[Closed] Scottish independence- where do you stand?

konabunny - Member
Yes. I think you might be confusing Alex Salmond with Voldemort.

Priceless 🙂

Anyone see the SNP broadcast on Channel 4 last night.

Seemed to state "facts" that are still being debated?

In particular iScotland will be a member of the EU because they are now as part of the UK. I thought they had to apply after Independence?

Also, they will keep a monetary union with the UK and use the pound. I thought that was still up for debate?

That's SNP policy perhaps - it doesn't mean that will automatically happen after independence. It'll be up to the Scottish government of the time to determine and negotiate.

Geez, the whole white paper is a wish list / theoretical political manifesto.

Yes. But it has been produced by politicians. And should be treated with disdain because of that.

Nobody should base their vote on what a politician promises. Look at at WILL happen, consider the alternative and then decide.

If Westminster scoured clean the House of Lords, and replaced it with a publicly elected system. Or a worthy unicameral system I might even change my vote. Doesn't seem likely though.

That's SNP policy perhaps - it doesn't mean that will automatically happen after independence

That isn't how it was presented on the TV. These points were dismissed as scare mongering by the No campaign and they were going to happen.

This debate seems to have taken an entertaining leap into fantasy land.

I for one welcome Salmond as our new dark overlord.

Could we perhaps seize Trident for Scotland's own use and strike out on world domination?

Axis of Evil has a lovely ring to it

Axis of Pure Dead Brilliant. Emphasis on the Dead, and the racially Pure.

richmtb - Member
This debate seems to have taken an entertaining leap into fantasy land.

I for one welcome Salmond as our new dark overlord.

Could we perhaps seize Trident for Scotland's own use and strike out on world domination?

Axis of Evil has a lovely ring to it

The Alex of Evil sounds better I reckon! 🙂

I for one welcome Salmond as our new dark overlord.

Could we perhaps seize Trident for Scotland's own use and strike out on world domination?

They'll carve his face into the cliffs under Edinburgh Castle in the Dr Evil stylee

[img] [/img]

First mission of Salmond's Legion of Doom would be to seize the strategic resources Scotland needs.

The Delonghi factory in Italy had better be on high alert

The first act after independence will be to erect an electrified fence and create a no man's land at the border.

Not to keep out the English who will continue to be welcome here, its purpose will be to prevent the return of all the Orange Order Rangers supporters who will not accept Scottish citizenship and have fled to England expecting a rapturous reception.

Unfortunately for them they will be treated as unwanted illegal immigrants and sent back North, but baulked by the fence which will be guarded by Lord Voldemort's most catholic Dementors, they will wander back and forth in no-mans land chanting their unholy liturgies.

As opposed to all those Celtic supporters who could be rounded up and shipped back to Ireland? Quite frankly Scotland would be a nice place without either old firm club existing. Would help improve the p*sh quality of Scottish football as well.

The first act after independence will be to erect an electrified fence and create a no man's land around the Borders. As they keep voting Tory and are not to be trusted.

dragon - Member
As opposed to all those Celtic supporters who could be rounded up and shipped back to Ireland? ...

We'd need them to train as Dementors...

Or perhaps we could put them on the other side of the fence too, and chuck a football between the 2 groups.

Fully agree about how much better this place would be without either group. 🙂

Piemonster - we need Tories, just a few.

Very few people believe in religion these days, so you can't frighten the children with Old Nick any more, but a blue blooded Tory* should terrify any sensitive child.

*except Uncle Boris

I see the pure dead brilliant card has finally been plaid. It's disappointing. ..if you're thinking about playing it I must say Gonnae no dae that or else We'll set aboot ye!

I wish I had not made the Russia link as it took attention from the salient point of former SNP Deputy Leader Jim Sillars in describing his own party as "intellectually dumb" and "totalitarian". I notice no replies on that yet. I attempted in my previous post to be more conciliatory whilst seeking a positive response from a positive campaign. Again no replies on that. Subsequent responses I feel make you look more foolish in the eyes of the observer than me.

[quote=athgray ]I wish I had not made the Russia link as it took attention from the salient point of [b]former [/b]SNP Deputy Leader Jim Sillars There's a clue in there somewhere......

Subsequent responses I feel make you look more foolish in the eyes of the observer than me.

Piemonster - we need Tories, just a few.

I refuse to believe this 😀

We don't need Tories when we have the Labour Party.

I can see I am making no leeway. Will bow out for now I think, before I become overcome by scotroutes limited understanding of the nature of totalitarianism, his lack of sense of irony, and a general inability by nationalists to say anything positive about the UK at all.

athgray - Member
I can see I am making no leeway. Will bow out for now I think, before I become overcome by scotroutes limited understanding of the nature of totalitarianism, his lack of sense of irony, and a general inability by nationalists to say anything positive about the UK at all.

Probably a good idea.

In the meantime try to work out the difference between support for the issue of independence and support for the SNP.

The No campaign hasn't worked this out yet either, but it would be nice to see them come up with some actual benefits of staying in the Union other than we'll bash you up if you leave.

So far we have been threatened with all sorts of nasties right up to preventative bombing - who wants to be a partner in that sort of union?

Athgray you seem to be surprised that a party within touching distance of achieving the policy which is its very core policy,is able to maintain a tight party line.
When you first likened Salmond to Putin in this thread you made no mention of personalities so its not surprising I thought you were talking about policies. You have compared Salmond and Putin on other threads too again with no mention of personalities. I believe that Jim Sillars and Alex Salmond worked closely together at the end of the 80s or early 90s but both were ambitious and only one could be the leader of the SNP. Salmon won and despite this bitter personal disappointment Jim Sillars is a supporter of independence to this day. There are many great things about life in the UK for example it is a democracy unlike Russia but these good things about life in the UK areasnot necessarily a product of the union andI think you really meant you wanted to hear nationalists say there were good things about unionism.

Athgray says he regrets comparing Salmond to Putin and then says

scotroutes limited understanding of the nature of totalitarianism, his lack of sense of irony

The Jim Sillars totalitarian thing is a dead end. We all know the SNP is an intellectually underdeveloped single issue party and that Salmond is the core and the main reason for its success. We know that Sillars is on the outside and is upset. The fact that the party is a one man show doesn't mean that Salmond will become some kind of Tunnocks-munching autocrat. It's just nonsense, not least because the SNP would probably fracture once its raison d'être had disappeared.

So long as Sillars isn't the new Kimmage.

Not that it matters. As your not voting for Salmond.

konabunny - Member
...It's just nonsense, not least because the SNP would probably fracture once its raison d'être had disappeared.

That's what I expect to happen.

However many independence supporters feel the major parties they previously have voted for have been tarnished by their contemptuous dirty tricks campaigns and it may take some time for them to regain their usual support. Their current leaderships are seen as anti-Scottish.

(That's IMO of course.)

Yeah but that is now, and the first post-independence elections are a long way away. By the time they roll around, some existing parties will reconstitute as Scottish only parties, some new parties will emerge, and some will disappear or amalgamate with new parties (Tories?), and all of them will be able to blame anything that's gone wrong on the SNP. There's no reason to assume Salmond would even get the top job in an independent Scotland.

epicyclo - Member
dragon - Member
As opposed to all those Celtic supporters who could be rounded up and shipped back to Ireland? ...
We'd need them to train as Dementors...

Or perhaps we could put them on the other side of the fence too, and chuck a football between the 2 groups.

Fully agree about how much better this place would be without either group.

seosamh77 - Member
Scotland, the land of the diddy club. Sounds magic! Maybe there will be an attempt at a removal of the large chip from your collective shoulders!

Definition of a well-balanced Scot - a man with a chip on both shoulders... 🙂

Good riddance.

Troll score 1.75/10

Nice and abrupt though, I'll give you that. But hardly original.

Ranting is a much underused technique. It's far more amusing.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/u/u/new-indyref-poll-yes-27-no-56-dont-know-17.1385899472
Actually, this is just the Sunday Wail poll already posted.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/02-12-2013/should-scotland-be-an-independant-country

The MSE one is interesting, as I ties in with my stereotype of 'on average' who would vote yes and who would vote no.

That said, MSE felt the need to post this

Note: We have detected unusual voting patterns on the 'I live in Scotland' vote – inc a disproportionate number of Scottish voters (even taking into account the topic). Its likely there’ve been email/social media campaigns to drum up voters. So the result may be far from representative.

Ummm,......

Another example of not only why we need independence, but why the Westminster system is broken:

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8428-fury-after-unelected-peers-strip-power-from-scotland

The House of Lords, an unelected body, passed an amendment to strip powers from the Scottish Parliament, without consulting the Scottish government.

Anyone still think a No vote would lead to greater devolution?

SD-253

- Member
Good riddance.

POSTED 1 DAY AGO #
piemonster - Member
Troll score 1.75/10

Nice and abrupt though, I'll give you that. But hardly original

As one jock said to me "I would never buy an English man a drink" obviously after I had bought him one. Also "I would never give a English man a job" he was working for an English firm in Lincolnshire. Murray's xenophobic remarks says it all. GOOD RIDDANCE

And the sooner the better.
For those who don't quite comprehended what xenophobic means. We will give you a free University education as long as your not a English.

As one jock said to me "I would never buy an English man a drink" obviously after I had bought him one...

...and called him a jock?

For those who don't quite comprehended what xenophobic means. We will give you a free University education as long as your not a English.

I'm guessing that wasn't the only reason you failed to get a place 😀

The other day I saw a Scottish flag flying in a garden in Lincolnshire, what would happen if you flew an english flag in Scotland? How long would it be before they torched your house?

We will give you a free University education as long as your not a English.

The other day I saw a Scottish flag flying in a garden in Lincolnshire, what would happen if you flew an english flag in Scotland? How long would it be before they torched your house?

Some brave souls do sometimes put up english flags:

[img] [/img]

GrahamS - Member

For those who don't quite comprehended what xenophobic means. We will give you a free University education as long as your not a English.
I'm guessing that wasn't the only reason you failed to get a place

5thElefant - Member
The other day I saw a Scottish flag flying in a garden in Lincolnshire, what would happen if you flew an english flag in Scotland? How long would it be before they torched your house?

Are you confusing Scotland with Afghanistan

We will give you a free University education as long as your not a English.

You can get this if your English. Its about where you live, not your nationality.

SD-253 - Member
5thElefant - Member
The other day I saw a Scottish flag flying in a garden in Lincolnshire, what would happen if you flew an english flag in Scotland? How long would it be before they torched your house?
Are you confusing Scotland with Afghanistan

don't think so

SD-253 - Member

For those who don't quite comprehended what xenophobic means. We will give you a free University education as long as your not a English.

I'll field this one...

Free education for those [i]permanently resident[/i] in scotland, so there is nothing preventing an english child from receiving a fully funded scottish degree. Residence is all that counts, not nationality, so that alone makes a nonsense of the xenophobia claim.

Also, it's not just the english- same applies for the welsh, northern irish, oh and as a minor consideration the entire rest of the world (outwith the EU)

The only oddity is that we're legally obliged to fund EU applicants. This wouldn't be done if we had a choice, so it'd be daft to blame the scottish government for it. But even then the numbers we're talking about here are small- so the reality isn't "EU students get a free scottish degree", it's "most EU applicants get nowt"