Looks like McDonnell is going to war with Mandelson. Should be interesting.
https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellmp/status/1391494173140865029?s=21
You know I’m just a gobby northern bell-end who colours things in for a living?
Please tell me that you wear cloggs to make the picture complete!
Btw how did the BNP do in your neck of the woods? They didn't do too well down here.
They stood in a ward by-election in a sprawling council estate which has often been referred to as a white ghetto. For many many years they have targeted it as they have always believed that it represents their natural territory.
Last Thursday the BNP managed to get 55 votes there. The Labour Party candidate, whose name btw is Kolapo Aaron Agboola, received 1214 votes, and won.
So much for the "growing far-right threat" that those who vilify working-class people because they don't understand them talk about.
Labour got the West Yorkshire Mayor. Raising a glass to Brabin now.
those who vilify working-class people because they don’t understand them talk about
Er… who vilified ‘working class people’? There’s no need for the BNP these days anyway, the Tories have mopped up their policies and voters now.
That ward result…
New Addington North ward
Labour’s Kolapo Aaron Agboola won with 1,214 votes and will now be a councillor for New Addington North.
Conservative candidate Lara Leigh Fish came second with 985 votes.
Agboola said: “This victory belongs to all of us, I extend my hand of fellowship. Politics is ending now, lets all work together and make New Addington great.”
New Addington North currently forms part of the Croydon Central Constituency, and has been Labour dominated since its formation.
The count had a 35.2% turnout, with 2,534 ballot papers issued and 38 ballot papers rejected.
Btw how did the BNP do in your neck of the woods? They didn’t do too well down here.
The country is now under the control of an English Nationalist Party. The BNP, NF, UKIP er al are no longer required as their goals have pretty much been achieved.
They’ve even got gunboats in the channel and an aircraft carrier off the coast of China
Wave that blue passport and rejoice!
This threads gone off on a bit of a tangent, hasn’t it?
Seems like the 'thick as mince' and 'politically naiive' Angela Rayner has just significantly boosted her role and her profile. Whilst it comfirms my criticism of her as a careerist looking after herself, I hope she uses her new found fame and power for good ends, and in particular to push back on any greater involvement of Mandelson in the party. She may well be leader before the next election is called rather than after. One thing's for sure, Starmer has all the authority of a poor mans IDS. A fancy city lawyer being outmanoevred by an ex care-worker. That's got to sting a bit.
Have they said what her new post is then? Health? Education? Foreign affairs? They sound like the posts being reshuffled. Would like to see Nandy take over the Home affairs job, personally, but it doesn’t sound likely.
Yes thank you for that Kelvin but I already knew that the Labour Party had won the New Addington ward by-election, I actually mentioned it, remember?
My point was that the BNP only got 55 votes, in an area they thought they stood a chance. These days the BNP can only afford to be very selective as to where they stand.
Btw I love this very predictable "the Conservative Party is now a far-right neo-nazi racist party" by people desperately attempting to explain something which they clearly don't understand.
They spout nonsense like that and then appear to be completely baffled as why people are no longer listening to them.
No one gives a shit about the BNP… they no longer need to exist, we don’t even have to see them on our ballot papers up here any more. Washed up and washed away. Their voters help bump up the Tory vote instead these days. You getting excited about their inability to draw a crowd any more is just more of your reporting from the past… most of these post of yours on recent pages sounds like they have been delayed by years after you hit send.
So, Rayner is in the Shadow First Secretary of State role… I look forward to her tearing Raab a new one. I hope Johnson gets some nice long holidays soon…
I look forward to her tearing Raab a new one.
Gove you mean. Raab is the foreign secretary, still shadowed by Lisa Nandy who Starmer also wanted to sack but couldn’t because he has no authority. His days are numbered.
No one gives a shit about the BNP… they no longer need to exist
Because no one hates black people anymore?
Or because the Conservative Party is now a neo-nazi racist party just like the BNP?
Gove you mean.
No, I mean Raab. Gove is Cabinet Secretary. Raab stands in as defecto deputy PM if Johnson is missing, that’s why I think it makes sense to make Raynor his opposite number. I’d rather she was shadowing a big department brief, but hey.
Because no one hates black people anymore?
Or because the Conservative Party is now a neo-nazi racist party just like the BNP?
Loving your stupid questions Earnie. When I say loving, I mean bored senseless by your approach.
most of these post of yours on recent pages sounds like they have been delayed by years after you hit send.
Here's an idea Kelvin, if you weren't so quick to hit send perhaps you wouldn't have to edit your posts so extensively.
What’s happening with Thornbury?
Reshuffle fun.
Perhaps with her love of St George’s crosses she’s joined the BNP?
No, I mean Raab. Gove is Cabinet Secretary
You should read the news..
”Rayner emerged with a significantly beefed-up role, handed the shadow chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster role shadowing Michael Gove as well as a newly created post as shadow secretary for the future of work.”
Thanks, I hadn’t read that. So that’s four roles she’ll be in? Busy times ahead…
Moving Dodds to a thinking rather that talking role seems wise.
Loving your stupid questions Earnie. When I say loving, I mean bored senseless by your approach.
Oh it's petty personal insults time because I challenge the echo-chamber's narrative that the British working-class, and the Tory Party, are all neo-nazi racists.
Well I guess it's predictable.
No, I’m just not answering your “because no one hates black people”, “are the Tories neo-Nazis now” bullshit questions. No one said anything of the sort. Tedious.
That’s probably as likely to be down to Karen on Facebook as it is Rupert Murdoch
And where does Karen on Facebook get the idea from?
I'm the the only person who actually thinks Angela Rayner is a bit MILFY??
And where does Karen on Facebook get the idea from?
Louise
No one said anything of the sort. Tedious.
Perhaps you don't remember what you said. Quote :
"There’s no need for the BNP these days"
It is perfectly reasonable to ask why.
The BNP is a neo-nazi racist party whose thugs attracted a very small level of support a while back and even less now.
The claim is constantly be made on here that the British people have recently become more racist in the way they vote. I see no evidence of that.
You say there's no need for the BNP anymore so I ask why.
Obviously you don't want to answer the question, which is fine, but instead of ignoring it you choose petty personal insults as a response.
There’s no need for the BNP these days anyway, the Tories have mopped up their policies and voters now.
Is what I said. If you want things to be harder for immigrants, for whatever reason, then the Tory party promise that. The BNP support dried up well before that though. They have been a spent force for years now. The news is that they even bothered trying to contest a ward, not that just about everyone ignored them. They are gone, an irrelevance, not even a distraction. The BNP fail to make an impact in a local council election isn’t news to anyone living in 2021.
And what’s all this about…
I challenge the echo-chamber’s narrative that the British working-class, and the Tory Party, are all neo-nazi racists.
If there is some kind of consensus that the working class are all neo-Nazis, including my own family, you will be able to quote lots of us making that rediculous claim, won’t you. Back when the BNP were actually being paid any attention, I didn’t even consider many of their voters to be neo-Nazis, even when it turned out key people in the organisation were. I definitely don’t think that all the Tory Party, or anything other than a teeny tiny proportion of its voters are. And I don’t think working class people are any more likely to fall into that kind of hateful ideology than any other class.
Louise
I see, if you can't directly address the argument, just deflect and waffle - how tremendously Johnsonius.
Rachel Reeves said:
'Our economic recovery must be fair. We must transform lives & back businesses in every part of our country. Together we can create the secure jobs & strong infrastructure we need. Everyone deserves a stake in Britain's future.'
This insipid drivel could have been burbled up by anyone from any party. Can't see it firing them up in Batley. Stake and chips maybe.
The Batley by-election should be a Labour shoe-in. They still need to turn up and canvas though. If they keep the metropolitan elite MPs away it will be okay. Thornberry, Starmer et al should stay well away.
No one gives a shit about the BNP… they no longer need to exist, we don’t even have to see them on our ballot papers up here any more. Washed up and washed away. Their voters help bump up the Tory vote instead these days.
I can concur on this. I'd never seen BNP candidates or campaigning till I moved here to their heartland 20 years ago - neighbouring towns featured on Channel 4 documentaries about them, their "Red White and Blue" Festival was just up the road.
Then "we" returned Kilroy Silk as the first UKIP MEP. Now we have a Tory MP and council. The open racists disappeared behind other flags years ago now.
The BNP fail to make an impact in a local council election isn’t news to anyone living in 2021.
Which of course is exactly my point. The last BNP councilor was 3 years ago in 2018 in the North of England.
Yet despite that there are people, including on here, who repeat this ridiculous claim that recent election results proves that the British people have become more racist.
When it's pointed out to them that the openly racist anti-multiculturalism BNP has seen its tiny level of support completely vanish, they counter that by claiming that the Tory Party has replaced the BNP as the new racist anti-immigration anti-multiculturalism party.
And yet the reality is actually the opposite, ie, the level of racism within the Tory Party is probably at the lowest level it has ever been.
Four members of the present Tory Cabinet are BAME MPs, that's 17 percent - a higher percentage than the in the wider population. And twice as much as there has been in all the Labour Cabinets put together.
Which is a very far cry from the days when the Tories won the Smethwick election on the slogan "if you want a **** for a neighbour, vote Labour". Or when Thatcher won a general election on the promise that Britain wouldn't be "swamped" by foreigners.
Yes I am aware that Johnson's journalistic instincts and need to be "amusing" leads him to make comments concerning watermelon smiles and letterboxes, but it doesn't detract from the much wider picture.
I am also acutely aware of the appalling and utterly disgraceful Windrush Scandal. A situation where, perfectly legally and in law, a Pole who came to the UK 6 years ago, for example, can have more legal rights than a Jamaican who came to the UK as a child 60 years ago.
Something which Keir Starmer is scandalously quiet over. The middle-class liberals who are usually so hyper-sensitive over alleged racism (eg watermelon smiles) appear to have very little concern for laws that discriminate in favour of people from white European countries over people from black Caribbean countries.
Are you claiming that Starmer, and the rest of Labour's team, haven't spoken out about windrush and other injustices against people from Caribbean countries? The Tories managed to get a "there is no institutional racism" report published, all while the legal and political battles on behalf of victims of the windrush scandal roll on and on.
geordiemick00
Free Member
I’m the the only person who actually thinks Angela Rayner is a bit MILFY??
Raising the quality of the debate. 🙂 But in answer to your question, yeah, I think you are. Doesn't float my boat (or anything else for that matter) - and that's before she opens her mouth. Both her and Anneliese Dodds are two MPs that don't help the Labour cause at all IMHO. Both difficult to listen to - and not in a challenging, thought provoking way.
Someone from an EU country who applies for "settled status" has more legal rights than someone from the Windrush Generation who applies for "leave to remain in the UK indefinitely".
I only know that because I myself have had to apply for "settled status", not because Starmer hit the headlines over the issue.
I see no reason why as a white European I should have more rights than someone from a black commonwealth country.
All true... but that's UK government policy. Conversely, many people 'from' commonwealth countries have always had rights denied to people from European ones (voting rights for example). The UK government sets immigration policy, and runs the Home Office as it sees fit. The buck stops with the UK administration when it comes to how it deals with people from Commonwealth countries, and how it treats their UK born and bred descendents, it always has. And, back on topic, Starmer and other Labour front benchers have repeatedly criticised the actions taken against these, in most cases, undisputedly British citizens. If the British government treats immigrants and its own citizens so poorly, and there are racist undertones to their policy decisions and the administration of those policies, there's no one making them do so from outside the UK.
Personally I think their influence, particularly in the age of social media and ever diminishing readerships, is hugely over-exaggerated, both by themselves and by those who seek a convenient bogeyman
I always try to base my own opinions on fact, as much as is possible, or at least do my own research by reading different points of view etc. But a statement like this is indicative of just how little many people actually know about the influence on our society, by very powerful wealthy elites. People like Murdoch, and others (many of whom remain almost invisible), have had such a grip on politics since parliament was first formed. It is worth noting that Rupert Murdoch, whilst not even a UK citizen, has far greater access to the British PM, than virtually any other British person.
The average person would be lucky to meet with their local MP once a year, never mind anyone in the upper echelons of government. To say that the influence of the likes of Murdoch and other media barons etc, is 'over exaggerated', is either hopelessly naive, ignorant, stupid, or in denial. Or just simply bullshit. Just a couple of minutes lazy Googling, would have saved the embarrassment of posting such bewildering rubbish.
I know that you like to cast Murdoch et al as evil masterminds manipulating the population, but it’s a chicken and egg situation that you’ve got the wrong way around
No. Either you're just saying that as a wind-up, or it's YOU who have things the wrong way round.
Blair was a very close friend of Rupe's, wasn't he?
The claim is constantly be made on here that the British people have recently become more racist in the way they vote. I see no evidence of that.
Well, Brexit was a pretty good indicator of the level xenophobia in our society, as much of it was driven by racism, pure and simple. But this does open up a whole new debate around whether the UK is 'more racist' now, or whether it's just that such attitudes are more openly voiced, as inherent racism within people and communities, has become emboldened? I think it actually has much more to do with class; as our society becomes fractured into ever smaller subsets of the greater class system, so people are finding themselves increasingly alienated from the identities they once took for granted. What is it to be 'working' or 'middle' class these days? The lines seem increasingly blurred. I see people from very working class backgrounds, proudly announcing those credentials, whilst actually living a much more middle class lifestyle and having middle class 'values' (whatever they are). Seems that the constant glorification of the working classes (as promoted in popular culture, the media etc) leads people to believe it's great to be of a subservient class whose role it is to do the donkey work to generate wealth for others. But as these identities are exposed and challenged, so people are less secure within such and become more defensive, leading to the fear and insecurity which fuels xenophobia. It's always better to have 'others' for hate to be directed towards, rather than scrutiny falling on oneself.
Well, Brexit was a pretty good indicator of the level xenophobia in our society
Not really. It's actually a pretty poor indicator. You can support Brexit without being racist, in the same way that you can support immigration controls without being racist. And you can support remaining being in the EU and be racist. Like the majority of Tory MPs in 2015.
There are much better indicators. For example I find it highly unlikely that anyone who was a committed bigot wouldn't vote for Britain's second highest profile bigot.
So how did Tommy Robinson do when he stood for election in the North West of England 2 years ago? I can't imagine anyone who wasn't a bigot voting for him.
Despite having the level of media coverage that most politicians can only dream of, and standing during a period of allegedly unprecedented bigotry, he only managed to get 2% of the vote, came 8th, and lost his deposit.
A total humiliation. Presumably he only agreed to stand because he believed that bigotry, specially in the North of England, had suddenly become popular.
And to fair to him in most European countries the bigot with the second highest profile can generally expect to have an elected position.
Nick Lowles, the CEO of Hope Not Hate, said the results showed how politically irrelevant the British far right has become in recent years. After the BNP’s collapse in 2010, many supporters were swept up by Ukip and then the Brexit party, he said, while some of the same voters had since switched to the Conservatives.
“With [Boris Johnson’s] pro-Brexit and rightwing populist agenda, which includes strong anti-immigration messaging and deliberate manipulation and hyping of a cultural war, there is currently very little political space for traditional far-right parties obsessed with racial nationalism and Islamophobia,” he said.
“The BNP tapped into political discontent that existed in many white working-class communities, and while these voters were strongly opposed to immigration and a multiracial society, they were also uneasy about the BNP’s more extreme views. When offered slightly more moderate versions of the same … anti-immigrant and nationalist messages, these voters quickly jumped ship.”
Any chance we can get this thread back onto Starmer? Especially as the reshuffle and elections throwing up all sorts of questions and concerns about this leadership and what should happen next. There should be plenty to talk about that's on topic.
Blair was a very close friend of Rupe’s, wasn’t he?
Yes. Is it just coincidence that in living memory for ~70%* of the population only a single person has won a general election for Labour, and that person happened to be godfather to one of Rupert Murdoch's kids?
*Based on ONS population stats, and the assumption that age 8 is the earliest you might have some memory of who the prime minister is.
Yes. Is it just coincidence that in living memory for ~70%* of the population only a single person has won a general election for Labour, and that person happened to be godfather to one of Rupert Murdoch’s kids?
So Starmer needs to be replaced with a mate of Murdoch. Maybe that was the case 24 years ago but does being a friend of Murdoch have as much standing these days with Facebook, Twitter etc,.?
Maybe being friends with Zuckerberg may be more helpful
that employees of Murdoch’s newspapers met with Government Ministers or their advisors a staggering 206 times in the last 2 years. This includes editors and executives working for The Times, Sunday Times and the Sun newspapers.”
So "employees" in that sentence includes reporters for whom meeting with the Govt is their day job. The same as Kuenssburg and Peston (who've probably had just as many meetings)...I agree with you that Murdoch has influence but that headline might be misleading
Rummaging around a in box of ruined toys is the cabinet shuffle.
It will make not a jot of difference.
Rachel Reeves. Ugh. She won't be splashing the cash. She's on the fiscal prudence bullshit side - that will run well in the face of the Tory spend.
Why not just go the whole hog and get Ian Austin back?
Hoping by the end of the year there will be a leadership challenge and be rid of this ineptitude.
Hoping by the end of the year there will be a leadership challenge and be rid of this ineptitude.
And as always be careful what you wish for. Which current Labour MP would you back as leader?
THE big question.
