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I never imagined that I would ever watch a British PM say he was pulling the UK out of the ECHR because it was now in contravention of ECHR rulings, all so they could deport asylum seekers to Rwanda
It’s just beyond reason
That’s how far down Johnson, the ERG and the Faragists have dragged this country in the last 6 years
It terrifies me thinking about where they’ll get us to before they’re done.
Unfortunately there is a rump of the electorate who are absolutely loving this!
I am truly ashamed to be British today
I can’t pretend that this thought was my own…
https://twitter.com/frankieboyle/status/1536642947751583744?s=20&t=5nma6UXVX5-Oi9s5pyHv3g
…but he is so right.
This opinion piece from five years ago is worth a quick read:
Grenfell shows just how Britain fails migrants
On the north Kensington streets, the truth of multicultural London is apparent – there is no cheaper life than that of a poor refugee
[ apologies if this feels like a side step - but the link is very real ]
There may be a chance we don’t go down this path engineered by the nasty party. Fingers crossed.
I am truly ashamed to be British today
Not the first time I’ve heard this today.
In the latest development Johnson is now suggesting that The UK could leave the European Convention on Human Rights
Is this the ECHR that we help set up?
Not seen much mention in the press of this being a reciprocal agreement.
No one will ever be sent there as the courts will stop them it being clearly illegal under international law
Maybe it needs double quoting now. It’s ageing just fine and I still think it will hold.
Imagine being expected to enact this policy. Wait till the pilot refuses to fly the plane. I wonder if the home office have that in their final final contingency planning.
Last minute injunction from the ECHR.
Proves gov.uk intended to break the human rights convention and Boris is on record saying he doesn’t care. Dark days, I wonder if the backbenchers are stirring again.
Now what…?
The public battle that the government want. To show that it’s them against the do-gooder lawyers. Bonus points for the battle involving foreign sounding courts. Certain papers are about to back Johnson like never before… this will be Brexit 2.0 for them… and him.
Just popped onto the Daily Fail Facebook page to see how the good folk of Britain are taking the news…good grief!
Why can’t these rabid and foul excuses for British people write and spell in their own language?
Dirty nasty people. Urgh.
ransos
Free Member
Last minute injunction from the ECHR
Sorry if already covered but I thought the ECHR had no jurisdiction in this matter?
To be clear I'm delighted the flight is not going ahead but as mentioned the government actively want this fight so it's a win, win for them...
The ECHR regularly passes judgements on matters concerning asylum seekers. It has in recent times condemned the treatment of asylum seekers by France, Bulgaria, Denmark, Hungary, Spain, and Italy, to name a few.
How effective ECHR condemnations of ill-treatment of those fleeing wars and persecution is at stopping illegal practices is another matter:
And for example Italy was found guilty by the ECHR of illegal pushbacks of asylum seekers 10 years ago but still allegedly engages in the practice.
The public battle that the government want. To show that it’s them against the do-gooder lawyers. Bonus points for the battle involving foreign sounding courts. Certain papers are about to back Johnson like never before… this will be Brexit 2.0 for them… and him.
The Mail are going with the angle that what Johnson and co want to do is the humane option and that the 'Euro' courts are the basty ones in all of this.
Sadly a large majority of their readers will believe it.
Yeah - the narrative is going 100% to plan for the Tories so far: its those pesky Europeans meddling in our affairs, preventing us from taking back control of our borders.
Now, if there was any way to link it back to house prices/rail strikes..... maybe Abu Hamza?
To be honest Rwanda doesn't sound too bad. Hardly the third world hell hole that some have painted it as.
Appreciate it is a difficult situation, but can anyone answer the following questions?
If these are genuine refugees, fleeing war, famine, terror or oppression, then why are many not attempting to settle in France or any of the other safe European countries that they will have passed through to get to the French coast. Why risk a very dangerous and expensive channel crossing to get to the UK?
and,
What exactly should we do with illegal immigrants if they cannot be deported?
We can still deport illegal immigrants, we just won't be deporting the legal ones too
If these are genuine refugees, fleeing war, famine, terror or oppression, then why are many not attempting to settle in France
There's no requirement for any refugee to accept settlement in any country other than which ever they choose. The Dublin Agreement makes it possible for some EU countries to return some people to another EU country for settlement under some circumstances. Why not France specifically? Because mostly it's a pretty inhospitable country for immigration and refugees alike, if you are for instance; not white, European, or wealthy.
Why risk a very dangerous and expensive channel crossing to get to the UK?
Because successive UK govts have all but eliminated all the safe and legal means for refugees to otherwise come to the UK. Most are fleeing from places like Syria and Afghanistan, and flights from nearby countries are (by comparison) cheap and fast, there's a reason people are not using those routes to try to come here.
What exactly should we do with illegal immigrants if they cannot be deported?
Why is their status that of illegal? I agree we should have rules about who should come here, we don't want convicted criminals, but lots of these folks have qualifications that mean they'll contribute overall to our economy. The difference between how we treat folks fleeing conflict in Ukraine,and how we treat those fleeing conflict in Syria couldn't be more black and white.
See here
Christ. That's like reading a GCSE geography report!
Why risk a very dangerous and expensive channel crossing to get to the UK?
Because they already know people here? Have family here? Don't know any better? Have already paid for their "ticket" to get here?
Where are these people being sent to? I assume they don't just land open the door and say "off you pop". Does UK immigration have a facility there that is staffed at least in part by UK staff to allow processing? It could be an absolute hell hole if it's effectively a Rwandan holding facility built on a budget probably by a UK based firm with a CEO affiliated to the Tories.
It could be an absolute hell hole if it’s effectively a Rwandan holding facility
I think the resettlement facilities are run by the Rwandan govt. I don't think it's a hell-hole, but neither is it Butlins.
If these are genuine refugees, fleeing war, famine, terror or oppression, then why are many not attempting to settle in France or any of the other safe European countries that they will have passed through to get to the French coast. Why risk a very dangerous and expensive channel crossing to get to the UK?
The vast majority do seek asylum elsewhere in Europe - the number we get is a very small proportion.
The real gem is that people fleeing persecution in Rwanda - which has a poor record with political opposition - could get deported back there under this scheme.
Sky News skewered Zahawi, the education minister, by asking him how his life might have been different if his family had been sent to Rwanda when they fled Iraq.....
Anyway, I read somewhere that the government hasn't removed the EU legislation about compensation for cancelled flights, so we owe these people £500 each 😎
What exactly should we do with illegal immigrants if they cannot be deported?
It is strange that so many people should be so ignorant of a topic which it is claimed is foremost on people's minds.
The UK can and does regularly deport those who are deemed to be "illegal immigrants". Those deported to Jamaica are just one example:
But this of course has absolutely nothing to do with deportations to Rwanda.
The government is not pretending that those whom they are attempting to deport to Rwanda are anything other than refugees fleeing war and persecution and seeking asylum.
Instead of researching what a great life it is in Rwanda for expats it might be my useful to research what exactly the issue is?
Does UK immigration have a facility there that is staffed at least in part by UK staff to allow processing?
Why would it? Once they get to Rwanda, they’re applying for asylum in Rwanda.
How many times have they repeated the “frustrated by foreign judges” line on Radio4’s Today Programme this morning? Sounds like a stuck record.
This will be a good excuse for this govt to withdraw from ECHR.
This will be a good excuse for this govt to withdraw from ECHR.
As already pointed out, putting our government on a par with the Greek junta and, er, Putin.
Edit - and while lots of Little Englanders will be convinced this is the right thing to do, they are gonna be in for a shock when they realise what that does to their own human rights and access to justice.
Any likelehood of planning on leaving the ECHR provoking Tory backbenchers into changing their rules to have another vote of confidence, such as May was threatened with?
it might be my useful to research what exactly the issue is?
Given that the government are simultaneously paying people to house European refugees fleeing war and deporting to another country middle eastern and Asian people also fleeing war, it's pretty clear what the issue is
The government is not pretending that those whom they are attempting to deport to Rwanda are anything other than refugees fleeing war and persecution and seeking asylum.
Rwanda is now considered a safe country, free from war, persecution etc? So if war and persecution is indeed what you are fleeing, then you'd be fairly happy there right?
and while lots of Little Englanders will be convinced this is the right thing to do, they are gonna be in for a shock when they realise what that does to their own human rights and access to justice.
But the issue is the shock will only be theirs,most numpties are happy to have rights removed from other people 🙂
So if war and persecution is indeed what you are fleeing, then you’d be fairly happy there right?
So why isn't the government sending Ukrainian refugees there? Why doesn't their compassion extend to Ukrainians?
And you do realise that the government is arguing that deporting asylum seekers to Rwanda will be so goddamn awful for them that they won't be attracted to coming to the UK, don't you?
And you do realise that the government is arguing that deporting asylum seekers to Rwanda will be so goddamn awful for them that they won’t be attracted to coming to the UK, don’t you?
They always have the option to claim asylum in France or any other safe country they pass through on route to the UK.
Why don’t you want them here?
Iirc every single asylum seeker that comes here from Rwandan has had their claim upheld, which rather undermines the governments 'position'
Have to agree that the government more than happy for this to dominate the headlines especially now that there's the ECHR to blame- irony lost on those that don't realise that ECHR set up to make sure that 'Never Again' would we see things like forced deportations of a group dehumanised by populists for political scapegoating. And of course it was set up by Winston Churchill- one of his greatest legacies under attack from those obsessed with 'saving' his statues
Besides the legal/ethical debate. The level of incompetence and mismanagement of the scheme is sobering. Apparently, the cancelled charter flight amounts to 0.5 million and we are paying Rwanda £120mill for their end of it.
And you do realise that the government is arguing that deporting asylum seekers to Rwanda will be so goddamn awful for them that they won’t be attracted to coming to the UK, don’t you?
It's such a ridiculous, self-owning argument.
Plus the fact that the return flight, if it eventually happens, will have 10x more Rwandan refugees than our deportees. Which part of this 'Rwandan paradise' are they fleeing from? It will be impossible for their asylum claims to succeed without destroying the whole idea that Rwanda is a safe place to traffic human beings to.
And now Boris is threatening to withdraw from ECHR. His legacy, tearing up one of the better things that his supposed hero, Churchill, achieved.*
*Churchill is only his hero for the purposes of creating his fake, political image. There is nothing remotely Churchillian about the man aside from the racism.
Why don’t you want them here?
Think that's fairly obvious.
Why don’t you want them here?
Think that’s fairly obvious.
Is it?
It's utterly shameful behaviour from our government, and the goal is simply to criminalise Asylum seekers (or more generally foreigners), full stop. They can spin it and obfuscate as much as they like, but every Tory MP, party member and Little Englander knows what these "reforms" are about... last night's ruling is far from the end of it, the money and resources expended on court battles, chartered flights and Rwandan "Processing centres" would have been far better expended on some UK offshore Asylum application offices. A handful of staff and an office in Calais would do much more to disrupt people smugglers overloading up Dinghies in the Channel than this shit show...
The line that Rwandan deportations will somehow deter people smugglers must now require a bit of mental gymnastics to keep the golden thread of "logic" alive for the faithful. It's bollocks, it's another culture war tool to deter all foreigners from our blessed shores. First by turning "asylum" into a dirty word then by actively legislating against those seeking it and punishing them.
By effectively closing down legal routes for people outside the UK to apply, we've driven them into the hands of the smugglers, by criminalising Asylum seekers for making an "illegal" entry to blighty and then making the default sentence a one way flight to Rwanda, we've finally proven to the world that the UK is home to pernicious bastards and nothing more.
Thérèse Coffey's half arsed assurance (on R4) that we're not leaving the ECHR didn't fill me with confidence either.
We already know international legal agreements, accords and memberships are there to be torn up...
Funny how quiet Priti is this morning innit? Still if you're going to nail your colours to a failed Australian policy, you should expect to have to dodge the press a bit...
Is it?
You tell us.
And welcome back to the forum. How long you staying for?
Is it?
seems that way to me, but why don't you tell everyone why you don't want them to come to the UK?
seems that way to me, but why don’t you tell everyone why you don’t want them to come to the UK?
Seems what way to you?
This is not my post nor anything to do with me or my views, so don’t shoot the messenger. I read it on FB & it’s from a haulier in NE England.
I really have offended a lot of people with my Rwanda post. but as a haulier who has lost tens of thousands of pounds in damage to goods & trailers, paid unjust fines to border force even though we have been the victims of organised crime and people trafficking, smashed windscreens, terrified drivers, threatened with weapons and violence driving through fires and downed trees and blockades just to try and get from Calais back into the Uk safely. Holes cut in roofs of trailers, rear trailer doors damaged multiple times, duct taping themselves to axles. All these people who comment negatively against me have never been effected directly other than to feel sorry for them, they have not seen the real story. young fighting age males with iPhones and designers clothes. Hardly any woman and children. When they get to the UK illegally they can not work so a lot of them turn to crime to find income. They drain our economy & benefit system dry, I have sympathy for genuine refugees and they deserve the UK’s help, Regardless of skin colour, religious beliefs, birthplace or culture. We recently sent a trailer of humanitarian aid to help the Ukrainian refugees.
But to drive through a 100+ mob of young males throwing bricks at 2am in the morning in Calais trying to get to the ferry is one of the most frightening experiences you can ever have.
Refugees need our help.
Economic Migrants who are Young Fighting Age Males with Iphones and designer clothes need to go to Rwanda.
If you don’t like this please unfollow the page.
I don’t know what his original post said.
Does he have a point?
My son works for a haulier in Durham but not as a driver, this stuff happens to his drivers too.