Nope, it might be asking them the stop sinking to the bottom and further damaging a party which has a problem with AS.
I can't really be arsed getting into this, but one question I would ask is when people who accuse the tory party of having shady corporate backers (which no one with a couple of brain cells would deny), are they also accused of being anti-semites, or is this just an exclusively labour thing? The only thing you're doing with this anti-semitism bollocks is helping unaccountable corporate interests maintain their influence over politics and democracy.
further damaging a party which has a problem with AS.
Labour supporters are statistically no more likely to be anti-semitic than supporters of other parties btw, I think less in fact - I will try and find the source for that.
Now it looks like a dysfunctional corrupt borough council which needs to be put out of it’s misery, and that’s exactly what will happen as long as it’s under the control of these incompetent, self-interested centrist c***s.
Dysfunctional corrupt borough council pretty much describes the London Borough of Croydon.
A council which for years has been in the control of Labour right-wingers and has comprehensively failed its voters.
The Labour group on Croydon Council couldn't be more self-serving and incompetent. And they have a very close personal relationship spanning decades the current general secretary of the Labour Party Dave Evans.
Incompetent, bankrupt, featured on ITN national news due to its housing unfit for human habitation, and massively rewarding its councillors with generous "allowances", it is hard to imagine the Tories not winning the next local elections.
The only thing you’re doing with this anti-semitism bollocks is helping unaccountable corporate interests maintain their influence over politics and democracy
Not using tropes is important in and if itself everyone should get that these days. The issues being discussed are important, they need to be tackled responsibly without language that should be cast into the history books
Labour supporters are statistically no more likely to be anti-semitic than supporters of other parties btw, I think less in fact – I will try and find the source for that.
It may well be true, I do think that labour's focus on the Israeli/Palestinian mess leads to a escalation in language and attitudes
Yes, your dogged defence of binners’ juvenile insults/trolling/not engaging with the answers to questions he asks because he doesn’t like them has become increasingly hard to understand.
So much this!
Also Tractor producing figures Binbins? What about the issue at hand- Labour being skint?
Ian Austin is utterly loathsome.
He should've have never been within a mile of Labour.
Is now isolating.
Starmer now also self-isolating as one of his kids has covid... I assume it was an lft test cince he was in HoP this morning and if a PCR he should have been at home till they had the result
Suspect it was lft, and that his kid isn't ill. Sunday and Wednesday seem to be key days for lft for pupils.
Jesus, I thought Starmer had been isolating for the last 15 months.
The thought process that a politician goes through before tweeting something like that must be fascinating. How he thinks it would advance a solution to the problem or adds any value to to the discussion is beyond me.
What about the issue at hand- Labour being skint?
I thought the issue was that Starmer isn't cutting through and the weak front bench team.....
A secondary issue is what are they spending money on to have a sudden crisis, that might be more revealing about the structural mess and legacy liabilities that Starmer and the labour party is wrestling with
Jesus, I thought Starmer had been isolating for the last 15 months.
Made me laugh!
The thought process that a politician goes through before tweeting something like that must be fascinating. How he thinks it would advance a solution to the problem or adds any value to to the discussion is beyond me
Maybe, although not sure with him - because he's no longer an MP?
However your point is still 100% valid as he still has status.
But he became independent around 2019.
He really really pissed me off when he sent the letter as former Labour MP telling people not to vote for Corbyn - especially in red wall areas like ours.
Austin is also on twitter more or less blaming Corbyn for the funding crisis in Labour. Embarrassing considering how much money Corbyn bought with him.
Austin stands on a platform of mythical anti-extremism (Mainstream UK - Corbyn programmed AS in effect) - but he's actually one of the most extreme MPs I've ever come across.
Massive MP expense juicer too.
Embarrassing considering how much money Corbyn bought with him.
And what might be going out as payoffs as a consequence of his leadership
Yougov polling looking dire
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating
Assuming he isn't going to resign as Loto who can he get in to help him turn this around. Who can help him change those polls?
As for money, plenty of legacy issues for Starmer's Labour
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/19/labour-party-financial-peril-keir-starmer-members-leaked-report
Assuming he isn’t going to resign as Loto who can he get in to help him turn this around. Who can help him change those polls?
It's not going to happen currently.
They're not giving the voters anything to support. The ideology they are pursuing is paper thin.
It would need somes serious Tory cock-ups (food shortages, house prices etc) to shift the easy ride they are given.
Of course having a strong Loto might help!
Something may pop-up eventually that starts a Tory crumble. Market economics are effectively in turmoil with huge supply shocks. (Hence creeping inflation). But I think that's short-term.
It would need somes serious Tory cock-ups
I would have thought that one thing we could agree on by now is that Labour is not going to gain support simply by waiting for government cock-ups… they are making them daily, and still Magic Johnson keeps his support. Starmer’s approach so far (try and neutralise the idea that Labour is anti-British and only interested in supporting ‘minority interests’ in the minds of voters lost to the Tories via UKIP/BrexitParty) is a failure. It has not only failed to win people back, but is turning away others. A new approach from him absolutely is required. And Labour need to be working out now who should replace him closer to the next election.
If this bankrupts the Labour party or individuals, so be it. Actions have consequences.”
Actions like conducting a massive campaign against your democratically elected leader using anti-Semitism as a smear, with the encouragement of spies from foreign governments, including directly making stuff up (Joan Ryan).
Those kind of actions have consequences, or they should anyway. Amazing how they're quite happy to bankrupt the party over stuff done under a leader who's not even in the party any more.
If this bankrupts the Labour party or individuals, so be it. Actions have consequences.”
Actions like conducting a massive campaign against your democratically elected leader using anti-Semitism as a smear, with the encouragement of spies from foreign governments, including directly making stuff up (Joan Ryan).
[Incidentally I just looked up her Twitter and she's merrily retweeting stuff like this:
https://twitter.com/FCDONeilWigan/status/1410525104925286400
Corbyn said he would stop selling weapons to Israel. Funny eh?]
Those kind of actions have consequences, or they should anyway. Amazing how they're quite happy to bankrupt the party over stuff done under a leader who's not even in the party any more.
So, the virus running rampant, hospitals filling up, the economy grinding to a halt due to millions having to isolate, supermarket shelves bare, looming public sector strikes. This all getting a bit 1970s isn’t it? And yet the leader of the opposition is spending his time sacking party workers and waging war against lefty nutters who no one gives a shit about. It’s amazing that not only do we have the most incompetent PM and govt in history, but an even more incompetent LOTO and shadow cabinet. FFS Starmer, grow a pair of balls, swallow your pride and f*** off!
I imagine the motivations are varied, some of the people will have deep personal trauma, some might have just given up and be seeing the cheque as vindication.
Similar to why some people claim for medical negligence from the NHS and some don't
You posted this at least twice on contributions regarding Israel and Starmer’s labour
Yeah; puppet masters. And?
If you don’t think it’s a trope then fine, keep saying it.
Thanks, I will. Not that I need your, or anybody else's, permission to use whatever words or language I choose. You've been challenged to prove my comments are in any way anti-Semitic, and have failed. You've now admitted the whole thing is a fictional narrative inside your own head.
At least one other person disagrees but you think they are delusional, so keep saying it
And several have pointed out where you're wrong. Two others have even apologised for their insinuations/accusations. Time to do the honourable thing, and join them.
What you are actually demonstrating, very effectively, is just how smear campaigns work. Drip, drip, drip becomes a raging torrent of animosity, fuelled by nothing more than unfounded accusations and defamation. The genuine issue of anti-Semitism in our society, and the Labour party, is something that as been ignored repeatedly by various Labour leaders, including Blair, Brown and Milliband, yet suddenly, it became a massive problem under Corbyn. Really? But when you dig a bit deeper (you're used to digging, so it won't be hard for you), you discover that the reality is that Corbyn is the only Labour leader who has been openly critical of the Israeli regime, and the brutality imposed by a so-called 'democratic' state, on the Palestinians. The REAL reason the smear campaign started, was because there was a genuine fear amongst those who profit from the perpetuation of conflict (everywhere, not just in Palestine), that Corbyn would derail that gravy train. Penny starting to drop now? This has really **** all to do with actual anti-Semitism, or culture, or religion, and all to do with MONEY. And before you start off with your pathetic accusations of me using 'tropes'; Corbyn is just as opposed to the regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, China, India, Brazil, the USA, and anywhere where fascistic governments act against true freedom and equality, but with whom our government are happy to do business with. Just as he was opposed to the regimes in South Africa, Chile, Sri Lanka, Tibet and numerous other countries. Corbyn actually has many Jewish friends, a point the mainstream media conveniently ignore, who are unequivocal in the fact he is not actually the anti-Semite some seem to believe he is. Meanwhile, whilst all this divisive politics is being played out, the actual issue of anti-Semitism (real, not imagined), is getting worse. Xenophobia and fascism are on the rise. Divide and rule works very well for those who profit from conflict. And here you are; duped by that smear campaign yourself, and doing their work for them. Well done. Bow down to your puppet masters.
Bridges whilst I agree with all of that, have you ever considered the wonderful innovation of paragraphs?
I never, any any stage, thought Corbyn was anti-semitic and am fully aware of his work and background regarding opposition to regimes and injustices.
However, due to his useless leadership and useless media skills he was able to be seen as not dealing with anti-semitism in the party. Yes, I am also aware of the agenda of those stirring it up who don't seem to have the same agenda in stirring up racist issues within the tory party but that is what he had to deal with and he dealt with it poorly.
Too busy for paragraphs mate.
However, due to his useless leadership and useless media skills he was able to be seen as not dealing with anti-semitism in the party
Let me ask you a question; do you really believe all that? Like genuinely?
Thanks, I will. Not that I need your, or anybody else’s, permission to use whatever words or language I choose. You’ve been challenged to prove my comments are in any way anti-Semitic, and have failed. You’ve now admitted the whole thing is a fictional narrative inside your own head.
At least one other person disagrees but you think they are delusional, so keep saying it
And several have pointed out where you’re wrong. Two others have even apologised for their insinuations/accusations. Time to do the honourable thing, and join them.
What you are actually demonstrating, very effectively, is just how smear campaigns work. Drip, drip, drip becomes a raging torrent of animosity, fuelled by nothing more than unfounded accusations and defamation. The genuine issue of anti-Semitism in our society, and the Labour party, is something that as been ignored repeatedly by various Labour leaders, including Blair, Brown and Milliband, yet suddenly, it became a massive problem under Corbyn. Really? But when you dig a bit deeper (you’re used to digging, so it won’t be hard for you), you discover that the reality is that the only Labour leader who has been openly critical of the Israeli regime, and the brutality imposed by a so-called ‘democratic’ state, on the Palestinians. The REAL reason the smear campaign started, was because there was a genuine fear amongst those who profit from the perpetuation of conflict (everywhere, not just in Palestine), that Corbyn would derail that gravy train. Penny starting to drop now? This has really **** all to do with actual anti-Semitism, or culture, or religion, and all to do with MONEY. And before you start off with your pathetic accusations of me using ‘tropes’; Corbyn is just as opposed to the regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey, China, India, Brazil, the USA, and anywhere where fascistic governments act against true freedom and equality. Just as he was opposed to the regimes in South Africa, Chile, Sri Lanka, Tibet and numerous other countries. Corbyn actually has many Jewish friends, a point the mainstream media conveniently ignore, who are unequivocal in the fact he is not actually the anti-Semite some seem to believe he is. Meanwhile, whilst all this divisive politics is being played out, the actual issue of anti-Semitism (real, not imagined), is getting worse. Xenophobia and fascism are on the rise. Divide and rule works very well for those who profit from conflict. And here you are; duped by that smear campaign yourself, and doing their work for them. Well done. Bow down to your puppet masters.
Thanks for successfully proving my point
I note the continued use of well known tropes
I also note the use of the "some of his friends are (insert minority here)" defence
So back on topic, who can Starmer draft in to lift his profile and to start to make in roads on the PM who yesterday sounded like a babbling schoolboy who hadn't done his homework at PMQs?
However, due to his useless leadership and useless media skills
Loathe as I am to get into this, how does an opposition leader prevent the Daily Mail, Sun, Express, Telegraph and Times publishing what they want? What sort of amazing media 'skills' would prevent that?
Anyway back to more pressing issues, I see the nurses are considering industrial action in protest at the tories 3% pay rise. It's going to be interesting to see how labour pretend to be on the nurses side given they wanted them to have a 2% rise. Even Corbyn wouldn't have shot himself in the foot like that. Talk about useless leadership and media skills, there's a perfect example right there. 😂
who can Starmer draft in to lift his profile and to start to make in roads on the PM
He could draft in Angela Rayner to do his job after he's resigned. The problem is not the people around him, it's him. Nothing short of him going will solve this problem, and the longer he hangs on, the more Boris gets away with causing chaos, and the more labour will be blamed for not stopping him.
Thanks for successfully proving my point
That you've been duped by those who seek to profit from social division and conflict? No need to thank me; you did that all by yourself.
I note the continued use of well known tropes
Please; do feel free to point them out, and explain to the class why they are what you claim? Please.
I also note the use of the “some of his friends are (insert minority here)” defence
You really got bubkes, don't you?
So back on topic,
When floundering, change the subject. Right. Ok.
Why not attempt to actually answer a question put to you? Or can't you?
Yougov polling looking dire
I don't know why so much importance is attached to approval ratings by some people when the only thing which is of any importance is how people will vote.
Obviously the more questions they ask the more work is created for the pollsters, but "Clegg mania" in 2010 didn't translate into a huge increase in LibDem support and Corbyn's appalling ratings in 2017 didn't result in a fall in Labour support.
The latest opinion poll of voting intentions is by Survation (19-20 July) and it gives the Tories a 4 percent lead, which is the smallest Tory lead in several months.
As far as the Labour Party being skint is concerned I am sceptical of the problem. I have no reason to believe that it's not true but nor do I have any reason to believe that it is a serious problem.
The entire claim appears to be based on one comment made by David Evans which is that the reserves only exist for one month's wages.
Now Evans has a very clear anti-left agenda, something which he has pursued for many years as he also has his Blairite agenda.
He is a highly competent tactician with a long proven track record. My immediate thought was "who does he want to get rid of/clear out?"
He has campaigned for many years to restructure the party and has frankly talked about getting rid of, quote, "representative democracy". He now has the perfect opportunity as unelected General Secretary of the Labour Party.
My suspicion is heightened by the fact that he personally gives only 2 reasons for the party financial difficulties. Firstly costly legal settlements, and secondly the mass exodus of members from the party.
It is surprising that he gives falling party membership as a reason as it looks so bad in terms of the present leadership, Starmer was suppose to attract new members, Evans is smart enough to know that. He could have also talked about falling donations which is undoubtedly a very serious problem. But he chose not to.
The question is why? Personally I think he likely thought that reluctantly admitting the falling membership would make his claim sound more believable among possible doubters..... "the party's finances must be serious if Evans is forced to admit that people are leaving in their droves".
I have tried to find out which positions/jobs are likely to go in this new slimline party apparatus but had no luck, which adds to my suspicion. I know that the Labour Party is contracting out their complaints procedure, which is very strange for a political party, to a company called "Love Success".
I don't know how letting a private firm make a profit out of your complaints procedure will help with the party's finances.
Of course it might all be perfectly true that the Party's finances are dire, but it is a mistake to assume that it is just because Evans says it is.
Loathe as I am to get into this, how does an opposition leader prevent the Daily Mail, Sun, Express, Telegraph and Times publishing what they want? What sort of amazing media ‘skills’ would prevent that?
He can't prevent that but he can do a much better job of dealing with it - via his media presence (interviews, tv appearances) and leadership within the party.
Yes, in reality it wasn't that big an issue to deal with and the previous leaders didn't deal with it but they were not in the same position. And the position he was in was not helped by guess what - his useless leadership and media ability.
Let me ask you a question; do you really believe all that? Like genuinely?
Yes I write what I believe in. Don't you believe in what you write?
Yes I write what I believe in
So next question; what are your prime sources of information?
He could draft in Angela Rayner to do his job after he’s resigned.
I believe her personal life might be a bit messy at the moment so not the best time to step up.
As for the finances I really doubt they are that bad, as you say probably a part of the smokescreen to clear house in head office, arguably badly needed, but not the distraction you need
Why not attempt to actually answer a question put to you? Or can’t you?
I'm sure you are expert at defending your use of Language and would run rings round someone you yourself call delusional. You clearly have had a lot of practice defending you turns of phrase and no doubt are convinced that you are absolutely justified in using the words you do.
I still think they are tropes, used in the context of tropes, and are language that should be confined to the history books.
When floundering, change the subject. Right. Ok.
I was returning the thread back to the original topic, sorry to burst your ego bubble but it's more interesting than your increasingly hysterical defence of your language. You can start a new thread with that topic if you want.
I still think they are tropes, used in the context of tropes
So; explain why then. If you truly believe what you are insinuating, then you should be able to explain why.
If you've made a mistake, then it would be far more honourable to just admit it, apologise and move on.
sorry to burst your ego bubble
You can't even admit you've made a mistake, that you've ****ed up, that you're wrong and have no argument, and you're talking about ego? Lol!
The entire claim appears to be based on one comment made by David Evans which is that the reserves only exist for one month’s wages.
Yeah agreed, "reserves" is the key word here. I don't think he's talking about current acct balance, assets, donations, etc etc he's talking about a very specific bank acct. It might be that court fines or settlements are drawn from the reserve acct, but I'd imagine they have a plan for increasing the amount, even if it is a reduction in day to day spending.
Electoral Commission summary of Labour Party accts Oct 2020
Obviously it's 8-9 months out of date but there's £25.6M in the reserve acct...
I would have thought that one thing we could agree on by now is that Labour is not going to gain support simply by waiting for government cock-ups…
Unequivocally.
But the point is Starmer isn't doing anything. So the only current minuscule of hope is something drastic happens to the Cons.
Starmer had his chance. You could argue that the pandemic prevented him from going on the attack and making the most of being the new leader in the six months of his leadership... but it's hard to argue either that he'll get a second chance, or that he looks to have the skills to make the most of one. So we're back to a new Labour leader taking on the Conservatives at the next election. Which is where most of us were already this time last year. So we're back to... who, when and how...
He can’t prevent that but he can do a much better job of dealing with it – via his media presence (interviews, tv appearances) and leadership within the party.
So what should he have done?
You do realise outside of fantasy land the media get to choose who they interview and how and for example might deliberately edit a interview to make someone look bad?
A perfect example of the fantasy about good media is Cameron. He was put forward as an all conquering media expert with his PR background (itself a tad of a lie since having mummy get you a job as a PR flack isnt exactly much of a PR role) compared to Milliband but as soon as he actually went against the press he suddenly fell to bits.
As for leadership inside the party. What do you suggest? He was dealing with a bunch of ideological lunatics whose only interest was purging the left. These arent people open to rational argument so the only real option would have been to boot them out.
But the point is Starmer isn’t doing anything. So the only current minuscule of hope is something drastic happens to the Cons.
I am assuming that the latest poll which has reduced the Tory to just 4% is more about the Tories doing badly than Labour doing well.
Of course once any bad headlines disappear then double poll leads are likely and it merely represents a unimportant blip.
If you want win people over and motivate them to walk down to their polling stations on election day you really need to give them something to believe in.
Arguing that the Tories are shit and so are we but they are more shit than us is a poor strategy.
