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That's interesting Jim; how old are you? It's just because Settler Watch were active in 1992-3,had two cells; one in "oil country" and a married couple in Dumfries. Even the parent group( since you brought them up as an example of anti English sentiment) can't get more than a couple of dozen to their annual flag burning. I am curious as to where you saw the graffiti as my ex-wife was in Edinburgh at the time and I never saw a single example,either of that or her posh Welsh accent,which sounded English creating problems for her.They also hate all ethnic minorities,so to say they are a specific anti English group is incorrect. I would also question the specific targeting of English tourists/people in Edinburgh;do you have any factually accurate evidence, rather than opinion?
Nobody has said on here that it doesnt exist. They have said it isn't the reason for an independence movement, which is a claim trotted out on here.
Since we are doing Scottish history....burning a union flag at Culloden...REALLY?
I do wonder about it when people say things like "Every English person living in Scotland has experienced ant-English racism at some point." I lived in England for about a year and if you asked me if I experienced anti-Scottish racism I would say no.
If you asked me if I got the piss taken out of me for my funny accent, aggressiveness, drunkenness, heroin addiction, love of deep fried mars bars, etc then yes, if you wanted to reach that conclusion you could say that I experienced a lot of anti-Scottish racism.
As far as Anyone But England goes that's completely justified. If the English had to listen to coverage of every sports event that only talked about it from a French perception then they'd very soon be saying Anyone But France.
BruceWee - Member
...As far as Anyone But England goes that's completely justified...
That's a wider phenomenon than just Scotland. I've heard it from Irish and Welsh people.
It's common in the antipodes too, and maybe in other ex-colonies.
Maybe it's more of a reaction to the way English sports teams get bigged up far beyond their actual capabilities, followed by the excuses.
You'll find some racism in any sufficiently large group of people. It certainly exists in Scotland, and anti-english sentiment is a part of it.
However, it's not linked to Scots Nationalism to any significant degree. The latter is far more to do with the wish for self-determination of a nation state, than the ethnic origins or skin colour of those living there. Frankly, considering things like the Poll Tax experiment which the English imposed on Scotland, I'm surprised there isn't more anti-english sentiment. Maybe that's long ago enough that people have forgotten.
I do wonder about it when people say things like "Every English person living in Scotland has experienced ant-English racism at some point." I lived in England for about a year and if you asked me if I experienced anti-Scottish racism I would say no.
oddly, and quite surprisingly, the only proper anti english comment I've had, outwith banter, is when I started my PhD. chatting to some of the undergrad students and one asked if I was Australian, I said no, I'm from worcestershire, to which she replied 'oh, your one of them'. It was serious too, I thought she was joking, but she refused to speak to me after that.
I blamedthe previous nights run of braveheart..
Other than that, the Scots have been more than welcoming.
For a comparison on racism in Scotland and England, there is an easy test.
Go to the Daily Express/Mail, find an article that mentions Scotland and independence and read the comments. The comments are not couched in logical terms to put it politely.
Now do the same in a Scottish paper and see if the comments are unpleasant about the English. Just about any time that happens someone pulls them up, but it's rare anyway.
Try it and see.
Why would Scotland want to be shackled to a country with that attitude so prevalent to us?
Ahem
Stop detailing the remoaners brexishambles thread,
Tho obviously indyref2 is only a possibility thanks to that
But it seems to be ever more likely
Judging by the applause on QT for oakshot many Brexiters in England think that hard Brexit is the way forward, either way Scotland is fuct IMHO, just like the rest of Britain
It's just which is the least worst option
The easy bit is to start by ruling our the disaster scenarios.
1. become a smalii indepeiendent (sic) member of the Euro Zone
The ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind. "I only want what is in my best long term interests and bugger the people of Scotland"
I will satisfy the entry criteria by outdoing the filthy English with their austerity and then give up control of our fiscal and monetary policy. It's called "INDEPENDENCE"........no really!!!! C'mon fellow English haters this is the way forward - "Advance!"
OF FFS his name calling has started already and from the man who says we should never ever play the man [sic].exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind
Facepalm
Just disagree with her without the childish name calling.
teamhurtmore - MemberThe ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind.
Care to support this assertion? Are you still basing this entirely on that interview you linked before, when she said it would be discussed but "It is not the SNP's policy to seek entry to the euro now or at any time in the foreseeable future.", which in THM-world meant she wants to join the euro?
She's a one that fish women eh.
Having been told No to independence, she now insists another vote y'no just in case the intellectual have changed
thier minds.
Awe, got to feel sorry for Scotlandshire.
As one person said on QT last night, "is it best of three?"
NW, we will await her new currency solution then, they screwed up last time by their own admission - sounds a bit like Brexiteers with their ill-thought out nonsense. Are you brave enough to have a Scottish pound?
"Its not SNP policy to have a credible policy over a future currency." Ends and means....
Still peddling the same lies despite being caught out on it previously?her new currency solution then, they screwed up last time by their own admission -
Having been told No to independence, she now insists another vote y'no just in case the intellectual have changed thier minds.
Wouldn't worry about that - inspired by Brexit and Trump this campaign will be aimed squarely at the dumbest end of the electorate
You've got to admire THM tbh, he can claim one second that Sturgeon is definitely pro-euro, "The ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind." and then without missing a beat when pulled up for it and for the childish name-calling, just move onto the next thing as if it never happened. And yet half his posts in this thread are going to be about dishonesty. Hate does funny things to people.
You are a card Scottie. Lies indeed 😀
Just listen to what Stiglitz said and read his new book on your future currency!!! He will have banked his fees and retired but the time your future generation have to deal with the consequences.
SNP are so lucky to have people who continue to swallow this guff. Tartan blindfolds all round.
3 Jackson's Entry - the birthplaceof #posttruthpolitics
Hence why we are debating it 😉this campaign will be aimed squarely at the dumbest end of the electorate
Its not unreasonable to reconsider the issue in light of the massive changes for scotland to remain in the union due to Brexit
That this change is against the will of the Scottish exacerbates this need
TBH any leader who did not explore this would be remiss in their duties but clearly the SNP is politically motivated on this issue and will seize any opportunity
Brexit just handed them a massive one.
Keep denying NW. Any honest person knows that she has admitted considering the Euro. There is no other option other than proper independence and your own currency and she is rightly scared of that.
#tartanblindfold - see no evil, hear no evil, speak lots of it 😉
I haven't seen much in the way of demonstrable evidence that Scotland could actually stay in the EU without first exiting and then the timeframe and process of how we would get back in. Call me cynical but haven't we been down this road of empty promises of a promised land. As a country we are in recession and our economy heavily relies on being part of a United Kingdom. I voted no when it was about heart not head, I'd prefer our government to focus on what it was elected to do, run the country not concentrate on this but it is what it is. Personally I think if we have a Indy vote and we vote to leave we will have 10 miserable years of poor economic outlook and sadly the lower classes will suffer as it's no small matter that tax take will reduce and services will decline. That's my opinion.
The SNP know they wouldn't win another Referendum now so they don't want one. Their goal is to pass legisation allowing them to call one as and when they want. They can do that in isolation but it will have not be binding as was the last one. It's all for show, as usual.
As Alex said it was a "once in a lifetime" chance, 2 years to make the case. The SNP failed
It's a bit like £350m, don't worry about the truth, juts keep the lies in people's minds and ultimately they will fall for it. The long war of attrition.
its really not they want independence and its their prime objectiveIt's all for show, as usual.
As for only for show it will be hard to ignore a vote to leave and argue its not binding whilst arguing the Uk one , which is also non binding re the EU, is a binding one.
I am sure you will be able to do this mind as a lack of consistency is something you excel in
Of course they are playing politics they are politicians with an agenda and exploiting the scenario to try and achieve their main goal
I am not sure whether we should admire them or criticise them for this but its hardly a uniquely SNP thing
Late to this thread, read it until page 7 then realised it was 3 months old, I would comment as follows.
1)They, Scottish Politicians, should at least have the good manners, common sense, to wait until they know what it is they will actually be leaving, they'd look pretty sick if the UK strikes the deal it really wants (cake & eat it).
2)There is no chance they'd be allowed to remain/rejoin the EU/single market, Spain would never permit it.
3)Are they not running a massive fiscal deficit? They'd have to use sterling, they'd have a lot of trouble floating their own currency, bitcoin maybe, but I doubt even the bastards at Goldman Sachs could offer them a similar Greek cookbook to fix their accounts, so they'd remain tied to us but without the benefits.
4)I never really understood why the want to self govern, especially now since they're helping to govern us, 56 of the buggers from a 1.6million vote aint exactly fair and proper, but they're here and vote on stuff they shouldn't at the drop of a hat if they can cause a nuisance to the party we elected.
They are acting like spoilt children, the referendum was clearly only permitted on the basis it was a one time only vote and common sense prevailed, they have reaped the benefits of devolution and have devo plus with all those SNP folk at Westminster, why not quit whilst you're ahead, always the way with Scots give them an inch and they'll take the arm that gie em it.
I'm of the view that the vote should be given to the entire nation wether it wants to allow bits to break away, I don't recall voting on the devolution thing that just got slipped in there by Blair wasn't it, he has such a lot to answer for.
teamhurtmore - MemberKeep denying NW. Any honest person knows that she has admitted considering the Euro.
You see what I mean?
THM says: "The ultimate folly, and yet exactly what the Nicky Narcissist has in mind."
I respond : "she said it would be discussed"
and THM inexplicably goes from this to:
"Any honest person knows that she has admitted considering the euro."
So- by his own admission I'm honest, because I said she's considering it, and he is dishonest, because he claimed it was definitely her plan. And somehow this becomes "Keep denying NW." It's not healthy tbh.
The SNP know they wouldn't win another Referendum now so they don't want one.
Correct
Their goal is to pass legisation allowing them to call one as and when they want.
Correct
They can do that in isolation but it will have not be binding as was the last one. It's all for show, as usual
What are you going to do should they win, send the troops in?
You know, these allegations of a BBC bias may have something to them .... 😆
What are you going to do should they win, send the troops in?
wait for Shetland to go for an Indyref
So if it is all about democracy, as the SNP claim, if there is Indyref2 and the Scottish Borders along with Dumfries & Galloway vote no again does this mean we stay as part of the UK?
Do the borders or d&g have their own parliament?
Do the borders or d&g have their own parliament?
Aye at Westminster!
No point in SNP harping on about Scotland's vote re Brexit then ignoring the vote of those in areas who (possibly) vote twice to remain in the UK.
If areas want to secede from an independent Scotland that'd be up to them I reckon. There's obviously a difference between voting to remain in the UK along with the whole country, and voting to secede, though. But if there was a genuine movement for it then it's hard to see how a future independent scottish government could deny it really.
jambalaya - Member
The SNP know they wouldn't win another Referendum now so they don't want one. Their goal is to pass legisation allowing them to call one as and when they want. They can do that in isolation but it will have not be binding as was the last one. It's all for show, as usual.
Brexit has set the standard, referendums are binding, whether they are legally binding or not.
selkirkbear - Member
Do the borders or d&g have their own parliament?
Aye at Westminster!No point in SNP harping on about Scotland's vote re Brexit then ignoring the vote of those in areas who (possibly) vote twice to remain in the UK.
i'm perfectly happy for toryville to remain part of the UK. 😆 crack on.
Personally I'd prefer an independent of state of glesga and the surrounding areas.
Chookterville is no concern of mine! 😆
No, Westminster is (supposed to be) the parliament for the UK. The Scottish Parliament is the parliament for, wait for it, Scotland. I'm sure you understand the point but there's a big difference between a country and a region. To take your argument to its logical conclusion why don't we all just decide as individuals if we're going to be independent or not. Hey, that's a thought. Then maybe someone could tally up all those decisions (let's call them "votes") and see what the majority consensus is.
i'm perfectly happy for toryville to remain part of the UK. crack on.Personally I'd prefer an independent of state of glesga and the surrounding areas.
Chookterville is no concern of mine!
You'd need your passport to visit any of the 7 Stanes 😀
....and see what the majority consensus is
Totally agree. Just making the point that the SNP shouldn't try to use the votes of a minority, how Scotland voted in UK Brexit vote, to make a case for Indyref2.
it was a majority voteJust making the point that the SNP shouldn't try to use the votes of a minority, how Scotland voted in UK Brexit vote, to make a case for Indyref2.
DO you mean it was less than 50% of those who could vote?
If that is the case then they are also allowed to ignore the indy ref 1 vote as that also did not meet that threshold of 50% of all voters so they can ignore that
Its pretty strange to argue a govt should ignore the majority wish of its population be it the leaving the EU or the remain in the UK union
Which matters most? Who knows lets have a vote on it to see
IMHO its obvious this is a substantial change to remaining in the union and its not unreasonable to ask the populace which they prefer
WIthout the brexit vote what you say is true
It's probably safe to assume that the vast majority of the anti-independence / anti-SNP posts on here come from English residents. Perhaps quite understandably, you're all mostly missing the point - there are so many deep and fundamental differences between England and Scotland that are driving the independence desire / debate up here. I for one do not understand the English Brexit viewpoint "let's take back our sovereignty and control immigration". The EU laws that we all have to abide by are hardly onerous or causing deep damage to our lives. EU immigration is not a problem. If the Westminster government seriously wanted to spread the wealth then immigration would be spread over the entire country rather than concentrated in the south east. In Scotland we are comfortable with sharing some common laws in order to gain advantage. English people still seem to have an "empire" mentality whereby nobody should rule over us. Independence is coming because our two countries are growing apart.
No the english like unions they dominate and control and dont like ones where they are only a member
Hence why they dislike the EU and love the UK
So- by his own admission I'm honest, because I said she's considering it, and he is dishonest, because he claimed it was definitely her plan. And somehow this becomes "Keep denying NW."
More spinning than a pipers band 😉
It's not healthy tbh.
Its not - you will get giddy. Now admittedly, Sturgeon is not straight on the currency, but "has in mind" and considering is the same thing as you well know. In the book of dreams, a fanciful idea was put forward which collapsed immediately (as Stiglitz admitted despite Scotties attempts at denial). So you are left with two options - a new currency and the Euro. Correct me if I am wrong (but be honest this time) but i have yet to hear Sturgeon lay out plans for an independent currency. But we do know from her own words that she believes that the € is a viable option - which any sane person knows is total nonsense and contradictory to the whole essence of independence.
As you two are in education, I would expect more honesty on these issues but given the wave of post truths politics that has dominated the debate, you can be forgiven for being swallowed up in it. After all ends justify the meant for the nats after all.
But if Brexshit tells us one thing - is that you cannot escape hard reality for ever. In the meantime enjoy the pipedreams.
Why do you nats, always ignore the Welsh and the N Irish - and you claim that the English as self-obsessed?
teamhurtmore - your constant ramblings on here about the SNP and your barely veiled contempt and derisory remarks about Scotland have long worn thin.
You are increasing coming over as very bitter and unpleasant with a superiority complex. You should take a step back and re-evaluate your life, this obsession can't be healthy.
KM - go back a few pages and see the positive comments about Scoltand. I love the place. What I hate is the crap spouted by yS and the deceit of Sturgeon and Salmond. Like all leaders of posttruthpolitics parties they need to be constantly held to account.
If you want to swallow what they say without checking then so be it. Its a democracy after all and remember that is what the Brexshitters did and look at the mess that has created.
As you were....you can always follow this
epicyclo - Member
teamhurtmore - Member
Dear old Nicola still can't answer basic questions on Marr re the basics of an independent Scotland - groundhog day!!!
[b]So what?[/b]POSTED 3 MONTHS AGO # REPORT-POST
So what indeed - its not that important is it? 😯
THM - my post has for some reason or another been nuked.
So I'll repeat:
Very true, like the BSers, those of the generations of recent history who have enjoyed the benefits of union and have bought forward consumption through an excessive use of debt now wish to deprive future generations of the same benefits and saddle them with the costs of our consumption. We are truly the selfish generation.
You'll have to elaborate, what "future benefits" would I be depriving my daughter of? It's exacly because of the loss of benefits I'd consider leaving. The benefits of freedom of movement and the single market trump the political direction the rest of the UK seems to be taking.
teamhurtmore - Member
What I hate is
Anything you feel will affect your balance sheet.
Lets cut through your BS will we. You dislike change. You like predictability.
It's all about the balance sheet.
@rosscore - yes you have it, you will get called names for having those views
@donald ignore the result of an illegitimate referendum. To leave Scotland would have to send in the troops to keep the "English" out.
@seaso that would be the case if it where a UK wide Referendum, as it stands it would be like Yorkshire voting for Independence
If Scotland leaves the UK they would have in currency terms to
1) have a Scottish pound before taking the euro assuming they are able to join the EU sometime in the future
2) have the British pound before joining EU and taking euro
3) have the euro whilst outside the EU and keep it after joining
Brexit timetable is all done by 2019 and next European Elections - this makes Indy Ref 2 timing impossible imo any time soon
SNP would not win a Referendum today. Europe / euro is going to go pear shaped before 2019 possibly accelerated by Brexit. As such SNP would not call any Referendum till UK is definitely out. At that point rejoining EU is desperately difficult as noted above re-Spain / Catalonia etc. I strongky believe by 2019/2020 the EU and euro is going to look extremely unattractive to join.
Sorry SQ missed the ? - not deliberate.
Despite all the referendum BS, when you step back and consider the UK you see one of the best examples of a properly functioning union including a full and successfully working currency union (the thing that yS pretended that they could keep). It works precisely because the UK fulfills the criteria for having a shared currency in contrast to the EU which does not.
So you get all the positive economic benefits that accrue from open borders - higher growth, lower transaction costs, freedom of movement etc (its a ve long list) - with the benefits of diversifying risk associated with a relatively narrow economic bases including the excess exposure to the volatile oil price and having a central bank that is able to fulfil the function of a realistic lender of last resort (important given the (excess) size of the financial sector etc). That's just for starters
On tip of this, you benefit from an increasing level of devolved power - despite not wanting to use all those powers.
Under what kind of madness would you want to throw these benefits away for future generations? The Book of Dreams demonstrated clearly that there is no sensible answer only smokescreens and deceit.
Now this is complicated because as a whole the UK has embarked on the ultimate madness of Brexshit. So we are all sufferering and this is all the more galling for Scots (as I have said many times early) because you (like the area where I live) voted to remain. So yes, we are stuffed. Its shit, really shit.
But, and this is the thing, is the knee jerk reaction of dear Nicola including "consideration" of joining the EZ and the € a sensible one? Of course not, that is even worse and would result in much less independence of the key instruments of policy and locking yourselves into a currency union which BY DESIGN HAS TO FAIL. Why would you wish that on anyone?
As Stiglitz finally admitted -if you want independence you have to be prepared to have your own currency and the risk and reward that goes with it. This is incompatible with membership of the EZ unfortunately, but there you go. Life is full of tough choices.
The best solution for all of us was to REMAIN but we have thrown that away. But that doesnt mean you do something even more foolish. Step 1 - minimise the damage from Brexshit.
Joe - its a bit early but I will have whatever you are having. Its Friday after all. 😉
Regardless of all the jambafacts being thrown about here I consider this pretty exciting. I'm English but lived in Scotland for about 5 years and only left under duress but our goal is to move back. I was very much No last time but it's become clear that English government is so at odds with anyone even remotely left leaning and encourages such I'll treatment of vulnerable people that Scotland, a country of warmth, generosity and compassion, can't be ruled from Westminster.
Good luck Scotland, I hope this goes well this time.
And this talk of "Scotland" as some homogenous beast is also misleading. The same agreements about unrepresentative powers concentrated in narrow regions occurs in Scotland as they do for the whole UK. And remember the result of the vote
Dundee, Glasgow, N Lanarks (just) and W Dumbartonshire v the rest
OH thm the mask slips further still
Anyway I am sure NW and others are relived you do not play the man
oops forgot my use of winkys there didnt i
😉
😆
Scotland has some stunning scenery and great people.
They were also treated like carp by the English.
Don't blame them if they want to leave and would love to join them.
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/scottish-independence-voting-intention-results-september-2016/
"Speaking for the people of Scotland!!" 😀
Sturgeon is merely using Brexit to strengthen SNP position by casting doubts in people mind regarding the Union.
She knows very well that if she keeps quiet there is a very big risk their fire (SNP majority) will slowly burn out if PM May succeed in creating an unexpected Brexit success (or whatever negatives previously predicted).
Hence, she is using her leadership time to push for her own SNP agenda that can only be win win for her(I think she wants to be SNP leader for a long time) . For example:
1. Blame Brexit if Scotland is not doing well under SNP. i.e. Get the knife in while someone is still bleeding.
2. Suggest independent would make them better off but the Union prevented them (actually people do not want independent but keeping banging on the point anyway).
3. Claiming to be part of world citizen, EU or whatever BS there is so they want to be part of that (no, keep out of Asia).
All the blames above would ensure that she will not be accused of failing whatever she promised as SNP leader.
I bet King James 1 would be turning in his grave not resting in peace with all these SNP talks.
1. Scotland wasn't doing well ages before Brexit, significantly poorly in fact if you look at the GERS figures and particularly when economically you remove major capital projects. People are in la la land if they think we can have a sustainable economy without something giving. Our top level tax take, the mythical 1% aren't where the money will come from, it's the next layer. You know, all those middle class cockwombles in their BMWs who are bank middle management. WERE bank middle managment post article 50 execution more specifically
2 Exactly, lets make an assertion with no basis.
They should really concentrate on creating better social equality, tackling child pverty in scotland which is an utter disgrace and stop myopically espousing 'facts' that are, generously, exaggerations.
. Scotland wasn't doing well ages before Brexit, significantly poorly in fact if you look at the GERS figures and particularly when economically you remove major capital projects. People are in la la land if they think we can have a sustainable economy without something giving. Our top level tax take, the mythical 1% aren't where the money will come from, it's the next layer. You know, all those middle class cockwombles in their BMWs who are bank middle management. WERE bank middle managment post article 50 execution more specifically
So Scotland is uniquely unqualified to run its own affairs in the way any other small european nation does?
GERS is not argument against independence. Almost all the economic levers are still in the hands of Westminster not Holyrood. [i]If[/i] the Scottish economy is a mess then its a sign that the status quo is not working not an advertisement for it.
So Scotland is uniquely unqualified to run its own affairs in the way any other small european nation does?
No, it just gave up that right when it signed the act of union, which as you well know was designed at the time to be forever and irrevocable
starting point was 25% last time...teamhurtmore - Member
> http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/scottish-independence-voting-intention-results-september-2016/"Speaking for the people of Scotland!!"
Indyref 3.
There's already been 2 once in a lifetime referendum on independence in my lifetime what difference will s third make?
when was the first?
1979
My bad was for a devolved parliament.
yup.
tbh If you look at that timeline.
79failed devo, (18 years) 97won devo, (17 years) 14failed indy, (16 years) 2030 scotland will gain independence.
It is an inevitability and the timeline I'd think people should be looking at.
THM, I see you [i]still[/i] don't know what post-truth politics is. You still seem to think it's anything you don't agree with.
In case I'm missing something, can you give us an example of SNP post-truth politics from the last seven days?
Richmtb-i wouldnt say we were unqualified , for a very long time we didn't really need to worry as we were propped up by oil. Not so now. A lot of our central belt employment is also predicated on financial services. Financial passporting agreements will define what happens to that , I suppose we could mysteriously enter the EU and be a powerhouse, that would be great but I am a bit light on details of how hatcwould happen. Anyway, as a major employer it worries me.
can i have a pound bet he makes up something and spins it to the point of being untrue like the Euro point NW addressed
Whether Scotland can stay in the EU or not is being spoken about with an awful lot of certainty given the fact that no one, and I do mean no one, knows what would happen.
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37307203 ]Although this chap doesn't seem to think there'll be a problem[/url]
Simple: since when has Scottish nationalism had membership of the single market at heart. This week has been another smokescreen with false claims about "rights" about the biggest lie of all - "best interests of the people of Scotland."
Lets condisder fact: According to the Scottish Government’s own figures, Scotland’s removal from the single market would be far less damaging – by a factor of four – than its removal from the UK single market. And yet how does the narcissist present this in the posttruth world? You tell me.
History showed us that they were prepared to lie royally throughout and this remains the case. Only the blind cannot see this. Fortunately they (still) remain in the minority.
Scotland deserves better
It's about time Yorkshire got its chance for independence! Sick of hearing about Scotlandshire want another vote. If they were not so narrow minded they could become part of an Independant Greater Yorkshire or YUK (Yorkshire United Kingdom).
I have to admit I'm surprised the voting intentions haven't changed since the referenda - maybe you shouldn't believe all you read on here.
Amongst all the rubbish THM does make some good points (it's a shame he has to spoil it with the bluster - he clearly knows a lot more than people give him credit for). The fundamental one here being that like many remainers I'm prepared to put my political dislike for the EU to one side given the clear economic advantages. Yet the Scottish indy folk are prepared to vote for worse economic strife for the sake of a political point. Yes, I am English, but just like a French person looking at the brexit vote I recognise it would be bad for both of us.
[quote=aracer ]I have to admit I'm surprised the voting intentions haven't changed since the referenda - maybe you shouldn't believe all you read on here.
I guess it depends on how you ask the question?
May seems to be totally ignoring the Scottish people with a hard Brexit, I can see why NS would want another referendum.
Amongst all the rubbish THM does make some good points
why thank you
May seems to be totally ignoring the Scottish people with a hard Brexit, I can see why NS would want another referendum.
Have you met Mr Tusk?
cchris2lou - Member
May seems to be totally ignoring the Scottish people with a hard Brexit, I can see why NS would want another referendum.
Yes, Sturgeon is taking this opportunity to back stab PM May because she knows PM May is busy dealing with EU and Remainders at the moment.
She is trying it on as usual by pushing her views across strongly. She can even speaks without blinking her eyes and normally speak non-stops (without "breathing" or stopping) because she is trying to be viewed as if she knows what she is talking about. Very well rehearse.
The more PM May deals with EU with Brexit negotiations the more Sturgeon will push her views strongly across.
There should be a correlation with Sturgeon calling for independence and PM May negotiation intensity with EU.
If you want to know if PM May is intensifying negotiation, all you need to do is look at Sturgeon reaction.
Sturgeon will be able to get inside information from her EU bureaucratic informants. I assume they are buddy buddy because of the "common" enemy.
Does Tusk have some sort of responsibility to Scotland- did you not argue they were not in the EU as it was only the UK that was in ref 1 discussions? The UK is the only one that can do a soft brexit as the eu wont change the rules for us. we know this and we have always known this.
I agree THM does know his stuff but it would be better if he did not couch it in childish names for politicians and if he clearly articulated hos views rather than alluded and patronised.
I doubt the economic argument is as clear cut if the option is tied to the EU or tied to a post EU UKYet the Scottish indy folk are prepared to vote for worse economic strife for the sake of a political point.
Is the real problem not that the non scottish voters just voted for this and Scotland would rather avoid it ?
@cchris2lou she's ignoring most of the people, I don't think anywhere near a majority voted for hard brexit. Which is one of the big issues with the whole thing.
Since the brexit thread got hijacked by indyref talk, are we going to do the reverse here? 👿
Interesting as the pitch - though palpable lies- was to include access which looks increasingly unlikely- as we all knew anyway
Part of me hopes May is just doing all this so the three brexiteers get a shit deal and parliament force her to let them vte and they compromise on a new vote on the offered deal
Who knows with may as she sees hell bent on reducing immigration at any cost.