickly as possible. And still hasn’t happened. I have no idea why. The way she handled discussions during the leadership campaign made it clear she isn’t stupid. There must be some “look strong and never apologise” nonsense going on here, and she wouldn’t be the first politician to do that, and won’t be the last… but the result here is a dangerous lie lives on that she could and should help to stop.
Still, Labour are more electable without RLB so, again, what's not to like?
A few weeks ago I saw a video of a speaker addressing a slightly bemused crowd at a london BLM rally where he was making the link between the Palestine issue and the BLM cause.
It worried me. I thought that any attempt to conflate politics or religion into the mix would only serve to undermine the central message of BLM, that of addressing prejudice relating solely to skin colour.
It was obvious that it would only be a matter of time before a celebrity leftie or Labour politician would do the same. Regardless of the veracity of claim and counter claim the effect has been to fill column inches with dross that connects two entirely unconnected issues, Fake news and whataboutary is the last thing the BLM movement needs to be dealing with.
If you follow any of the lefty Twitter feeds that constitute the fan club for Grandad and latterly RLB, then you’ll already know that absolutely EVERYTHING that’s wrong in the world is the fault of Israel, America or both.
Meanwhile Russia or Iran could carpet bomb a city and somehow remain completely blameless.
My enemies enemy is my friend is about as sophisticated as their political analysis gets, and we all know who they enemy’ is, right?
Binners, see also China. Genocidal tendencies towards the Uighurs, annexation of Tibet, etc, but hardly a peep.
The obsession with Israel/Palestine in some circles is toxic.
But isn't that the right way around? Shouldn't we be more critical of our or our allies actions rather than other countries?
& surely to Christ you don't think our or the USAs foreign policy is selfless and moral?
‘We’ should be equally critical of everyone, regardless, and weigh up ‘evidence’ rather than conspiracy theories cooked up by paranoid lunatics in their bedrooms.
The left will leap on any old nonsense to accuse Israel of anything (see RLB’s latest ridiculous tinfoil helmet contribution), while simultaneously coming out with absolute twoddle like Jezza insisting we shouldn’t rush to accuse Russia after the Salisbury poisonings, despite them essentially trolling everyone by openly smirking while saying they honestly definitely didn’t do it. Honest we didn’t *s*****
Yeah... because loads of people have access to weapons grade nerve agents
Hang on a minute.... maybe that was ‘them’ too?
Makes you think
Hang on a minute…. maybe that was ‘them’ too?
Well, to balance things up… the only person I know to make that claim used to be a LibDem, and then joined the SNP…
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/russian-to-judgement/
We can all fall into this hole, it’s nothing to do with being Labour, or of the “Left”.
Milne finally fully binned. The cull continues.
Does that mean we can work out how much money he’s been paid by the party in total now? That book deal is going to be many figures, isn’t it…
Corbyn may have had a point in trying to be more cautious regarding the novichok incident. However, who else would have beef with a flipped ex GRU and access to nervous agent? If Viktor Suvorov’s account of the GRU from before he defected are accurate, this incident was only a matter of time.
I hear the steeple at Salisbury cathedral is particularly impressive?
Well worth a trip over from Russia purely to have a look 😂
If Long-Bailey’s actions are typical of the anti-semitism problem within the labour party, then we can all breathe a sigh of relief and get on with other things
You know that's not the case though, right?
Any further reports of how much Saumas trousered in the end for him to finally **** off?
https://twitter.com/DamCou/status/1278104235196981249?s=20
You know that’s not the case though, right?
I do, but I reckon core of the problem is among the older generation socialists* from the 70s and 80s industrial towns and villages. Coming from a northern ex-pit village where the words **** and darky are still in general usage I'd be astonished if they weren't anti-semitic. There's basically still a huge racism legacy in the places which are traditionally seen as labour heartlands. Let's put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.
*and no doubt a very small number of younger ones sucked in by the socialist workers and their ilk who take great pleasure in offending as many people as possible who are not in their deluded bubble.
Milne finally fully binned. The cull continues.
Literally more and more electable by the day.
dazh - good news is that older generation of 70s/80s socialists are dying out and taking their racist, anti-semitic, misogynistic, bigoted views with them.
As an aside, the Gala should be ended.
Let’s put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.
I think this is the challenge the left is having globally. The views of modern metropolitan liberals that live in multicultural places are clashing with the white working class, in what is a predominantly white country. On the other hand the right is having to balance out neocons and libertarians.
Edit: Which is exactly why I think Keir is such a great choice just on background alone.
Let’s put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.
to be fair, I've a couple of friends who tick all those boxes and go. And Billy Brag's definitely a metropolitan liberal bit.ly/2JlCJ7v
and editing - it's a condescending and utterly untrue sterotype that white working class = racist, ignorant, intolerant.
Let’s put it this way, the Durham Miners Gala is not exactly attended by bed-wetting metropolitan liberals.
I always thought the opposite. It looked like a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries
a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries
exactly!
I always thought the opposite. It looked like a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries
Just did a quick search on google images. It's all pot-bellied flat-capped gammons as far as the eye can see.
it’s a condescending and utterly untrue sterotype that white working class = racist, ignorant, intolerant
The experience of growing up in one of these places tells me otherwise. My dad would regard himself as a working class died in the wool labour voter and was a massive fan of Corbyn, and I've just had to block him on facebook because he keeps posting shite about white lives matter and how no one kicked up a fuss when Lee Rigby was murdered.
I thought a fuss was kicked up when Lee Rigby was murdered? Did I imagine it?
The experience of growing up in one of these places
Ten of you in a cardboard box? [Sorry, /binnersmode].
I should tread carefully, I'm 1st (or 2nd on my mum's side) gen middle class and very solidly so, but 100% of my wife's family and a fair bit of my own are white working class, Leeds and Liverpool I guess rather an armpit of beyond, but still. Can't we all just gang up on the lower middle classes?
It looked like a theme park for middle-class suburban revolutionaries
You have two out of three already, so keep working at it and they might let you in.
You saying he needs to move to the suburbs
I should tread carefully,
The opposite here, Mrs Daz is the gin and tonic in the afternoon on the verandah type and I'm the white trash with no manners. It is weird though. I was once told by my FiL that racism didn't really exist these days, at which point I invited him to leave his leafy middle class utopia in suburban Kent and join me in a visit to a North Tyneside Working Men's club. We never did do that before he died and I really wish we had. Probably a good job though cos he wasn't used to hearing the F and C word used in each sentence.
You saying he needs to move to the suburbs
I think he's actually suggesting I should sell my stately home and buy a nice semi
I have been thinking about where Starmer sits politically. I have come to the conclusion he is a technocrat with a social conscience I do not think he is bound by any ideology
I think that is exactly how he has been presenting himself so far TJ. I have no idea if that’s the real him. Taking a bet on ‘competence’ rather than ‘ideology’ being the battle ground to try and win on in a few years time might be wise, it might not, we’ll see. I’m pessimist about it currently… we have undeniable incompetence in government right now (just count the dead bodies) yet they are still popular.
It's been said many times on this thread already, but it's over 4 years to the next election.
Starmer appears to be (sensibly) playing the long game. His personal ratings are already higher than Boris's as his sober serious air of competence and professionalism stands in stark contrast to the flailing buffoonery of the rolling car crash he's opposing.
As no new policies have been announced, we can presume that as it stands Labour policy is largely what it was under Grandad. This seems sensible seeing as it wasn't the policies that were labours problems, but the total lack of confidence in those tasked to deliver them.
And seeing as Boris seems to have discovered the magic money forest, accusations of things being unaffordable are largely now null and void.
There's also going to be the horrendous reality of a no deal Brexit to heap economic misery on top of Covid, so it looks like he's leaving them to fully own that particular shitstorm, seeing as theres nothing anyone can now do about it anyway
Tory lead has being steadily decreasing( I haven't checked sources on the article though):
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/06/labour-keir-starmer-popularity-election-boris-johnson-polls
Edit: nice article on FT regarding Starmer's activity and challenges he faces.
https://www.ft.com/content/ab079a6a-2ce3-466d-90fe-fffe52a715b5
I'm not quite sure how to word this but, it seems to me like mostly when people get called a technocrat or similar, and people talk about making decisions based on competence and facts rather than ideology, it just means "I agree with them". Everyone's a competent fact-led intelligent leader to someone, and there's always someone that can dismiss good solid logic as ideologically led.
The only thing is, it can leave you looking like a flag in the wind sometimes. Without core values, people can't infer where you'll stand on other things. And Labour's internal analysis of Miliband's failings made it very clear that "not knowing what he stood for" was a critical problem (IIRC the biggest problem).
Starmer appears to be (sensibly) playing the long game.
I'd prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.
Thousands of people are dying due to this government's actions and he's playing a "long game" for personal gain.
They need challenging, and challenging now. Not just case building to hold them to account in the future.
They're more scared of Piers Morgan and Marcus Rashford. And those two have shown that you can get change and U-turns out of them if you just have the minerals to stand up to them.
We're presently ruled by the most ideological government this country has ever seen. Far-right, Freemarket ultra-neoliberal zealots, but they never go anywhere near the word ideology and do everything in their power to play it down.
I’d prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.
Options are limited due to the massive Tory majority gained at the last election.
I’d prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.
Thousands of people are dying due to this government’s actions and he’s playing a “long game” for personal gain.
Personal gain? What's he gaining personally from this?
You may not have noticed, but this 'government' (with its huge majority) consists of Boris 'sock-puppet' Johnson and Dominic Cummings. That's it. They're not listening to experts, medical professionals, they're not even consulting their own cabinet members. They're not listening to anyone.
So there's little to be gained from the shouty-ten-second-youtube-clip approach to opposition, as that's not what the public wants to see at a time of crisis. It might make you feel better for 10 seconds but it's totally counter-productive.
But there's going to be a reckoning when we finally get through this and the rank incompetence of this shower is going to be held to account at a public inquiry. So 'building a case' is exactly what's required at the moment. He's got Boris to say a lot of things at PMQ's which are absolutely guaranteed to come back to bite him on the arse.
They’re more scared of Piers Morgan and Marcus Rashford
They're really not. Boris must know full-well what's coming at some point soon. He might actually about to be held accountable for his actions for the first time in his life. You can see how flustered he gets when he has to face Starmer. He knows he's got the measure of him and his blustering
I’d prefer a bit more immediate opposition, from the Leader of the Opposition.
Thousands of people are dying due to this government’s actions and he’s playing a “long game” for personal gain.
The issue is that it's unlikely to achieve anything, and an aggressive stance is likely to work against them (as it did Jeremy Corbyn), reducing their ability to achieve anything long-term.
As it is, Starmer comes across as measured and pragmatic, which is exactly what we need.
Well Starmer has basically walked in to the role and started trouncing Boris Bullshit from day one.
Either he is a genius or Corbyn was useless......or both.
Either way Labour is getting more electable by the day.....
Options are limited due to the massive Tory majority gained at the last election.
So we just sit and tut loudly for 4 years?
It's not about shouty soundbites, it's about holding them to account and exposing the lies, hypocrisy and incompetence, week in, week out. And ending each new piece of evidence with "as well as ..." so that the electorate begin to make the connection between this Tory government and the deaths and economic ruin they are causing.
Which in my view is what Starmer has been doing. along with sorting out internal party stuff
Starmers new appointment as shadow education secretary, Kate Green, made Frank Spencer Gavin Williamson look like the clueless imbecile he is when he made his announcement about schools this afternoon.
So in a similar vein to Boris v Starmer at PMQ's the shadow minister looks considerably more competent and able than the actual minister, and she's been in the role less than a week.
It all adds to the impression of a party that looks like a potential government in the eyes of voters. Not something it has been accused of for some time
So we just sit and tut loudly for 4 years?
No, not really.
He can publicise the numerous failings of the BoCum government whilst building a case for the electorate selecting Labour at the next election.
But real significant opportunities to change the direction (and not just a few piecemeal offerings) of Government are going to be few and far between.
The worst performing Government I've ever known and still not 20pts ahead.
Useless. Hopeless. Clueless.
https://twitter.com/apesahoy/status/1281597089705861122?s=19
Who are Labour - what are they? An excersise in Guardian fetishism.