You really really seem to hate these guys. And anyone who dares to represent them.
Not at all. They seem like really lovely, charming young men.
As for their first lawyer - who’s social media campaign was off the ground before the female officer they'd punched in the face had chance to wipe the blood from her broken nose - he seems like a fine, upstanding pillar of the legal profession.
In other and I’m sure completely unrelated news:
…. some whataboutery?
Well, their new lawyer is a well respected human rights lawyer and not what anyone would describe as a chancery.
If the fact that two women (who also happen to be police officers) got punched in the face is clouding your judgement and making you go a bit daily mail comments section then that's one thing.
If I were you I'd be careful about what I said and about who in this particular thread. Otherwise people might get the wrong idea.
I
In other and I’m sure completely unrelated news:
Police are recruited from society. Society has racists and some will join the police, who at some point will be exposed and dealt with. I'm encouraged by that
clearly trying to find any angle to exploit, to stop the two pond life lads going to prison for a long time. If new lawyer can muddy the waters enough to reach some kind of deal then they will see that as a success. There was nothing "Cynical" about leaking the additional CCTV, it's factual footage and exactly where they started from too. The "leaked" additional footage probably stopped riots developing in several UK cities.
Well, their new lawyer is a well respected human rights lawyer and not what anyone would describe as a chancery.
He may be a well respected human rights lawyer, but he’s never off the news up in Scotland. He clearly recognises the value of publicity.
If this had been two of the EDL guys in Stockport do you think a few on here would be defending them so hard and querying everythin the police did so much?
Party A is claiming Party B breached his human rights by kicking him in the head.
Only after Party A had breached Party B’s and Party C’s human rights by punching them repeatedly in the face. Also after Party A has violently assaulted Party Unknown in Starbucks.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Party A made his bed, and he should have the balls to lie in it.
Also after Party A has violently assaulted Party Unknown in Starbucks.
Surely if nothing else this case has highlighted the importance of not coming to conclusions without knowing all the facts?
Where is your evidence concerning who violently assaulted who in Starbucks? And as far as I am aware the other party are not "unknown". It would appear that they were arrested and released on police bail, which suggests a possible level culpability.
Seriously, haven't recent events at Manchester airport and Southport emphasised that we should be aware of all the facts before deciding who is guilty?
I honestly think the sight of two white women (who also happen to be police officers) getting punched viciously by an Asian man is messing with people's heads and some people are saying things they wouldn't normally say.
It's understandable because it's one of those things that is going to trigger an instinctive reaction that most people aren't used to but I think it's worth thinking very carefully about what we're feeling and then taking a step back and examining those feelings.
Anyone who says they aren't racist is either lying or simply hasn't spent enough time questioning their own reactions. I have plenty instinctive racist reactions, including to this incident, but I always try to take a step back and examine my feelings before jumping in.
I understand what I just said is really going to piss people off but I think it needed saying.
I absolutely understand that being a police officer is an incredibly tough job with incredible pressure to get everything right. However, I can also imagine that being Asian in a city where the police force has been described as institutionally racist also can't be particularly easy.
I think a bit of patience and understanding all round is needed until the complete story comes out. Until then, I really think this thread should be closed because there's a real risk of some people saying things they wouldn't normally say and regreting it.
I honestly think the sight of two white women (who also happen to be police officers) getting punched viciously by an Asian man is messing with people’s heads and some people are saying things they wouldn’t normally say.
They were on duty, police officers who happen to be 'white women', i think people are reacting to the level of violence straight off the bat with this incident, the police go and try to arrest the man at the machine, within 3 seconds the second man is throwing full blooded punches at everyone, people seem to be ignoring this fact, you have someone who has so much disregard for the law they're doing that even though they weren't the ones being arrested.
I honestly think the sight of two white women (who also happen to be police officers) getting punched viciously by an Asian man is messing with people’s heads and some people are saying things they wouldn’t normally say.
I don't think it's (just) this.
There is a completely non-racial issue of people breaking the law and then demanding (and gaining) protection from it.
We're lucky that we live in a society where all are protected by the law, and as we see in this case that includes the police who will be held to account for their actions. The difficulty is that the many criminals frequently and regularly break the law but are not held to account for all their actions.
That creates a very deep reaction in people who believe strongly in justice and I wouldn't want to confuse that reaction with racism.
I'm sorry, but my opinion of somebody who's reaction to being arrested is to start throwing haymakers into the faces of the police, including female officers, is going to be exactly the same irrespective of their colour. Its a total irrelevence.
They're exactly the same as the EDL idiots throwing bricks at the police, in my opinion. Just violent thugs, with a complete disrespect for the law. Colour doesn't come into it.
In fact the only reason racism, real or imagined, is an issue at all is because an oily lawyer tried to make it an issue by presenting a completely disingenous and heavily loaded set of 'facts' in the form of a very selelectively editted video to deliberatly provoke exactly the reaction it got
I can also imagine that being Asian in a city where the police force has been described as institutionally racist also can’t be particularly easy
There is racism in GMP, I don't think that's denied because it exists in society. Institutional racism is another thing all together and its eradication in policing has been worked on since the 1981 report by Lord Scarman.
In the 21st century, schools are more likely to show institutional racism in relation to, for example, dress codes and hairstyle policies, than policing
If this had been two of the EDL guys in Stockport do you think a few on here would be defending them so hard and querying everythin the police did so much?
Of course not. In fact, one forumite posted some "heavy handed" policing of one of Yaxley-Lennon's supporters being mobbed because he found it amusing...
Institutional racism is another thing all together and its eradication in policing has been worked on since the 1981 report by Lord Scarman.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-67542596
There's this. Then there's the recent suspensions due to racism in the GMP. This could be a sign that they are tackling the problem but it isn't a sign that they have fixed the problem.
I'm not sure if a bunch of white middle class people judging the reactions of young Asian people who have grown up being 'policed' by the GMP is a good look. Neither is claiming to know race has nothing to do with it.
At this time we know very little.
I’m not sure if a bunch of white middle class people judging the reactions of young Asian people who have grown up being ‘policed’ by the GMP is a good look. Neither is claiming to know race has nothing to do with it.
You're now making huge assumptions on how they've grown up and the society around them, the initial attack on the police, who were in uniform and clearly police, was an offensive attack by a third party to the arrest, this wasn't a defensive attack, it wasn't fight or flight, it was an individual attacking police officers without warning, then the first suspect did the same the instant his brother got involved.
And by the way, if you watch the video, the first person to throw a punch was the male police officer.
Or at least that's what it looks like to me.
But I'll wait until I see everything before jumping to conclusions.
I’m sorry, but my opinion of somebody who’s reaction to being arrested is to start throwing haymakers into the faces of the police, including female officers, is going to be exactly the same irrespective of their colour. Its a total irrelevence.
Probably worthy of another thread of its own but has anyone on here been arrested by the Police? Me and my mates were when we were young, for fighting with another bunch of lads when we were about 19. We were pretty far away from thinking about fighting the police, we were just terrified what our dads would say. Let out in the morning with no charge.
In fact, one forumite posted some “heavy handed” policing of one of Yaxley-Lennon’s supporters being mobbed because he found it amusing…
That was me. Although satisfying rather than amusing is how I would describe it.
I did find the dopey geezer taunting the police before being hit with bricks in the chest, back of the head, and bollocks, highly amusing though. In fact hilarious!
judging the reactions
No, it is never acceptable to react to a situation with physical violence, in almost any context.
It's also never acceptable to be racist.
Both are true and both equally required to maintain a civilised society.
If you think it is OK to throw punches then you're going to struggle to be accepted into society and why there are prison sentences for violent behaviour. Objecting to that violent behaviour has nothing to do with race.
How do you know he was deserving of such treatment? You don't, you just assumed he was...
No, it is never acceptable to react to a situation with physical violence, in almost any context.
So because the police officer was the first to throw a punch he should be the one in prison?
Again, what it looks like to me from the video.
But maybe we should wait for the whole story?
How do you know he was deserving of such treatment? You don’t, you just assumed he was…
He probably didn't deserve it. It's still hilarious though.
The dopey git was standing there with bricks flying in every direction taunting the old bill, in full riot gear, by gyrating his hips just inches away from them. Getting hit by three bricks in quick succession was pure comedy.
There’s this.
A leading equality advisor who is using the term wrongly
Then there’s the recent suspensions due to racism in the GMP.
Racism isn't the same as "institutionally racist"
This could be a sign that they are tackling the problem but it isn’t a sign that they have fixed the problem.
I applied to join the police in 1981, before Lord Scarman published his report. Institutional racism existed then, as did racism. Some forces, e.g. City of London insisted on male officers being a minimum of 6' tall, others were 5'10"
That's an example of institutional racism, how many people of a SE Asian background could fulfill those criteria?
Have you ever wondered why explanatory leaflets are available in any language you choose? That's another example
It's interesting how allegations of institutional racism in a case that allegedly started with a racist assault on an older woman is whataboutery but comparisons with the EDL are totally fine and valid.
The EDL are travelling to take part in racist demonstrations and to attack mosques plus whatever else they can find.
These guys travelled to the airport to pick up their mum where they found she'd been assaulted by a racist (allegedly).
Then a policeman punched one of them in the face after failing to handcuff the other (maybe).
I really really suggest everyone holds off on the nuclear hot takes for a while.
So because the police officer was the first to throw a punch he should be the one in prison?
Yes! And that would be the law working if a trial considered all the facts and came to that result. And it would be working fairly if others involved in physical violence in the same incident also got convicted.
This incident creates a strong, even visceral reaction because people feel that the law is (or could be) applied differently. The police are held to higher standard so the police officer is more likely to get the conviction. That is why people perceive this as unfair. Nothing to do with race.
~Edit - trail / trial
Yes! And that would be the law working if a trail considered all the facts and came to that result
Right, so let's leave all the hot takes and opinions expressed as facts until the investigation is finished and all the evidence comes to light.
You seem very keen to dismiss her allegations
She's using the term wrongly. Google it.
Have to admit it was funny.
What isnt funny is the way this thread has been 'reopened' in light of whats happened in Southprt. Seems to be conflating the two when neither are related to one another.
Right, so let’s leave all the hot takes and opinions expressed as facts
And that includes baselessly accusing people of racism 🙂
Yes, brick-boy was hilarious but I was referring to the man in the picture posted by Ernie. Many people seem convinced he's a wrong'un with no actual evidence to back it up but are also convinced the copper at the airport was out of order based on a very selective amount of evidence. The double standards being displayed in this thread are disturbing.
was referring to the man in the picture posted by Ernie. Many people seem convinced he’s a wrong’un
Who made that claim? I have no idea what he was being arrested for, or if he was even charged.
I posted the clip to highlight the heavy handed way that the Met sometimes carries out public order arrests. It looked like a huge pile on/scrum
I posted it for the entertainment value of seeing a Tommy Robinson supporter get arrested.
So that’s not assuming he’s a wrong’un? You just gained satisfaction from seeing someone with opposing views to you getting piled on? Nice.
based on a very selective amount of evidence
Just so Im clear. Was that the 'selective' evidence of a bloke lying prone on the floor and a police officer running up and booting him in the head before stamping on it ?
I wouldn't want to think my interpretation of the multiple camera angles was wrong.
Seems to be two threads in one here: is this the airport parking meter one or brick in the goolies?
Just so Im clear. Was that the ‘selective’ evidence of a bloke lying prone on the floor and a police officer running up and booting him in the head before stamping on it ?
From the first video released by the 'victims' family/lawyer, where the angle and timing just show the officer just putting a boot in.
You then see the lead up to the incident and it changes the perspective completely, the 'victims' brother grabs the male officer and starts to move him away, not sure who throws the 'first punch', but the initiating event was the brother grabbing the officer.
You then see a melee, a female officer deploys the tazer, the male breaks free and then does the kick, why, i haven't a clue, was it adrenaline, was it to keep the suspect down with removal of the tazer, that'll be up to the investigation, i dare say body cameras and sound will assist with this one.
Again, look back to my early responses on just the first video, i was against the officers actions and didn't think there could be justification, i was wrong, that second video, i just didn't expect two brothers to go full offensive on armed police officers, in a major security area (international airport!), what the hell did they expect the outcome would be, home for tea with dear old mum after smashing two female and one male PC?!
So that’s not assuming he’s a wrong’un? You just gained satisfaction from seeing someone with opposing views to you getting piled on? Nice.
Well it is obviously not simply because EDL supporters have "opposing views". Having opposing views is clearly not the problem.
However as well as having opposing views EDL supporters are infamous for their widely reported street violence. Yes I derive satisfaction from seeing EDL supporters getting arrested, why would I not? I don't believe that they should go around causing damage and assaulting people, which is the whole point of their "protests", with impunity.
The clip was to highlight the Met's heavy-handedness when making arrests in public order situations, they don't mess about. I can't comment on the guilt of the individual though.
Seems to be two threads in one here: is this the airport parking meter one or brick in the goolies?
It's the airport parking meter one. It got sidetracked because I posted a clip of the Met's sometimes heavy-handedness when arresting people which they suspect of violence or public order offences, and someone took exception to that.
But I’ll wait until I see everything before jumping to conclusions.
I keep seeing Brucewee saying this and then cracking on jumping to conclusions about the incident itself, and posters on here.
I keep seeing Brucewee saying this and then cracking on jumping to conclusions about the incident itself, and posters on here.
Feel free to post where I'm doing this.
The main view I'm challenging is all the definitive statements where people state with absolute conviction that none of this has anything to do with racism.
We have no way of knowing that at this point and I find a group of white people aggressively trying to push this narrative is not a good look.
If I've made any definitive statements about anything I think happened then please quote them because I'm quite happy to admit that I, along with every other contributor on this thread, do not know the whole story about what happened.
Bruce you seem to be hell bent on pushing your own narrative of these events despite that narrative being at odds with most other people's views of the same evidence. It's beginning to feel like you're trying to provoke a reaction.
The main view I’m challenging is all the definitive statements where people state with absolute conviction that none of this has anything to do with racism.
From the video, 3 police officers are being directed to one individual, who they try to arrest, i'm not sure where the racism is in this, i could understand if this was a random stop, or picking him out of a crowd, but this was 3 police officers, looking very much like they knew the person they needed to detain.
It'll come out later i guess, the reason on why the police were trying to detain him, whatever was said whilst trying to arrest him and the aftermath, again, it could all change, but at this point, i see racist motives being quite a big stretch for how this all happened.
