the best you can have is Starmer, deal with it.
No thanks, I’ll be voting snp
You lot really don’t get it do you, nobody apart from a few really care about policy detail, apart from the far left.
Again with this far left rubbish. What are the far left policies? You have repeatedly failed to answer this despite apparently being clued up enough about policy detail to understand what is and isnt far left.
Even if Starmers economic policies were identical to the Tories* we’d still be better off as at least the culture war would stop and we could get back to moving painfully slowly towards a more tolerant society
Sorry you are going to need to elaborate here on how you make this leap to "culture war" would stop.
An increase in extreme policies would be required in that situation in order to continue distinguishing yourself from your opponent (unless you do a reverse republican southern strategy).
Its also somewhat unclear how this would lead back to a more tolerant society. Could you elaborate on how you would see this working?
and even if they did sneak into power the electorate and populist politicians would soon have them out.
These populist politicians? Has it not crossed your mind there is a reason they can get a foothold? That when offered with more of the same people gamble with something radical?
Its not difficult you only need to look at why people voted brexit ffs.
the best you can have is Starmer, deal with it.
Ah the classic cry of the centre right.
It would be funny if you lot didnt keep doubling down on the same mistakes and continuing to wreck the country.
I would have hoped after brexit that there would have been a glimmer of that the policy of "who else will they vote for" isnt a great one but apparently not.
Ok who should we vote for that can replace the Tories?
If you can answer that I might start listening but everything above is just mad person shouting at buses for all the good it will do.
If you can answer that I might start listening but everything above is just mad person shouting at buses for all the good it will do.
As always the centre right resort to insults and demands that their inane questions be answered whilst ignoring anything addressed to them.
The problem with the centre rights newly found cry (why is it the right need simplistic slogans?) of "replace the tories" is it is just that new found and only when Starmer started offering policies to attract those who had handed their own party to the loons.
It isnt a difficult concept.
If he wants votes then he needs to appeal to everyone and not just the centre right since their policies are the ones which have ****ed the country and set the ground for the hard right.
If he wants votes then he needs to appeal to everyone and not just the centre right
You’re going to have quite a shock when you see the polling.
It’s not like the glory days of Comrade Jezza and his heroic -25, but you know… it’ll have to do 😂
inane questions
Who should I vote for to make the country a better place is an inane question!!!!!
Good grief, no wonder people disengage if thats all youve got.
even biden thinks hes an idiot
https://twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1746261294515175801?t=br5f6Ojx8Hz-3kQ8Du6QDA&s=19
Shapps ‘watch this space’ comment was almost as cringeworthy in its crass David Brentness as Gavin Williamson telling Russia to ‘shut up and go away’
We really have had some highly skilled and intelligent Defence Secretaries with this shower, haven’t we?
I really can’t wait to see the back of the lot of ‘em. Not long now…
Ok who should we vote for that can replace the Tories?
It's not a question beating the Tories. It's not a football game.
It's about registering your opinion. Like the Reform voters are doing. They have no chance of 'winning' but their bullshit is what is driving the Tories to the right and consequently Labour.
My advice would be to read the manifestos and vote for the party/candidate whose policies most closely align with your own views.
Crazy idea, I know.
And yes, you won't get the warm fuzzy feeling of 'beating' anyone but you will have done your own tiny insignificant part to move the country to more closely align with your views.
As I've said many times, voting for a rightwardly shifting Labour party is going to be worse for the country in the long run than voting for parties who you fundamentally agree with.
It’s not a question beating the Tories. It’s not a football game.
I agree, it's an odd comparison as it's infinitely more important.
It’s about registering your opinion. Like the Reform voters are doing. They have no chance of ‘winning’ but their bullshit is what is driving the Tories to the right and consequently Labour.
I registered my opinion twice in the last 2 elections and we still have a Tory government. Opinions on here are 10 a penny, GE day is the only day they count.
My advice would be to read the manifestos and vote for the party/candidate whose policies most closely align with your own views.
I agree, when mixed in with a dose of the reality we are living in and might live in for another *5 years*, God forbid.
As I’ve said many times, voting for a rightwardly shifting Labour party is going to be worse for the country in the long run than voting for parties who you fundamentally agree with.
6 to 10 years from now will have to look after itself im afraid. Time is not a luxury we have.
I'm concerned about the next 5 years not adding to the last 14.
As I said, I'm not looking to change your mind but the counterpoint must be made.
the best you can have is Starmer, deal with it.
So we are not allowed to discuss how we feel it could be much better than that, on a discussion forum?
The best we could have had was Starmer a few years ago before he threw pretty much everything out and became a tory. As some have said, the policy details don't matter as nobody reads them, so why did Starmer feel he needed to throw everything out to beat someone who was clearly losing on their own. Isn't that the best opportunity you have to get elected with the policies you seemed to stand for a couple of years ago?
so why did Starmer feel he needed to throw everything out to beat someone who was clearly losing on their own. Isn’t that the best opportunity you have to get elected with the policies you seemed to stand for a couple of years ago?
Apologies as I know you aren't quoting me before stating the above. This is just my opinion as it's all I have.
Ideally I'd love to have a leader similar to Corbyn. I really did vote for him twice. I'm genuinely sad to say that on both occasions I knew he wouldn't win. The media and general perception had undermined him to the degree I knew it was a lost cause. Still, he had the best chance of any party in my area of ridding me/ us of our Tory MP so I was glad to align my pragmatism with my ideals and I would do so again.
Now? I see myself as part of a coalition. I dont necessarily agree with every ideal of those that vote Labour/LibDem /Green/SNP but I see those votes as broadly aligning with my own.
I only have one significant difference with some of them; Those that vote according to impeccable and rigid ideals to the point of facilitating yet another 5 years of Tory governance. I understand the notion but I'll never agree with it.
Ideals are important but a malignant entity such at the Tory party thrives upon them and vomites them back at us.
So...
I'll preserve my ideals where they hold up to reality and temper them when a coalition of broadly aligned people is so desperately needed.
This is such a time.
Ideally I’d love to have a leader similar to Corbyn. I really did vote for him twice. I’m genuinely sad to say that on both occasions I knew he wouldn’t win. The media and general perception had undermined him to the degree I knew it was a lost cause.
So did I but it was lost votes that helped to return a Tory in my area and did nothing to drag the labour party to a realisation that the policies he was espousing were going to lead to government in future, if anything showed that the opposite was true. If a different leader / same policies offer was made would the experiment return a different result - maybe, but another 5+ years of what this lot are doing is a lot to risk on it.
Nobody wants radio or chemotherapy, it's long, painful, and will leave you vomiting, blistered and bald. But when the option is cancer there's no point refusing it because you wish there was another choice. This lot are a cancer on the country and whether you want Starmer and Labour or not, it's the treatment on offer right now.
To those that say their conscience won't let them, or their conscience is such that they have to vote for another party more aligned to their views. I admire your convictions, but I'll be wanting words with your conscience if it returns another 5 years of this. Ask it if it will wake up on the day after the GE and be OK with the outcome.
The best we could have had was Starmer a few years ago before he threw pretty much everything out and became a tory
Well, quite. I felt that centre left policies combined with competent leadership was a powerful combination which is why I and thousands like me supported Starmer, having previously supported Corbyn. An inconvenient fact our resident man child likes to forget.
That Starmer has ditched virtually every promise he made is why I shan't be voting for him.
6 to 10 years from now will have to look after itself im afraid. Time is not a luxury we have.
This is a very dangerous way to think.
Do you honestly believe that 5 years of Tory rule will lead to the UK looking like Sudan or Somalia? I would assume you don't, so how bad do you see the UK being in 5 years if the Tories get in again? Italy? Hungary?
There's a lot of unhelpful hyperbole around this issue so where exactly do you see the UK sitting on the Human Development Index after another 5 years of Tory rule?
“Tories… not turning the UK into Somalia”
Great. Personally, I want them out and our downward slide, that’s obvious to the rest of the world, beginning to be reversed. If you don’t, fair enough. And we understand your “long game” reasoning, we’re just not prepared to see the UK further wrecked while we wait. Improve the situation we’re in… and keep pressing for better and better. The whole “burn it down so we have to rebuild” doesn’t take enough account of all the good people that’ll suffer the burns on the way for me to get onboard.
Get the Tories out.
After that, battle for more.
The tories will lose the next election, using "get the tories out" as an excuse for labour right wing policies is just that, an excuse. There is now no longer any reason to play the game by adopting the tory narrative unless you actually believe that narrative.
We currently have a once in a generation opportunity to bring in a transformational change in the political direction the country is heading, unfortunately that looks like it will be thrown away by adhering to the same thinking and rules that have already failed. Now more than ever is the UK ready to be shown why the current economic landscape has failed them, because they can see and feel it every month as their paycheck barely covers their costs, they can see the failure every day in their lives and on the news.
As for the culture war, that will also only be won by transforming economic inequality, give people hope that they can actually have economic rights, choices and freedoms, rather than spending lives afraid of bills and insecure jobs that barely pay a living wage, and then the populists will have less of a hook to bait them with hate.
The election isn’t yet won. Anyone who votes or abstains on the assumption that it already is hasn’t paid attention to election (and referendum) votes in the UK. That complacency of leaving it to everyone else to tick the box to achieve a positive result will be shared by millions. The Tories will be praying that there is enough if you that stay home, or vote to make a point not choose your MP under our voting system. They’ll be pushing to get the highly motivated right wing vote out, and hoping everyone else sees it as a done deal that they can sit out, either by not dirtying their hands supporting a candidate that doesn’t match their wants and dreams 100% or not bothering at all. It really isn’t over ‘till after Election Day. And this isn’t a pro Labour angle. If I was in a LibDem/Tory marginal I’d be doing whatever I could to get the LibDem candidate elected, even if disappointed in their current leader and some key policies.
Anyone who votes on the assumption that it already is hasn’t paid attention to election (and referendum) votes in the UK.
It is the centrists who ignored the results, or rather the reasons for the results. The prefer to smugly blame the disenfranchised, call them stupid and racist, rather than see that they have suffered decades of financial inequality with little hope of change. And now when we have a real opportunity to change, you want them to continue living on their knees, because only the name of the party that implements neoliberal policies matters, not the actual policies.
Anyone who votes on the assumption that it already is hasn’t paid attention to election (and referendum) votes in the UK.
Don’t be coming round here with your cold harsh reality
We only do lefty middle-class self-indulgence idealogical purity 😉
Meanwhile, back in the real world…
Sunak ‘dodging scrutiny’ by failing to appoint chair of Climate Change Committee
We only do lefty middle class self indulgence idealogical purity
True, you have been very supportive of purging progressive voices from the labour party. Like the other free speech idealists Trump and Musk, you only want free speech you agree with.
Eh? Not being overly melodramatic there eh fella? Are you being repressed? Come and see the violence inherent in the system….
Anyway… you’ll have to excuse me… I’m off out to spend the morning delivering Labour Party general election leaflets. You know.. to see if we can actually get rid of the ****ing Tories! Ciao!
And now when we have a real opportunity to change, you want them to continue living on their knees
Er… if you say so. If I lived in the only English seat that is (or is close to) a Labour/Green marginal, then I’d be in more of a quandary. I’ve donated to Lucas’ campaign funds at every election she’s stood in, she’s been a great MP. She’ll be missed. But as it is, for me and people in nearly every seat in England, the choice is simple… group around and support the Labour or LibDem candidate most likely to defeat and keep the Tories out, or split or reduce the vote and help gift them another seat.
Point of order – it was just a standard European social democratic position. Nothing far left about it.
+1
Corbyn may have ended up toxic with voters but that doesn't somehow make his policies far left. That isn't to say you should or should not avoid labour because they've swung away from that position, but it is important to call it out when someone spouts a false equivalence. It would be just as important if someone was claiming the current Tory policies are moderate, for example.
so how bad do you see the UK being in 5 years if the Tories get in again?
5 more years of the tories will look much the same as it does today. 5 years of Starmer’s Labour Party will also look much the same as it does today. No one is offering an alternative to the neo-liberal austerity driven status quo so thinking anything will be different is just a wishful thinking fantasy.
And now when we have a real opportunity to change, you want them to continue living on their knees, because only the name of the party that implements neoliberal policies matters, not the actual policies.
How do we do that then?
Binners you can’t whine about self indulgent middle class lefties whilst at the same time delivering leaflets with a picture of a middle class lawyer from who hails from suburban London. Starmer is the very epitome of a left-leaning middle class liberal, but you seem to be a bit confused that he’s something else.
How do we do that then?
My suggestions would be stuff like.
Massively reduce government outsourcing contracts, so the money goes to well paying stable jobs rather than corporate shareholders.
Invest more in the NHS, pay Nurses, Doctors and Dentists better and as those roles become more attractive create a plan to actually train more people for those roles.
Nationalise transport, power and water.
Bring back council housing (or some form of public housing) that is actually about providing good economical homes for people and not just an excuse to subsidise corporations (see point one). Also look at other ways to deflate the housing cost bubble.
Fund the HMRC so that the can properly investigate the tax affairs of corporations and the wealthy, and a tightening of rules that allow the wealthy to avoid tax).
A big increase in the non taxable allowance, to lower tax burden that would be felt most by the poorest (I would also stop the claw back of the non taxable allowance for the wealthy as I don't think the actual benefit of the clawback is worth it).
There’s f-all you can do, because we don’t live in a true democracy where people get to vote for a range of alternatives. There is only one choice on offer, which is pretty much what we have now.
As above MSP, what’s the best way to achieve that? What route makes that more likely?
It can't be achieved in one election cycle, we need to start voting for parties that represent more progressive ideals. Then if enough do that hopefully Labour will start realising that they can't just keep taking us for granted, that we do actually have somewhere else to go, and instead of keeping moving to the right to capture tory voters, they return to their traditional principles.
At the moment I am not sure where my vote will go, but I think the only thing that labour could do to secure my vote, is to get behind some proper election reform, that is the one thing for me that I believe no matter what else they did or failed to do would benefit the country over the next 10, 20 years and beyond.
Isn't that what Corbyn offered, and got soundly rejected?
It can’t be achieved in one election cycle, we need to start voting for parties that represent more progressive ideals
By the same folk who complain when politicians won't think beyond five years? Ironic ..
Corbyn got rejected in very unusual times, in the media frenzy of "get brexit done" and unparalleled attacks on him by the media and the PLP. And lets face it several more right wing leaning labour leaders have also been rejected by the electorate.
It is becoming quite a repeated meme on here now, to once again follow the tory leadership and say "yeah but Corbyn", who will be the next copycat centrist to do a boris?
By the same folk who complain when politicians won’t think beyond five years? Ironic ..
Well it would be ironic if I hadn't been making the point that we need to think beyond a single election cycle for quite a while, maybe you are mistaking me for someone else.
As above MSP, what’s the best way to achieve that? What route makes that more likely?
Independence for Scotland! (runs away)
this could also be a trigger for real reform in England and Wales as some of the last vestiges of empire would be gone and it could wqell act as a trigger for reform - especially when those south of the border see what a real social democracy is like
At the moment I am not sure where my vote will go, but I think the only thing that labour could do to secure my vote, is to get behind some proper election reform
Which is, of course, why the right of labour hate the idea.
It makes them far more powerful although it does rely on their cry of "not voting for us is a vote for the tories" whilst conveniently skipping over how they are happy enough to have enabled brexit and tory victories when things werent going their way in labour.
Compromise for them is allowing the left to vote in a GE for Labour but not inside labour.
There are much higher priorities than electoral reform. With the NHS, schools and the welfare state collapsing and and the cost of living rising ever higher, voters will not forgive any party or politician who wastes their time on what looks like technocratic political self indulgence.
Electoral reform is absolutely critical to the wellbeing of the UK. We need a proper representative functioning democracy
Without it then the country is stuck with unrepresentative governments that only need win a few tens of thousands of votes in marginal seats and with it we could never have a hard right government like this one again
Its absolutly critical to have electoral reform and I am astonished you think it an indulgence Dazh.
A new range of Dog chews at the trade fair.
There is a rishi one.
voters will not forgive any party or politician who wastes their time on what looks like technocratic political self indulgence.
Its not self indulgence but thinking about how to fix the systematic problem rather than going short term or, as the centre right lot want, thinking longterm about personal power and influence.
There is no point Labour starting and it can only be starting to fix the tories mess until 2029 where the tories would be able to point out not everything has been fixed, get back in and then promptly flog it for pennies on the pound to their mates.
Oh goody. This thread goes the same way as all the others with the same little rays of sunshine and their annoyingly sunny upbeat optimism. Again...
The Tories will be praying that there is enough if you that stay home, or vote to make a point
I'll vote for the party that is most closely aligned with my political beliefs. If you believe that is "making a point" then crack on.
Oh goody. This thread goes the same way as all the others
Agreed. Nothing to do with your childish, repetitive insults of course.
Corbyn got rejected in very unusual times, in the media frenzy of “get brexit done” and unparalleled attacks on him by the media and the PLP. And lets face it several more right wing leaning labour leaders have also been rejected by the electorate.
It is becoming quite a repeated meme on here now, to once again follow the tory leadership and say “yeah but Corbyn”, who will be the next copycat centrist to do a boris?
Absolutely.
The idea that Corbyn didn't win in 2019 now means Labour must never offer popular and pragmatic left-wing non-market based solutions and simply be a bad cover version of the Tories is the most ridiculous and counter-intuitive political point I've ever seen made.
Oh goody. This thread goes the same way as all the others with the same little rays of sunshine and their annoyingly sunny upbeat optimism. Again…
The irony here.
If Labour/Starmer were actually offering something a lot better up than they are - then voters wouldn't be saying they're all the same.
It's a product of his making.
Bi9nners - If we had an actual democracy in the UK you would be right. But we do not. We have an ill functioning pseudo democracy that leads to bad governments and includes repre4sentatives of one and only one church along with a majority of unelected members and local government that has very little ability to do anything.
The irony here.
He's not dumb enough to miss the irony, so I can only assume he's doubling down, which at least puts him in tune with contemporary politics.
The idea that Corbyn didn’t win in 2019 now means Labour must never offer popular and pragmatic left-wing non-market based solutions and simply be a bad cover version of the Tories is the most ridiculous and counter-intuitive political point I’ve ever seen made.
No-one said never, just not now. If after 5 years, with hopefully a decent majority to allow Labour a run at implementing some policy adjustments nothing has changed then - I'll be at the barricades with you.
No-one said never, just not now. If after 5 years, with hopefully a decent majority to allow Labour a run at implementing some policy adjustments nothing has changed then – I’ll be at the barricades with you
😉Well we will know eventually.
But when do politicians ever get more left-wing when in power?
Beside that - there are a million solid arguments that could be made for a better society - NOW not in 5 years.
I do like the barricade framing though. "One day more."
Electoral reform is absolutely critical to the wellbeing of the UK.
You miss the point. I didn’t say it wasn’t necessary, just that voters don’t give a shit about it compared to stuff that directly affects them.
A load of politicians navel gazing about how best to organise themselves with everything else going on will only reinforce the general view that they are only interested in themselves.
A load of politicians navel gazing about how best to organise themselves
This is nonsense though.
Its not about politicians organising themselves but about allowing peoples votes to count.
Its the exact opposite of what you claim. The politicians are, generally, opposed to it out of self interest.
Whilst the hard right press, tories and the centre right labour all hate the idea and so push this type of line given the results in brexit and indeed the on/off support for more radical parties I would argue there is a lot of desire for it.
Its just the special interest groups, aka those politicians and their patrons, dont like the idea for good reason.
But when do politicians ever get more left-wing when in power?
To be fair Starmer got in charge of labour with a rightwing policy position and then swung radically to the left purging any of those on the right or even centre who dared disagree with him.
So why not trust him now?
A new range of Dog chews at the trade fair.
I've still got the Spitting Image dog chews of Thatcher, Kinnock and the two Davids
A load of politicians navel gazing about how best to organise themselves with everything else going on will only reinforce the general view that they are only interested in themselves.
apart from thats not how it would be done. Follow the lead for devolution.l Cross party commission to look into it and come up with recommendations. Set it up . leave it to do its work, recommendations put to the electorate in a referendum. 3 years to do. No waste of political capital or energy
Without proper electoral reform at all levels the UK will remain backward looking and in thrall to the hard right. Its completely essential that this is done. If Blair had had the bottle to do it then we would not have had the hard right Tory governments since and would still be in the Eu
Cross party commission to look into it and come up with recommendations.
So politicians spending significant time figuring out the best voting system rather than fixing the NHS? God luck with that.
Not at all - thats why you have the cross party commission. So it doesn't take away time and energy from the government. Look at how devo9lution was done. We have 1500 parliamentarians at westminster We can spare a few backbenchers / lords to do this.
Constitutional reform is essential to modernise britain.
If you asked most voters for a list of issues they’d like the government to address as a matter of urgency, not only would constitutional reform be 160 places below wheely bin collections and pot holes, it’d be trumped by Wagon Wheels now being smaller and whether Ant and Dec are on the telly too often
You seem awfully sure about that
So what Binners. Constitutional reform is essential if the UK is to prosper and get rid of the hard right governments that damage the country so much
The public want to bring back hanging and the poor house! Cut benefits etc etc
speaking of reform.....
telegraph (unsurprisingly) suggesting yougovs latest polling means by the Tories need to fend off reform & go hard on immigration etc
mad nads meanwhile knows whats best
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1746659711418507648?t=ArT5Zmsj7PA93OxRlF9Bwg&s=19
You seem awfully sure about that
Try knocking on doors with a local councillor or MP when they’re campaigning for an election and see how many voters bring up electoral reform
Wheely bins on the other hand…
#middleclassleftyselfindulgence
telegraph (unsurprisingly) suggesting yougovs latest polling means by the Tories need to fend off reform & go hard on immigration etc<br /><br />
The poll was commissioned by a group of Conservative donors called the Conservative Britain Alliance, Google has one single hit for them which leads to the telegraph page above, I guess that means it must be a new pop up grift from tufton st.
Still a lot of blue in that map for my liking, and I’d like to know who the flying *ity * still thinks the tories are worth voting for?, Probably to scare those aging Tory voters that are creeping towards deaths door to take one last big pull on that oxygen mask and get out and vote. Nice to see my region Dumfries & Galloway projected to turn snp, quite surprised to see it though as it’s been a Tory stalwart for ages due to farming and the age of folk who live here, no major employers and mostly relying on tourism. There’s also the large amount of folk who’ve retired here from down south or bought holiday homes in the area and at a guess I’d say the majority would vote Tory. I live in kirkcudbright and in my mothers street near the castle out of 25 houses there are 13 holiday homes.
edit weird formatting?
Nice to see my region Dumfries & Galloway projected to turn snp, quite surprised to see it though
Coule be as a result of the boundary changes.
I guess that means it must be a new pop up grift from tufton st.
I’d imagine that in front of an election a million and one domain names and Twitter accounts are being registered by the Tory/Tufton Street axis of bollocks for a misinformation campaign that will make Vote Leave look like a quaint, tiny backroom affair
Wheely bins on the other hand…
#middleclassleftyselfindulgence
Can you elaborate on that?
I am intrigued to learn why wheelie bins are a pressing problem on the minds of people in Labour controlled Bury.
No wonder you are struggling to engage with them over issues of national importance!
I doubt this particular list of voter priorities are exclusive to Bury
When you do the whole door-knocking thing and talking to people the main issues are exactly what you’d expect.. the NHS, education, the economy.
But wheely bins will come up 12,368 times before anyone mentions electoral reform
But wheely bins will come up 12,368 times
Why? I don't understand why wheelie bins is an important issue for the people of Bury.
Are they regularly not being emptied?
Other than that I can't think how it could be such an important issue for voters in Bury.
Edit: On the issue of electoral reform their appears to have been growing support, specifically from Labour voters, in support:
"The survey, by the National Centre for Social Research (NatCen), found this shift in attitudes is largely the result of an increase in recent years in backing among Labour supporters."
Maybe you should pop up and ask them?
You could do a survey
No need to be a smart arse about it. Just say what the issue with wheelie bins is, if it concerns voters more than electoral reform.
And since you have brought up the issue of surveys have a look at my edit of my last post.
"The survey, by the National Centre for Social Research (NatCen), found this shift in attitudes is largely the result of an increase in recent years in backing among Labour supporters."
Edit:
The newest question time was kind of interesting, but also kind of depressing... the audience was entirely 'floating voters'.
The main themes were,
1) NHS/social care is knackered
2) Stop getting involved in other countries wars
3) Electoral reform
4) Why is everything so expensive?
It’s ironic that prospective voters are fixated on wheelie bins when communal street bins as sunk into thousands of roads in continental Europe provide an obviously better solution. Most of Britain’s public problems are either directly caused by or hugely exacerbated by our chronic democratic deficit, including inequality of access to health, education, and wealth. None of those things are going to improve much long-term without electoral reform.
It’s ironic that prospective voters are fixated on wheelie bins when communal street bins as sunk into thousands of roads in continental Europe provide an obviously better solution. Most of Britain’s public problems are either directly caused by or hugely exacerbated by our chronic democratic deficit, including inequality of access to health, education, and wealth. None of those things are going to improve much long-term without electoral reform.
For sure... without huge reform, we are just chelping away at the edges of the problems, attack the cause, not the symptom.
But the average voter doesn't give a stuff about Ukraine or Gaza, they are just angy because thier shopping is more expensive and the price of petrol/gas has gone up. again.