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Seems what way to you?
Answer my question first.
Rwanda is now considered a safe country, free from war, persecution etc?
Considered by who? Tories? Or the people fleeing from Rwanda due to, errrr, persecution.
Agreed, much like many of those who chose to be vaccinated against Covid-19 were more than happy to have rights taken away from those who, for whatever reason, declined to be vaccinated.
No one had their "rights" removed for refusing to get vaccinated. They may, however have been persecuted for their beliefs.
Seems what way to you?
Answer my question first.
Your question is not relevant because I have never said I don't want them here. I simply asked questions regarding the alternatives?
So go on then, seems what way to you?
No one had their “rights” removed for refusing to get vaccinated. They may, however have been persecuted for their beliefs.
Perhaps tell that to my sister who lost her job as manager of a care home because she was not vaccinated, despite having what she considered a valid medical exemption.
Hey there,
It occurred to me that the only people I want on this flight are Conservative MP's.
The only way I can handle this completely ignorant malaise of a government is by humor.
BR
JeZ
Your posts are giving all the alternatives they could do, rather than just settle here. Why can’t they just settle here?
Re: The haulier post
I entirely sympathise, but those things are primarily the consequence of not dealing with asylum claims in a rational and compassionate way. There are virtually no legal routes to present yourself in the UK as an asylum seeker, so you do the things listed above, or pay money to people smugglers to make a dangerous boat crossing. Because you are desperate.
The solution is to actually cooperate with our neighbours rather than antagonising them, and set up processing centres to resolve their claims before they have to become criminals to get here.
Something like 80% of current claims are successful - this means that these people are not simply economic migrants, but genuinely fleeing persecution or war (and yes, fighting age men do, on occasion, flee war).
The truth is, though, this is not about stopping people dying in the Channel, or freeing hauliers from the ridiculous requirement to do the border force's job for them. They could set up legal routes for asylum seekers and solve that problem almost overnight. This is about demonising a group of people for electoral gain. And sadly, it is working.
Also, complaining about people resorting to criminal activity because you have criminalised them and prevented them from working is an odd argument.
Our current asylum policy is not just killing and criminalising genuine refugees, it is failing UK citizens as well.
Your posts are giving all the alternatives they could do, rather than just settle here. Why can’t they just settle here?
Tom, I will ask you again, how do I seem to you? Have the courage to say what you meant, or if not please apologise for your thinly veiled accusation.
Tom, I will ask you again, how do I seem to you?
Can't speak for Tom but to me you seem like a small minded racist. Prove me wrong.
Racism. There I said it. Happy now? Care to answer the question and prove me wrong?
So YOU call me a racist with no evidence, but it is ME who has to justify to you why I am not? Is this honestly where you are going? Really?
Do not feed the obvious troll.
Do not feed the obvious troll.
So a troll now as well as a racist. Seems that's standard form for on here for anyone who asks an awkward question.
I haven’t accused you of anything. Your posts indicate, by providing every reason/other ‘option’ other than to settle here, that you don’t want them to settle here. Why is this?
I don’t think you’re a troll TBF. Just a racist.
That is a very interesting observation considering that I am of mixed race. I think you need to calm yourself down to be honest as you seem to have lost a grip on what you should be saying to someone you don't know in a public, online forum. I have reported your post but perhaps you ought to take a break from this thread as it is clearly not good for your mental health. Perhaps use that time to seek some professional help. And I say this with genuine concern for you.
Seems that’s standard form for on here for anyone who asks an awkward question.
I didn't see any awkward questions.
I watched the BBC news last night and found it very worrying that they are not just allowing government spokespeople to get away with using terms like ‘lefty lawyers’ unchallenged (they are simply ‘lawyers’) but are also using the terms themselves. They were doing it again on Radio 4 this morning
So much for impartiality and objectivity
Funny how quiet Priti is this morning innit? Still if you’re going to nail your colours to a failed Australian policy, you should expect to have to dodge the press a bit…
She’s been AWOL through this whole charade, sending Home Office underlings out to do her dirty work. Like Truss, and her boss she’s dodged Parliament as well, in her case to spare the usual ritual of her being torn a new one by Yvette Coooper
I have reported your post
Diddums! If you don't like being called a racist stop posting racist sounding stuff.
PS. Your ethnicity is irrelevent.
Diddums! If you don’t like being called a racist stop posting racist sounding stuff.
PS. Your ethnicity is irrelevent.
Please quote something I have said then that is actually racist?
Perhaps tell that to my sister who lost her job as manager of a care home because she was not vaccinated, despite having what she considered a valid medical exemption.
So she was persecuted for her beliefs. Specifically the belief that she knows better.
Can you tell me what rights she had infringed?
That is a very interesting observation considering that I am of mixed race.
Point of order - being mixed race/an ethnic minority does not mean you can't be racist.
I think like the folks who shouted loudest to get us out of the EU are now aiming their ignorance at getting the UK to leave the ECHR.
Please quote something I have said then that is actually racist?
You're parroting all the usual lines that proven racists like Farage et al spout on the asylum issue, and then when called out on it repeatedly refuse to answer a simple question which could show us that you're not like them. That's all I need to form an opinion. If that opinion is wrong, tell me why. You've been asked many times and still you refuse the invitation. ('being' mixed race doesn't count BTW)
So one last opportunity, why do you not want asylum seekers to come here?
That is a very interesting observation considering that I am of mixed race.
The entire sending asylum seekers to Rwanda policy has racism at its very core. As indeed UK immigration and nationality laws in general have. Jamaicans are treated differently to Italians, Ukrainians are treated differently to Afghans, and so on.
The fact that the Home Secretary is, apparently unlike you, 100% non-white, does not on any way diminish that fact. In the same way that non-white involvement in the regimes in Rhodesia and Apartheid South Africa did not diminish the racist character of those regimes.
They always have the option to claim asylum in France or any other safe country they pass through on route to the UK.
Unless of course they wish to make their lives even a modicum easier after the hell they're escaping by going to the country where they can speak some of the language, such is English's worldwide reach. It's a tiny head start for people who just want to stand on their own two feet.
Does he have a point?
Well, some people behave badly, that doesn't mean all refugees are bad and therefore don't deserve help. Not sure what that post was about exactly? Sounded like a bit of a 'yeah but' angle.
@bendover I'm not part of this bun fight - why don't you think refugees can live here?
It’s a tiny head start for people who just want to stand on their own two feet.
And it's of course not simply the fact that the amount of European countries where English is spoken is extremely limited, there are also other reasons for asylum seekers to aim for the UK, such as the man who was due to be deported on that flight yesterday who has a son living in the UK.
Plus also all those who actively helped HM forces during periods of occupation.
It does seem like a fairly simple question to answer - why don't you think refugees can live here?
The reason they come here is pretty simple, a lot have friends of family or another connection to the UK.
If this country descended into war & you grabbed your family & ran, where would you run? The nearest country or the one half way round the world where you have connections & the possibility of making a new life for yourself.
Free member with dubious forum name that joined 5 days ago getting into arguments on internet forum shocker.
Is this the room for an argument?
It does seem like a fairly simple question to answer – why don’t you think refugees can live here?
It's coz with over 67 million people living here there's no more room, innit?
The fact that more people died in the UK of Covid last week than were going to be on that flight yesterday doesn't come into it.
The numbers entering the UK fleeing wars and persecution are inconsequential, which is precisely why the UK has a very long history welcoming them, including Priti Patel's parents and Nigel Farage's ancestors.
Alp Mehmet from Migration Watch UK, which campaigns for lower immigration into the UK, thinks it’s a disgrace that the flight have been cancelled
The hypocrisy of the likes of this clown , Patel and zahawi, all either immigrants themselves, or children of immigrants, boils my piss
I like the way you frame someone wanting to leave the EU as ‘ignorant’.
I'm framing those who led the arguments, the polemicists, journalists, and politicians as ignorant. I don't hold those who voted for leaving responsible, on the back on huge amounts of falsehoods thrown at them daily, for the shit we're in now. I'll bet money that Venn diagram of people criticizing the ECHR in this morning's press and those blaming the EU fr all the world's ill are largely overlapping.
However, It's pretty clear who you are, I don't suppose this version of your account will last much longer than any of the other's you've used before
It's a first step in the right direction. Rwanda is safe. So it meets the remit of providing asylum, right? Anything else is economic migration surely and should be points based or adaptable based on the economic needs of the country, and which is already available via the official routes that don't include arriving here in a plastic boat.
It might be a bit clumsy but it can be adapted going forward. At least something is being done, for too long it's been a case of sticking our fingers in our ears and ignoring the issue. Quite apart from breaking the trade in misery from the people smuggling, the UK can't, or won't sustain an open borders policy for migrants. There is a shortage of affordable housing for a start, get that sorted first. Start another massive council-housing scheme, multiple new towns etc.
There is a shortage of affordable housing for a start, get that sorted first. Start another massive council-housing scheme, multiple new towns etc.
How much council housing have they got in Rwanda?
Can't we get asylum seekers to build some council housing in the UK?
Good point about council housing though.
Quite apart from breaking the trade in misery from the people smuggling
I'm not sure the policy of sending them to Rwanda will do this.
the UK can’t, or won’t sustain an open borders policy for migrants.
However an easy legal route into the UK for refugees absolutely will. (break the trade in people smuggling)
Excellent piece on 5 Live yesterday with an Australian based in Rwanda - he was horrified the UK are making the same pointless and expensive mistakes Australia did with offshore refugees (leaving aside the moral and legal problems) and also pointed out that the Rwandan economy isn't really set up to offer opportunities to these people
We should be flying families in straight from refugee camps and settling them here.
We should allow asylum seekers to work.
Asylum seekers are a small part of immigration. The Tories conflate asylum and immigration for political gain, they are ****s and the media just let them get away with it.
Has Human Rights Lawyer SKS put his head above the parapet yet?
So things I admit to not knowing about this.
There are being sent to Rwanda to seek asylum there. (Seem a fundamental thing I didn't know)
Accomodation is "basic hostels" near Kigali. (Having seen basic hostels and schools in Zambia that would be a potential shock to our western eyes).
Most of the 150,000 current refugees in Rwanda are unemployed on £35 per month.
70% of Rwanda's population are subsistence farmers.
UK paid £120m up front for 1000 refugees, to be followed by further payment if they "handled" more refugees.
All from BBC news website.
Has Human Rights Lawyer SKS put his head above the parapet yet?
We'll find out in a few minutes.
He'd be wise not to. Labour should stick to other voices challenging this.
including Priti Patel’s parents and Nigel Farage’s ancestors.
If the tories wanted to get people onside they should try this.
A refugee today could produce a Patel or Farage in the next generation. Is it worth the risk?
Free member with dubious forum name that joined 5 days ago getting into arguments on internet forum shocker.
Not just this thread either, although this one does seem to have provided the desired result
It does seem like a fairly simple question to answer – why don’t you think refugees can live here?
Thing is, if you ask that question and dont get an answer its very easy to ask yourself why they wouldn't. And its very easy to end up with "they just dont want them here coz theyre not from us" and whatever that entails.
I personally, cant think of a reason that would over-ride the benefits of helping them.
I personally, cant think of a reason that would over-ride the benefits of helping them.
Me either, but look at any opinion poll on the matter and these sorts of policies are surprisingly popular. Again years of grinding away at; Taking your job. Can't get a GP appointment. Claiming benefits. Taking jobs....and so on and and on. Undoing all that narrative will take decades, and because it's useful to govt of all stripes as cover for all sorts of neo-liberal policies, I doubt will happen in my lifetime.
Me either, but look at any opinion poll on the matter and these sorts of policies are surprisingly popular.
No you need to be selective with regards to which poll you look at. Polls actually show huge public support in the UK for those fleeing war and persecution:
There is little doubt that many people who currently support the government's Rwanda policy do so because they have bought into the government's claim that it is for asylum seekers own good, and that Rwanda is a great place.
The opposition bears some responsibility for not effectively challenging the government's false narrative and running scared of the whole issue.