Really want to wake up one day to find that man in number ten. I still can’t see the path to it though.
The contrast doesn’t get much starker than the calm, measured tone asking concise and pertinent questions and the meaningless waffle that was supplied as a non-answer to any of them.
With every encounter, Johnson ends up looking even more lightweight and clueless
Anyone got a link to the radio 4 thing? Can't find it (easily) on bbc sounds...
Charisma free… but correct tone, and questions, and looking to the future
Really want to wake up one day to find that man in number ten. I still can’t see the path to it though.
You probably wouldn't have seen Attlee defeating Churchill then, a charisma free man if ever there was one but efficient calm and determined. The more the blustering shambling pathetic Churchill tribute act hams it up the more cutting the quiet forensic and calm approach will be. Remember he's not playing this role for you it's for those that actually voted for Boris and it's to win over the press. The greater the contrast the greater the impact.
voted for Boris and it’s to win over the press
At the minute. Boris’s incompetence is responsible for the deaths of 10s thousands of people who by and large, vote Tory.
Remember he’s not playing this role for you it’s for those that actually voted for Boris and it’s to win over the press.
I need also to remember he has to take an approach that works over years, not weeks. And I do keep telling myself that. And yes, as you say, he has to win over people who don’t currently want him to be PM, not those of us that do, and that is the whole point. And I keep telling myself that as well. The “not left wing, just want a competent government” voter might be ripe for swapping their vote from Conservative to Labour in a few years time, even if the real Johnson populist fans aren’t.
I still can’t see the path to it though.
The only way, I believe, is to publicly drive a wedge between the Tories under Joris and the right wing press. This is made all the more difficult in the age of selective feeding of 'news' via social media.
It will have to be something along the lines of making it obvious that the press can no longer stand behind 'their man' because that man is so utterly useless, incompetent and dangerous.
But this is going to be very difficult because Joris is effectively fronting their alt right takeover for them. Starmer must hold Joris up to ridicule publicly and link him with that section of the press at every opportunity.
Today was a good start, though. Magic Grandpa would still be trying to have a show of hands about what to do, or be uncontactable in his potting shed.
Was a thing on the news the other day about Warren buffet pulling all good airline investments.
Iirc, his companies had about 10 percent of all the US airlines.
And he's getting out.
Not a wide place to invest now.
Nice speech, the delivery doesn't bother me but it's just sound bites if he doesn't back it with policy or action. At least he's asking questions but he's no opposition to the tories when he's adopting their policies. I'm disappointed so far, and Labour wouldn't get my vote yet
Kelvin.
Whilst the aviation industry has been shut down by order of the state, as you say, I'm thinking about the future of industry. If, for arguments sake, all government restrictions were removed tomorrow, the demand would be much lower than before and future geowth prospects would be less than would potentially be the case for other industries
So pinning your hopes on the world economy returning to normal, not just any time soon but maybe ever seems to me to be either extremely short sighted or extremely optimistically long sighted. Better to focus on potential growth areas moving forward than spending too much money on preserving businesses that may be a poor fit in the brave new world we now find ourselves in.
Miliband has been everywhere today doing a good job on the “sending the workers back into the workplace, without reassurances”… was never PM material in my eyes, but has turned out to be a great appointment in his current role.
Better to focus on potential growth areas moving forward than spending too much money on preserving businesses that may be a poor fit in the brave new world we now find ourselves in.
And the people working in that industry? Medium term, many will be looking to shift to a ‘growth’ area… in the short term, if the government doesn’t help to keep them in work, many we’ll be seriously hit. The Labour statement linked to still looks completely sound to me.
inkster - see link re Qatar Airlines; no recovery until 2023/4.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-qatar-airways/qatar-airways-sees-slow-recovery-in-travel-from-pandemic-idUKKBN22N1TF
Also, they have billed trainee pilots for c£130k each as part of their training agreement - in place so employer can recover costs if trainee walks but now being applied as employer has ended the training.
Kelvin - what 'growth' areas are you referring to? Brexit transition will bring increased risk to financial services and multiple other sectors from a combination of EU competition, predatory US deals and prolonged timescales to complete trade deals; we have few core manufacturing industries and they generally have low productivity compared with their competitors - granted, we have a small number of leading high tech industries.
Educational standards of the UK workforce are lower than many other industrialised nations.
Automation will continue to develop with a consequent impact on jobs.
Green revolution? Lots of fine words for years but no real action.
I have posted previously that we have deceived ourselves into believing we are a prosperous nation - we aren't as we don't have a solid manufacturing base.
Services are ephemeral and portable; retail, except for groceries and other essentials, has taken a pasting from which it will struggle to recover - selling coffee, sandwiches and cheap clothes do not provide the foundations for a robust economy.
There isn't much of an upside.
I refer, again, to Warren Buffett - it's only when the tide goes out you see who's been swimming naked.
The tide is still going out and will continue to for several months.
what ‘growth’ areas are you referring to?
Dunno, Inkster suggested leaving the employees in one sector high and dry, and investing in other potential growth areas instead… whatever they may be… I was pointing out that workers can’t shift from one sector to another overnight, and still need short term help.
So should the gov provide (short term) support to sectors which are unlikely to survive in their present form - by that I mean doing what they currently do and at the same scale.
Hard to justify, either way.
As for potential growth areas, I wish I could see some - but I can't.
So should the gov provide (short term) support to sectors which are unlikely to survive in their present form
Sounds daft when put like that. Why not support the people instead through transition to other fields via education, retraining and supporting those growth industries*.
*whatever they may be
May 'sound daft' but it's exactly what's happening.
There is no point in propping up industries that are still going fail just to keep the employees on a salary. Just give the money to the employees as a short term (6 month?) allowance to let them find other work. If there is no other work then those people are in the same boat as everyone else looking for work for whatever reason but didn't happen to work for say an airline that was artificially kept alive.
This thread still is about Kier Starmer isn't it?
kerley, yes it is; it got a bit derailed by a post up there ^^^ about Labour's response to supporting airlines and subsequent posts followed on from that.
So, getting back on topic....Starmer has, IMO, started well.
Charisma free… but correct tone, and questions, and looking to the future. Get the right actor to deliver those same words, and it would be standing ovations across the country…
Perhaps this year will have people looking past charisma and delivery (Johnson style) and looking for something else… I’m not holding my breath though.
Maybe the people of the UK should look to the US and see how badly wrong it can get if you elect "personalities" rather than people.
A buffoon as PM is better than a potato brained Caligula, rage tweeting all weekend about conspiracy theories (Obamagate) that only exist in his head.
Sir Keir should keep being calm, rational, reasonable and a breath of fresh air.
Maybe the people of the UK should look to the US and see how badly wrong it can get if you elect “personalities” rather than people.
We don’t need to look that far.
Surely, given the present climate, the more people see of Starmers sober, statesmanlike manner, the more apparent this will become?
Hopefully, we could then get back to having actual proper politicians in charge, not journalists and reality TV nobheads
Possibly. I know several confirmed Tory voters who have espoused the opinion that Boris will have a difficult job next election. Starmer is making the right impression so far.
Starmer is making the right impression so far.
agreed, im a <cough> Tory, and would swing to vote for Starmer if his policies werent bonkers..
Are they bonkers?
Ye gods, I've just watched
It's like night and day, compared with the Sunday Evening Boris Bafflement Bulletin. Delivery, tone, gravitas.
Are they bonkers?
We still don't really know. And why would we? It's early days in the middle of a national crisis. Plenty of time for that. I'd hazard a guess that we won't be seeing free broadband for everybody as the headline manifesto pledge though.
I'd like to think that he'd concentrate on what he's talking about there - "care workers were paid less than the real living wage, care homes were an “afterthought” and a lack of public services investment"
To begin with, he's doing well at creating what will be a first impression of him with a lot of voters, and right now he's looking everything that Boris isn't. mainly.... competent
im a <cough> Tory
mrmonkfinger
Member
Are they bonkers?
sorry, i realise that read as though they were! in fact im saying i believe them not to be at the moment, if they carry on that way then there will be a large swing to him.
And first impression last, binners.
Ah ok, Sui. Yes, a credible competent alternative to the Court Jester will be welcomed here.
So long as he doesn't go the full Corbyn of nationalising air and offering free cake to everyone, every day he should walk it.
The only blot on the horizon is a 'statesmanlike' Tory alternative once Boris is finally carted off. Certainly not Robot Raab or oily Rishi, but there might be someone in the ranks.
The only blot on the horizon is a ‘statesmanlike’ Tory alternative once Boris is finally carted off.
'Statesman like' and 'committed to exiting the EU' are mutually incompatible.
You can't be statesmanlike if your chief policy is "yah boo sucks to you Johnny Foreigner". If only the great unwashed would bloody realise.
So long as he doesn’t go the full Corbyn of nationalising air and offering free cake to everyone, every day he should walk it.
The only blot on the horizon is a ‘statesmanlike’ Tory alternative once Boris is finally carted off. Certainly not Robot Raab or oily Rishi, but there might be someone in the ranks.
But who - to me Gove looks like a comedy character. If he is the successor then I can't see him endearing himself to the unwashed brexit loons who love BJ so much. Rabb is wooden. Sunak would be a good outside bet but then you have to face the 150k moderatley racist tory members before you go to a GE.
The only blot on the horizon is a ‘statesmanlike’ Tory alternative once Boris is finally carted off. Certainly not Robot Raab or oily Rishi, but there might be someone in the ranks
Have you seen any sanity in the Tory party recently? The full-on nutjob cult of Brexit has completely taken over the party. Any leader will have to be elected by same senile old racists as gave us Boris (so that rules out then only vaguely sane one as too....erm... 'brown').
Remember when we had Dave and we thought it couldn't get any worse?
Then we had Theresa and we thought it definitely couldn't get any worse?
Now we've got Boris and we're thinking to ourselves, surely to christ, fo the love of everything that is holy, it really can't get any worse than this?!!!
Now take a look at the Tory front bench...
The next few years are going to be a good time to be leader of the opposition. The last four years were too, but you know..... him...
The scorn poured on nationalised industries and free broadband etc ... whilst the state keeps everything going in midst of the pandemic.
The next few years are going to be a good time to be leader of the opposition. The last four years were too, but you know….. him…
Which is why party polling has still got Labour in the doldrums. You would think in the middle of the Tories making such a mess of things Labour would be walking it with a new leader...
(I know it's very early days but there you go.)
Raaaaaaaaab is probably being lined up. The swivel-eyed loons will probably like the 'Hannibal Lecter The Early Years' vibe.
Don't rule out some insanity. Priti Patel could be the 'see, we are definitely not racist' candidate as her nastiness is so outstanding.
(I know it’s very early days but there you go.)
Oh....erm... ok comrade. I don't think I need to add owt to that. well said. See you in 4 years.
Don’t rule out some insanity. Priti Patel could be the ‘see, we are definitely not racist’ candidate as her nastiness is so outstanding.
In the totally vile, evil, devoid of a single shred of human decency, no-forgiving-features-whatsoever stakes I think she's even trumping Iain Duncan Smith! And that takes some doing!
She'd be about as successful as him, electorally, too. I hope they do it
Priti Patel
The darker, female members of the tory party seem to over compensate to show the white, male members of the tory party that they are more than capable of being completely despicable human beings as well.
**** every single tory.
whilst the state keeps everything going in midst of the pandemic.
"Keeping everything going" is not the same as "buying it all back"
This simple misunderstanding is why Corbs still thinks he 'won the argument' Despite not realizing it wasn't an argument, it was an election.
In the totally vile, evil, devoid of a single shred of human decency, no-forgiving-features-whatsoever stakes I think she’s even trumping Iain Duncan Smith! And that takes some doing!
She’d be about as successful as him, electorally, too. I hope they do it
It depends. The most unnerving thing about the current vogue of right wing populism is how many hidden assholes there were.
That was Trump's major triumph he effectively said "It's OK to be an asshole. It's OK to let your inner asshole win". Back in 2015 no one thought that being an asshole could become a mainstream political movement.
The worst thing was realising just how many barely suppressed assholes there were 'out there'.
Maybe someone as chillingly vile as Priti Patel can get assholery to triumph over everything...
Despite not realizing it wasn’t an argument, it was an election.
Pretty much nails why Corbyn failed.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Asshole.
Sorry, nothing useful to add.
Also,
You can’t be statesmanlike if your
chiefonly policy is “yah boo sucks to you Johnny Foreigner”. If only the great unwashed would bloody realise.
Minor but I think important correction.
They simply don't have any policy, it's just shoot from the hip and see what falls over.
Jeez Starmer just crushed Johnson at PMQs
the braying mob of tories not being there helps, but he really is good at this
while Johnson is just desperately bad
I watched it too and agree with you.
I wonder what proportion of the population watch it though.
Not enough I bet.
Jeez Starmer just crushed Johnson at PMQs
Won't make much difference. The sort of people who support Johnson will just accept his bluffing. He should keep with the lofty superior tone though, that's the sort of thing that will cut through. It bemuses me why, but people are suckers for a bit of deference, and in Stamer they have someone who they can see as a superior.
