Don’t forget the odd bods who finance him also finance tories, they’ll be happy with that outcome.
Really? who are they?
Indeed. Who are these shady financiers and 'puppet masters'?
Because I'm trying to work out how the labour party is simultaneously in the pocket of big business and corporate interests yet is also apparently skint.
Surely it's either one or the other?
eg Lord Sainsbury
Which Lord Sainsbury?
Because I’m trying to work out how the labour party is simultaneously in the pocket of big business and corporate interests yet is also apparently skint.
Starmer initially attracted a lot of funding for his leadership campaign from rich Blairite funders (and Israeli lobbyists). Most of them have now given up presumably because they realise they've backed the wrong horse so making a poor return on investment.
There would also need to be an awful lot of big donors to make up for all the members leaving in droves, and unions reducing support.
Surely it’s either one or the other?
Even a sixth former would be able to figure out it could be both.
If you have limited sources of funding then the probability is a)you will be skint unless those sources are being very generous and b)will be dependant on those sources since if they do take the cash away you will be completely screwed since you dont have the other sources to fall back on.
The best option would be to have lots of diverse groups giving you money since it removes both the power of any individual group and gives you a nice big budget.
Starmer initially attracted a lot of funding for his leadership campaign from rich Blairite funders (and Israeli lobbyists)
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady 'puppet master' characters are?
Lord Sainsbury doesn't really seem to fit that MO. Are there others?
The best option would be to have lots of diverse groups giving you money since it removes both the power of any individual group and gives you a nice big budget.
You mean like business, the unions and a membership? That kind of diverse? Or a different kind of diverse? Because having a balance between those 3 groups sounds pretty sensible to me. Or are we still going with the 'all business owners are bastards' narrative?
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
I've already posted a link to an article that lists them, but that would require a bit of effort and understanding on your part, so it's understandable that you won't have bothered. Maybe just post some more pictures?
How's this for balance? This is for the leadership campaign (which again he kept secret until after the election).
You’ll note that the total donations from these eight wealthy individual supporters came to an astonishing £455,000. The financial backing Keir received from the organised labour movement paled into insignificance by comparison. UNISON contributed £31,400, while the rightwing unions Community and USDAW each donated £25,000, which came to a total of £81,400.
He pretended to be a 'unity' candidate when actually he was backed to the hilt by vehemently anti-Corbynite right wingers.
Because having a balance between those 3 groups sounds pretty sensible to me.
Shame the balance is vanishing isnt it under the glorious leader? Which is where the skintness comes in.
Or are we still going with the ‘all business owners are bastards’ narrative?
I love the way rather than admit you came out with some drivel you then double down and decide to invent some new shite.
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
Why do you use the word "mysterious"?
Who, apart from you, is claiming that it is "mysterious"?
Morning comrades.
We've almost a full house of angry lefties now. We've nearly at hit critical mass. Where is he then? He's not formed a splinter group, has he?
Really? who are they?
So; you apparently don't know who they are, yet you accuse others of using 'tropes'. If you don't know who these puppet masters are, how do you make the leap to the imagined scenario of people using 'tropes'? You've been challenged to back up your accusations, yet so far haven't been able to come up with anything at all. Why is that? Is it just that you're using the pathetic, cowardly tactic of trying to smear those you disagree with, rather than actually engaging with the discussion?
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
It's been done, more than once, on this thread already. If you can't be bothered to actually read what others post, then you'll remain ignorant.
Rod Liddle; bit of gravy on his lapel...
HOUSE!!
😀
We’ve almost a full house of angry lefties now.
Well if you ever want to change anything for the better, then you will need these. Unlike Starmchair.
Morning comrades.
And on cue we have the hissy fit and some hilarious images.
We’ve almost a full house of angry lefties now.
LOL! @ you calling anyone "angry"!
When you get into one of your rants mate I can almost feel the spit flying out of your posts.
Apparently your mega-strops is the stuff of legend down the Rose and Crown.
Binners; you're a gambling man. I'm willing to bet you can't stay off this thread for at least a week. Call it a tenner. You in? You can confirm by simply not posting. If you do post, I win. Donation to a charity of the winner's choice.
LOL! @ you calling anyone “angry”!
Didn't he launch a tirade of abuse against another forum member, on this thread or perhaps another one? Something something Brexit blame others? Was pretty shocking to be honest. And then there's the mythical incident in the RnC, where he shouted at some racists, then sat back down to read his Guardian. Or did he flounce out? I can't remember. He probably can't either. 😀
Badge of honour - angry lefty.
Anything else is just a neoliberal support act.
Where are your mates now?
Flip Flop Chuka - J.P Morgan
Chris Leslie - CEO credit hobby
Jess Phillips - Photo shoots for the times.
Ian Austin - Lords lovey and Labour treason maker.
Rory Stewart - No idea
Tom Watson - Gambling advisor to gambling PLC thank you very much.
Keir Starmer - Leader of the lack of opposition.
Jo Swinson - who?
I'd rather be an angry lefty.
Because I’m trying to work out how the labour party is simultaneously in the pocket of big business and corporate interests yet is also apparently skint.
If Starmer is as good at soliciting corporate donations as he is at taking the fight to the Tories, then the answer seems obvious.
Vote Labour: we're broke losers.
I've just realised something about myself... I'm far too likely to give people the benefit of the doubt if they are left wing. Perhaps that's because the left wingers I know away from the internet are all inclusive, sharing, caring, reflective, thoughtful people. This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
In what way? How can you tell how 'inclusive, sharing, caring, reflective, thoughtful' people are (or not), simply from online interaction? And isn't basing a judgment on someone's character, just on that basis, somewhat naive and blinkered?
Perhaps that’s because the left wingers I know away from the internet are all inclusive, sharing, caring, reflective, thoughtful people. This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
There is no such thing as people from the internet.
Come around to mine I will make you a damn good cup of coffee and show you the trails.
That would be nice Rone. Once my ribs are fixed I might take you up on that.
Cool. 👍
Cracked broken ribs is nearly the most pain I've ever been in.
Sympathies.
This thread has become a bit of an eye opener recently.
Yes, your dogged defence of binners' juvenile insults/trolling/not engaging with the answers to questions he asks because he doesn't like them has become increasingly hard to understand.
And then there’s the mythical incident in the RnC, where he shouted at some racists, then sat back down to read his Guardian. Or did he flounce out?
I thought we were crowd funding for you to go there to get rid of all the racists from the Rose and Crown for ever?
You can try your luck in Bees Knees after that.
After all you are are self professed cleaner up of such establishments
I’m far too likely to give people the benefit of the doubt if they are left wing.
You don't seem to have much problem giving binners the benefit of the doubt Kelvin.
After all you are are self professed cleaner up of such establishments
You don't need to worry yourself with what I do. You can't even answer a question about what 'tropes' I and others are supposed to have used. That's pertinent to this actual thread. Why not have a go at doing that?
I used to think I was a leftie until I got on to the political threads on here, as compared to most people I knew, I was
Little did I know
I now realise, now I've been tutored in such things by the righteous brotherhood of the PFJ, that I'm actually worse than her...
Its been a chastening experience, but I thank you all for my 're-education'. I now see the error of my ways comrades.
How are the tractor production figures looking today? Glorious, I presume?
An hour. Not even a day. 😀
Here you go, Binners:
https://fareshare.org.uk/donate/
A tenner. That's all. Do something useful.
You’ve been challenged to back up your accusations, yet so far haven’t been able to come up with anything at all. Why is that? Is it just that you’re using the pathetic, cowardly tactic of trying to smear those you disagree with, rather than actually engaging with the discussion?
Not smearing, if you agree with the use of phrases such as puppet masters, return on investment,he’s not his own man etc that's up to you. You see them in your context.
The fact that I think they are essentially the same as age old anti semitic tropes is up to me.
It's the same thing from 2 different perspectives
The fact that I think they are essentially the same as age old anti semitic tropes is up to me.
So it's only in your own head? Totally imagined? A figment of your own delusion?
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
I used to think I was a leftie
And yet you very clearly use the term "leftie' as an insult. Regularly. Almost daily in fact.
So we aren't allowed to suggest that money influences politics in unhealthy ways, because that's anti-semitic?
That seems incredibly useful to people with lots of money who use it to influence politics doesn't it.
binners: who are these supposed paymasters?
everyone else: they're these specific people as already mentioned and sourced from (now) publicly available documents
binners: Comrades, [monty python picture], tractor production....
kelvin: everyone stop being mean to binners
So it’s only in your own head? Totally imagined? A figment of your own delusion?
Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward,
Etc
Seems pretty obvious to me what has happened in with Starmer. He was backed by various new labour supporting corporate interests to win the leadership so that they could hedge their bets in the event of a future labour government and steer policy towards their interests. He then took that as a license to go to war against the membership and re-establish new labour central control of the party, no doubt under the influence of the likes of Mandelson et al. But then when the same corporate backers realised he was useless and never going to be PM they realised their money was wasted, so the promises of financial support never came to fruition. The result is a party which has deliberately cut off it's main source of funding and grassroots support without anything to replace it. Nice one Keir!
Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?
Binners for once just admit that your preferred option of new labour centrist control of the party has utterly failed. It failed in 2010 and 2015, it failed in the 2016 brexit vote, it failed in losing control of the party to Corbyn and the left, it failed in 2019 with the anti-semitism and 2nd referendum shitshow, and now they've taken failure to another level with Starmer which unbelievably might even result in the bankruptcy and destruction of the party itself.
The only time this sorry litany of failure was interrupted was in 2017, when labour looked a bit like a democratic, grassroots political party which was interested in making the lives of working people better. Now it looks like a dysfunctional corrupt borough council which needs to be put out of it's misery, and that's exactly what will happen as long as it's under the control of these incompetent, self-interested centrist c***s.
So we aren’t allowed to suggest that money influences politics in unhealthy ways, because that’s anti-semitic?
There is more than one way to highlight issues with political funding, with all the history and recent events the left more than anyone else should understand language matters.
Alternatively Bridges thinks I'm deluded so I'm not sure why you give a fig about my views.
Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward,
Etc
Yes, which clearly makes every reference to puppet-masters in any context anti-semitic, even when it's not being used about Jewish people. 🙄
I doubt he even knew Richard Desmond was jewish tbh.
I would agree using the term is pretty ill-advised given it's historical use etc but I think it's quite a stretch to argue it's automatically anti-semitic.
Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward
You're actually trying to conflate my comments on here, with someone totally unconnected to me in any way? That is beyond desperate. That hole must be really, really big by now.
Keep digging. Be careful that the spoil doesn't fall back in on you though.
Yes, which clearly makes every reference to puppet-masters in any context anti-semitic, even when it’s not being used about Jewish people
Language matters, context of a Labour politician/ member/ voter saying it more so
But I'm delusional, ignore me and keep saying it if you want
Dig, dig, dig, dig.....
'Tropes' is just a way to try to put words in another's mouth and then slag them off and shut them up for being a racist. You need to be able to distinguish between zionism and racism. Zionism is used to justify Jim Crow laws against intermarriage plus ethnic cleansing plus endless military aggressions, it is a racist ideology supported by inter alia British racists then and now.
If people make an investment in a party, be it unions or car distributors, they expect to have influence. If not, it's probably better PR to give it to a charity. Why did Starmer delay making public his sources of finance. Is that a trope?
You need to have a cup of tea
You posted this at least twice on contributions regarding Israel and Starmer's labour
Yeah; puppet masters. And?
If you don't think it's a trope then fine, keep saying it.
At least one other person disagrees but you think they are delusional, so keep saying it.
‘Tropes’ is just a way to try to put words in another’s mouth and then slag them off and shut them up for being a racist.
Nope, it might be asking them the stop sinking to the bottom and further damaging a party which has a problem with AS. Plenty of other ways to say what you are trying to get across
Why did Starmer delay making public his sources of finance.
See you can do it
If Starmer was so cheap to buy, why weren't British Muslim backers funding him? The money plus 10x the voter base must surely be attractive?
