The thing is that Starmer has just asked some very clear, concise, carefully worded questions - just like you'd expect from a highly experienced senior lawyer - and Johnson answered (once you discount the blather) with out and out lies.
There's going to be a public inquiry about all this, for certain. And when that happens this is all ammunition for when Boris is up in front of it to be held to account.
I think that is exactly what Starmer is Doing here. He can't change anything, as this government is listening to nobody, but he's subtly preparing the case against them for the inevitable day of reckoning.
Its a hell of a lot more effective political strategy than a ten-second shouty Tweet. Thank christ we've actually got an opposition again. Its been a while.
Thank christ we’ve actually got an opposition again.
The reason for this is down largely to perception. The media and people like yourself have removed the blinkers. I'm pretty sure if you compared the comms before and after the election they'd be pretty similar in content. The difference now is that people are listening rather than looking for excuses to reinforce their prejudices. Due in no small part again to the fact Starmer is a serious, competent and most importantly establishment backed operator. People listen to those who appear superior to them, whether they deserve it or not. Corbyn never had that in his favour.
The reason for this is down largely to perception.
Is it indeed? In that case, you can tell me if you think that Mr Starmers predecessor would have done this?
PMQ's has just finished and Kier Starmer has already written a letter to the PM asking him to return to the house and 'correct the inaccuracies' (read: the lies) in the answers he just gave in the commons, and pointing out those said inaccuracies (lies), then making the letter public
Yeah, I'm sure Jezza would have been straight on that!
https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/1260539986107076613?s=20
What he's doing here (as well as pointing out lies) is building up a dossier of evidence against the government for the upcoming public inquiry.
Grandad would have done his usual shouty ten-second thing for Twitter, then buggered off back to the allotment for another week
Corbyn never had that in his favour.
What Corbyn never had was a single ounce of political savvy
https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1260542817715265536
Thought that was worth it to show the times.
I don't know exactly what's changed behind the scenes but polish certainly seems to have been applied to the operation.
What is Dazh on about? People are being exposed to competence, it has nothing to do with deference.
To quote one of the replies to Heather Stewart’s tweet... “It’s [PMQs] a joy to watch”
And it is.
Ironically Dazh still has his own Corbyn tinted perceptions intact. Meanwhile back in the real world Binners is more upbeat and yes we may finally have an opposition worth supporting who can hold the idiots to account.
If there is any difference in perception it is because what is being perceived now is a thought through systematic approach which is basically a cross examination. Johnson's team will be very worried about this.
What was being perceived before was a doddering relic trying to out-oaf the biggest oaf of them all and looking like he was going to need a long sit down afterwards with a blanket on his knee to recover. Because that is what it was.
I was very amused by the 'commentators' on the radio saying the remote PMQs created an atmosphere more like a court as that is exactly where Johnson should be. It was also revealing that the guy from the Torygraph said that a more austere and serious atmosphere suited Starmer whilst the braying theatrical atmosphere of 'real' PMQs was where Johnson was more comfortable.
Unsurprising really. A serious and professional man being suited to a serious and professional atmosphere contrasted with a clown being more suited to a circus. I'd rather be led by a serious professional than a ****ing clown.
it has nothing to do with deference.
You don't think people infer competence from seniority? How the hell do you think Johnson got where he is? I'm not saying Starmer isn't competent, quite the opposite in fact, but he's helped hugely by his title and the letters after his name.
he’s helped hugely by his title and the letters after his name
Nah.
Ironically Dazh still has his own Corbyn tinted perceptions intact.
You do know I joined up to vote for Starmer don't you? I'm not having a go at him, I'm just pointing out that he benefits from a much more generous treatment from the media and others on account of his establisment credentials.
Daz - seriously? FFS! - he's the son of a nurse and a toolmaker from Southwark, not little lord ****ing Fauntleroy!
I don’t infer competence for Corbyn in the role he has now vacated on the basis he wasn’t competent in the role.
Those who wanted Corbyn as leader of the opposition in order to harm the opposition showed more political competence than Corbyn.
Dazh, Dazh, Dazh, you really don't get it, Johnson was popular because he told the idiots what they wanted to hear, indulged their mildly racist tendencies and provided lots of short slogans. Corbyn was not popular because he was a bumbling old man, well meaning but seriously out of touch with the modern world wedded to policies that were 20 years out of date.
Today people are less likely to infer competence from seniority as you put it (interesting outdated concept right there), look at the distrust of 'experts'. People don't think like you anymore. They judge on how people behave, Starmer is getting it right, he only needs to properly appeal to the middle swing voters, people like me really, and keep the traditional Labour voters happy. Again something Corbyn misjudged, he was still pushing 1970s policies assuming that's what the working classes wanted, many didn't, they wanted better standards of living and were happy to scapegoat someone else (the EU) for not getting them.
he’s the son of a nurse and a toolmaker from Southwark not little lord ****ing Fauntleroy!
Yes I'm more than aware of that. He's from solid working class roots and I've never said otherwise. One of the reasons I supported him from the start of his leadership campaign, along with his past efforts in things like McLibel. To pretend he doesn't benefit from being a sir and a QC is a bit daft though as he clearly does and is taking advantage of it.
To pretend he doesn’t benefit from being a sir and a QC is a bit daft
His middle name is Rodney which more than cancels out Sir and QC.
To pretend he doesn’t benefit from being a sir and a QC is a bit daft though as he clearly does and is taking advantage of
What a weird take, do you have any idea how hard it is to be made a QC, let alone someone with Starmers educational background
Even she can’t spin it
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Now that would be a turnaround!
do you have any idea how hard it is to be made a QC
That's exactly the point. The fact he is a QC (and a sir) gives him an advantage because people automatically are less likely to be critical of him and show him more respect on account of his titles and qualifications, rather than just what he says or does at any one point in time. Are you saying it's not an advantage?
to pretend he doesn’t benefit from being a sir and a QC is a bit daft
I think its admirable that someone from such a humble background can rise up to achieve that status at the top of the establishment, all off his own back.
He's the absolute epitome of what a meritocracy is meant to be about
Shame I missed this by the sound of it.
I do have some misgivings about the definitely needed public enquiry.
In my opinion, what we need urgently is a quick, accurate review of decisions and actions with a view to learning how to get it right next time, ahead of any blame game. My worry is that any enquiry will get distracted by the blame game aspect, the lawyers will make a fortune out of public money and in 2 years time we are just as ill prepared for another pandemic.
He’s the absolute epitome of what a meritocracy is meant to be about
Standing opposite a man who is the absolute epitome of what a plutocracy can vomit up.
In my opinion, what we need urgently is a quick, accurate review of decisions and actions with a view to learning how to get it right next time, ahead of any blame game. My worry is that any enquiry will get distracted by the blame game aspect, the lawyers will make a fortune out of public money and in 2 years time we are just as ill prepared for another pandemic.
We won't need to wait 2 years - not even 2 months - although given that infection to death averages 3 weeks I can't spin the phrase's handle for another unit of time, before we can see whether the country is getting it right.
He’s the absolute epitome of what a meritocracy is meant to be about
Do you reckon he'd have got to the same position if he was born in gorton to a couple of doleys? You're right, he's done extremely well for himself, and credit to him, but he was undoubtedly helped massively by growing up where he did. My Mrs went to a very posh grammar school in Kent. It was all state funded but the difference in her education and background to mine in a Newcastle council estate-fed comprehensive can't even be compared. There are different levels of meritocracy.
but he was undoubtedly helped massively by growing up where he did
In a country Manor House before being sent to prep and then Grammar school?
born in gorton to a couple of doleys?
Maybe not the first generation (if they did they would be also missing something that would make them less than ideal PM material) but certainly the second generation could and should be able to achieve similar.
Keir Starmtrooper
Shame I missed this by the sound of it.
You can watch again here:
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/c233c46e-2773-4ded-a412-e2a8ea5cc1ab?in=12:02:00&out=12:15:20
The time links dont seem to be working , but it starts around 12:02.
Its a pleasure to watching Kier feed BlowJo rope.
Good lord watching that was wonderful.
After years of political despair, I find myself hoping...
Do you reckon he’d have got to the same position if he was born in gorton to a couple of doleys? You’re right, he’s done extremely well for himself, and credit to him, but he was undoubtedly helped massively by growing up where he did. My Mrs went to a very posh grammar school in Kent. It was all state funded but the difference in her education and background to mine in a Newcastle council estate-fed comprehensive can’t even be compared. There are different levels of meritocracy.
Just, cos, you know, he may very well have done. My Dad was born in Gorton. Not to a couple of doleys, but his dad worked nights in a factory all his life, and they lived in a two-up two down with an outside loo. My dad left school at 14, got a job as an office boy, worked his way up, and when he retired he'd been a stockbroker for 35 years.
A nice little summary
That's true enough.
A mate of mine is very active in local labour politics. She posted a piece praising Starmer. There has followed a tirade of vitriolic abuse from a selection of the local Corbynites. all the usual Tory-lite/Traitor/Capitalist Conspirator, you were all horrid to poor Jeremy rubbish
The sooner they all slope back off to the Socialist Workers Party or whatever shower George Galloway is fronting nowadays, the better
She posted a piece praising Starmer. There has followed a tirade of vitriolic abuse from a selection of the local Corbynites.
Yes, it's terrible when supposed Labour supporters won't get behind their leader.
That’s true enough.
A mate of mine is very active in local labour politics. She posted a piece praising Starmer. There has followed a tirade of vitriolic abuse from a selection of the local Corbynites. all the usual Tory-lite/Traitor/Capitalist Conspirator, you were all horrid to poor Jeremy rubbish
The sooner they all slope back off to the Socialist Workers Party or whatever shower George Galloway is fronting nowadays, the better
Left wing Twitter absolutely detest Starmer, even moreso than Dazh loathes his wife for having a better education
The whole things very odd
Just watched some of the pmqs and I find it incredibly frustrating that Johnson won't engage into any discussions regarding extending the transition period. We are in an incredibly precarious position at the moment, the government is spending huge amounts of money on top of the 200 billion that it is estimated Brexit will cost by the end of 2020 and he is too stubborn to even say "let's take a look at the implications".
I did enjoy watching some parts of it, he makes Boris look like even more of a baffoon than usual.
The whole things very odd
They seem very determined to splinter society along them an us lines as much as anyone else.
Jesus H Christ, that reply from BloHard!
Question: Were you too slow?
Proof of what the government DID say provided, which later turned out to be wrong going forward (as it was then transmitting in the community) and changed accordingly, by Starmer and Mr Prime Mopheads' reply is "this is what is said" with an extra bit in bold, which STILL says what Starmer said it did.
What a c0ckwomble.
In Boris' reply letter* he's blatantly playing the "you mustn't question anything we are doing during wartime" card. Out right saying that Starmers role at this time is just to play along with whatever the government do like a good little opposition leader.
Incredible really.
* Not that Boris even wrote that...
He’s completely lost the Telegraph hasn’t he!
