Boris needs all his props for the act to work. The smartarse blustering you can get away with a hoard of braying ruddy-faced backbencher begins you, but not in this environment
It’s like a courtroom. Which suits Starmer perfectly. Boris best get used to it. There are going to be a lot of courtrooms and committee rooms in the near future. It ruthlessly exposes him for the bumbling chancer that he is, while Starmer will feel perfectly at home, like he did today.
It's a mystery to me why people here are so invested in relative performances at PMQs. Is there any evidence at all to suggest that it is related to subsequent election victories?
Casting my mind back, William Hague was an excellent public speaker who frequently wiped the floor with Blair. Didn't seem to do him much good.
I enjoyed that performance, what with Boris constantly fidgeting and looking over his shoulder for a support that was no longer there. The 'Silence in Court' suited Starmer well.
Not getting to excited though, he's got to be able to sell it to the public, and as yet I'm not sure what message Labour are trying to sell. We're going through the biggest existential threat of our lifetimes and until now Labour has remained silent......Not a peep.
Starmers questions were incisive when they should have been excoriating. Plays well to the Newsnight crowd but I can't see it grabbing many headlines beyond that. Maybe he should have called Boris a murdering ****, that would have grabbed a few headlines, though Boris could have responded that Labour's said shit all about it until now.
We’re going through the biggest existential threat of our lifetimes and until now Labour has remained silent……Not a peep.
It's a tightrope. If they go aggressive against the Government, then that will be used against them. The Tories propaganda to hide how bad they are dong things, is working. Clap the NHS, Capt (Sir) Tom, are all being manipulated to generate the "Dunkirk Spirit", so that any criticism of Boris and his team of ****s will be deflected as political games when we should "all be pulling together".
We’re going through the biggest existential threat of our lifetimes and until now Labour has remained silent……Not a peep
I don't think anyone is expecting the usual party politics stuff at the moment.
I’m not sure what message Labour are trying to sell.
Simple, it's 'Don't worry, you can trust us keep things pretty much the same, but we'll all feel much better about it'. Given how great we've become at national virtue signalling by clapping and raising small amounts of money for the NHS, he may be on to something 🙂
I’m not sure what message Labour are trying to sell.
You're not supposed to be. That narrative will be developed in the run up to the next election. Labour would be foolish in the extreme to nail their colours to the mast while the situation is still evolving.
Now they might call it wrong, with hindsight they will call it spot on and their message can be tailored to the public mood at the time.
Surprising then that Starmer is so keen to suppress the findings of the report on AS.
Not really.
It's a badly done hatchet job that will see the Labour party taken to court. At least 30 Labour staffers have taken advice on some of the legal implications of Formby's homework.
Good job they now have a lawyer in charge, they are going need some legal representation.
That ‘report’ that has the sixth form getting their petticoats well and truly ruffled (while eliciting a collective shrug from everybody else) is indeed a hatchet job.
A vindictive collection of gossip, hearsay and outright lies, which Starmer, quite sensibly (and unsurprisingly given his legal background) isn’t touching with a barge pole.
It’s Sadaam setting fire to the oil wells as he fled Kuwait.Or was meant to be. But carried out with the trademark Corbynite hapless incompetence, it is obviously nothing of the sort.
There are now so many legal cases being prepared for slander and libel that it’s reckoned it could bankrupt the party.
Personally I’d like to see the people who concocted the steaming pile of vindictive horse-shot held personally liable for it. And given that it has never actually been published by the Labour Party, merely leaked by the people who wrote it as an act of sabotage, I don’t see why that shouldn't happen.
That’d certainly be a fitting end to their hopeless ‘careers’
There are now so many legal cases being prepared for slander and libel that it’s reckoned it could bankrupt the party.
Don't forget the GDPR breach cases as well.
I was going to post a long slam about Starmer for being too supportive of the government in multiple areas that they have and are failing as regards the current health crisis… and for being dull even where he is asking pertinent questions… but then I went on twitter… and don’t want to be on the side of those flooding it with charges of defending and supporting pedophiles… sadly from people on the left as well as the normal far right knuckle draggers. Social media just gets more and more rank.
I may become a Starmer cheerleader, just because of who seems to want him to fail.
“It’s a mystery to me why people here are so invested in relative performances at PMQs. Is there any evidence at all to suggest that it is related to subsequent election victories?“
I think a strong PMQs performance is more important for that back benchers, rather than the population as a whole. If KS is putting it into BJ for month on end the 1922 committee will start to make noises.
I for one am very much looking forward to Johnson being shown for what he is - a clueless chancer.
Sadly, until the RW media turn on the government, it will all be for nothing, as this mornings headlines have shown - no reference of the UK now having the worst death rate in Europe
RW media turning on the government you say?
Print headline in the Telegraph print edition;
"Starmer: We owe it to VE Day generation to protect them from virus in care homes."
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1258498637228912642
looks like the government has overplayed it's hand with with regards floating things in the press.
The end of lockdown fiasco has left some editors looking like fools and they're starting to bite back.
Yesterday’s headlines have got Dominic Cummings, our de facto prime ministers fingerprints all over them. Hasn’t everything nowadays?
No announcement, just a convenient leak. But you’re right... when not much changes on Sunday the press are going to be left looking like suckers. Hopefully this could mark the point where the governments easy ride ends and politics can resume. They’ve literally been getting away with murder.
Starmer still needs to be pretty cautious but the mood might change significantly on Sunday when it becomes obvious they’re being taken for fools.
Boris has gone AWOL again as he always does, leaving his human shields to dispense bad news. Surely even Matt Handjob is sick of being pushed in front of the cameras to be the fall guy by now?
What are the chances Boris will actually show up on Sunday?
He will turn up Sunday, but he is nicely trapped now, between the public who generally don't want lockdown lifting much and his own mp's who are starting to shout about getting Britain back to work
he is screwed either way, but sadly so could we be
he is screwed either way, but sadly so could we be
Remind me who Dumbojo’s successor will be.....
We are screwed and then ****ed.
It’s an interesting one, which explains why he’s been invisible.
The MPs demanding a lifting of the lockdown are all the ERG Brexiteer headbangers who make up his core support and who have been calling the shots for the last 3 years.
He’s ‘their’ man. He’s always done their bidding
But this time what they want is the opposite of what the vast majority of the electorate want.
It’s going to be interesting to see what an opportunist coward like Johnson is going to do. He can’t bluster his way out of this. Carry on hiding, probably
Labour have no need to 'sell' anything to anyone at present.
It's clear that Starmer has a very focussed approach at PMQs; the start of holding the gov to account - in the recent one, using johnson's own words against him is very much what you expect of a QC.
At present they are doing the right thing by being generally supportive of the gov.
IMO Starmer's questioning led directly to johnson, typically, wanting to say something positive so he rashly committed (hancock) to delivering 200k tests a day by end of month and promising a statement about a roadmap out of lockdown on Sunday.
Interesting that his recent discussion with the devolved leaders is the only such discussion since he returned to 'work'.
Surely, he should be in daily contact.
Telegraph's headline up there^^^ is telling - as is Piers Morgan's continued criticism of johnson and gov generally.
I think we’re witnessing what inevitably happens when you allow a lunatic like Cummings to freelance government policy.
They’ve viewed this as a PR exercise from day one and now it’s all falling apart.
Starmer is doing the sensible thing and just giving them enough rope.
It’s just a shame thousands of people have to die to prove how unfit to govern this shower are, but they’re presently doing his job for him, so he’s happy to let them get on with it
we owe it to VE Day generation to protect them from virus in care homes
I have no idea if this approach will work for Labour… but imagine how annoyed Johnson is today? That’s good enough for me. Nicely played. Show the PM up for what he is… all fluffy speeches and lacking in any diligence and action.
And in the torygraph too, must have felt like a stab in the back which is an amazing level of delicious irony
Delicious is the word.
But Twitter still a wash with ‘people’ claiming that he’s a Tory for getting a Telegraph front page (or undemocratic for challenging the PM, depending on which camp they are attacking him from).
Dicks will be dicks i guess.
just glad it is him holding the government to account now, if it were the old one i dread to think
Dicks get to vote though.
I’m still in the “wish he was PM, but he doesn’t have what it takes to win an election” camp… but that front page is… well… surprising… maybe even perfect. Hmm… green shoots…
That's what I am taking from it, got a while to wait but am hopeful
I was very disappointed with Starmers first appearance as leader, when he blathered on about exit strategies. However, since then he's been rather good. That headline is back of the net stuff, the words are brilliant, so econocomical and so precise.
Whilst others have pointed out that the best strategy for the Labour party is to keep their powder dry, there's still a part of me that feels someone from the opposition should have shouted "FIRE" much earlier, not out of political expedience but out of concern for the nations wellbeing. Had the government been held to account earlier the death toll, disruption and general chaos could have been lessened.
There’s no point.
This isn’t a cabinet government where people have input. They’re listening to nobody. This is a PR exercise. It’s Dominic Cummings dictating terms while a bunch of nodding dogs are pushed in front of the cameras to deliver it.
Starmer is bright enough to let them get on with it, as he can’t influence anything. He knows that his time will come to take them apart further down the line for this almighty cluster****. They own this. And I can’t think of many better people to hold them to account for it.
Just thank god we haven’t still got that beardy Marxist idiot delivering his 10 second shouty thing for Twitter
I can't think of anybody better to do it to be honest. Boris's suite of oratory tricks has finaly met its match. He's looks like he's getting a dressing down from the deputy head master,
I wondered wether performing well in parliament would make much difference to the bigger picture, though it seemed to knock Boris out of his stride sufficiently to get him making up promises on the spot, that led to all the lockdown ending excitement that ended up putting a rift between some of the RW press and the Dom and Bo Jo show.
Looking forward to the next episode of Crown Court.
Sorry, I meant PMQ's
Looking forward to the next episode of Crown Court.
This.
The moment when he briefly held up the graph before pointing out the hypocrisy in Boris' response was pure daytime TV gold.
I think we might finally (thankfully) have a grown up back in front line UK politics again...
In the Zip household he certainly has secured 2 votes from the Libs and I’m a party member.
How would you vote now?
I think we might finally (thankfully) have a grown up back in front line UK politics again
Yep, he was always going to be good at phrasing questions, making well though out statements and so on but does that matter to most of the voters?
Those voters who are outside clapping the NHS but happily voted in a Tory government, you can see thinking is not their strong point...
@kerley
I voted Tory at the last elections and proudly clap the NHS on a Thursday, a decision (voting Tory) that I thought long and hard about. Generally speaking there was not a chance of me voting for a Labour government with Corbyn and crew leading the party, as I opposed their dealing of the Brexit situation, and plans to nationalise industries like rail and postal services. I am very pleased that the Labour Party has a new leader, as the country needs a strong opposition to challenge the incumbent government. Starmer and Labour now gives the country a realistic alternative to the Tories at future ballot box’s.
Btw, why do you have to make personal digs at folks who vote differently to you? People with different personal situations and backgrounds have alternative views to you, why can’t you understand that?
plans to nationalise industries like rail and postal services
Odd examples. A lot of people who vote Tory think those two should be back in the public sector fully, or more than currently. Probably Labour’s most popular policy with non-Labour voters. The wider public ownership policies might be reduced, or even dumped, but I’d be surprised if more public ownership of rail and the Post Office are dropped… they may be dressed up differently, but intervention in both will surly remain party policy (and for rail may even be Tory policy in four years time).
I voted Tory at the last elections and proudly clap the NHS on a Thursday,
Voting in an election is not a consequence free expression of your opinion, it's a conscious action which tells those in power how you want the country to be governed. By voting tory you clearly signalled your support for the running down and commercialisation of the NHS which has directly resulted in doctors and nurses not having the PPE they need and the resultant preventable deaths. So think about that next time you stand on your doorstep and applaud the people who back in December you didn't give a shit about. The emotion you should be feeling at that point is one of shame, not pride.
@kelvin
Odd to you maybe, but not to others. Several family members and work colleagues have similar views of state run services, some Labour and some Tories.
Odd to you maybe, but not to others.
I’m not talking anecdotes, or even my preferred policy, just stating the fact that increasing public ownership of rail (much of it already is publicly owned) is one of Labour’s most popular policies… with support well beyond its voter base… I would be surprised/confused if it was dropped under the new leader in an effort to broaden the appeal for the party…
https://fullfact.org/economy/do-public-want-railways-renationalised/
The Post Office nationalisation issue isn’t as clear cut, but it is popular with older Tory voters.
Anyway… beyond the people you know Frank…
Increased public ownership more generally is unpopular, but the Rail and Post Office are clear exceptions, which is why I was surprised to see them as examples. Expect Labour policy in future to reflect that… proposing more public ownership in areas the public support (low hanging fruit) and leaving any other proposals ‘till they’ve proven they can deliver on those areas before any suggestion of something with wider reach.
The emotion you should be feeling at that point is one of shame, not pride.
100% this - is there an element of "Tory voters clap for carers to assuage their own guilt?" I think a number of my family voted Tory - at this point I'd rather not know, but they all clap for carers and if they DID vote blue, the hypocrisy would piss me off.
@dazh Yes I’m aware of why elections are conducted, and as I didn’t want Corbyn in power I voted against him. Would I vote for Labour in the future? Definitely , if I had confidence in their leader and shadow cabinet to improve the running of the country. Sorry I won’t get sucked into the worldwide PPE shortage debate.
@Frankers it's not a debate about shortages but about a lack of preparation and planning as highlighted by the Cygnus Exercise the full report text is in the article.
Worldwide PPE shortage has nothing to do with Tory policy towards the NHS so stop looking for sticking plasters for cuts by a thousand knives.
I'm not going to list the shower of shite rained down on the service over the decades by their myopic ideology served up by successive health ministers determined to cut spending and flog services to their puppet masters.
Not liking Jeremy Corbyn is a good reason to not vote labour but voting blue is a wholly different thing entirely, either spoil your ballot paper or vote for other parties. Giving this group of arseholes a mandate is just downright stupid.
I've posted here before that there's a difference between winning an argument in parliament and winning over the public.
What I hadn't factored in was that we could have a leader of the opposition who is so precise in this questioning that he wrong foots his opponent and causes him to flounder, making promises on the hoof that he wishes he hadn't.
Starmer's performance in PMQ's had immediate outcomes, it ended up disrupting the tories relationship with Fleet Street, ruining Cummings plans for Victory over Euope day and It ended up landing him the most positive Daily Telegraph front page I can ever recall for a Labour leader.
One thing about the PPE shortage, apart from all the issues of procurement, is that our usage is very high for the exact same reason that our death toll is really high- the late lockdown that caused the virus to spread so much further, creating many more patients and accordingly much more consumption of PPE. Everything's connected.
What I hadn’t factored in was that we could have a leader of the opposition who is so precise in this questioning that he wrong foots his opponent and causes him to flounder, making promises on the hoof that he wishes he hadn’t.
It’s now a Lawyer with experience of representing the underdog against wealthy big business (McD’s) v’s a raffish oaf who’s only skills are being able to order a case of claret and a pigs head for a bullingdon club shindig.
Worldwide PPE shortage has nothing to do with Tory policy towards the NHS so stop looking for sticking plasters for cuts by a thousand knives.
The NHS shortage of PPE is entirely the fault of the Conservative government.
I don't see the need for all the insults aimed at frankers. Respecting others choices isn't always easy but if we don't then we become the thing we hate. Some pretty offensive remarks from those that claim to be superior to the implied stw stereotype of a Tory voter. Bigotry isn't a good look.
Back on topic, I'm not seeing anything to get optimistic about with starmer yet, its a political period where personality appears to be key. I'm really not seeing any sort of passion to win people over, being sensible might not be enough however long he has.
