Andy Burnham has predictably walked it with a massive 67% of the vote.
If Starmer learns anything from that – and he needs to! – it’s that Andy’s popularity went through the roof when he squared up to the government for a fight on behalf of his constituents
Only yesterday you were saying that Jeremy Corbyn had destroyed the Labour Party, and that Thursday's election results proved it.
Today you are saying that Labour can easily, and predictably, win elections if it stands up and fights the Tories on behalf of its voters.
Surely you need to make up your mind which it is binners?
Nandy and Ashworth next apparently. Don’t really like them either but they’ve literally been the only shadow cabinet members doing anything for the past year. He’s gone mental.
https://twitter.com/peston/status/1391132717107003406?s=21
Unless you're Keir Starmer.
foreign governments, not the British government, that owns much of Britain’s railways
I think you may need to update your knowledge.
He’s gone mental.
I’d have kept Raynor, Nandy and Ashworth… all three been taking on the government very well, especially in media interviews, without doing anything that I’ve noticed to make things difficult for Starmer. This could all get very interesting now (and I don’t mean that in a positive way).
Today you are saying that Labour can easily, and predictably, win elections if it stands up and fights the Tories on behalf of its voters.
Can you find me the bit where I said that comrade? I’ve said nothing of the sort. Labour won’t be easily or predictably winning elections any time soon. All I’ve said is that a lot of Andy’s constituents appreciate someone being extremely confrontational with the government on their behalf.
If he sacks Nandy and Ashworth as well as Raynor then he’s completely lost the script. They’re two of the very few Labour MPs that have registered with the public. I gather that means all the anonymous ones who’ve been keeping their heads down are safe? What kind of message does that send out?
Can you find me the bit where I said that comrade? I’ve said nothing of the sort. Labour won’t be easily or predictably winning elections any time soon
Sure. You said :
"Andy Burnham has predictably walked it with a massive 67% of the vote.'
Winning with "a massive 67% of the vote" is clearly an easy win.
And apparently it was predictable, according to you. Because "Andy’s popularity went through the roof when he squared up to the government for a fight on behalf of his constituents"
Yesterday you said that Corbyn, as apparently Thursday's elections showed, had destroyed the Labour Party.
Today you say that Labour can we elections if it follows Burnham's example.
So which one is it?
Btw your use of the term "comrade" whenever you address me is hilarious binners! You and your hysterical sixth form humour..... it never loses its edge or becomes tedious
Yesterday you said that Corbyn, as apparently Thursday’s elections showed, had destroyed the Labour Party.
Today you say that Labour can we elections if it follows Burnham’s example.
So which one is it?
Erm.... both.
Why is there any contradiction in that?
Do you not see that a large percentage of those 2.5 million voters who gave Andy 67% of the vote on Thursday also voted Tory last December
Why?
Hi...
It’s about credibility. Andy has loads, Corbyn had none*.
* cult members excepted
Why is there any contradiction in that?
I see. The Labour Party is destroyed but can win elections. A fascinating analysis of the situation.
You don't hear little pearls of wisdom like that everyday.
There’s not going to be an election for over 3 years
That’s 3 years to try and repair the absolutely huge damage done by Magic Grandad and his disciples.
Andy Burnham is one of the very few Labour politicians doing something right, which started with the very sensible decision of putting a couple of hundred miles between himself and the rolling car crash of the Westminster Labour Party under Corbyn
He wasn’t daft. He saw the writing on the wall and made sure he was nowhere near it as the allotment dweller gift-wrapped Boris his massive majority
That’s political nouse. Not something that’s been apparent in the Labour Party for a long time.
He has done well in Manchester but I thought he was awful when running for leader. Just seemed to speak in cliches and phrases that didn't actually mean anything. Guessing he has changed a lot since then?
As for Starmer, as I keep saying the problem is him not the people he is sacking. He will soon be in a position where he won't have anyone left to sack and then maybe realise he needs to sack himself.
…most of the passenger train companies are now government run.
Yes this is true but at the risk of being accused of being racist it is probably worth pointing out that it is foreign governments, not the British government, that owns much of Britain’s railways.
Call me a bigot but I would rather that it was British taxpayers that benefited rather foreign governments.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trains-uk-railways-renationalise-countries-operators-companies-a9058961.html
That article is very out of date. There will be no private franchised Train Operating Companies within 3 months. All but 2 or 3 of the 20 (I've not kept up with the news for the last month) have been bought out by the Government, or, in reality, have given the key back. They were losing many millions because of covid. Most of them have come to a deal whereby they stay in place and run the network for a fixed fee, any profit, (or loss at the moment) will be taken by the Government. It is all ran by the Dept. For Transport.
The only 'private' companies running trains in the UK will be the freight operators, the 'open access' operators, such as Hull Trains and Grand Central, and the tour/excursion operators. All timetabled day to day services are now, or soon to be, UK Government run.
The electorate and membership have already made their preferences known over Starmer and the flagging Labour Party. Much more of that and he'll be knifed by his own praetorian guard, I'm sure the sponsors are thinking about his successor already. Not sure if Glasto will be a good idea but people do have short memories there.
It will be interesting to see an ethnic breakdown of the vote as he may well be losing it with significant numbers of what were traditional LP voters. Palestine in the news puts him on the spot a bit, what can he say? It's not clear whether the LP is just imploding or whether it's part of the plan for a slimmed down cadre of hand-picked, well paid, well funded, well coiffed, well connected, (fat)cat friendly, polished media players. Might be both.
Burnham stood up to the government, highlighted the failure in its joined up thinking about lockdown and fought very coherently and publicly to get a better deal in order for the lockdown plan to work better.
Starmer, well I don't know - publicly called for the October lockdown, which I thought showed pragmatic sense and leadership, and then went quiet.
Maybe its a media thing, whipping up the Burnham v Boris thing to get headlines, but I know which one feels like he'd have the balls to take on the Tories.
Looks like Starmer saw bill’s post about the ferret 😳
https://twitter.com/nickcymru/status/1391141738518093831?s=21
Beat Boj at his own game! I wonder if he shagged her on the sofa while his Mrs was sleeping?
That article is very out of date.
Yup Alani, you are absolutely right. I was basing my comment on pre-pandemic stuff like this :
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/reanimating-the-corpse25220/
But this RMT press release shows how much things have changed.
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-demands-that-government-crack-on-with-rail-nationalisation/
On reflection you actually make a good wider point. The pandemic has turned things upside down.
The thing about Johnson is that he actually isn't really a politician. He's really more of an attention-seeking clown who uses politics as a vehicle for his act.
At the very least he isn't a conviction politician in the way Thatcher was. That's probably part of his wider public appeal. And of course it doesn't chain him to idealogy.
As a consequence he free to go with the flow. Despite the UK being tied to Europe for many decades it was only a few weeks before the referendum that he decided to come out on favour of Brexit. He publicly contradicted Thatcher when he came out of hospital and declared that there was such a thing as society.
And he made the Tories appear more leftwing on taxation than Labour when he wrong footed them on corporation tax.
Much of the Tory gains last Thursday were made on the back of promises of government intervention and investment.
Time will tell how much will be delivered but all the while Labour has attempted to appear more and more right wing. Or centrist as they prefer to say.
Andy Burnham is one of the very few Labour politicians doing something right
doqwhistle racism?
No trace of that Tim Shipman tweet on his timeline - may well be faked.
Regardless of the shagging part the tale of Jenny Chapman is pretty telling anyway - lose your seat then get given a peerage so you can stay in parliament anyway.
Then the person who lost the red wall seat is now advising on how to win a red wall seat, by getting in a remain supporting doctor in a staunchly leave voting area, who helped shut down a hospital.
It's all pretty dire stuff isn't it.
There’s not going to be an election for over 3 years
That’s 3 years to try and repair the absolutely huge damage done by Magic Grandad and his disciples.
So basically binners you've changed your mind.
You've gone from saying that Corbyn has destroyed the Labour Party to now saying that he's damaged the Labour Party.
The Deborah Mattison appointment, as much as I like her, is a stark indicator of where Starmer wants to head and that is trying to appease 'red wall' when this week's results suggest the way to go is to court the shires
Bad move for Starmer, alongside the crap reshuffle
If the Tories are now the party of the social and cultural right wing* then let them have it
*Euphemism for something
All national leaders and those like Burnham that were prominent in their 'defense' against covid
Have had a big post covid bounce
Johnson was lucky in many ways his leveling up agenda is the perfect post covid regeneration plan & it was already established in voters minds
Labours mistake was not to be pushing their own
You’ve gone from saying that Corbyn has destroyed the Labour Party to now saying that he’s damaged the Labour Party.
What’s your point, caller?
To go all Rumsfeld here, the known known is that Grandad has done an enormous amount of damage to the party, losing many many seats that had been Labour since dinosaurs roamed the earth.
The unknown unknown is whether it’s repairable or not, by anyone.
Not looking good, is it?
It’s about credibility. Andy has loads, Corbyn had none.
Credibility is what the media delivers, and Corbyn was demolished by the media (even what's left of the left wing media) by people who were afraid of repeating Michael Foot's performance. This happened, but because the media created it. That's why Corbyn was more popular at rallies (first time round) because people could listen to him directly rather than through the media filter.
Burhamn is experiencing similar. The national media doesn't give much of a toss about what happens in the Manchester mayoral race so he could speak his mind and gain popularity.
The biggest problem Labour have, I reckon, is their media management.
And anyone trying to fix that will be called a traitor. Well, we don’t even need to predict that… look what happened when Starmer wrote a piece for the Mail on Sunday on schools during the pandemic. And that’s just a toe in the water compared to what Blair and Campbell did.
The biggest problem Labour have, I reckon, is their media management.
The biggest problem labour have is the interests of their voters and supporters are directly the opposite of the interests of billionaire newspaper owners and the media establishment which feeds off them. You can't fix that by 'management'.
And anyone trying to fix that will be called a traitor.
See above. You can fix it if you completely water down your policies so that the tory supporting billionaire media moguls don't feel threatened. That's the only thing they will respond to. Is that what you're suggesting? And in any case, Starmer has tried that, he went as far as having no policies at all and presenting himself as an uncontroversial establishment man. How's that going?
I know that you like to cast Murdoch et al as evil masterminds manipulating the population, but it’s a chicken and egg situation that you’ve got the wrong way around
They have to be pragmatic enough to reflect the opinions of their readership.
They backed Blair in 97 not because of some shadowy pact signed in blood in a darkened room, but because they knew he was going to win. Just as they knew that Corbyn was hugely mistrusted by their readership and had no chance of winning.
It’s as simple as that
They backed Blair in 97 not because of some shadowy pact signed in blood in a darkened room, but because they knew he was going to win
They back who they believe works for their best interests.
Crush the Saboteurs.
They're about influence.
Personally I think their influence, particularly in the age of social media and ever diminishing readerships, is hugely over-exaggerated, both by themselves and by those who seek a convenient bogeyman
Some results are really interesting. Labour winning in Chipping Norton, and running close at Worthing. These places historically are solid Blue. Young folk and professionals priced out of Oxford, moving out to Chipping Norton, same story on the south coast, priced out of London and Brighton, moving into Worthing. Both these places were "God's waiting room" types; Old, Monied, Tory...Not true anymore; Blue wall seats around cities in the South East of England becoming marginal...
England's politics are becoming Topsy-Turvey...
Equally fascinating, is hearing a Tory councillours worried that Tory spending priorities away from home counties heartlands are being interpreted by voters in S/E as "We're spending money elsewhere" and thinking "I'm not so sure" (about voting Tory) Quote from Dan Humphries at Worthing council, worried about Tory focus, and Labour running them close
Balls forgot...
The Supermayorial elections, Labour have won: Bristol, Cambs &Peterbrough, Doncaster, Liverpool regional, and Liverpool, Manchester, Tyneside, Salford, West England and West Midlands. and look to win West Yorkshire.
Just as they knew that Corbyn was hugely mistrusted by their readership and had no chance of winning.
Could have been quite different if they'd come.out and backed him.
and look to win West Yorkshire
When can I uncross all my fingers?
What’s your point, caller?
Er, you can't figure it out? Even a sixth form student should be able to figure it out, but I'll spell it out to you anyway binners.
'Destroy" and "damage" are two different words with two different meanings.
You can't seem to decide what Corbyn, according to you, has done.
One day you claim that Corbyn has destroyed the Labour Party, and then the next day you claim that he's only damaged it.
Of course you and me both know that your forensic "analysis" of the situation depends on what narrative you want to follow.
EG. Bad result such Hartlepool = Corbyn destroyed the Labour Party, and you always said he would.
Excellent result such as Manchester's mayoral election = Corbyn only damaged the Labour Party and with the correct tactics you can, predictably apparently, expect Labour victory.
I have to say binners, your vacillating posts on here have all the hallmarks of a professional politician.
And quite frankly it wouldn't entirely surprise me if I was to discover that you were in fact a front bench politician with too much time on their hands.
Equally fascinating, is hearing a Tory councillours worried that Tory spending priorities away from home counties heartlands are being interpreted by voters in S/E as “We’re spending money elsewhere” and thinking “I’m not so sure” (about voting Tory) Quote from Dan Humphries at Worthing council, worried about Tory focus, and Labour running them close
I totally see your point. I thought the way the tories treated the north throughout lockdown would see them coming back to labour in massive numbers. Im being pessimistic, but I honestly feel like the money going elsewhere wont matter come a GE - Boris could punch electorates square in the face and they would still vote for him.
Just as they knew that Corbyn was hugely mistrusted by their readership and had no chance of winning.
And how, exactly, did the readership know to mistrust him? Without, ohhh, being fed certain stories?
That you dont think the media does have a rather significant impact is a tad odd.
Labour has lost control of Bristol City Council, now NOC. The Greens are the joint largest party.
Did the Green Party get the mayor as well? Or did Labour win that? Must be nice to be in an area where the battle is now between those two parties. It doesn’t tell us much about how to win in areas where it’s a Labour vs Conservative battle though, does it.
Labour Mayor. Greens came second.
I said on this thread that Labour might lose votes to the Greens in middle class urban areas, but it was a wider spread than that in Bristol. It seems to me that Starmer's current course is haemorrhaging votes across the board.
More Green councillors is good in my book. As long as those votes come back at a General Election rather than split the vote and let the Conservatives keep ruling on and on. That’s the big dilemma.
Personally I think their influence, particularly in the age of social media and ever diminishing readerships, is hugely over-exaggerated, both by themselves and by those who seek a convenient bogeyman
I watched a video of a monkey-hanger today saying he's had enough of voting Labour because of hospital, police and court cuts. That "convenient bogeyman" just gifted the Tories another seat in a deprived area with mass unemployment.
That’s probably as likely to be down to Karen on Facebook as it is Rupert Murdoch
I have to say binners, your vacillating posts on here have all the hallmarks of a professional politician.
And quite frankly it wouldn’t entirely surprise me if I was to discover that you were in fact a front bench politician with too much time on their hands.
Mate... the reality is going to be so disappointing. You know I’m just a gobby northern bell-end who colours things in for a living?
